I'm mounting my turntable on the wall, and the shelf system is designed to span over 3 studs (and uses all 3). Since my studs in the wall are currently not where I want them to be, I'm just going to open up the wall and install new studs so my shelf can be installed exactly where I want it to be. My question is, should I just add new studs running vertically from floor to ceiling, or can I add 2x4s horinzontally between the existing studs that are 16" apart? I'm not concerned about cost or difficulty - I just want to know from a performance point of view, what's best to minimize vibration to the shelf?
If you are going to the trouble of opening the wall, blocking horizontally is an inexpensive addition to that job. Studs are cheap. You might as well, sure cannot hurt (I would at least block at the mid-point, min.). I would go 24” o.c, or go ‘whole hog’ and block at 16” o.c. as well.
You will wind-up with a very strong wall, and it will be done.
Thanks. Is there a risk that connecting the existing studs with horizontal pieces of wood would actually pick up/transfer more vibration? more coupling of studs etc .. ? I wish I understood this better. I saw another post where in older homes folks would even have beams installed diagonally in the wall. I don't know that I need to do that, but I want the best solution that minimizes vribration ...
Just install the new lumber horizontally as needed. Use at least 3" deck screws and pre drill pilot holes. If you are worried about vibrations, add more blocking above and below the location of the shelf.
Thanks. Is there a risk that connecting the existing studs with horizontal pieces of wood would actually pick up/transfer more vibration? more coupling of studs etc ..
No. I’m in the residential design/build business. Believe me, adding blocking will only add strength and minimize any vibration you might be concerned with. I doubt there will be any. Just adding mid-blocking adds a lot of strength to a 2x4 (I look at these calcs all the time). If you really wanted to ‘go crazy’, add 1/2” plywood to the opened area, but, you would then have add a new 1/2” layer of drywall to the entire wall. To be honest, that may be ‘over kill’, but it would leave no doubt 😁
I mounted my TT on a shelf, into the studs. Was great! Then, had new siding installed, and the hammering needed for the siding caused the table and the platform to fall to the floor! Arm broke, other parts broke. Yikes. Fortunately it was repairable, for about $900. It was/is a mofi ultra deck. Just a warning/heads-up for the future. But the studs-mounted shelf solved the feedback problems. Was a rec by Andrew Singer.
I have a similar set up though mine only uses 2 studs. I mounted it where the studs were and that forced my hand a little as they weren’t exactly where I was hoping thy would be but only by a couple inches. The one thing my audio dealer recommended, and therefore I designed around, was mounting my turntable to a foundational wall to minimize vibration. This has worked out extremely well for me. Realize this may not be an option for you but if it is it’s highly recommended. YMMV.
If adding studs horizontally, have each horizontal stud 'rest' on short vertical studs screwed to the existing vertical studs on either side. Then screw the horizontal stud to these extra 'shelf' studs. This will also give you some extra mass.
Just adding horizontal studs isn't ideal. You want some additional support.
You don’t mention how far off the stud location is vs desired mounting location. And as Feldman brought up, is this an interior or exterior wall? An exterior wall will be much more solid as an interior wall can still transfer foot fall. Another consideration is whether outlet boxes are on the side of the stud that you would be adding the new stud, also will you have horizontal runs of Romex wiring to negotiate. If your current studs are only a few inches off from desired location, would you consider a horizontal brace fastened to the wall and then mount the shelf to it. You could cut the length to have equally balanced extensions on each end if possible finish to match and it would appear to be part of the original design. It would also help to know the make of the shelf so we could see the design.
1- After installing additional vertical and horizontal studs, pack the space between all the lumber with sound absorbing insulation material. People have their preferences, one being Roxul Safe ’n’ Sound.
2- Then put up the sheetrock, and for a giant leap in vibration reduction, add a second layer of differing thickness (for a different resonant frequency profile. 3/4" and 1/2" is a good combination), with---most importantly---ASC (Acoustic Sciences Corp.) Wall Damp material between the layers. WD is a 1/16" thick viscoelastic material designed to absorb mechanical vibrations, and it’s effect is HUGE!
I have visited a listening room (that of Audiogon member folkfreak, in his Portland Oregon home) constructed with the complete ASC system (which includes materials that greatly reduce the transmission of vibrations through the building structure), and the walls were like stone. For those interested in isolation, folkfreak had his Magico loudspeakers sitting on Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums, a great product. The rest of his system was an EAR-Yoshino table with two arms and cartridges, a DCS Vivaldi digital stack, an ARC Reference pre (model 10 or 40, I don’t recall), and VTL power amps. Very, very nice.
