Vinyl Buyers: The Premium Price Vinyl v. Cheap Vinyl Ratio
millercarbon, what town are you in? Day's drive from Chicago? I'm on my way! Hot stampers are everywhere but hard to pin down. Better Records is an interesting idea. Their labor and experience set the price. Reissues. It depends. Seems to me vinyl can be done right or wrong at any level. Identifying it is the chore! |
There are so many guys who rave about their favorite whiskey that even though I never found one I liked all that much I kept an open mind and keep looking. One time at Mike Lavigne's I take a sip of one or two and decide to try Angel's Envy Finished Rye. Next thing you know I am Gollum jealously guarding My Precious, warming it so as to maximize its intoxicating fragrance, swirling its sensuous savoriness until the optimal point of swallowing, lost in pleasure as it slithers its way down warming to where we become One. I can't promise it will be like that for you, with the Finished Rye or with the Hot Stamper. But I am sure you will never know until you try. |
Angel's Envy Finished Rye will get you an all day Hot Stamper demo. I know what you're thinking, this is gonna be one of those strain to hear it kinda things. Not even. This is more like can't believe this is so obvious. This is like you don't even need to compare, simply hear Sinatra-Basie and done. The worst one I have, in terms of the non-Hot Stamper coming close, is Silk Degrees. But with that one it is only close because the Hot Stamper has so much more surface noise. Sound-quality wise even that one is no-contest. The eponymous Fleetwood Mac, and Rumours. Nilsson Schmilsson and A Little Touch of Schmilsson in the Night, TP Southern Accents (another one so good no comparison necessary, you just use one hand to keep the jaw off the floor), Damn the Torpedoes, Honky Chateau, Don't Shoot Me, GBYBR, Tchaikovsky 1812, Paul Simon, some others I'm forgetting. You'll get your Finished Rye's worth. |
@millercarbon I'd love to hear your Hot Stampers! Would there be a 2 drink minimum cover charge to contribute to the $600 Mingus? :) I tell ya though, I am curious about them. But paying $300 on up for a standard issue will take a special record to me that I know the sonics of very well to even consider. |
Yeah, I've had trouble finding decent price good-sounding Who albums, both early pressings and reissues. One exception is this reissue of Quadrophenia https://www.discogs.com/release/3353094-The-Who-Quadrophenia Cheers, Spencer |
The whole Analogue Productions catalog is nothing but a playlist of Chad Kassem, his personal choice, it was confirmed in many interviews. Old gentlemens might find it awesome, but younger people will find it awful as Country, Rock, Blues, Mainstream Jazz and Classical is not for everyone (especially Country:) I’ve noticed that many of his titles available in 50 more different versions while some very interesting rare records (that will never be a part of Analog Production catalog) are not available at all and only made once in 500 copies ~40 years ago on a small labels somewhere in America, Africa, Colombia or Brazil. The business model of Analog Production is completely different from the business model of some small reissue labels. Chad is trying to make super mainstream records better (sonically) and he must sell many thousand copies to justify the effort. But musically it’s nothing special, everybody heard those titles before. Some small reissue labels try to spread the light on virtually unknown stuff, and they will press only 500 copies on a “7 inch single in a plain white sleeve. This is a different business model. It’s also a different style as those records are not something from old billboard charts. It can be unknown Caribbean Funk, Disco from Africa, Latin music from Colombia or Samba Rock from Brazil… that is attractive for younger audiences today and previously unheard of by anyone except for serious record collectors. Some records available only as original press (reissues do not exist at all). |
Speakers Corner (Germany) is doing some great reissues, the latest being Ry Cooder’s Warner Brothers debut. The Analogue Productions catalog is simply amazing, and their Beach Boys LP’s by far the best sounding versions ever made, by a country mile. I have original 1960’s "rainbow label" Capitols (terrible), DCC reissues (mastered by Steve Hoffman, and pretty good), and some later Capitol pressings (US, UK, Japan), all of which I no longer need. The AP Tea For The Tillerman is an audiophile delight, far better than the Island original, even the "pink label" pressing. For a great pink label Island, look the second Traffic album. One under-acknowledged group of LP’s are the "swirl-label" Vertigos. I can’t speak about their Black Sabbath LP’s (which reportedly "rock" ;-), but the Manfred Mann Chapter Three album (’69 iirc) is fantastic (musically and sonically). If you like English Rock/Jazz fusion (I as a rule don’t, this being the sole exception), keep your eyes open for a copy. The Mobile Fidelity titles introduced after the company’s purchase by Music direct are in general good, though there are exceptions. The older pre-MD MoFi LP’s should in general be avoided, as Stan Ricker had a signature sound he was after, featuring bloated bass (he played upright). The MoFi Beatles LP’s are not good. Music Direct hired Tim de Paravicini (EAR-Yoshino) to completely redo the MoFi mastering chain (he had previously done it at Pink Floyd's London recording studio), and you can hear the fruits of his labours. If you think non-audiophile labels care that much about the sound quality of their LP's, sorry, you are mistaken. There are also a number of non-reissue labels making great records containing new music, number one being Acony Records, owned by Gillian Welch and David Rawlings. |
