What Digital to Digital Converter Do You Use? Why?

Tim Conners at Kitsune Hifi..US distributor for Holo said that USB and I2s were equally good with the May DAC KTE.

He also suggested that many high dollar USB were not ideal and suggested the lower priced Premium USB at this link:

Plugged in my Audio GD DI-20HE DDC over the weekend.
Also added a new modded network switch, USB cable, and ethernet cables.

The sound was 'jaw dropping,'
At some stage will evaluate on its own, but as part of a whole, brilliant.

@soix theres a growing tale that musician has always made Denafrips gear but there was a spat between them and musician decided to release its own line of almost identical gear. You can read about the drama on head-fi 

I recently bought a Sonnet Morpheus with both the USB & i2S modules since I currently have usb out from my Innuos zen, but buying a demo Denafrips Hermes from Rob at Audio Art, so I can use i2S on Morpheus (or AES, but every Morpheus user says i2S is best)

but like you said and I’ll add… outside of the Holo as I’ve not hear one, almost every DAC I’ve heard or knew some preferred AES or i2S. Not one of them thought usb was best. 

I'm using a Sonore Optical Rendu usb to a Sonore Ultra Digital converter which sends i2s out to my Musician Dac. I'm very pleased with the results. 

You can spend a great deal of money on a DDC these days. It seems that DDCs are audio’s new "flavor of the week."

First things first: why to bother with DDCs, or their more primitive precursors, SPDIF converters?

1 - 10+ years ago when I got my first Musical Fidelity SPDIF converter (VLink 24/96), most DACs had rather poor, non-galvanized USB input implementations. So when I first started running the USB cable from the computer to the SPDIF convertor, then running a high quality coax cable to the input of the DAC, the sound got better immediately. I never looked back. BTW, I also tried optical and found it sounded rather brittle.

2 - A great many DACs still have rather mundane (not over-built & over-engineered) USB input boards.

3 - Recently I became interested in a DDC. I didn’t want to pay >$500, which left out most of the hot DDC brands du jour. I settled on the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 for 3 reasons:

a. I own other Matrix gear and know them to be well designed and manufactured

b. I could buy it from Violectric’s US distributor, Arthur Power (a number of good experiences w/Arthur over the years)

c. And this particular DDC will run on either 5V USB power (ie, w/o external power) or can be powered via walwart.

I installed this DDC in place of my current SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity VLink 24/192) running signal into the MHDT Labs Orchid DAC (NOS). I heard an immediate improvement in sonics--not earthshaking, but meaningful, including better separation of intstrument & voices, slightly more depth in soundstage, and slightly blacker backgrounds.

Net/net; I’ve demonstrated to my own satisfaction that an affordable DDC is well worth having.

Well, I just took the plunge and bought a Denafrips Iris DDC.  My Pegasus DAC shares some of its DNA with the Pontus ll, and the review of the Iris on The Audio Beatnik makes me pretty confident I’ll realize some significant benefits.  I was eyeing the new Musician Pisces DDC as it would obviously pair well with my DAC, but on further review the Iris and Pisces look like clones in specs and on the inside (maybe not all that surprising as like the Pontus and Pegasus they come from the same factory), and I was able to get the Iris used for $399 so that pretty much sealed the deal.  I’ll report back with comparisons to USB in my HeadFi rig, but I’m due to get my DNA 0.5 back from SMcAudio soon with full upgrades and I think hearing it in my 2-channel system will be even more telling and will share those impressions too if anyone is interested. 

@ghdprentice 

I always stay away from converters. Add extra stuff to the signal path is always a bad thing. I use what is native.

You're closer to the end state of your hi fi journey than many of us who are either starting or are in the middle of their journey. How about a little empathy? ;-) 

I'm not going to argue the technical merits of USB vs. I2S but rather try to imagine that someone has a DAC with both interfaces and for whatever reason I2S sounds better?

I agree that putting DDC "barrel connector" in the signal path isn't optimal but if it provides a better listening experience by definition it can't be a "bad thing".

