What's my ideal music server? Read and recommend please

I used MacBook Pro with JRiver for years with no hiccups. Am curious what you mean by "losing the proper MIDI setting", MIDI shouldn't enter into it unless you are trying to configure it to play .midi extension files. But I don't know all the ins and outs of JRiver so am willing to become better informed.

That being said, I solved my storage issue by getting a 1TB SATA SSD and a SATA to USB cable and simply plugging that in to the MacBook. 2TB Samsung SSDs are under $200 at this point. 

This allowed me to more easily manage files because it was portable, I didn't have to setup a full NAS or deal with home network challenges. 

If you are generally happy with the MacBook / JRiver combo, I say keep it. I moved on because I dropped my MacBook and wasn't interested in replacing it. After considering most of the down market dedicated server options, I decided to just go with an old phone that had a memory card slot and use JRiver Mobile, via USB to my DAC. 

Good luck.

Had to be fast to catch that one.

There are a good number of threads attempting to answer this question and you might find it beneficial to look through this forum toward that end.  

The Aurender N100H is a very good unit - in terms of quality, it’s the middle range of the three servers I have.  And, all are better than a MacBook both in sound quality and in utility. 

USB is a fine interface if your DAC has it implemented well.  If so, there’s no reason to shy away or look for an SPDIF output. My best server has both outputs and USB is the better of the two.  But, it’s really DAC dependent. 

There’s a used NAD M50.2 here on Audiogon.  The BluOS system is also quite good. Though many would argue that Aurender’s conductor is better, BluOS is very good if you use Ethernet instead of wireless.  The M50.2 has a disk drive so you can rip to the internal hard drive, or use it as a player. And used, it’s a quite a bit less than an N100H new.  If I were starting again, I look seriously at it.  

Of course there are others, again - worth browsing this forum. 

Thanks! I’ve looked at other threads- looking for the most current thoughts on this topic 

the Aurender has been recommended to me a number of times 

zavato 

... Aurender has been recommended to me a number of times

My Aurender N100H had a fit with even a momentary loss of AC power and software updates were rocky. Support was indifferent, and I'm being kind. I dumped mine after less than a year. Aurender has cultivated quite a mystique, most of which I find undeserved. YMMV.

@cleeds sorry to hear of your experience.  My own experience has been quite good. I found the system more stable than the other servers I own and updates effortless. I’m at a loss to explain the difference but it should be noted by the OP.

mgrif104

@cleeds sorry to hear of your experience. My own experience has been quite good ...

Oh yes, many people are very pleased with Aurender. They seem to enjoy an excellent reputation - that’s one reason I bought one.

To be fair, I am extra-sensitive to tech support responses that clearly show they didn’t bother to read my original note. The indifferent and sometime pedantic support was as much a reason for dumping Aurender as the streamer itself. I bought a Bryston that I use with Rigelian and have been quite happy since.

My experience with the N100C has been really good. I used the Coax out because I had a good Coax cable and it sounded terrific in my system.

Currently, I have the N10 and absolutely love it, but it was not as much of an upgrade as some would think, going from N100C to the N10. I would say the SQ upgrade was subtle and it took me a while to identify it via A/B.

Point is IMHO, the N100C was a really good unit and hard to beat, even with a unit costing more than double the price.

Good luck and best regards

My experience with Aurender N100H and their tech support has been excellent. @cleeds experience is irrelevant to me no matter how many times he repeats it. 

rockrider

@cleeds experience is irrelevant to me no matter how many times he repeats it.

That’s as it should be! Similarly, your experience is irrelevant to me. However, my information may have relevance to someone still making a decision. That’s the point.

I went from a PC based set up to an Aurender N10 and the N10 blew it away in both ease of use, lack of needing to be a network admin to get things going, and a definite sound improvement.  I would KEEP AWAY from USB at ANY and ALL costs as the USB interface truly sucks from a sound perspective.  USB is effected by almost every computer process which causes jitter and other digital remnants that you don't want going through your dac.  

