@pindac why don’t you just name a cartridge you’re talking about? If you upgrading cheap Denon 103 with Conical stylus to Advanced profile on the same cheap aluminum cantilever it will be a huge upgrade in sound quality. But it will never happen if your original cartridge already have advanced cantilever and stylus. |
I am a convert to having a Cartridge Treated by a Third Party Service. This has come about through personal experiences as well as having a interest and attempting to learn a little about MC Designs and reasons why certain materials are adopted into the designs. I have also been able to compare my owned Third Party Treated Cartridge to the Original Model, 'from a Listening Point of view only', the Third Party Service Treated Cartridge was delivering at a noticeably different and improved level when compared to the Original Model. The good thing for the Comparisons undertaken, is that both Cartridges were mounted on the same Head Shell Model and used on the same Tone Arm and TT and Support System. This will allow for identical environmental influences on the Replays. There are differences to be considered as follows: 1, The Third Party Treated Cartridge had about 100ish ( Quite Accurate) Hours of usage and was with a Short Period of time exposed to the Ambient Environment, 2, The Original Model was said to have about 300+ (Not Entirely Proven) Hours of usage, as well as having been exposed to the Ambient Environment for a much longer period of time. 3, IMO, the longer a Cartridge is left exposed to the Ambient Environment the more it is becoming contaminated with a unwanted collection of Particulate on the working parts, and it seems there will be a time when these contaminants can be a impedance to the overall performance of the Cartridge. (I have no real proof of this) What is known is that both owners were sure in their formed views the Third Party Treated Cartridge was with a very desirable SQ and was a improvement over the Original being compared against. My Purchase of a Donor MC and the Third Party Treatment was at a lesser cost that purchasing the Original Model as a New Purchase. The risk taken by myself was that the Donor Cartridge could have been rejected for a rebuild by the Technician and the Cartridge Cost and Inspection fee would have been to produce a 'no avail' outcome. I have followed a Enthusiast Blog produced by a Cartridge Builder. There are very nice Photo Records of the Deconstruction and Reconstruction of the Cartridges being worked on. What is off additional interest to me as a content within this Blog, is that the Technician is claiming that many Cartridge Brands are all using the same internal materials as parts. The Companies are producing the Sonic Differences for their Models are being achieved by the following: 1, Coil Wires used with differing amounts of Windings. 2, Different Gauges for the Metal used as Coil Wire. 3, Different Metal Types used as the Coil Wire. I will also add that a Cantilever Material, as well as the Cantilevers Length and Set Up Angle, along with the Cartridge Body Design will contribute to the Cartridges Uniqueness in the Presentation Produced. I am on board with the Enthusiasts Blog report that there are commonly used materials being seen as the Parts in use to produce a Cartridges Internal Structure. With this in mind, it does not concern me if a Adept Technician is used as a Third Party Service to overhaul a Cartridge that is wanting. Maybe a List of Cartridge Brands can be compiled to show would be owners, Cartridges that share a common material assembly for the Internal Structure. It might help with seeing through the Mystique of the Hype through the Advertising. In a nutshell, we are going to sell you a 'Bently', but would prefer it, if it was not known that a Ford / Mazda will be used under the Body Shell. I at present have another MC Model Purchased to undergo a Similar Third Party Treatment in keeping with my one in use at present. I have been offered a Design for it that is almost to my wish list. I am yet to have the MC Inspected, so the Punt, has still got a few Hurdles to be cleared before the outcome is seen as worthwhile. There are a few HiFi ideas on a bucket list that will be my Post COVID Projects, off which this is to be one. |
Steve at VAS has done an awesome job for me repairing a half dozen high-end carts and counting. everything from a re-tip to cantilever/styli replacement, re-tensioning suspensions and fixing dead shorts. Wow, that’s amazing, you don’t want to deal with original cartridge manufacturers/designers for a proper rebuild, you have someome else, right? I assume you like new cartridges but you don’t want to buy a new cartridges from the dealers even if nearly all manufacturers simply change worn cartridge for a brand new one via their dealer (instead of re-tip/rebuild) for a special price. Because you have someone else who can fix broken cartridges cheaper with different materials it’s OK for you. One question: why all your cartridges required re-tip, cantilever/stylus replacement, re-tensionin? Are we talking about quality high-end cartridges here or something else? Do you use them so hard? @saburo this thread has been very helpful. how close to "new" or "original" can a rebuild get? have some of you found your carts to sound better than original versions? thank you. @c_cocobean Do you know any cartridge designer who will post on audiogon? Below is audiogon post from Jonathan Carr who is internationally renowned cartridge designer (maybe you know Lyra cartridges?). In my opinion his thoughts about cartridge re-tipping process is much more valuable than all the