What's a really great Streamer/DAC box for just streaming Tidal?

Is Lumin going to update the D2 soon? I know the T2 was updated over the last few months. The D2, I believe has been around a while (maybe i'm wrong)

@dtximages 
I have limited experience with streamers (PC, Mac, chromecast and now Bluesound Node 2. I can confirm the Node 2 using coax out sounds the best and significantly better than the Chromecast.    

classdstreamer23 posts10-04-2019 4:15pm@dtx I would like to push back as to how much streamers matter. Would you be willing to compare your Node against a Chromecast? And would you be willing willing to try to place a reclocker between your streamer and DAC, like the iFi SPDIF reclocker?

Yes I would totally be willing to try all that and see if I can hear a difference.  I have both the Node and Chromecast.  I'll have to play around to get everything just right.  

Also, im not familiar with a reclocker, what it does, why i need it etc.  If you're in the Dallas area, come on by and help me out!

I have a Vault 2i and love it....  its ethernet only but works perfectly with a wireless bridge that has LAN jacks.   Dont believe Dave and Troy , they are pure audio snobs and will tell you anything to take your $$$.   

Check out the Cary Audio DMS-600. It is an incredible piece that does Bluetooth, WiFi, USB and Ethernet. The sound is incredible and I think you will love it.

As the owner of a Cambridge CXN (not v2), I can attest that it sounds good and the software is crap. You can’t even flag a track or album as a favorite from it. It does support Tidal, (but does not decode MQA) but not Quboz or the upcoming Amazon service. That is why I am thinking of going with Roon and a separate DAC. The CXN does expose a ton of internet radio stations though (some with near cd quality), which can be fun for exploring new music.

I am in agreement with dtximages, except that it does matter, for the sake of having options, which formats it supports. Any streamer that isn’t garbage will deliver all of the bits from the source in the same order as the source.
I am not an audiophile, but have been a software/data professional for more than 40 years, and digital music (until it encounters a DAC) is just data. Even the timing is just data. Even the occasional error won’t usually cause a problem as long as the receiving end has a big enough buffer (and they usually do: memory is cheap), a bad data packet will just be resent. To wit: a bit is a bit is a bit is a bit. It is either a one or a zero there are not in-between values. It is not like analog which is of course, real time and allows no second chances.

I began streaming Tidal on my computer 8 years ago and wifi’d to an Airport Express connected to my HiFi. Upgraded to a 300 $ streamer and a 300$ DAC. Found it so good that I bought Innuos Zen Mini, which was a significant upgrade in SQ. Moved on with RME Adi-2 DAC, which gave more clarity and better SQ. Then a new Ethernet cable, which much to my surprise was quite significant. 

I am quite impressed with my SQ, when listen to other solutions. Especially the details and the clarity of the music. 

I would any day recommend a good streamer, even though I still haven’t understood, how there can be a difference. 

@dtx I would like to push back as to how much streamers matter. Would you be willing to compare your Node against a Chromecast? And would you be willing willing to try to place a reclocker between your streamer and DAC, like the iFi SPDIF reclocker? 

I second the Bluesound Node 2i recommendations and using an external dac.  I have not heard the rest of these mentioned but I can vouch for this product being excellent.  

I actually use the DAC in my Anthem MRX receiver and it's definitely better than the Node's DAC.

I dont think (could be wrong) there's a hill of beans worth of difference in the streaming portions of any of these players. It's all about the DAC and the analogue output stage.

I have the Bluesound Powernode 2 with NHT speakers and Sunfire sub and can maybe hear just a little positive difference now after 2 months with Tidal Masters MQA recordings vs normal Tidal through the Powernode 2. But it’s a small and underwhelming difference, and I was hoping for more of an MQA v non-MQA distinction - like I hear with my Teac NT-505/ARC/Spendor setup.

@OP in addition to sound quality and aesthetic considerations, I find that a streamer’s software also plays an important role. The BluOS was one of the few day-one supporters for Amazon Music’s new high res streams. For that reason, I consider streamers by NAD and Bluesound highly. I’m considering a Node 2i for myself. Audiotroy put Lumin on my radar as well.

@larry yes MQA sounds better than CD quality to me. With MQA, you are hearing a version of 24-bit content after all. I haven’t compared MQA against 24-bit PCM, but I have compared both high res qualities against CD quality streams. I heard more atmosphere, more realism, fuller base, with the high res content. Because high res content is now widely available, it makes sense to me to have a streamer that supports either PCM or MQA 24-bit content.

No one can answer your questions about why you prefer one DAC or streaming source over another.  Make your own decision and enjoy the music.

I don't know why I found using just the Bluesound Node 2i to sound better than the external DAC.  Is there something about listening to Master recordings streaming TIDAL's MQA?  I sensed warmth and space for some reason.  Wonder if anyone else hears the difference when streaming MQA or am I trying to believe MQA must be magic?

larry5729
When you connect the Bluesound Node 2i to another DAC via its optical or coax output it bi-passes the Bluesound DAC and uses the DAC "down the line"

@larry5729

(1) If you use optical out of a streamer, you will bypass that streamer’s DAC. You are only using one DAC.