I have 10TB of music sitting inside a Synology NAS but personally, the best/ideal music server is TIDAL

@cerrot 

The sound quality of USB is highly system dependent. There are plenty of high quality DACs for which the manufacturer is recommending USB as the preferred connection. Certainly, If I were using a traditional computer as a source, I would agree with you and convert from USB to S/PDIF to the DAC to reduce noise.  However, with a high quality server/streamer such as the N10 you have,  it will really be dependent on your DAC.  In my own applications, I’ve found USB (with a decent cable - it makes a difference) to be better than S/PDIF - even when the latter was an expensive 75 ohm digital cable in the preferred 1.5M length.   Fortunately our the various servers many of us have are able to output in most any flavor so that the user can try for themselves. 

I have enjoyed using a Roon Nucleus Plus server for a while now, I've used Roon for several years (at first on a Dell laptop/PS Audio DirectStream DAC), and the Roon server sounds significantly better.

For my purchased music I purchased a pair of Western Digital 4 TB USB external hard drives (a primary & a backup), back it up to the Google cloud and Carbonite.  I use iTunes to record as AIFF files, not the best interface (I must go into each recording and correct/add metadata fields and sometimes the album art).

I have a subscription to Qobuz and most of the time stream, especially when a master is available that is newer than the one I've recorded.

I have friends who are very happy with their Aurender servers, another great option!

@mgrif104 That is the problem - USB is system dependent on the computer.  That's the power supply, USB bridge, drivers, operating system and a whole other bunch of stuff. I have been playing with computer audio for 20 years or so.  USB is effected by many things but predominately the power supply and the Operating System (window uses IRQ settings which is what tells the keyboard to work when you use that ad the mouse when you grab that).  All sounds simple but creates havoc on the usb bus.  I had gone so far as to replacing computer power supplies with outboard power supplies with 5,000 microfarad capacitors it was still not up to sounding acceptable to my ears.  I added an ES @ Juliet sound card with spdif out and the sound was excellent - no comparison.  I also used MAC G5 and USB still sounded (to my ears) like crap.  USB was created for peripherials, not to feed multi thousand dollar dacs. You can hook up a mouse and keyboard, printer and even a scanner but please don't hook up a good dac.

@cerrot 
I guess I’m a bit slow.  I completely agree you shouldn’t use USB coming out of a computer.  But, if you have an N10 to serve your DAC, USB is more than fine depending on the DAC. I was only suggesting that generalizing USB as bad may not be complete advice for some users.

@cerrot
I have experienced the same as you describe, even coming out of the N10, my COAX sounds better to me than USB.

However, I do know a couple of serious people who use USB and find it superior. I believe much of preference has to do with which clock is used for the interface (DAC' clock or Streamer's clock).
Best Regards

In my own application with my servers (different systems), USB is better sounding than S/PDIF, or AES EBU (same as S/PDIF).  So, obviously YMMV.  

Before I got the QX-5/20 to use with Ethernet, I used USB from iMac to Ayre DX-5 DSD for Roon, with balanced analog to Ayre KX-5/20 preamp. That combination sounded very good. Like so many dictums, "you shouldn’t use USB combining out of a commuter" requires caveats.

I went with the top of the line from Sonore and Small Green Computer.   The Sonore Signature Rendu SE optical is the streamer and it runs ROON which is fabulous.  I avoided Aurender because it does not.  SGC built me a server with 10 TB of  solid state memory.  Andrew at SGC was happy to work with me to custom configure my server.  It has an i7 processor, and a built in Teac drive to rip CD's.   Nothing rips SACD but there are services that will do that.  (or so I've heard...)  This rig was FAR Superior to my MacBook pro!  Also the support from Sonore and SGC has been great.  The software running then is very intuitive.  USB is the preferred output on many servers and DAC's.   Lower cost options are available like the UltraRendu or Optical Rendu and less advanced servers from SGC.

Innuous and Antipodes also make great products, as does Lumin, especially the X1.

Innuos for ease of use and sound quality. I went from a tuned Mac Mini to an Innuos Zenith Mk3 and could only wonder why I waited so long. 

I changed from using the Ethernet input on an Ayre QX5/20 to USB from an in rack Wolf Audio Alpha SX3.  This was a definite upgrade in sound quality. I would recommend the Alpha or their new slightly smaller Luna-R server.