post in this thread. Do yourself a favor (read his post on audiogon from 2013 below): *** "Changing only the stylus will alter the sound less than if the cantilever material is changed. When a cartridge is designed, the designer will consider the moving mass (sum of the stylus, cantilever and coils), the resonant character of the cantilever, and the (sonic) propagation velocity of the cantilever (affected by the cantilever’s mass and rigidity), then choose the suspension and dampers accordingly. If you change the cantilever material, you are effectively throwing the original designer’s calculations away. There is much more (far more than what I have written above) to rebuilding a cartridge than affixing a new stylus or altering the cantilever. In over 30 years of involvement in the phono cartridge industry, I have not seen one retipper who has presented the entire story, who has effectively said "Here are the all of the considerations. Here are the cons as well as the pros. Make a wise choice that is best for you" ... " (J.Carr, 2013) *** |
Don't do it. Never allow a 3rd party re-tipper to touch any cartridge lest you become the laughing stock of your peers here and on all forums where these grand poobahs of phono cartridge wisdom reside. Those proclaiming 100% positive experiences with re-tippers are nothing but shills and never buy anything new anyways, this hobby can do without them. If you think your newly re-tipped cartridge will sound better than new then you are sorely mistaken. skilled practitioners employing modern methods, materials and potentially better styli profiles never advanced the art and whose efforts will never be accepted as an "improvement." Phono cartridge design is a PRECISE science with protocols fierily adhered to. Such information re exact specifications of processes and materials are cloaked in extreme secrecy and guarded with the same doggedness as the recipe for Coca-Cola and WD-40 but to name but a few. Yes, a 3rd party re-tipper should NEVER be considered other than by those who can care less about vinyl replay and music in general. Don't be a douchebag by pretending you got a deal or 'saved money' because you didn't. WHEW! now that I got that off my chest I feel SOOO much better. Steve at VAS has done an awesome job for me repairing a half dozen high-end carts and counting. everything from a re-tip to cantilever/styli replacement, re-tensioning suspensions and fixing dead shorts. He's a miracle worker and my go-to guy. I heartedly recommend his services! |
I have been sending my Koetsus to Van den Hul for decades. I lived in NYC for 45 years, and have been living in the Hudson Valley for 3, and though I am now minutes from Soundsmith, he is not cheap, in fact he is far more expensive than sending it overseas including shipping. And I find him difficult to work with. Is anybody in a position to compare the quality of Steve's work to Van den Hul's? Has anybody sent a Koetsu to Steve, and is able to describe the change in the sound characteristics, if any, before and after repair? Thank you all in advance. |
Actually my example had two dead shorts in the same coil. Steve thought it looked like a huge static blast or similar as there was evidence of black charring as well. please note I bought it used and obviously it had been WELL used as it was dead in one channel on arrival. I was extremely pleased that Steve could repair and return to service for me. |
Steve at VAS is fantastic, he re-built a EMT Cartridge for me last year that another reputable cartridge servicing shop said was un repairable. It's now back to its former glory. This year he rebuilt a Benz Glider for me - which was turned down by the importer for repair. Steve is the go to guy for cartridge repair, highly recommended. Good Listening Peter |
Upgrade report: VAS Steve upgraded VPI scout master motor, JM9 inner wiring in arm and junction box, new VAS Nova 0.4 mv version. The surface noise is zero to none. Very very quiet. Cymbal sounds very fast, clean, real, detail, like real metal to my ear. Cello sounds woody, powerful, deep, and focus. Vocal voices are very realistic, relax, thick, and present. Channel separation and image is wide, accurate, and 3 dimensional. |
Steven is a paragon of integrity. I contacted him to fix my Sumiko Blackbird about a month ago. Elsewhere, I have been quoted $1,000 for the retipping. His quote was almost a quarter of that amount. He called me to offer his own cart VAS Nova as a replacement. I had no use for the dull Blackbird anymore (who would pay the grand if a new Blackbird cots just a measly $200 more?). He ships his Nova to me. It gets lost in shipment (USPS refuses to acknowledge it is lost, it simply says "out for delivery" for a month). A less honest seller would have said tough luck, I spent my time and my parts, not my fault USPS lost it. But Steven promptly created a new cartridge and shipped it again at his expense. It is being broken in , but I already hear details I have not heard before even with the $1,200 Sumiko Blackbird. Outstanding seller! Will never buy or repair a cartridge anywhere else. |
Steve made me a special custom low output (0.40mv) cartridge with a micro-ridge stylus. It sounds fabulous and is one of the best bargains around. I then damaged the cartridge when trying to mount it on a different table, by touching the tiny wires in the open body, resulting in one channel going out. Steve repaired it for me and even put additional wooden side protectors to preempt by butterfingers doing it again, for free. So impressed, I sent a stock DL-103 to him for an open body conversion; his price for the job was about the same as what it would cost for a wooden body on eBay. The man is a genius and his services are super affordable. |
