I would say some of the most under-rated are Pi Speakers, by Wayne Parham. In my opinion, the designs of his that I have spent some time with, the 4Pi and 7Pi, are superb.
Wayne offers plans for free, and his designs use prosound drivers which many audiophiles have prejudices against, but he uses really good-sounding, studio-quality ones. And he is a master of crossover design (he was one of my teachers).
Wayne also offers assembled speakers, but I get the impression that because they are also offered as a kit, they do not have the mystique that many audiophiles are attracted to.
It's tough to say a whole company is overrated, but I'll take a stab at it.
Overrated: Wilson Audio, I only heard them sound good on 2 occasions. B&W-i think this more do to their popularity, their have been times I've heard them sound good and horrible but never great. Vandersteen-they have just never done it for me....most of time I've heard them they souded bloated and slow thru the bass, although for it's price I really liked the 1c. It's some others I would name but I'm not.. Underrated-Wharfedale, Quad box speakers, Spendor, Legacy, Ohm, Tannoy, Klipsch Heritage series, Polk LSi, JbL,PMC, GR Research, Definitive Technology, Mission, Epos, Phase Technology
From Wildfoxinn "
Paradigm Persona (expensive copycat of B&W) and Joseph Audio (expensive speaker with off the shelf drivers, no low diffraction cab or waveguide even, can easily be replicated for a cheaper price)."
@wildfoxinn how did you come to this determination? As a previous owner of B&W and a current owner of first the Persona 3F and now the 9H I can guarantee you that they sound nothing like B&W.
I would agree B&W is overrated but I attribute part of that to their positioning in Best Buy stores. This has increased their visibility and likely quality of specific lines to fit that group of consumers.
The Persona's are extremely underrated. The SQ you get from the 3F for the cost is a steal. Moving up to the 5, 7 or 9 series the value per dollar decreases. The 9H is still a phenomenal speaker. I had never been impressed with Paradigm in the past. I would never have bought a pair. The Persona's are a completely different speaker. Comparing them to B&W is not accurate whatsoever.
dave123456 You are right,many hyped dac are non musical and many speakers also, perhaps most... Paired them and you will understand the ordeal I go trough at the end of seven years and many thousand dollars of expanse for my journey...Now I am satisfied oufff...Music and analytical microscopes are incompatible in audio, it is my humble experience..."details without whole" are engineered hallucinations or obsessions not music...
I wanted to add I agree most psb speakers I’ve heard have been pretty good. The Stratus Mini has been my favorite small speaker for awhile now.
It seems like alot of the speaker companies I’ve heard can’t get basic musicality right, which psb does (and the Paradigm Atom v3) so easily. Many companies go for a "analytical" and accurate sound at the expense of being unmusical and uninvolving. With these type of non musicalspeakers I never forget I'm listening to a pair of speakers.
Paradigm Atom v3- I bought a used pair for $20.00 recently and they sound fantastic in my small bedroom. I can't imagine a $200.00 pair of small bookshelves sounding better, even today.
I didn't care for Klipsch Heresy of unknown vintage I bought used off Craigslist. These were easily the worst pair of hi-fi speakers I ever owned.
The Audio Note AX-Two was a good used speaker for the $300.00 ($549.00 new) I paid in 2007. They now have more than doubled in price at $1200~. I think these are overrated based on all the hype I read about them on AudioAsylum back in the mid 2000's and my ownership experience.
For me personally the most underrated speaker would be the Alon II. It's an ugly duckling, needs plenty of space. But the sound coming out of that speaker is really special! Soaring highs, boogie factor and good bass. Also the prices they go for.... If people only knew. It stomps on a lot of competition.
Overrated is difficult. I would say Sonos. Yeah I know. Also those Jbl 's mono things. They can go loud sure....... B&W 800d3 didn't do it for me either
#Offtopic: Tidal! Just compare Tidal VS Quobuz in sound quality. I was shocked and canceled my Tidal subscription instantly
Beyond a doubt, the least favorite speakers I have ever owned were the KEF LS50's. I had a 180-wpc Plinius integrated amp which drove them poorly and they were bright and harsh sounding. Of all the speakers I have personally owned, they were simply awful. My Spatial Audio M4 Triode Masters cover all the bases for me. I have heard Salk speakers at many shows and I kinda think they are much underrated. Oh, overrated as well, to my ears, are Harbeth speakers and very much overpriced.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MY LIST OF SPEAKERS FROM 1973 TO 2019:
Rectilinear III Highboys (outstanding speakers!)