While I'm sure this will disappoint those who have chosen to support them (I once did), I think the Aurender fan base is becoming more and more irrelevant. I'm not saying the products are bad or don't perform well, but there are plenty of other offerings with less dubious practices under the hood at a fraction of the price, with performance that meet or exceeds the Aurender, and with a far more open approach to consumer choice (i.e. control point options, integration with home automation systems, multi-room features, etc.). There are plenty of Hifi brands offering similar products which easily perform just as well, and many have found more DIY solutions (Sonore or Raspberry Pi for example) are also a better route (though albeit more time invested in putting all the necessary pieces together). 

I know the type of people who are inclined to purchase an Aurender. I think the people, and the dealers who have the type of equipment Aurender is targeting, particularly the top end products, would be better served to explore other options. While they claim to have world class support, and make every effort to present an entirely positive image to the press, my experience was far from pleasant and I would gladly do anything to help persuade an existing or potential Aurender customer to consider spending their money on something else.

Their business practices are also highly suspect. You may be able to find information concerning a lawsuit involving their breach of contract with their original US based distributor a number of years ago... wait, here it is: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2013cv01142/408054/17/

While that case was dismissed I can tell you it's merely the tip of the iceberg for the type of shenanigans their CEO tries to pull off. He thinks of himself as the Elon Musk of Korea...

Ok- you’re not a fan of Aurender then you say you could do better for the money.

Please suggest alternative servers

I am using the Innuous Zen Mini powered by a Zen LPS connected via Wireworld Ultraviolet 8 USB to a Bel Canto 2.7 DAC. Just regular Cat 6 in wall to the modem and Cat 8 to the Zen.  Sounds great to me. Ripped my CDs to the 4tb Zen and hooked up Roon. Won't go back to my Adcom system.  While very good, that system doesn't come close in SQ to the higher end digital components assembled during my  5 month foray into this world.

Ok- you’re not a fan of Aurender then you say you could do better for the money.

Please suggest alternative servers

What is your DAC?

The Innuous Zen recommended above by tump350 is a great alternative for a turn-key solution, as are the Antipodes products. There are also Melco, and some other more esoteric products (Sound Galleries comes to mind).

I think there is a lot of confusion when it comes to computer based audio. My suggestion is to examine the meaning of the word "server", and with respect to music there is actually no inherent difference between "servers", as a "server" simply "serves" another computing device with an index and catalog of files. In a "pure" sense a server simply acts as a storage location for the files.

A server can also host a client, which is a software program requesting file information from the server. Or, the client can be a completely separate device thousands of miles away requesting files from the server. It doesn't really matter.

Where things get complicated, and where the differences really are within digital audio (or video for that matter) is the process between the "client" (the application requesting the files) and the "server" (the application providing the files). Ideally the "server" software interfacing the files to the "client" (receiving device) is transparent, or in other words does no modification to the file before it is transferred to the client. Some servers "transcode" or modify the file data before being sent out.

An Aurender "music server" is actually both a "server", and a "client". The files reside on an internal hard disk and are indexed by an FTP-based server software running on Linux (Ubuntu 14 or something along those lines, a few years ago). When playback is requested by the "client" (music player daemon for Linux), the files on the hard disk are transferred internally using an internal SATA bus to an SSD where they are cached for playback. The Aurender app is an FTP-based control point software which allows you to select which files the Aurender queues from the HDD ("server") to transfer to the SSD. The "client" is also known as the "player" software (in Aurender's case, Linux OS and music player daemon). 

The "client" or "player" is actually the real determining factor here, as it is what translates the file (Aurender cleverly uses the term "render", which is quite accurate) into usable audio playback information to be delivered downstream to possible additional digital signal processing, and ultimately to a digital-to-analog convertor.

Essentially you are already doing the same thing with JRiver using a Mac, which I suppose you didn't need me to explain. There are some nuances to what Aurender is doing, but try a dual-boot to Ubuntu on your Mac with MPD (and no other programs running) with the same files. It's a bit more work, but money saved...

In a sense Aurender is not much different than a typical computer running Linux because they use standard (non-bespoke) bus interfaces and PC componentry which is nothing particularly special. The parts Aurender uses as storage, RAM, and CPU are all off-the-shelf (and quite outdated in some cases); the exception is that they do have a specialty supplier for their own mainboards, which is commendable.

Those of us who have spent a lot of time with digital music playback will be able to elucidate why a better approach is, and has been, to focus on the "client" and not the "server".

