What your choice speakers with spikes or speakers with a vibration isolation device?
I am in the camp of vibration isolation. I think it makes sense that the less energy transfer into the floor goes into the air. I found these really cool magnetic isolation feet that I’ve never seen before. They are very affordable, the guys are from England. Here’s a link, The company is called solid air audio.https://solidairaudio.com
I am in the camp of vibration isolation. I think it makes sense that the less energy transfer into the floor goes into the air. I found these really cool magnetic isolation feet that I’ve never seen before.
So these really cool magnetic isolation feet that you've never seen before, I imagine they float the speakers above the floor in gloriously perfect isolation. Wonderful.
So then when the speaker cone moves one way, the speaker cabinet moves the other way. Because, Newton. That force has to push against something after all, even if its just the air, and if its gonna move the air one way the air is gonna push back and the speaker is gonna move the other way.
Which the speaker is now free to do, floating on magnets and all. Free to move.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems we want the air to move, and not the speaker?
Love the Townshend Seismic Podiums. Replaced previously used spikes on my Spendor D9s and improved the sound in my system. Not inexpensive but to me they were worth the investment.
I really fell in love with the Townshend seismic podiums that the reader after me commented on. Those are the ones I really wanted but they’re very very expensive like 3K on speaker. So I had a machinist friend of mine make me a set that work with springs like the Townshend model. They work great the biggest difference I noticed was it seem to have cleaned up the base at large volumes. I understand what you’re saying about the speaker going one way and the box go on the other. For some reason it works just fine. I have a set of Tekton 4-10 subs that way 95 pounds each. I’ve got them standing vertically and at large volumes you don’t see the speaker move at all it just pops out music. I don’t think it’s gonna be any different when I switch them over to this magnetic foot. I am fascinated that it floats there with just a steel pen to keep the magnets in line. Do you have the thing that was cool was they were only $140 per speaker. They have smaller ones for individual components, do you see a problem with floating a CD player in the air?
In my experience, the choice between coupling/spike and decoupling/isolation will depend on the type of floor the speakers are sitting on. If the floor is inherently isolated such as concrete slab, tile on concrete, etc., the spikes work well. Similarly, spikes seem to work well on carpeted floors as well. On suspending wood floors, decoupling is a much better choice minimizing the potential vibrations/resonances from the floor coupling with the speakers muddying up the response, particularly at the lower frequencies.
Vibration coupling, isolation or absorption (turn motion into heat) are different approaches to tuning, which means that, to the extent they change the sound, such changes can be positive or negative. That means you have to experiment to see which result you prefer.
As kalali describes above, coupling devices like spikes often are not the preferred approach on a suspended wooden floor because the transfer of energy to the floor turns the floor into a sounding board. I have carpet over a suspended wood floor and I use a Symposium Svelte Shelf under my speaker (the entire bottom of the speaker sits in contact with the shelf, the inner foam core of the shelf turns the vibrations into heat as the vibrating molecules in the core rub against each other). The Townsend devices work on the same principle. This tightens up the sound and makes the bass less boomy; whether this is good or bad is a matter of system tuning and taste.
Quick interrupt, speaker isolation spring type devices are designed to be very stiff in the lateral plane. You know, so the speakers won’t move laterally whilst being isolated. Hel-loo! 🤗 Lateral stability of these designs also makes the system more, uh, stable against accidental perturbations. 😐
I am also on a wood floor like Larry above is. The effect I had was the same that he found, it made the base less Bhoomi and at higher volumes the isolation removed A distortion the fact that I was getting. Probably because the base was going through the subfloor and reverberating back up into the speaker enclosure. The towns in video explains this quite well.Here’s a link to all of his products.https://youtu.be/7ew4dRUEm-k
I always decouple, no matter the floor..No spikes ever...I dampen the enclosure, as much I can. If you can get the KNOCH factor to green concrete, you've done a good job...
I go by the pound..about 60 lb a foot for monitors, bass lowriders or bass columns.
I'd hang the darn things if I could figure a way without turning the room into looking like the Big Top at Barnum and Bailey's..
@ 60 lb a foot, that's over a ton hanging from the rafters, with just 4, columns. There are 8 enclosures in there.
Hanging is out, spikes are out.
