What qualities stand out in really good solid state preamps?
Recently I posted on the Herron HL-1, asking people what they thought, how it compared, etc. It's been sold and that's ok. The search continues.
But it raises a question I'd like to ask folks:
What attributes do you look for in a good solid state preamp?
Some qualities — quietness, durability, seem pretty obvious.
But what other criteria do you use to differentiate between solid state preamps?
How can they differ and what matters to you?
Please let me know!
P.S. As I've looked around, I've begun to learn more about some of the legendary preamps — made by companies such as Threshold, Ayre, Bryston, Pass, Apt-Holman, and others. It's good to have these names as references, but it would be even more useful if I knew what these brands conveyed, sonically. I've played with the idea of getting a newer Schiit preamp and then I wonder -- what if there's a "classic" preamp out there, used? What would it deliver that was worth searching for?
I have 2 systems, ( only Rock and Roll) Each is hooked up with an LA-4 Benchmark pre Amp, balanced System 1 Pass 250.8 System 2 ATI 6002 Very Happy! Benchmark gives you 30 day trial, a little over 3k with remote (each), made in NY, 5 year warranty. Rory at Benchmark, great to deal with. Always get to speak with a human. SERVICE, SERVICE Important to me. Good luck!!! |
@yyzsantabarbara The Holo Serene is said to have excellent holographic soundstage qualities though perhaps this is more a reflection of upstream and downstream gear and cables since the pre is very neutral. Would you characterize the soundstage in your main system as having "palpable presence"? I am just so intrigued by this preamp but never heard it and don't know anyone locally that has one. |
You ask a good question. I have owned high end amps and preamps since the late 1970’s with Threshold being the first. I finally moved up to tube amps over the last decade.
Different people are looking for different sounds. Some want “high end” sound, which is often exaggerated treble and bass… transparent, highlighted detail, lots of slam and imaging. Lots of older high end solid state equipment has this sound… partially because it was not known how to get good mid-range bloom and great rhythm and pace in solid state into solid state. This has been improving. Pass recognized this earlier than most with his XA series amps, Now much more natural sounding solid state amps are available from companies like Pass. Going back even ten years though you can loose much of the rhyth and pace. Getting more natural / musical sound comes first from a good tube preamp… like Audio Research or Conrad Johnson. Then if you are unwilling to go to tubed amps, look at Pass x series or XA series.
There are lots of companies doing the less natural, “high end sounding amps”, like Luxman. There is also MacIntosh, who does powerful heavy midrange / bass amps with under emphasized detai and treble. These “muscle car” like amps are really good at rock music.
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@hilde45 After either listening or owning for a while about 1/2 dozen preamps, I found that warm preamps that add extra euphonic sound is unsatisfying to me, preamps such as a Coda 07x, Luxman c900u. My goal is to let the preamp produce the sound of the amp, source, and cables without adding to the mix. My current Livingroom system has a warm amp with a slightly warm speaker. Adding a warm preamp to this would be a disaster for me. Interestingly, my friend who is a huge tube guy and is currently building a tube preamp (to sell) that is going to cost more than any gear I own, loved my SS Holo Serene preamp connected to a SS CODA #16 amp. He was really hearing the CODA #16 + source + speakers. He was comparing my Livingroom speaker to speakers that were $600k 17 years ago. In my office I have a Benchmark LA4 connected to a Sanders Magtech amp and Magnepan LRS+ speakers. The LRS+ is more on the neutral side, I let the Sanders dictate the sound of this system. For me that is easier to get the sound correct with less additions to the sonics. The most satisfying thing for me was getting the positive feedback of my friend who is straight shooter and loved both systems. I told him before he came over to bring over a great tube preamp to my place because I thought he would hate my preamps. In the past, he hated some of my prior gear and told me issues I had with my small office system. BTW - I sold my friends tube headphone amp to buy the Sanders Magtech. Now that I earned enough cash I bought back the tube headphone amp. I am not averse to tubes. |