(2) I don’t exactly know which S2 DAC your have, but even if your S2 supports MQA, it may not be decoding MQA. For example the Pre Box S2 Digital supports MQA only over USB, not SPDIF. It's on the Pro Ject website. So, your comparisons between the Node DAC and S2 DAC may actually be comparisons between MQA and CD streams. You may ask your dealer for a refund if your dealer intended to sell you DAC to decode MQA, or if you made it clear to your dealer that you wanted to decode MQA.

Teac nt505 will beat LUMIN D2 and costs less and uses same control app. Go with modern dac technology not 12 yr old dac technology. Ymmv

larry5729

I’m sure you are hearing different results comparing the two DACs.
However I guess I don’t quite understand the whole Dac feeding another Dac 
thing either. I have a Laptop in my system that streams to a Dac. I realize not everyone wants to use a Laptop so hence the appeal of the Node2i.
Although you can also stream to a Apple TV or Chromecast audio device from your phone or iPad with decent results. 
One last thing Schiit Modi 3 is (IMHO) is a wonderful sounding Dac for very little $$. YMMV. Good luck finding the right combo! 

I am using a Roon Nucleus as both end point and core, feeding an Ayre Codex. That combination is a whole universe beyond the Raspberry Pi Day I used a couple years ago and the Bluesound Node and Cambridge CXN 2 (both of which I like as entry level pieces). I was very disappointed upon hearing forum touted pieces from Aurilic, Chord and others. I think to do better than the Ayre/Nucleus combo, one has to go over $5k, to the Ayre QX-8, etc. If anyone wants the best streamer, that's easy - the DCS Network Bridge will transport any DAC to the next level!

I recently purchased a Bluesound Node 2i and the dealer suggested adding a Pro-Ject S2 DAC.  By connecting the two using a digital coax cable, I lost the complete unfold of MQA.  Adding the Pro-Ject DAC added more trebble.  More pronounced sound of cymbals and greater vocal focus, but I feel it sounds harsher than playing the Bluesound by itself.  The bass seemed to tighten up a bit using the DAC, but it also sounds thinner.  So far, I think I like the sound of the Bluesound Node 2i played by itself.  I also feel I am noticing a difference when playing completely unfolded MQA recordings.  The Dianna Krall MQA recording I listened to sounds warmer and more natural.  Not sure I am imagining this.  However, is there something about MQA I shouldn't miss out on?  When connecting the Pro-Ject DAC by way of digital coax cable, I can only get one MQA unfold.  If this is the case, is the Pro-Ject filtering out sound?  Wish I knew more about this.  The dealer kept telling me by adding the DAC I will hear greater detail and a more lifelike sound stage.  There must be a reason why MQA came out.  Can people hear a difference when hearing full MQA or was this a clever way for Bob Stewart to generate multiple revenue streams.  

I talked to the Pro-Ject customer service yesterday and he told me he doesn't recommend adding an external DAC to another DAC.  Got the impression the DAC's fight each other.  However, the dealer told me connecting the Bluesound to an external DAC by passes the DAC inside the Bluesound.  Not sure who to believe.

You could get a Raspberry Pi and use as streamer and then connect it to almost any dac you choose. This may leave you with more budget for the dac since the RPi only costs about $100 with a box.

Here are some videos about this but you can search for Raspberry Pi and streaming.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR4tuhqPppVp-PD0q17sPEA

I can’t imagine the Lumin D2 not impressing you. A simple, well made and great sounding all in one unit.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did chance upon a forum where someone had the Innuos Zen + Qutest combination and he was very very pleased with it. The Innuous has been on my wishlist since then and all the more now that you've brought it up. However, I'm quite satisfied with the sound I'm getting from my Sony Vaio laptop (gasp!) with Audirvana + Fidelizer Pro for the time being.

chip if you really want to experience what your Chord can do, listen to an Innuous Zen you can upconvert PCM files to approximate high res and accomplish much what the Mscaler can do and you get a Roon core to boot.

The quality of the signnal being feed to the dac makes a huge difference. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Innuous dealers

Audiotroy thanks for clearing this up. I did not know that. Doh! I have both the Chord Qutest (main system used with Sony Vaio laptop, Audirvana + Fidelizer Pro and iFi gemini cable) and the Bluesound Node 2i (living room system) and never experimented with using both together. 

To the OP, I guess I just wasted your time. Sorry! 

The blue sound nodes usb connection is for memory sticks input only.

Hi Dave/Troy,

May I ask why the Bluesound Node 2i will not perform optimally through USB? You would be bypassing the internal DAC (which sounds decent) of the Node 2i to the better Qutest DAC. Provided you have a really good USB Cable (iFi Gemini, Audioquest or Curious) going into the Qutest I don't see why the combination would not work as well as suggested. 