One day this probably won't even be a consideration as the technology will have sufficiently advanced such that we can get the integrated Streamer/DAC that is emotionally engaging and at a reasonable price point. In the mean time, we all do what we can, the best that we can. 

ps. Love your system! Although I can't see it anymore. I haven't been able to see Virtual Systems since around the time they instituted "bot checking". I suspect I am not alone.

to ghdprentice

    Agree, I'm not sold on converting any native output signal, just adds interpellation (maybe good or bad).  What did make a very notable difference for me was using a cheap "break-out" box on an OPPO 83 HDMI output to separate the native I2s and feed it to a Pontus II.  Notably better than coax/optical/spdif sound from regular CDs.  Plus dsd layer output from SACD disks, a lot better!  If you have HDMI output from whatever device your not converting anything, just accessing part of the source native signal in this chain.

While it obviously can happen in certain cases, I think it’s fair to say people who prefer other connections to i2S are in the minority so for most it would be worth exploring if their DAC has an i2S conncection. 

Wow!  So I’m not the only one!!  I have conducted several A/B tests between my Gustard U18 & PS Audio Directstream DAC with updated firmware - every time the AES/EBU wins hands down.

I know some people who prefer AES/EBU over I2S.

Other than the Holo DAC I’ve never heard anyone say they preferred another connection to i2S.  Some extra connections are worth making it seems. 

I always stay away from converters. Add extra stuff to the signal path is always a bad thing. I use what is native. 
 

Which input is better is always dependent on the output device and the input device. USB has recently added to the list of legitimate inputs. It was originally a computer thing and not associated with high end audio. Was added as folks with computers started using them as streamers. They are now becoming main stream.

+1 @jackd HOLO DAC’s are designed with USB as the favored input. With KTE versions they designed further enhancement to that input. Also, any power riding on the USB cable is nulled before galvanic isolation.

I use a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB interface because my DAC does not have a USB input. It provides better sonic performance than the Fiio K3 from which I upgraded.

audioman58

2,733 posts

08-22-2022 at 10:42pm 

Denafrips IHave been using along time great build quality, great value 

and their whole line up sounds very good ,I own the Aries2,

pontus2 , Terminator 2 , the Terminator 2  makes everything sound great..................................................I have the Ares2 with CEC Transport........sounds great but how much of an upgrade in the Denafrips line do I need to make ,to hear a fairly substantial difference......

I use a Behringer Ultramatch SRC2496 because I have it, it still works, and it provides me with the ability to convert the toslink output on my source to AES/EBU input on my digital crossover. I like the level meters and pretty indicator lights. It has a headphone jack with a touchy volume control - gets very loud quick on typical headphones! My biggest gripe is that the power supply can vibrate and make the chassis hum so I have to damp it down to keep it quiet. 

+1 for Matrix X-SPDIF 2

I don’t necessarily think that I2S will always bring an improvement over USB for any given device. However, in this case it provided noticeable improvement in SQ.

The unit has three dip switches:

1. MCLK
2. IIS Reverse
3. DoP to Native

My setup:

Sonic Orbiter Roon Core i5 (Upsampling) > Ethernet (switch) > ifi Zen stream + MCRU LPS > USB > Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 > I2S > Wyred4Sound DAC-2v2SE

I’m using a AudioQuest Forest 48 0.75m HDMI Cable. I’d rather have a shorter cable but it seems to work well.

I’m also powering the Matrix X-SPIDF 2 off the Zen Streams USB instead of the wall wart. So far, so good.

I would never use usb. I won’t use any tweaks to try to get better performance from usb. I use Ethernet and i2s to my dac, and my dac is fpga based.

I use Audio GD Di 20 HE too.  Did wonders to clean the USB output from an Innuos server.  Stayed on for a month for burn in, but got even better with an external clock from AfterDark and a good BNC cable.

Now waiting to demo a Melco S10 and an Antipodes Oladra to check if they are really better by a significant margin.

I'm upgrading my DDC in a month.

Have decided on the Audio GD DI-20HE. Have a few mods booked in for it in the UK before I receive it.

I use the DACs built into Hypex FA-series Ncore plate amps. Because those preamp/DSP/amps do it all in one unit (per stereo channel), are built into a a pair of OB-subs (one plate mounted in each). Allows active crossover and filtering of main speakers and subs while minimizing gear/racks/cables. DIY lifestyle system leaving only the sources visible. Also relatively inexpensive, leaving budget for other things that have greater impact - for me, room acoustics.

If you're dead-set on the best DAC, follow along with Gabster (YouTube) and build your own ultra-capacitor based unit.

I use a Matrix between my Aurender N100H and my PS Audio DAC.  The DDC allows me to feed DSD128 and DSD256 directly to my DAC not that I can really tell the difference.