@hilde45 Exactly. Just because a preamp can throw an expansive and transparent soundstage with properly placed performers left to right and front to back does not necessarily mean those performers are life-like with body and meat on the bones. For me, it's a matter of 2-dimensional versus 3-dimensional images (performers) and what I am still trying to ascertain from those who own the Holo Serene KTE. This solid state preamp is described as neutral, dynamic, transparent and very revealing but does it present the performers in a 3-dimensional way way with a body attached to their voice or instrument? I have owned the Ayre K-5xeMP mentioned above and it is an excellent preamp but it wasn't until I replaced it with the Ayre K-1xe that performers (images) had a more 3-D and round presentation in space. In short, the music was more believable (for me, in my room, with my equipment). So, tubes or solid state I am looking for the same things: a believable presentation of music by real performers in real space. LIVE is the reference. |
So for me, sounds more like a Conrad Johnson than an Audio Research. 😁 I like colorful liars with excellent dynamics and imaging. The midrange is especially important along with a treble that doesn't call attention to itself. I'm less concerned with low noise, given my predilection for tube gear... but of course in a SS preamp I'd expect it to be dead quiet. |
So there is nothing beyond tonality -- the only difference is warmth or tubiness vs. neutral/non-additive -- which matters for you? If noise or quietness is the only factor for you, I am still stumped how you differentiate between preamps, other than the way they suit your tastes (color, functions) or create synergy with your existing equipment. @soix The Ayre has a great reputation -- I'm trying to find out which sonic attributes these famous preamps are known for -- beyond just being quiet or neutral. @fuzztone @mapman If you listened to 10 neutral preamps, would there be anything else sonically that would help you decide between them or would it all come down to non-sonic attributes? Either there is nothing at stake except quietness/neutrality or there are additional descriptors not yet mentioned. E.g. I recently compared two SS preamps. One was inexpensive, Chinese. The other was really great parts and design by a local DIY'er. Neither preamp added tonal "color" (i.e., tonal character, such as warmth) but they presented the music differently. In one, the soundstage was bigger, fuller (maybe not more detailed) and instruments and voices had more presence, body, realism -- that "in the room" quality. These were not mentioned by above posters, so I'm concerned that I am superimposing them onto what I'm hearing -- unless others have noticed these, too, but are just not mentioning them. |
@hilde45 I want my SS preamp to not add anything to the sound. I have 3 preamps and 2 of then adhere to the non-additive principle.
You are not going to find anything quieter than these 2, except the much lower quality Topping pre90 (I also owned it). There was an online review somewhere that compared the 2 units. The reviewer preferred the Serene over the LA4 though he was splitting hairs. I prefer the better functionality and the slighter more neutral sound of the LA4. Both are exactly what I want in a SS preamp. I also have the latest Schitt Mjolnir preamp (Class A). It is supposed to be their best ever preamp. I used to have the Freya+ and I like the Mjolnir much more than the Freya+. I use the Mjolnir with the Schitt Aegir amp for my RAAL headphones (or I used to, not sure if that will continue). The Mjolnir is a good preamp that adds color where as the other 2 are great preamps. A SS preamp that is tube like is the CODA 07x preamp (sort of like the Mjolnir). I owned that at the same time as the LA4. I decided that I wanted neutrality over tubiness in my 2-channel rigs. I use tubes on headphones (why the Mjolnir may not be needed anymore). |
Really comes down to what sound characteristics you’re looking for, but if I was to boil it down to one word it’d be refinement. Specifically, a pre that is naturally detailed and not harsh or etched along with being well balanced and offering good tonality. 3D soundstage is a strength of tubes, so to the extent you can get a good dose of that in a SS pre that’d be a big plus. I think a good example of such things, and given that you were looking at the Herron, something like this Ayre would be in the ballpark… Hope this helps somewhat, and best of luck in your search. |
I’d have to say objectively the best will share characteristics of extended smooth frequency response, low noise, and low distortion. That was easy, eh? But wait, there’s more…. In addition to that features matter. Does it have the needed inputs? Outputs? Any other desirable features to help tune the sound? Then comes aesthetics. Looks matter, as does feel. High quality preamps have controls that are a pleasure to use. Smooth, firm, functional, robust . Ahh…. I think that covers it.
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