The market share of vinyl in new recordings is driven to a large degree by willingness of vinyl buyers to pay premium prices. Nevertheless, there is a huge pool of cheap vinyl out there; records that sold millions so there’s hundreds of thousands of copies on the market and on down. To listeners who buy a lot of vinyl these days, what is the ratio of your budget between premium price/collector price albums vs. low price albums? In the world of vintage vinyl DJs & Record Collectors it’s easy to make popular previously unknown vinyl. Public podcasts and even youtube channels (where people post and play their discoveries) are very popular and watched worldwide by many thousands. When a certain Rare and Unknown record was played by a BIG record collector or deejay other collectors immediately put this record in their wantlist and start looking for it, auction prices go up as the result of rising popularity of previously unknown records. The fixed prices on discogs also goes up (sometimes they are crazy). Every seller nowadays can simply check price statistics on discogs or on popsike.com (if it’s an auction). They don’t want to sell you this and that for $5 when market value is $100 and so many younger collectors (especially from Japan) are happy to pay more to get it quickly. So it’s always important to discover music, to find something unknown before it will be popular among collectors. Then a chance to buy it for nothing is much higher. Problem with audiophiles is that they want a classic albums (they don’t want to discover music), they want a well know classics, recorded on major labels by internationally renown artists. Look at the Jazz albums for example, the prices are already high on that type of music for almost every album from the 50’s and so on. Record collectors are capable to discover music from different continents in different genres. They are looking for UNKNOWN stuff, this is the only reason why some good records can be very cheap - because they are unknown (google will not show you much about them, they are not on youtube and you can’t listen to them). A typical audiophile re-issue label are not interested in unknown stuff, they want to reissue an LP that they can quickly sell in a huge quantity, this is why you can see ONLY classic titles in Rock, Jazz whatever popular. This is extremely boring in my opinion! They can only "sell you" a higher quality of the same well known albums, nothing new. And they want premium prices for the quality, even if the album is boring as hell and every dog have heard it million times. This is why a second hand vinyl market is much more interesting for people who’re looking for something interesting and unknown, it’s about new discoveries, original pressing can be in a perfect quality (but not always). I just buy what I like on original pressing (mainly from the 70’s), I don’t care about audiophile reissues because 99% of what they re-issue is boring as hell (and often more expensive than original). At the same time I can pay premium prices for some Very Rare Originals with amazing music on them, they will cost more in the future if the music is good (reissue or digital will not affect the price for original press anyway). |
I have learned from experience and almost never buy audiophile reissues of any kind any more. Not after hearing Hot Stampers! Come over some time vinylshadow and hear for yourself. Had a guy one time wanted to do the comparison. He likes Fleetwood Mac Rumours so played him that first on a really nice vintage original. Sounds great and I can understand why people think they have their own Hot Stampers. I have the Nautilus half speed mastered reissue, no point playing that it is digitally remastered making it the worst of the lot. Then I played him an audiophile reissue 45 that is even better than my vintage pressing. At this point he says, "That is gonna be awfully hard to beat." "With both hands tied behind my back," I replied. Having Hot Stampers I hardly ever play these other copies, it was actually hard for me to put up with this level of quality, but worth it to demo I guess. So then I put on my White Hot Rumours. Afterwards Mike admitted now he can understand why I say it is better to have a few of these than a pile of lesser stuff. Crazy expensive, but crazy good too, so totally worth it. Last time I saw the Mingus on there it was a White Hot for I think $600. Awful lotta money. But then I have a record it is a real treat to play, something I will never hear anywhere else. When people come over you should see the way they lean in, captivated by that Hot Stamper sound. That never happens with the $35 reissue. Come and listen. You will see. |
Until recently I bought ~ 10 used originals / 1 new release or reissue. Lately, the Tone Poets, Blue Note Classic Series and other ALL analog reissues have me leaning in. IMHO, the success of these series and similar are the greatest trend in the hobby. BUY THEM WITH GUSTO! To paraphrase Norman Maslov & Michael from Dusseldorf on youtube this week, just imagine if Don Was or some other big wig at BigRecordCo leans in we could be looking at similar series of Atlantic, Epic, A&M, etc. 70s rock albums, That is what I'm dreaming of...Cheers, Spencer |