Details on ASC Wall Damp are available on the company’s website. Very affordably priced, and very effective. Also great for DIY shelves, the WD placed between two layers of stiff material. Stiff materials often ring (ever rapped a piece of unsupported marble? Rings like a bell!), and WD makes them almost completely silent. As with walls, use different thicknesses for each layer, and even completely different materials. Stiff and quiet, every woman’s dream date. ;-)
It is possible to surface mount a separate wood panel, behind your 'shelf system'.
wide enough to catch only 2 studs, and use many anchors to sheetrock or plaster for the extended end. Then you have limitless horizontal locations to mount anything to the wood panel. Choose wood thickness relative to weight.
Or, wider, catch 4 studs if heavy TT? full width? Depends on decor, ....
btw, brackets can go 'up' behind the shelf, rather than down, objects on shelf in front of them. and you can drill extra holes in the brackets with less final visibility.
galpi, some of the advice you're getting here is a bit over the top. Open your wall in the area needed, and install some horizontal blocking between the studs in the necessary location. Use 2x6 KD lumber, which is dry. Screw it in place with some strong screws (not sheetrock screws). If you're concerned about transmitting vibration, use some construction adhesive between the existing studs and your new blocking. Additionally, before you open the wall, you might want to consider what's in it. Walk around to the other side, think a bit. This is just generic advice. Barring that, cut a small hole initially, look inside, make sure you're not running into a waste line, or the back of your electrical panel, etc. Good luck.
galpi, some of the advice you're getting here is a bit over the top.
I strongly agree. For goodness sakes folks, we are talking about a 3 stud width space. There are a number of very efficient ways to solve any vibration concerns.
You might want to consider using a french cleat (or a pair of them) to attach your shelving. Some people use this approach to hang kitchen cabinets. You'd avoid opening the wall this way. Plus, this would allow you to experiment more easily with positioning your shelving a little to the right or the left before finally fastening it down.
I've never understood mounting audio gear to the structural components of a house. Any door slams or such transfers vibration into the walls and ceilings.
If the wall you will be mounting to is not a load bearing wall please be very very careful. First time I put my tt on a wall shelf, the shelf was not mounted to a load bearing wall and it actually made matters worse. In my particular case that wall was very resonant (I found out); probably due to the pocket doors in the same wall at the opposite end of the room. Sure, the footfall problem had been solved, but I was then not able to listen to music at the same volume as before without inducing terrible feedback. I reconfigured my set up and moved the wall shelf to a load bearing wall and the problem was solved. Good luck.
I forgot to say, I personally would never mount a TT to anything except vibration free concrete, brick, block ... wood studs, you are essentially mounting to the face of a drum.
It would be a lot less work to just attach some thick pieces of wood to where the studs actually are located and then attach the shelf to the piece(s) of wood.
You should be blocking not adding studs. By code (building date will vary by state and/or municipality--your unrenovated 1860 Manhattan Brownstone will not suddenly have to be brought up to code), studs should be 16" apart inside to inside. Add a solid board to the studs vertically. This will provide you the solidity and stability you need. And anchor well. If you are in an earthquake-prone location, consult with a professional carpenter or a local AV interior or friend in the Pro AV integration market. This is no different than properly mounding a TV display to a wall.
I know an audiophile in St. Louis who went all out and sank shafts all the way to the bedrock below his house for his turntable. I am amazed by his dedication. Feedback from ones speakers into the turntable is a problem. I usually played the LP only once, and that at low volume and recorded the output to a Revox 77 reel-to-reel tape recorder. That way the LP lasts for a very long time, and no feedback. On the really valuable direct to disk LPs I did not play them at all. When I die I hope someone does not throw them away.
Bob Ludwig did a similar thing when he built his ( then new,) recording studio. He planted his Eggelston speakers on a deep concrete base, separated from the floor.
For anyone not having a concrete floor, and a tall enough crawl space under a suspended wood one, an old technique is to install 4 x 4 braces at the location of the table on the floor, from the bottom of the floor into the earth below. A concrete pillar for each is ideal, but even 4 x 4's slightly longer than the height of the crawl space, pounded into place, will work great.
With a firm support created, your choice of isolation under the speakers (springs, roller bearings, Townshend Seismic Pods) will finish the job.
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