Well Tempered Labs Record Player, thoughts on a used one?

Many thanks.

@dean75 
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=well+tempered

Looking for a price guide to sell a little used WTT Classic with 2 tonearms.

Any ideas welcome

how does the amadeus compare to the old ’reference’ tt?

(very happy owner of an amadeus, just curious about the w firebaugh's old 'reference' table)

I love Well Tempered tables... I know them very well and have made clones of their arms for personal use on both my idlers. Both the older and newer designs are brilliant and DO punch well above their price point. I have had the WTT since buying it used in 1990, bought a WTRP used and another that I'm selling. Also bought the plinth of a WT Simplex off eBay cheap, built the golf ball arm for it via 3d printing (looks similar to a 9" Amadeus but with greater adjustability) and built a lower base for it so I could use use a WTRP bearing, spindle and platter. Added the WT DPS. ALL Well Tempered's are fantastic players and way easy to use.

They are just to different to compare in all honesty.
The zx7 is near the top of the food chain as far as cassette decks go.
It has extended highs and lows but still manages the neat trick of playing buttery smooth and sweet.

The 401 has very extended highs with present phono and cart and is more engaging , fast and dynamic. It is a quite vivid reproduction of music.

I am thoroughly enjoying both.

@uberwaltz,
How do you like the Garrard 401 compare to your Nak zx-7?

Lewm.
I did not go that route.
I considered that, a Lenco, mote upmarket Japan DD model but eventually purchased a Garrard 401 in a substantial plinth cw Micro Seiki MA505ls tone arm.
It is on my system page.

Uber, did you buy the WT, and if so what do you think of it? I usually keep my head down on WT tonearm questions, because I once had to mount a cartridge in a Reference version and grew to hate it. Also it seemed to homogenize the sound; everything sounded good but with the same sluggish coloration. I know I’m in a minority. It seemed way overdamped, and perhaps that was my fault.So perhaps my impression is to be ignored. Surely the Amadeus must be better than the Reference because it has many avid fans.

 I have recently inherited a Well Tempered Lab Reference TT
I am not interested in keeping it , not an Audiophile by any means and need to sell it.  It is hooked up with a Van de Hul Frog cartridge which I will remove and attempt to sell separate . In regards to the TT I am totally overfaced with the prospect of understanding how to disassemble , remove silicon , pack and put up for sale .  This was originally bought by my brother on Audiogon  used in 2008 for over $3K.  It has been of great service since then and used mainly for 78's and older recordings as in my brothers opinion that was the best set up for the older recordings and transport to CD .   Is it safe to transport in my car to a new location/person to help me with disassembly? 

^^^ On the "adjustments:"  Once the WT is set up, you can just leave it alone. I haven't adjusted anything over the last five years except for replacing a cartridge and adjusting VTA  and downforce for each of the cartridges, and I play a lot of records. 

Frank

I’m sure it’s great if properly adjusted. I had the original square motor model and, because I don’t like to spend time on adjustments (and really didn’t know how to adjust it properly), I’m sure it was not performing correctly. Finally got a Rega Planar 6. Probably not as good as a perfectly adjusted  WTT but I’m happy to spend my time listening rather than trying to adjust everything.  

Uberwaltz ...

I highly recommend a custom belt from Origin Live for the WTT.

Don’t worry about the arm. Once set up correctly, the WT is one of the best TTs out there, even those costing many times the money. There are a ton of mods that really improve things too.

On my Well-Tempered ... It is the original classic with the square motor. I’ve had it since it was new -- early 1990s.

Here’s a list of my mods:

1. Custom heavy brass clamp to dampen the silicone well.
2. Arm rewired with Cardas copper wire.
3. Cardas junction box for the female RCA jacks.
4. Custom machined brass counterweight on the arm.
5. One layer of shrink-wrap on the arm.
6. VPI record clamp.
7. Origin Live custom belt.
8. Perfect Path Technologies Alpha E-Cards along each side of the motor (four on each side).

The table sounded great when it was stock. Over the years, with all of the mods in place, it sounds pretty amazing.

Here are some owner reviews:

http://www.audioreview.com/product/analog-sources/turntables/well-tempered-labs/classic.html

Here’s a video that shows the heavy brass clamp around the tonearm well:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=chr-yo_gc&p=well+tempered+classic+turn+table+review#id=2&vid=e1b40c9f5fa0e4ec5fcb7276edbc4cdc&action=view

Here’s Robert Harley’s review on WT mods. Scroll down for the clamp mod:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/well-tempered-arm-more-rh

Frank

I believe you can get belts from Origin live. The square motor helped if belt stretched, you could just slide motor out a little to tighten belt. Round motor is contained so no sliding motor. If I can find his number I know a guy with a reference for $1500.

I owned a WTRP for a while, standard platter, black armtube, round motor. The arm is very versatile, as you can vary the depth of the silicone to accommodate different cartridges. I even put an armwrap on it and used it with a Denon DL103. I also put an extra half twist in the suspension lines to cut down on the anti-skating, which great improved the sound for high compliance cartridges.