AR bookshelfs
JBL L100
Electro-Voice Sentry 100's
Spica TC 40's and TC 50's
JSE Infinite Slope 3's
Goetz MS3 Towers (I had them for 20 years, made by a boutique designer)
KEF LS50 (My least-liked speakers among the bunch)
Von Schweikert V22
Usher BE-718
Totem Hawks
SVS Black Towers heard at CAS.
Klipsch Cornwalls (modded to Cornscala's)
Tyler Acoustics Lynbrook's (fine speakers, but way way too big for my room)
Dynaudio A10, A 25, A35
KEF Model 5, 6, 21 and 28?
Blumenstein Orca's
Green Mountain Audio Rio and Eos HX
GR Research LGK
ELAC Debut B6 (didn't care for them much, rockers might prefer them)
Dali Zensor 1 and 3's (both outstanding monitors)
Linkwitz Lxmini's
Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Triode Masters (By leaps and bounds, the finest speakers I have ever had in my system)
Revel M22 (Excellent monitors)
Optimus Pro LX5 (with new woofers from Dayton Audio, these are very musical)
Gallo Strada's (small speakers with a big sound, sounding much like electrostats)
Can’t see what anyone sees in B&e’s. As a say Where’s the Bass.
think SALK In incredibly underrated. For $6,000, the Song3 Encores best anything in the $20,000 range maybe $30,000 range.
In addition to being an extremely incoherent post, your last statement is laughable. When you can authoritatively say that you have heard every 20,000.00 loudspeaker, it is still a subjective opinion that you have erroneously stated as matter of fact.
It's amazing so many people are against the A/B side by side comparison. I too, feel it's one of the great "myth" busters. People who poo-poo A/B comparisons are just burying their heads in the sand.
"I have had $400/pair speakers sound like $6500/pair speakers with the right amp (Hegel) and by changing the stock brass jumpers with copper jumpers."
That's wonderful.
And, it's not meaningful, because any speaker can be improved to sound purportedly like one multiples better than X speaker. On a nearly weekly basis I make speakers, DACs, amps, etc. sound like ones multiple times the cost. At least that's how it seems. But, it only is actual when you have both together to compare, otherwise you're crafting a story about performance.
So many in the community are boasting, "My speaker sounds better (or x times better than), and it doesn't mean a thing. Until actual comparison is done side by side it's all fluff. :)
it stands to reason rating but a single pair of speakers highly or lowly is always going to be so subjecdtive and dependant on the ‘then’ circumstances of setup, room ancillary gear, and individual taste I’d think it impossible thereafter to sanely and or objectively quantify any brand at large across its production line, either approvingly or dismissively.
the sample size is too limited.
speakers as mighty as they are remain slave to the upstream equipment predominately, though more factors act in silent concxert aiding or detracting from their performance.
over rated speakers if there is such a thing, should be those whose asking price is are often prohibitive. These brands usually demand just as costly affiliates to really sing.
under rated speakers don’t usually come with the same caveats for their accompanying gear and can perform quite well with multiple . playmates, yet quite often do not receive wide spread recognition..
These last sentiments are view points , not proof.
then too, just how many audio nuts have auditioned every model speaker its maker produces? few, if any, I’m sure.
unless you have, you can’t make a proclimation, you can only make a presumption.
so any consensus for rating speakers can only be myopic, or biased as the entire production line will never see vast personal experience. only a few models here or there will get an ears on interview and even then with a exceptionally narrow array of associated equipment and setting.
i’ve had brands of which I”ve owned at least five different models. used multiple amps and sources with them. later, a lengthy list of varied wires and power and room treatments.
some brands I’ve had but three of their models. others just two and some, but one model.
I can’t justify damning or applauding any speaker brand based on such limited EXP, nor can I fully understand how anyone could.
i have determined every speaker has its ‘keys’ for sounding so so or outstanding! the trick is to figure out what ever speakers secrets and optimize it or them.
or decide a speakers true voice is only going to be realized with means well beyond my own and move on to some other brand’s models and begin again.
on the whole, I’ve been repeatedly shown great upstream gear and even modestly performing speakers, provides better results than having so called, great speakers with just entry level electronics supplying them.
keep in mind then any assessment of a particular loudspeaker brand whose hype seems exaggerated or understated is merely that… hype, and hype is plain old often groundless speculation or possibly too, massive one sided marketing tactics.
Has anyone ever actually gone to a hi end store or to a person’s house who gives a damn about set up and HEARD speakers? I have had $400/pair speakers sound like $6500/pair speakers with the right amp (Hegel) and by changing the stock brass jumpers with copper jumpers. Several people have talked correctly about room acoustics and tuning. “Free your ears, and your ass will follow...”