Chip the Chord is an excellent dac but the Blue Sound will not perform optimially with a superior dac that shoudl be run via USB especially for the higher sampling rates.

Interesting Rbsterno, we had the Auarlic Aries and found its sound quality to be very lacking. 

As per ethernet being better it depends on the dac and how you are feeding it. certain dacs will sound better via usb while others via ethernet.

Also using a standard computer to feed your streaming dac does not equil nirvanah, we have tested extensively standard computers running Roon on the network via ethernet and then playing the same feed from a dedicated server also via etherent and the server sounded far better. 

So the take away is that just because you are running via etherent doesn't mean you will get great sound.

Part of the reason the Lumin makes such sense is it is an optomized one box system no cable streamer directly feeding the dac. 

Our two recommendations for inexpensive streaming dacs are the Ifi Dsd and the Lumin D2 both are very hard to beat, be more than happy to compare the Ifi being feed by an Inuous Zen vs your PS any day of the week. 

The fact that this gentleman likes the sound of the Ifi headphone amp means he will also love the sound of the Ifi DSD which is just an incredible little dac/streamer, yes it is bit more however, the option of running cheaper dac, plus cable plus streamer won't be that much less expensive.

Rbsterno we carry a ton of dacs, Mytek, Lumin, Nad, Naim, Ifi, Lumin, Nuprime, Innuous servers and others. It is our speciality.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ 

Thanks, yeah the aesthetic is super important since it's in our main living space, hence the need for a one box solution. 

If you can stretch your budget a bit more I'd like to suggest a combination of: Bluesound Node 2i streamer ($500) + Chord Qutest DAC ($1,895). Caveat: you'll have 2 separate boxes but the bright side is that they're both quite small so minimal footprint. The Bluesound BluOS app is quite snappy and easy to navigate and the Chord Qutest is the bees knees. I think you would have to spend a whole lot more to best the performance of this combination however admittedly aesthetically speaking its not the best. Also, I realize the price of the combination is close to $2500 which can get you a  one-box solution as the Auralic Altair G1 but I doubt that its internal DAC will sound better than the Qutest (granted I have not heard the Altair G1 but have read glowing reviews). 

If your budget is fixed at $1500 I have a friend that is very happy with the Cambridge Audio CXN 2 but I haven't personally heard it yet (though I trust his ears) and as mentioned above the app leaves much to be desired.

Thanks for the suggestions, even the dealers! I never understood why people think their input isn't valid. They carry the products because they sell and they sell because they are good and customers are happy with them, right? At least that's what happens with the dealers I know. I may try to grab an Aurelic or Lumin on the used market to minimize risk.

I have a Cambridge Audio CXN 2. The sound is great but the Cambridge Audio App which you need if you are to use a smart phone as a remote is crap. Tidal's App is not great but much better than  that from Cambridge ( made in China not the UK).

Of course Dave carries the LUMIN, why would he recommend it if he didn’t. The Lumin is decent, but I thought the Auralic Aries was better. But, you don’t need a streamer. Most streamers require you to use USB which is flawed and you can spend many $$$$ trying to make usb sound better.
if you have a pc or preferable linux or a Mac computer, buy Roon to run on that. Then get a top quality dac like a used ps audio DS jr or DS sr that has a network interface. Roon is by far the best interface/server for local and streaming Tidal and others, and the ps audio dacs are rated A+ by the trade rags if you read them. BTW, tomorrow we get a free firmware upgrade for the DS dacs that improve SQ. 
Keep it simple!

Used or close out of Auralic Altair . You can still find them (first generation) new for around 1600 or 1700 bucks. Less used. 

I tend to agree with audiotroy. A system is only as good as its weakest link. 

the issue big greg is that the Blue Sound Node is a decent steamer but it is hardly the end all and be all in streaming and it doesn't output anything higher than 24/192k and no DSD files  to a dac.

The Lumin D2 is a standout because it does high res and can actually upconvert or transocde PCM into DSD.

If you buy a $1,000 dac a good digital cable and a Node you are very close to the price of a Lumin D2 which will sound better

@elizabeth There's lots of truth in what you said. 

I would go more in the direction of something like a Bluesound Node 2i and a decent external DAC. 

I should say, that's what I've done in my system.  Streamers seem to be a pretty fast moving target with new services and ways of connecting being added all the time.  What's great now might be quickly obsolete.  I had a nice (at the time) Marantz streamer and had I not got rid of it when I did, it would be next to worthless now from a resale standpoint and would not meet my current wants.

And the dealer pronounced, Thou Shalt Spend More, and Thou Shalt Spend It With Me.

Dhcod, you really need to upgrade your budget a bit, You have great equipment and even used at $1,500.00 you are not going to find many streaming dacs that are good enough to match your system.

You should look at a Lumin D2 which is a great streamer for the money.

You should also look at the Ifi DSD pro which offers a similar sound to the little Ifi headphone amp, this is a tube coupled dac which employs some radical technology. Very musical huge soundstage.

We sell both of these dac streamers if you need more information please PM us.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ IFI and Lumin dealers