Adjustable spring mounts and silicone. A spring suspension and different viscous ratings for the rubber, from staying liquid (like an accumulator, or a shock), to a VERY hard dry material. Hospital generators, and power plants in floating structures use them.. Where I got the idea from 40 years ago. ZERO harmonics, as long as the dampeners would stay charged, (no leaks from the bladders) with nitrogen
Geoffcait, I don’t have enough scientific chops to say either way. I would think that if the bungee cords still had some spring affect in them then it would be the same or better than a spring loaded solution on the floor. I have been fascinated with the line array speakers that you see at commercial venues. They make sense there I wonder if that idea will creep in to the home audio market. I guess somebody is going to have to figure out how to make it lookLast commercial and more homey
‘’Tekton 4-10 subs (2) Onboard amps ‘Tekton Moab Speakers Mcintosh/caerver 275 bi amped macintosh, mx122 pre, mb50 DAC,mpc1500 power, mac 1706 amp for surrounded speakers , Mac mvp 871 cd dvd, pine tree cabling thru-out
carpet over 3/4’ plywood on wood joist room size 18 x 24. 8 ceiling
Interesting cables (never heard of them, but just went through their site).
Your listening room is approx. the same dimensions as mine (though probably better as it's a rectangle instead of the odd horseshoe I have).
Assume that bass it full/deep as it has been in my room with previous fuller range speakers (than my current tiny Tots:-).
My first thought would be to isolate the subs from the sprung floor, while in turn simply spiking the speakers to the same (Tekton supplies spikes I gather).
Forget the name of the fave sub isolation platforms (not expensive as I recall) and perhaps another member can fill in the blank.
Think the manufacturer may also offer isolation stands for small desktop monitors.
I had confused it with another platform manufacturer who makes stands that look like square/rectangular scissor/baby gates.
Anyway, the SubDude is reviewed to be a good choice for suspended wood floors.
When I had wood floors in the 70's/80's I used carpet padding and horse hair pads under Rogers AB1's, but they probably only went down to 40 Hz (if that).
I have Vandersteen 5A's on spikes as factory recommends. I tried Herbes gizmos ....absolutely ruined the sound. Each system is different and everyone should try them all to know for sure.
I've no doubt that's what you experienced, but I have to say in my experience I have yet to encounter any loudspeaker that didn't sound better with some form of isolation underneath. Even my portable Sony radio sounds a tad better when placed upon a compliant surface.
It's certainly possible that many loudspeakers were designed to be placed on spikes, and that's where they will measure and sound best. I just haven't encountered one like that yet, but that is far from conclusive.
It would be good to have designer feedback here, as the only thing I've read was by Alan Shaw from Harbeth who once said he was happy to test his top of the range M40s placed on top of some telephone directories.
However these are only just my impressions, and I prefer an organic midrange sound to one that might be deemed to have a tight precise bass output. This should be easy enough to test, at least with my radio, once I can get someone willing to assist me in a blindfold experiment without too much derision.
Anyway the evidence, what there is, seems to come in the form of baffle accelerometer readings which heavily favour any compliant feet over any spikes.
However panel resonance is a tricky business as this article tries to demonstrate.
In any case the old argument about Newton's first law of motion is not very helpful here. The forces generated by the movement of the low mass cone in comparison to the large mass of the cabinet are virtually insignificant.
For the driver motion to actually move the speaker, the cabinet would need to be placed on a very low friction surface and the volume output would have to be comparitvely huge, with huge panel resonances to match.
Anyway the evidence, what there is, seems to come in the form of baffle accelerometer readings which heavily favour any compliant feet over any spikes.
Your speaking of spectral decay rates within the enclosure. A good enclosure there is really no need for that spec.
A lot of speaker repair people chime in with, decay rates, when it is such a simple fix.. Green concrete. If the enclosure sounds like green concrete it is good. Decay rates are important, for VERY old amps with no dampening ability, and poorly designed enclosures.
Undampened.. You’ll keep hearing it until tomorrow.
Same with phase shift, you or I are not going to notice the 20 hz PS, you can’t. It’s sub, you’ll feel it, or not depending. I like correction before it hits the speaker cable, not after.
A servo amp with a feed back correction circuit, is probably the fastest, to STOP, not correct the overshoot of the cone, and decay rate are once again, not an issue.. It’s an old spec. that in real world NEW SPEAKER application doesn’t matter.. Sound walls, yes, speakers NO.
Second, a speaker, mounted to the side of a taller, narrow baffle, that is deep, can rock side to side. I’ve seen it. It’s actually an upgrade on certain speakers I use. Remove the side firing woofer, and plug the space. They use to replace the woofer with a passive radiator, it still rocked the cabinet, ever so slightly.
Isolate the cabinet, decrease the vibration, and decrease the distortion, everywhere...
Think air ride, and a tractor trailer rig.. Think 100 foot jump off a building, into an air bag. and Walk away.. Green concrete and air, everything in between is an issue...