Don't know if they're underrated as such, but certainly below radar in the audiophile community at large: the JBL 4306 and 4429 (the L100 could also be included here). They image well, are well-balanced, very dynamic, and just sport a clean, honest and low-colored sound.
What sets them apart from many of the more popular and typical hifi-speakers is the use of compression drivers in the mids and tweeter range, and to me - even though it makes them hybrid designs - this is a good thing. Horn profiles have come a long way these last 10-15 years, especially smaller horn variations (horn "honk" or other overt coloration in modern or larger, old horns is just gibberish and a flat out anachronism), the compression drivers have been great for even longer (though we've seen some improvements here as well), and all of this gets one substantially closer to having your cake and eat it too; there's refinement and imaging here to be had, in addition to significant gain in dynamic headroom, ease, sense of physicality/visceral feel, lower distortion and coloration (yes, you heard me right: lower coloration compared to dome tweeters and coned direct radiator mids). The more I get used to listening to quality horns the more coned direct radiators sound like cones. Piano, violin and saxophone in particular I find to be revealing instruments here, and when you go all-horn wait and see how bigger string instruments like cello and double bass can sound like.
Most overrated speakers? Not that they seem excessively popular, but I've never bought into the sound of German Physiks speakers.
As I am reading this I am enjoying my overrated B&W 802d playing an excellent Led Zep II on my vinyl rig. I have no plans to ever change them. Why? I love the sound, already have them and they are too damn heavy to change out easily. Of course I am curious to hear other speakers with my setup but I love the music and enjoy them every time I listen. Jumping around seeking “better” isn’t always so satisfying.
Another example: Wilsons don't make music for me, but apparently very many people love them. I'm not about to dispute their taste, and in fact am glad they enjoy them. Jim Heckman
Fun topic, but meaningless. Sure, I have my entries in both categories (overrated KEF ls/50, underrated Vandersteen 3A Signature), but like all else in audio (and the world) it's a matter of personal taste. Vandersteen is never going to sound great to millercarbon, while they do sound great to me. Both valid views. Maybe the real takeaway from this discussion is the highly variable reliability of professional reviews. Jim Heckman
And just because a speaker is 20-30k... doesn't mean its good.
I'll take the top end Salk's (9.5, SS10, SS12) all day long over the Wilson Yvette, any Paradigm Persona and a few others all day long.
To me, the Wilson Yvette is merely "ok" and way overpriced. Now the Sasha 2, with the soft dome tweeter, used at 20k... that's a damn fine speaker. At 36k... ah that's overpriced.
We get you think Salks are "merely" ok... but it's really really hard to find a thread on any page, or a review by anyone that doesn't think the world of what they get for the money, which to me accounts for an "underrated" classification by many.
At 20k plus... I would EXPECT a speaker to be phenomenal (though many are not). Heck, the Persona's to many fall in that category.
Now in the stuff you endlessly push out here, I think the Legacy Focus SE is a heck of a speaker, and for what they can be found for used can be a great bargain.
I think the ATC stuff sounds damn good, but it's just so freaking expensive for what you get. The 50's (both active and passive, but particularly Active) are pretty amazing.
For me, some of the most underrated, or least heard and appreciated, are the old Apogees - particularly the Duetta Signatures and the somewhat smaller Stages. Both the Duetta Sigs in a medium to large room and the Stages in a small to medium room (when driven with adequate power and set up properly) present the accuracy of timber, the detail, stage and intimacy of the Quads with the fullness, harmonics, ambiance and dynamics of a live performance. Very close would be the Sound Labs Electrostatics - 545s, 645s or 845s, depending on the room to fill and your budget and of course, the Magnapans.
For me the most overrated would be most $25K box speakers that have all the dynamics of a live performance but detailed to the point of being etched and lacking in the air, ambiance and timber of a live acoustic performance...Jim
By the way price are no indication in general of quality"per se"... A simple example, the best headphone I own is the headphone I pay 50 bucks new many years ago and they are better if properly damped than all my others including 2 Stax, hifiman HE 400, and AKG 340 and AKG 701...Then price in speakers are not also an indication of quality of sound "per se" in general... For sure anybody knows that we must pay for quality but it is a very general rule with many, many, exceptions...This Fostex can are one...