The 5 volt rail is the weak link with USB because it has the potential to pick up noise from the source.  With the Matrix, if you connect an external linear power supply, it isolates the 5 volt rail from the USB source, and in theory should improve the SQ because the LSU is used as the power source.

I've read on other forums where some people have said the external LSU makes no difference and others that have said it made a big difference.  It occurred to me that everything is dependent on the noise being generated at the source.  For example, the USB out on a PC might be more prone to noise compared to the USB out on the Aurender music server.  Does this make sense to anyone?  BTW, good topic! 

Denafrips IHave been using along time great build quality, great value 

and their whole line up sounds very good ,I own the Aries2,

pontus2 , Terminator 2 , the Terminator 2  makes everything sound great 

even streaming recordings Thst are not that well done , 

better then vinyl in many ways ,their Terminstor+ , i maybe looking into .

Anyone try/use I2S Black Magic MKII from AfterDark

According to the designer the USB input on the Holo May is the preferred one so try it until the DAC is broken in.  I have both a May KTE and a Spring 3 KTE and I concur with the designer and see no need personally for a DDC.  Your money though if you have an itch. I would and was more interested in finding the right USB cable.  

I purchased the Denafrips Iris DDC (installing later this week), but I will be outputting to a Denafrips Pontus II DAC.....which has configurable I2S inputs as well. If you're considering the Iris to the Holo Audio, I'd reach out to Alvin Chee of Vinshine to check on compatibiltiy

I use a Matrix X SPDIF 2 between my Innous Zenith MKII streamer and PS Audio Direct Stream DAC.  For I2S, I use a .7 meter Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 HDMI cable.  I get a very noticeable SQ improvement via I2S as opposed to USB from the Zenith directly to the DAC.  

I'm sure there are better DDC converters than the Matrix, but I'm quite satisfied with it in my system.

i have a CEDAR DCX and CRX [declicker/decrackler] which are digital-only devices, and to get analog sound through them in the process of digitizing old phonograph recordings, i use a Phillips ISP a/d converter to put it through the CEDAR pair, then a Mission d/a to convert back into analog for recording onto a Tascam SD recorder so i can put them onto my hard drive for further editing. 

I’m rethinking the SU-6 now after reading more about the Denafrips Iris that is only $542 and seems to share a lot of the same design aspects with the SU-6, and in this review it seems to generate similar results as well. Not sure it’ll work with my Pegasus and have some more research to do, but the Iris looks promising so far and I could put the extra $200 toward a better HDMI cable. Never ends.

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/review-denafrips-iris-ddc-digital-to-digital-converter/

I enjoyed the Matrix2. It has PS Audio (the orig) configuration. Then it failed. Apos sent out a new one but I haven’t put it back online yet.

I got it for a second i2s input which I have since filled.  It is downright holographic compared to a cheap Amenero box.

@soix 

Seeing the SU-6 review is what prompted my post.

So far..responses are positive.  My Holo DAC, which arrives in five days, has a configurable HDMI i2s

I have the Dinafrips Hermes with I2s into the Venus II DAC. With the Hermes installed 2 things stand out. The soundstage is 20% (estimated) larger wide and deeper and the Bass has much better refinement and definition. 

I have a Singxer SU-1.  I bought because the Metrum Onyx Dac I had sounded a bit better. with the S/PDIF input.  However, I now have a Totaldac D1 core.  It sounds noticeably better with the USB input than going thru the SU-1.  Better soundstage and sonics.  

I’ve got the Zen Stream too and am planning on getting the Singxer SU-6 as per reviews it offers a lot of performance/$. If you’re willing to spend more there are other great options from Denafrips, Musician, Matrix, etc. I’d suggest reading reviews of the SU-6 and the new Musician Phoenix at soundnews.net to get more good info on those units.

Just a couple tips in case you’re just starting to look at a DDC — whatever model you choose make sure it’s compatible with the HDMI pin configuration of your DAC or it might not work. Frustratingly there currently is no standard pin configuration for I2S applications so potential incompatibility is an issue. And with HDMI for i2S if at all possible the HDMI cable should be no longer than 1 foot or less as the signal does not travel well. I was able to find one that short at Monoprice just to get started, but several people report the cable seems to have a relatively minor effect on the sound so I may stick with it for a while before upgrading to something from DH Labs, Phasure, etc. Hope this helps, and best of luck.