They have smaller ones for individual components, do you see a problem with floating a CD player in the air?
The magnetic field? How will that influence things... I'm always a little careful, with magnets.. Hard drives, eproms, tape decks, Reel to Reels The steel plate in my head, my hip, my knee, my leg, my jaw, and the two screws lose in my head..
The mag-lev feet are amazing! I removed the spring elevated feet that my friend made for me and replace them with the mag live feet. The range of base that these subs will take is even better than when I use the spring loaded feet. I was able to add more bass and deeper base then I expected. I put on some Earth wind and fire, turned up the volume and see what they would take. I added approximately 25% more volume into the sub and probably three more decibels from the lower range equalizer that comes built into the Macintosh MX122. It was near possible to get them to distort. I now have to figure out how I’m going to re-set my subs and higher end frequencies to get everything to rebalance. It’s pretty impressive what the coupling the speaker from the floor does to the speaker. It’s like it’s got a breath of fresh air and it breeds deeper. I’ll stop now I always hate it when guys go into goofy metaphors for how things sound. I highly recommend spending a couple hundred dollars and trying your speakers or subs D coupled,Worth every penny!
It depends. I hear speakers sounding their best when they are rigidly mounted and supported. I would only consider isolating the speakers from the floor if that floor were audibly excited by the speaker cabinet vibrational energy. My current setup is large stand mounted monitors decoupled from a high mass rigid stand that is spiked to a concrete floor through carpet. Bass is deep and ell defined, midrange is super clear and transparent, the floor does not audibly respond to the cabinet's vibration energy. If i had a wooden suspended floor I might consider isolating the stands from the floor- it might provide the best possible sound but would be a compromise compared to a more solidly mounted system on a solid floor.
If i had a wooden suspended floor I might consider isolating the stands from the floor- it might provide the best possible sound but would be a compromise compared to a more solidly mounted system on a solid floor.
The best all around for a room is solid, no doubt. I have a few way I can go, including outside in the summer months. Raised floors are probably the hardest to control. I've found large soft decoupling silicone isolators work very well too. I'm just a decouple guy... From my primary LP playing days, and still do, just a lot of streaming, servers, CD, a little Reel to Reel. There is no need for AS much vibration control.. as before.
For me it's bass distortion more than vibration control, NOW..
@raysmtb1, looks like you went with Solidair Audio, the Ukishima Aluminium isolation feet, six of the 10 kg. feet for the 4-10 sub and six of the 15 kg. feet for the Moab? I see you passed on the their suspension bridges which would have added significant cost. I suspect you used the remaining hardware from the spring elevated feet you had there before. The reason I am asking is the Moabs are on my shortlist of speakers.
Wife and I are going back and forth on setting up a dedicated home theater/hi-fi in one of the spare bedrooms upstairs (carpeted) vs. the living room (laminate wood on concrete slab). If I get the Moabs, and end up with alot of vibration, regardless of which room, I would want to purchase them asap. So conservatively, I believe I should include them in my budget.
’If i had a wooden suspended floor I might consider isolating the stands from the floor- it might provide the best possible sound but would be a compromise compared to a more solidly mounted system on a solid floor.
The best all around for a room is solid, no doubt. I have a few way I can go, including outside in the summer months. Raised floors are probably the hardest to control. I’ve found large soft decoupling silicone isolators work very well too. I’m just a decouple guy... From my primary LP playing days, and still do, just a lot of streaming, servers, CD, a little Reel to Reel. There is no need for AS much vibration control.. as before.
For me it’s bass distortion more than vibration control, NOW.’
My experiences too.
I think decoupling/isolation is more critical, if like me, you have suspended flooring and close proximity to heavy traffic etc.
@raysmbth1,
’I’ll stop now I always hate it when guys go into goofy metaphors for how things sound.’
Yeah, me too, especially when experienced reviewers do it - they should know better. No one likes over the top stuff but I’ve got to ask, do you still feel the same about the Mag-Lev feet under your subs?
that’s amazing you figured out exactly what I did. I reuse the spring one from the subwoofer and put them on the Moab. Both systems work great. The mag Lauv works excellent but is more expensive Van the spring version. I think they both sound exactly the same. If I had my choice I would stick with the spring version. It’s less expensive and sounds identical to the maglev. Both systems use a inexpensive speaker out rigger kit I found on Amazon. The springs are more work because you have to Epoxy the springs into the aluminum feet or else it tends to fall apart while you’re assembling the feet and turning the speakers back over. If you have any more questions just ask, you’re welcome to send me a personal message
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