Aurender themselves are very aware of this as I would guess a majority of their users have moved to Tidal or Qobuz streaming, meaning the "server" is what Tidal and Qobuz are providing, and their "client" (player) software is still retrieving files in a cache on the SSD. The extra dollars spent on storage are a waste at this juncture. 

What audio and music enthusiasts need to realize is that audio companies packaging computer parts one can purchase from NewEgg or Amazon into their products should consider what they are offering and claiming before doing so. Better architecture already exists, and instead of learning and adapting, companies like Aurender are remaining steadfast in their flawed ideas about what they believe are flawed ideas. (Their refusal to adapt Roon in any meaningful way is evidence of this, and I am not a user nor a fan of Roon in particular). Unfortunately as network topology and implementation improve, the problems Aurender was trying to solve with their customer base will end up backfiring as now a user is stuck with a brick that sounds worse when disks are spinning (this is noticeably audible and demonstrable), thus rendering (no pun intended, surely) the product more or less useless if used in a true TCP/IP "server" manner (UPnP, DLNA, or other Peer-to-peer file transfer). Further the product was never designed to be used in a NAS-like fashion meaning the ultimate reliability is unproven as what I would actually call a "server" (i.e. always on, reliable, immediate).

Why not continue to use your Mac with an external hard disk or USB/thunderbolt storage (sky is the limit there), park it on your network (in other words keep it as a server), install a UPnP software (sounds like you already have it with JRiver), and use a UPnP renderer to deliver digital to your DAC?

Purported sound quality differences between files stored on any number of commodity NAS products or PC/Mac computers while using a true TCP/IP network-based delivery system are negligible, assuming the network, server and client software, and associated components are configured properly.

The main issue with USB is noise. The main issue with SPDIF is clock synchronization. Audio over IP is the real future, just look at the list of manufacturers implementing the Dante protocol into their product.

https://www.audinate.com/meet-dante/dante-manufacturers-list

Aurender has already apparently implemented Ravenna (similar to Dante) which makes their product seemingly even more obsolete - why buy a box with a bunch of useless storage on board if that storage can be remotely located with absolutely no "downtime" due to "spinning disk noise"? 

Besides Dante and Audio over IP, look into Linn, Naim, Sim Audio Moon, Sonore Rendu, Auralic, Lumin, Bryston, DIY Raspberry Pi, BluSound based offerings, and other similar UPnP/ethernet based products. Many of them have SPDIF outputs for external DACs. Most of the built-in DACs on the products which offer them outperform the standalone DACs many people are using anyway (mainly due to elimination of the two problems mentioned above with USB and/or SPDIF). 

I would probably have a more specific recommendation were I to know which DAC and the rest of the system, and network and such as well. 

Anyway feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further, or I can continue here.

Ironlung- thanks for your considered response. I own a Bricasti M1; my entire system is on my profile. 

Ironlung- thanks for your considered response. I own a Bricasti M1; my entire system is on my profile. 

Cool, what a nice piece. I've only heard the Bricasti stuff here and there, but it's quite amazing and I think you should certainly consider a better delivery system. 

I didn't see a BNC connection on that particular piece. If you're using SPDIF i'd suggest a Linn or Naim streamer (used or new, with SPDIF out). Some of the early Uniti products have a BNC connection; and the Majik and Akurate Linn products have SPDIF outputs. 

Forewarning - I don't like the Naim app much, but it works. Linn's apps are a bit better. BluSound options from Sim Audio and NAD are also quite nice and I think just as relevant to your application. Also look at the Bryston BDP-3. 

USB is a little trickier and is only necessary if you want to play files beyond 24/192kHz PCM or DSD. In that case I might suggest looking into a custom/DIY solution or one of the higher end alternatives already mentioned (Innuous in particular).

I just think there are many other alternatives if you take a bit of time to plan things out which will provide you with more musical enjoyment and additional flexibility (i.e. Roon, other control point options, etc.). I wanted Aurender to succeed, at one point, but I think they are getting in their own way now.

My M1 has a BNC connection- 

I seem to have a lot of options. I like both Sim and Bryston and I have a friend who sells both Naim and Linn. I suppose a streamer with an NAS is the functional equivalent of a server such as the Innous 

Have you looked into what the capabilities of the M1's MDx processor module upgrade are?

https://bricasti.com/en/consumer/mdx.php

Looking into the owner's manuals, you can use the Bricasti as a network DAC for a UPnP/DLNA server. 