My biggest issue with the WTRP was finding suitable belts. The cheap ones were too stretchy, and that caused both some speed variation and the occasional platter wobble that some talk about. The really good belts from George at Stanalog had no stretch and worked great, but they were $50 a pop and I believe George is out of business. Not sure if there's a current source for the good belts.

Bottom line is that the WTRP is awesome when it's hitting on all cylinders, but there are a lot of variables that have to be right. Definitely a rite of passage for all who desire to be educated in The Way of the Turntable.   :-)
If you get it and it doesn't come with manuals, I have them in PDF format and would be happy to email them to you.

was hoping mr_m would weigh in

;-)

have fun, enjoy the music for sure

I replaced a Spacedeck with the original Amadeus. I can say that the WT made the Nott sound broken.......

Oz

@mr_m 

Thank you for the input.

The one I am looking at has the paddle in silicon not the golf ball.

But I would think the family sound is the same and set up very similar.

Just getting my mindset wrapped around the whole idea and concept after knowing nothing but conventional designs.

Mind some would say my present Nottingham TT is odd when you have to spin the platter up to speed by hand as motor is very low torque. 

Might be a very interesting comparison.

Uber,

I have the WT Amadeus Mk.II, and love this tt. I realize the tonearm with its support doesn't look like much. This support, (fish line and golf ball sphere suspended in a cup of silicone) does a better job than most other turntable's expensive bearings. This type of arm suspension makes azimuth alignment a breeze, as it can be done on the fly. This tables' setup is quite easy once you understand how it functions. A very deceptive looking turntable that can compete with tables' three times its price. IMO. The platter spindle has only three tiny contact points in the platter bearing reducing resonances to vanishingly low levels. All in all, a good choice. Lots of reviews and material printed about this TT.

My largest concern is the tonearm and setup of same, I mean just the idea of hanging it from a bit of fishing line?

Maybe if I get my head round it I might try but definitely on the fence right now.

@sdv0983  Actually the 'WTA' Black arm is considerably different from the standard silver arm. The Silver arm ( stock) does not feature the one piece arm/headshell of the Black version- and has different tonearm cabling.

I do happen to have an original WTRP with an upgraded platter, which is called the black damped platter, which I purchased in 1992. The table is really phenomenal and has a wonderful, full sound. Adjustment can be a little finicky because any time you adjust something, you have to wait for the paddle in the silicone to settle, but we’re only talking a second or two. Azimuth is adjustable on the fly by twisting the little knob on top of the rear pillar, and the pillar can move up or down to adjust your rake angle, but not on the fly. I have never had a hum issue with several cartridges, including Grados, which are a great match. As far a what someone described as “platter wobble”, mine spins perfect. They may have been talking about the fact that the belt is necessary to keep the platter upright. By design, there is no upper thrust bearing towards the front right of the table, so if you push down on the platter in the front right corner, it will tilt. But then the belt will pull it back up. But this is no different than saying if you push down on a suspended turntable, it will bounce. It is part of the design and literally never comes into play when using it. I still have my original spindle oil in mine (27 years), but drained the damping silicone during a move. So I just purchased some Hudy 100,000 cSt silicone online for a couple of bucks and it’s as good as the original. I have never regretted buying it and have no intention of ever replacing it. The best recommendation I can give is that over 27 years, this is one of 2 pieces I never gave up (the other is a Music Reference RM5). So obviously I would say go for it. By the way, google “Well Tempered Record Player Art Dudley” and he did a nice review of it a while back. The only difference is that his had the black arm as opposed to silver, but they claim that was just a cosmetic change.

Thx Slaw.

Yep reading up is essential as is valuable input from all the great members here!

Hey buddy. I too had the jones for a Well Tempered tt for a long time. I'd take some time to research their history. I always wanted the Reference but never pulled the trigger.

I have a WTL Amadeus (bought used $1500 with a new motor) running their TLC MM cart, built a dust cap with acrylic from Home Depot for $35, it will be my TT until at least retirement.  +1 at $900.  PS I've read they mate well with London Decca carts.

Carp.
I have actually sold 3 TT so if I bought just one then I am still on the right side of the balance sheet so to speak!
Thank you to those who have replied so far , however my main concern is the setup of that tonearm, so very different to anything I have used before.

So well worth the asking price. An opera singer friend swapped his LP12 for a WT when they came out. WT had less detail, greyer background, huge soundstage and very lush full sound.

ANOTHER tt, Uber??!! Man, you are never gonna be ’done’ in this hobby! :)

That's the newer version of record player with round motor old had square. I don't think record player sounds any different than classic except arm was a little easier to adjust. Once arm is set and goo is at right level your good to go. There different platter will wobble  at start up but for under $1000 bucks hard to beat. If motor is good there's not much else to break. Audio circle has a special section for well tempered owners you could ask over there.

Agreed. I very much enjoy my Amadeus. 

i know two people w Amadeus and have heard one of the systems. Both owners love them. One has an issue as yet unresolved w hum , The other gets stellar sound.
certainly an unconventional but brilliant arm....
my sense is they punch far above weight pricewise.. IF no issues. ( like most used tables )