Cartridge loading has that effect. "Loading down" to 100ohms is very low impedance and gives a nice round warm full bodied sound but can go to far and be fat and congested. Increasing to 200 opened it up by in effect asking for less current from the cartridge. When you fall in love, stop. If you want even greater dynamics, detail, and presence you might want to risk increasing even a bit more. No harm no foul and you can always go back.
Once you're happy with that, which Origin Live arm do you have? If it has VTA on the fly you can get really amazing improvement dialing that in.
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In my setup the Hana ML with Sutherland 20/20 MkII LPS sounds better at 58/100. Table is MoFi UltraDeck. Although I admit I have only tried and didn’t like 200ohm load setting when the 20/20 was still breaking in. It sounded too full at 200, not as relaxed and engaging and was too much of a good thing, too busy sounding.
I can try 200ohm and see if it’s any different than what it sounded like in the beginning.
What really amazed me is the change in sound when I dialed in the overhang, azimuth, VTA, etc. using the Dr. Feichert Protractor. That was just mind blowing how everything just came together when properly set up.
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Millercarbon,
Origin Live - Silver MK4A 9.5" Tonearm with Mounted VTA Lifter.
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Free the music—lighten the loading.
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I just can’t believe the difference between the two settings. Every record I put on is a new discovery in sound that went previously unheard.
The improvement is not subtle, but palpable in just about every parameter
The music comes to life.
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yes, using your expensive high quality equipment properly/optimally can certainly aid in obtaining a high level of musical enjoyment
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The Silver is a nice arm. Comes with infinitely adjustable VTA, just not on the fly. With your Cearaudio VTA lifter however you now have on the fly VTA.
If correctly set up and already ballpark settings then you should be able to fine tune using the little VTA adjuster lever. Have you tried this?
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@rvpiano thanks for this thread! You encouraged me to revisit the 200ohm load setting. As I said earlier I didn’t like it initially when I first got the 20/20. Now with some break in time the 20/20 is a different beast. Completely different experience listening at 200ohm now. The images are sharper and more out into the room, snappier and quicker transients as well. Listening to the first track on “Kind of Blue” (Analog Productions UHQR), every instrument is more solidly defined in the soundstage. Percussion brushes are more detailed, there’s more air and presence overall. Bass has more texture.
Got same results listening to Heifetz playing Sibelius violin concerto as well.
Very nice.
As a side note, break in is a thing with the Sutherland 20/20. It opens up nicely though after about 100+ hours. Much easier to break in a DAC by just streaming 24/7. But the effort is worth it.
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Millercarbon,
I haven’t tried it yet.
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Audphile1,
I believe you had previously asked me about my settings. I was thinking of you when I decided to indicate them.
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Hahaha that’s right! And we both thought 58/100 was a sweet spot.
Glad you played around with the loading settings and posted your results. I’m thoroughly enjoying this cartridge/phono amp combination. Good synergy.
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When you do adjust VTA make very small adjustments. Pulling the lever towards you rotates clockwise and increases VTA. This raises the arm which results in a thinner more detailed presentation. Pushing the lever away rotates counter clockwise which lowers the arm for a fatter fuller sound.
Don’t listen for crude tone changes. That’s big VTA moves. This is fine-tuning. Assuming the arm is already close to where it should be.
But even if the arm is way off this is still the best approach. Let’s say the arm is way too high. But you have no way of knowing. 50/50 coin toss you guess right and pull the thing towards you lowering the arm and it sounds better. More body yet still plenty of detail. In that case you keep on going. Eventually one tiny adjustment (they should all be very fine adjustments) instead of getting fuller and better is ever so slightly bloated. Then back off half of whatever the last move was.
Then go back and forth smaller and smaller until either you run out of patience or stop hearing improvement.
But remember, 50/50. If by chance you lower and right away it sounds more bloated and sluggish then you went the wrong way. Same process only this time very small increases in VTA, which on your adjuster is counter-clockwise. At least according to the manual I read when you said what you have.
The main thing being this is all done by ear.
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Thanks for your detailed instructions.
‘I’ll give it a try.
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There is only one "right" SRA and that is 92 degrees. Not all records were cut at exactly 92 degrees but unless you want to drive yourself crazy it is the best average setting. Expensive cartridges are easy, as long as the headshell is parallel to the record you are good to go. Cheap cartridges unfortunately vary wildly from right on to defective. You have to look with a microscope and measure the angles another impossibility for most people. The most inexpensive solution is the Wally Reference but it assumes the cartridge was built correctly.
@rvpiano , If you think it sounds good now save your sheckles and get a decent cartridge.
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Millercarbon,
I gave it a try. Very subtle differences indeed.
I think I wound up where I was originally.