You do realize that the MMGs are Magnepan’s entry level speaker and cost $600/pair, don’t you? You called them "top level speakers" and then proceeded to discredit them when compared to your Mission Cyrus 781 at $900/pair. Sure, the MMG owner may not have prepared his listening room correctly or even had them set up correctly, negatively impacting the sound, but Magnepans have traditionally been thought of as some of the best value speakers on the market, regardless of price, especially when paired with a sub. It’s possible that I’m a bit biased because I bought a pair of 15 year old Magnepan 20.1s (originally $12,500) for $5,500 and absolutely love them, but I think the only speakers that can compare to them cost more than $20,000. This is the price point at which we begin talking about "top level speakers".
You misread my post... I said explicitly that the Magnepan are at another level of quality sound than my Mission in principle for many reason(one being a superior technology at this price range the difference between price is not significative)... My point was not discrediting them ...My point was that a speaker is on his optimal peak point ONLY after many cleaning,damping, room treatment and many other essential tweaks... And I give this example with my audition of the superior MMG in a bad noisy embeddings...Here they speak of TOTL speakers at a high level price...But they speak about the sound of these speakers without being conscious that NO speakers sound what they may be able to give in term of sound without any cleaning whatsoever... It is like price was a warrenty...And to dissipate any doubt I will repete my saying, MMG are superior to my Mission but not on all count, anywhere and without cleaning methods... Giving the right embedding yes they crush my Mission...But this day I listen to them, no... Why? Because my own Mission are embedded in an heavily cleaned room and house on many counts...Nevermind the speakers you bought you must clean the room and the electrical grid of the house, treat the vibrations first before upgrading or speaking about them...
I must agree with those who consider the Golden Ear products overrated.
They get a lot of mileage and street cred from the great sonics of the folded ribbon tweeter, which is superb, producing great clarity and detail resolution, which also adds to their great soundstage and imaging... BUT (there’s always a but)... their mids and bass are veiled and do not possess the same dynamics, speed, texture, clarity and detail resolution... say as... many of the underrated speakers such as: Proac’s, or Legacy’s (especially the Aeris and Focus), or ATC’s, or Tannoy’s, or JBL’s, or Linkwitz Orions / LX521’s, or Quad ESL 57’s (divine when properly set up and amped), or even Maggies, or my little known favorite... the Wavetouch Audio Grand Tetons / Anteros (true giant killers).
Now... this is all in the context of 2 channel acoustic, jazz, classical, country sounds (i.e. guitar, piano, double bass, cello, violin, sax, trumpet, brushes on cymbals, etc., etc.).
Over-rated - Avalons - Flat, Boring, makes all music sound homogenous Martin Logan - I really want to like them, but the sound on more complex music always loses it's cohesion
Under-rated - Dunlavy (RIP) - people always focused on "cheap parts"The Living Voice - Amazingly fluid
The best I’ve ever heard...and i’ve heard a lot, was a $2,000 pair of AudioNote speakers. I think the ANe model. This was set up in Tyson’s Corner (DC area) in a place called Deja Vus audio. I believe he rebuilds older amps but could be mistaken about that. Anyway, I can’t honestly say these speakers were better than any others, fiat there was some nasalness, if thats a word, and a small amount of breakup that some would fault. They were connected to a $100,000 Audio Note amp which I’m sure provided most of the magic. But the sound was glorious. Never heard anything closer to live than I did that day. Vu ( the store owner) was gently proving me wrong in my opinion of speakers being the most important part of the audio chain. He succeeded with this demo.
i agree with everyone else that the biggest disappointment I have ever heard is McIntosh speakers. I would add to that list Bang and Olfsun. Granted they are more of a (life style) speaker, but I really wanted to love their Omnipolars. The MBL’s are simply amazing at creating a soundstage regardless of where you are in the listening room (the whole room is the sweet spot). I was hoping the B and Os would come close for much cheaper, but was hugely disappointed.
Of course, I’m sure some people love McIntosh and B&O, they are just not for me.
I always thought that the 15 ohm LS3/5A was way overrated. Same for the original Quad ESL. I know, that goes against HiFi canon but I've had both for extended periods, years actually, and they just didn't do it.
Underrated, well the Acoustat 2+2 was marvelous. Too big and heavy to keep but easy to drive and great to listen to. They seem to make nobody's list.
Overrated - all of your opinions on overrated speakers. Underrated - my opinion of how great Goldenear One.Rs and Refs sound at my house in my rooms driven by my components. :-)
Red Rose R3. Very colored sound due to suck-out between mid-range and ribbon tweeter. Did not sound natural or musical.
Polk RTi4. Rave Stereophile review, typical mid-if high frequency emphasis. Fatiguing to listen to without equalization to tame the high end.