My guess is that if you discussed this with the folks at Bricasti, I would not be surprised if they consider this the best sound quality option for the M1 DAC, and you can then explore a good NAS option. If you wanted to get "audiophile", the Innuos products would probably work best.

The Innuous products are functionally an integrated NAS without a bunch of storage options on board. There are many Linn and Naim users who host their UPnP server on an Innuos or other products like it (Melco). I would not be surprised to find other Bricasti owners to be using the MDx with an Innous or other NAS using UPnP/DLNA and getting exceptional results.

On this note, this is also to me a huge blind spot on the part of Aurender. There is absolutely no technical reason Aurender could not include a feature to install a DLNA/UPnP media server on any generation of music server they have produced. It's a Linux machine running Ubuntu after all. Why not give a customer the flexibility to use the product in a different way if they decide to move/upgrade from a USB-based DAC to a network-based DAC? It's plainly obvious by now to anyone paying attention that network based delivery, whether it's UPnP/DLNA, Ravenna, Dante, Roon, or whatever comes down the pike, is how DAC manufacturers (including Bricasti) are improving their products and bringing them to the future. An Aurender customer owning an M1 DAC wishing to experience the MDx upgrade will be left sitting on a brick which can't deliver files over a network connection in any meaningful way. Sure, the Aurender software is nice, but there are plenty of easy to use media software apps. Their attitude is actually quite tone deaf, as is shown by their introduction of products which are essentially an Aurender-only, glorified NAS drive with CD ripping (the ACS10 and ACS100). Cornering these products to solely the Aurender ecosystem is a foolish approach, when they have plenty of capability to run a Roon Core or UPnP/DLNA server and give clients much more flexibility.

The MDX board is superb. It’s been fitted in my M1 since July 

I wonder if this is doable and a viable solution- continue to use my MacBook Pro and use a Bricasti M5 renderer between my laptop and the dac 

So just how pricey are these Bricasti products? (M5 in particular) There literally isn’t a dealer within 1,000 miles of me and their website doesn’t even show an MSRP on any of their products. As a career marketing manager, I have a very negative initial impression of any company who does much of their business exclusively on the net, but intentionally does not post an MSRP.

I have a bricasti dealer a reasonable distance from my home. List price is easy enough to find on the internet any by and large companies that don’t direct market don’t show prices on the internet. One of the advantages of living just a bit north of NYC- just about anything is available within an hour or 2 drive at most. Heck, I can get to McIntosh Labs in 3 hrs. 

Zavato
Just get rid of your mac book pro.  When I went from my MacBook to the Sonore Signature Rendu SE the improvement was HUGE.  This unit acts as the renderer or client.  It also handles the streaming.  My Small Green Computer is where my music collection of 7TB lives.  It has an one board drive for ripping CD's.   It is similar to a Roon Nuc but has better components and was made to my specifications with a 10 TB Solid state hard drive.  The server and the renderer run proprietary "Sonic Orbiter" software which integrates the two units flawlessly.      For playing music the combo runs Roon which is the best platform.   My experience with setting up this system was truly plug and play.  Support from SGC and Sonore has been very good.  
This digital front end cost about $8K.  I run it thru a PS Audio direct stream DAC.  This fairly "humble" front end  is able to make my Nagra HD electronics and Wilson XLF speakers truly sing.
I can state the following with certainty:
1.  The best server is the Taiko Audio, bar none.  ($30,000)
2.  Aurender W20SE is probably 2nd in sound quality, but doesn't do ROON  and I LOVE ROON.  A friend loves his N10.
3. Innuous Statement, Antipodes EX/CX combo, Wolf Audio's higher end are all  excellent choices.
4.  In the end I chose the SGC Server as Andrew was willing to put in 10TB SSD for a reasonable price as I have a large music library,  and  the Sonore Signature Rendu SE because of excellent reviews.  (I spoke with one of the reviewers and he purchased the Sonore)
5.  Any of these options will be an obvious improvement in SQ, reliability and ease of use over the MacBook, especially if you get ROON

BTW you have a great DAC.  Almost bought one, but just purchased a Rossini instead.