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It’s amazing when you discover what information is actually in the grooves and what you’ve been missing all this time.
I know the further up the chain you go there’s even more information to be found.
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1k ohms. Try it. I just got an AT33PTG/II and set it at 58/100. Tried it at 1k ohms and it really shines how. I tried ever setting the 20/20 offers.
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1k would be quite a bit snappier, dynamic and extended. Loading is big changes. VTA is more subtle fine tuning.
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@rvpiano Loading is really for the benefit of the phono section, not the cartridge. The industry standard for cartridge loading is 47,000 Ohms.
But the inductance of the cartridge is in parallel with the capacitance of the tonearm interconnect cable. The two together form an electrical resonance. With LOMC cartridges such as the Hana this can be 100KHz up to 5MHz (and so it can oscillate at that frequency); energy that high a frequency is RFI applied directly to the input of your phono section!
This resonance can have a lot of energy and it can overload the input of the phono section. This can result in brightness due to greater distortion and might also cause ticks and pops due to overload.
The better solution is to use a phono section where the designer took this phenomena into account. Then you may find that the 'loading resistor' really doesn't do all that much.
The 2nd-best solution is to use a 'loading resistor' of a much lower value than the stock 47KOhms. This detunes the resonance, preventing it from going into oscillation. By removing the RFI in this fashion, the phono section will have lower distortion and so won't be as bright.
The downside of loading was pointed out earlier- it can cause the cantilever of the phono cartridge to be stiffer since it takes more energy for it to drive a lower resistance. So I always recommend you use the highest setting possible where you don't get into tonality issues.
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Atmasphere,
Thank you for this information.
I just know I’m deliriously happy at the way it’s sounding now.
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@audphile1
could your cartridge have also broken in? i have the 20/20 too and it didn't seem to change at all after a few days.
i have had cartridges sound too hot and bright when new and 100 ohms sounded best. once they burn in they become less bright and then you can go to the 200 ohm setting. i have also increased the gain on some cartridges after they burn in. and yeah, the 20/20 is excellent.
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@avanti1960 I doubt it. The cartridge was at over 50hrs by time I got the 20/20. If it did break in some more, it would be a smaller change. I had this cartridge with the KC Vibe MkII and the system never sounded as dull, dry, muddy, congested and too busy, struggling with instrument separation and not at all engaging, as it did with 20/20 when I just got it. The 200ohm setting just didn’t sound right at all. So I set it at 100ohms and it kind of relaxed a bit so I left it there.
I was playing records all day every day while I was working (not listening for the most part, I have a Little Fwend that takes care of lifting the arm at end of each side so I don’t need to hear the record end to get to it to lift the arm).
Few days in I started noticing the improvement and before I made the switch to 200ohms and posted here the 20/20 was sounding amazing. So pretty sure it broke in.
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I finally figured out how to change the anti skating setting. A bit of problem to do. Again a change in this setting improved the sound noticeably.
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RV, good on you! As I've said or implied in other posts, it all matters. 2 things not to overlook are the VTA and how it is affected by record thickness, and the VTF which by the way affects the VTA. I used to have two mats, one for records of a standard thickness and one for records which were thick. The mats made for a standard height to set your VTA for so you didn't have to fiddle with VTA for every record you used. Be nice to have a tonearm which had a scale for VTA or one that you could adjust VTA on the fly. Enjoy your new stuff!
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Newbee,
Thanks for your good wishes.
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@newbee
You were so right in pointing out there are significant sonic changes available with manipulation of the turntable.
I’ve found great improvement with very slight changes of settings.
I never would have thought it.
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For every cartridge, dependent upon its internal resistance and inductance, there is a "critical" load resistance, below which (in terms of the ohmic value of the load resistor) its output starts to roll off noticeably and there can be a gradual loss of treble, as load R goes toward zero. For your Hana ML, the recommended load resistance is "greater than 100 ohms", not 100 ohms as recommended by your dealer or whomever you relied upon. This might indicate that Hana perceived that a 100 ohm load was not going to bring out the best in your cartridge, that at 100 ohms its output and treble extension would both be compromised. So changing to 200 ohms would be expected to effect a big improvement. As someone else suggested, you might consider further increases in load R, just for the fun of demonstrating the principle. But you shouldn't be surprised at your results reported here. At higher and higher load R values (load on cartridge goes down) there will be much less difference to be heard, because you are moving away from critical load value, but you might like some higher value of R even better than you like 200R.
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I did experiment with all the settings above 200 and found 200 to be the best.
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But I will wager that values above 200 were in any case better sounding than the original 100 ohms load. Or at least the flaws in SQ would be of a different nature, compared to 100 ohms.
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Yes, you’re absolutely right!
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