My newer pickup of Lou Reed Transformer on Speakers Corner is fantastic and a modern pressing. So, I don't think the adage of "older pressing are better". Plus, modern music by smaller artists on labels that care about their output is becoming more prevalent. Maybe not One Step levels, but definitely very nice. When I put on a record, I'm ok with almost seeing the artist perform in the room and don't always need to know what color his shirt on the stage is. |
@ghdprentice , exactly my point. I have compared reissues with originals with digital files and as far as I can tell, using electrostatic speakers, it is a toss up. It depends on the quality of the pressing and the mastering. As far as digital is concerned going in and out of 24/192 is totally invisible. If a modern master is done correctly from a digital file it can be better than the original. It depends entirely on the engineer. Audiophiles were initially smitten by Telarc's early recordings. Vinyl adds "something" to the experience. You can call it distortion or whatever but it is like catnip to the human brain. Playing records via a digital front end takes absolutely nothing away from the experience. Pressings of popular music in the 70's and 80's, even new ones can be pretty bad. Modern pressings made with care can be better, quieter. Paying $300 for an old used record when you can get a modern copy for $24 dollars IMHO is not a great way to collect music when you could have gotten 12 records for the price of one. At the worst, if the music is good, the difference between an old pressing or a reissue is trivial. The reissue may even be better. When you can get used records for $5 from a collection you can fish through picking out the ones that were handled with care (no finger prints or scratches) it might well be worth it. I won't do it but I can understand the attraction. $300? No way Jay. |
millercarbon is right about better records. Their prices WILL blow you away. Crazy. But I’ve never bought a record, nor will I, from there so I can’t comment on value. What I’ve learned through the years is to research the best mastering of a particular record. Hoffman forums will help with that. Sometimes a remastered LP sounds a ton better than an original. Sometimes vice versa. If you like jazz, buy Kevin Gray remastered Tone Poets and Blue Note Classic records for $25-30 each. Buy from Amazon as they have a great return policy on any defective records. I buy a ton of remastered records, some inexpensive some not. But you need to be selective about it. Analogue Productions sells a lot of remastered LP’s for reasonable to slightly higher prices. Some they remaster and press with their company QRP, others are from good companies that do their own remastering and have outside pressing plants. Discogs has sellers selling every kind of music. You just have to be certain of proper grading. If you are looking for $5 used LP’s, sign up for Steve Hoffmans Forum and scan the classified ads. You’ll have a lot to choose from. You can usually count on proper grading and fair prices. Jeff Beck Wired is one of my favorite albums. If you can, buy the Analogue Productions 45 rpm sets. Unbelievable. And their Blow By Blow 45 set is even mo' better. |
I was referring to overseas shipping, not domestic, which is no sweat. For kicks I tried a few artists I’ve bought LPs of by mail on the linked site, and found none of them: Trio Los Panchos Compagnons de la Chanson Owen Brannigan Harry Secombe (singing not Gooning) Malcolm McEachern Peter Bellamy You will not blame the domestic seller, I expect. These can be fairly commonplace overseas, but not here. The overseas shipping ask can be three times the cost of the record. |
I mostly buy reissues, depending on the label, to replace an LP I have but is getting noisy. But not too many this past year so maybe 10 to 1. Too many of the used I’ve bought recently look good but sound bad, so I’m getting really picky. Feels weird returning a $5 record, weirder yet tossing it out! I’ve got a short list of used I’m on the hunt for, prefer to find them in person and avoid web sales. I’ve been looking for Peter Frampton’s Wind Of Change, probably sold a gazillion copies, why is it so hard to find? In desperation I even checked Better Records, doubt if I could pay $250 though. But it gives me an excuse to get out and hit the record store, that’s never a bad move. |
I'd love to have Mingus, Mingus, Mingus, Mingus but they hardly ever have it. https://better-records.com/search?q=mingus |
usedtobuy- Excellent sounding LP's are still cheap depending on genre and where you shop. "I bought on eBay Jeff Beck's Wired for $5" Great album jasonbourne52. Beck's cover of the Mingus tune-"Goodbye, Pork Pie Hat" is my fave. That album rises above the typical "not so great" sonics for R&R albums. I have this pressing. Cheap and plentiful in the bins, https://www.discogs.com/release/585140-Jeff-Beck-Wired |
If you are worried about shipping try https://better-records.com they have free shipping, and the prices will blow you away! |
Almost exclusively used early pressings. I've bought some reissues of 90's alternative and grunge to have it on vinyl, can't say I've been terribly impressed. I have a fair sized collection of 50's and 60's jazz, almost all early pressings, about 1/3 mono, and a large collection of original if not early classical, and a large collection of 50s - 80s rock/pop/punk/new wave/motown/r&b etc. |