Under-rated as used, too expensive new: PSB Imagine mini. Bargain on the used market. Liked so well bought second set. I use them as bedroom TV speakers where their diminutive size is a plus.
Overrated; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL, on a demo they hooted and buzzed at me, and got real confused. Partner with me said exactly the same. Following this demo immediately with Focal Electra 1038 Be which were several leagues above the ML, and I bought them. Not that I dislike electrostatic sound having owned Quad ESL 63's for 10 years and Cadence Aristas for a further 10, but the sound produced at demo by the ML's was really below expectations. Could have been the rest of the gear, but in common with most hi-fi demos they surround the gear you are interested in with top end kit.
You do realize that the MMGs are Magnepan's entry level speaker and cost $600/pair, don't you? You called them "top level speakers" and then proceeded to discredit them when compared to your Mission Cyrus 781 at $900/pair. Sure, the MMG owner may not have prepared his listening room correctly or even had them set up correctly, negatively impacting the sound, but Magnepans have traditionally been thought of as some of the best value speakers on the market, regardless of price, especially when paired with a sub. It's possible that I'm a bit biased because I bought a pair of 15 year old Magnepan 20.1s (originally $12,500) for $5,500 and absolutely love them, but I think the only speakers that can compare to them cost more than $20,000. This is the price point at which we begin talking about "top level speakers".
One of the most overrated speakers IMO is the Pioneer
SP-FS52 floor standers. The tweeter supplied with this speaker was of poor quality and it failed rather quickly when driven by an Acurus A200 amp and B&K PT3 preamp at far below rated input power. I replaced the substandard OEM unit with a Peerless replacement and these speakers sound so much better. In their as manufactured state they just don't deliver the goods as well as the reviews state.
The ADS L620 is my choice for the most underrated loudspeaker. I've seen comments regarding the combination of a 10 inch woofer to a 1 inch dome tweeter as a bad marriage because the mid range suffers. I say bull****. I've owned a pair of these loudspeakers for many years and I can say without a doubt they will best many new loudspeakers currently for sale today for excellent sound quality and clean tight bass.
Years ago, I purchased Alon 5s based on outstanding reviews and I owned them for several years. During that time, I was never "thrilled" with how they sounded, the way I sometimes was with my previous ADS L810s and B&W M803s. I kept working with Carl and upgrading the speakers with the bass driver upgrade, alnico midrange and tweeter upgrades, outboard crossover upgrades (same as Circe) but still, they just never sounded good to me. It took years before I realized the cause of my problems was probably me - based on my choices in partnering equipment and the types of music I listened to, and that the speakers were probably just not an appropriate design for my preferences. The Alons had the unfortunate combination of sounding best when driven by tubes yet needing a robust amount of power. I was listening to rock and blues while driving them with SS amplifiers. On one hand, some would probably say the Alons never had a chance to show what they can do, on the other hand some would say a properly designed speaker should sound good on a wide range of music, regardless of the type of amplification.
The point is that some of the speakers mentioned may have not lived up to their potential for certain owners because of issues with power, impedance matching, room acoustics, or something else, but not because the speaker is poorly designed. In addition, I now take reviews with a healthy dose of skepticism, since I have read many where the partnering equipment seemed inappropriate for the piece being reviewed and some where (amazingly) the reviewer even admits as much yet then tries to draw conclusions based on the discrepancies, i.e., "I drove the Theil CS7s with my flea-powered SET amplifier and they sounded super pure at SPLs that would not worry my next door neighbors in this thin-walled apartment complex." These threads are certainly interesting to read but folks should consider that one size does not necessarily fit all.
Sorry Larry just because Salk uses good drivers, they don’t necessarily compete with $20-30k loudspeakers.
We have heard Salks at both CAP and Axpona and they were nice not amazing in any way.
Personally we would take Wilson Vvettes, Rockport Atrias, Vimberg, Persona 7F, Legacy Aeris any day of the week.
At Axpona the Golden Ear Triitron 1R were blowing away most of the sub $10k loudspeakers, look at the reviews from Axpona we were not the only ones saying that most of the reviewers were.
My old DLK 1 pair had a more ' live' realism than many more modern, ' accurate' speakers I've owned. Paper driver, cts cone tweeter, real walnut cabinets..I dunno, some low tech magic.
I tend to evaluate "overrated" or "underrated" based on technology employed and quality of implementation rather than brand, advertising, popularity, etc.
It means little to me when someone names a particular brand is over or underrated without discussion of the implementation.
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