Hey guys. I just made Denon DL-103 in an Ebony body and convert the coil for Mono LP. I posted a recording and few pictures on my Facebook page. The cartridge is phenomenal for the mono records and very easy to listen to without it getting boring. If anyone is interested in redoing their 103 body when the retip their cartridge with me, please don't hesitate to ask. If you are a lover Mono LPs and are looking for an affordable Mono MC cartridge to play around with or try out, this is a very fun cartridge to listen to. https://www.facebook.com/VASnyinc/ |
I was in contact with Steven last night re an old mc cart I was considering buying that needed work. He looked it up online (ebay sale) and advised it would probably not be cost effective which I thanked him deeply for. A few minutes later he emailed me again with suggestions of good to go mc carts same as the one I was looking at! Talk about above and beyond the call of duty, this was incredible as obviously he would now not be doing any work but gave his time and effort to help me out anyway. No hesitation in recommending Steven to anybody. |
My Transfiguration Temper Supreme lost it's tip somewhere between Seattle WA and Las Cruces NM in the back of a U-haul truck. I discovered the problem during unpacking. That was Not a happy day. I've had it stored away for over a year in the original box until just recently when I heard about Steve. Shipped it off to him for just an examination, cleaning and a new tip. To say that he did a good and quick repair would not do justice to the quality of his work. I know that the cartridge is now performing better than it was when I packed it up in Seattle and I am very certain of that, I am a very satisfied customer and highly recommend him. I would go to him as a first choice if I needed any work in the future. |
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I decided to send my Denon 103R to him for modification. He removed the body, mounted it on a stainless steel plate and added an aluminum cantilever and line contact stylus. It sounds nearly as good as the REF (at 4-5 times the price). I had an accident, bent the cantilever; he fixed it and had it back to me in a week! He has my Benz now, and I am looking forward to what he can do with it. Highly recommended! I bet every retipper can upgrade a cartridge designed in the '60 like DL103 (aluminum cantilever, conical tip), but i doubt every re-tipper can upgrade Benz or some other advanced cartridges of today. You said your Benz has not returned yet, but you already recommend this vendor, strange. |
I have a Benz REF with sagging cantilever. Since Benz has become pretty much unobtanium(at least in US), I was looking for options for repair/trade. I saw Harry Weisfield's reviews of Steve's work on a VPI thread(Steve is a neighbor of VPI). As a test, I decided to send my Denon 103R to him for modification. He removed the body, mounted it on a stainless steel plate and added an aluminum cantilever and line contact stylus. It sounds nearly as good as the REF (at 4-5 times the price). I had an accident, bent the cantilever; he fixed it and had it back to me in a week! He has my Benz now, and I am looking forward to what he can do with it. Highly recommended! |
I found Steve on Ebay while searching for a retipping service for my Sumiko Blackbird. The poor tired bird has been singing rather dull lately. The price Steve gave me was more than reasonable. I sent him a few pictures. He replied the cantilever looks OK, suggested a couple of more expensive options that were just a hundred more. I found him on facebook, gave him a call. Sending him the cartridge next week. Judging by the feedback here his work will be outstanding and the price is just a quarter of what Needle Doctor quoted me. Not to hijack this thread, I am thinking of switching from a Pro-Ject Phono Box DS+ to a combo of Schiit Mani and Swagman Linear Power Supply. The Mani gets rave reviews online, much better than the DS+. Is that a worthwhile upgrade? |
Yep, as Frogman sez, @slaw these things are monsters in the tracking department, not just in name. And even though the re-do I bought from Steve isn’t using the original cantilever, its compliance is more ’medium’ than ’high’ which also inspires confidence in handling. Still breaking in, but it is a very impressive cartridge--I will be surprised if it delivers the texture and tone of the Airtight in the midrange- it still sounds a little ’light’ in tone to my ears (this is personal take, given my preference and system) but in other respects, it is a better performer: tracking, as mentioned, and in the unraveling of detail without sounding bright. Hell of a cartridge, and in this day and age of 15k dollar top tier cartridges, an insane bargain. (Disregard Crazy Eddie selling style). :) |
If anyone needs more info or feedback on my service, I originally started out on audiomart or you can look at my facebook page for more of my recent repairs (vasnyinc). https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649398620-phono-cartridge-repair-service/ |
@frogman You’ll need to send me a few pictures of your cartridge. I usually do not like to glue styli onto cantilevers because it will not last as long. However, I can still install a new boron line contact based on the info you provided about your cartridges. Or I can repair each one like I did for whart, using a microridge with aluminum cantilever. |
Thanks all for your responses and for sharing your experiences with Steve. Steve, we spoke briefly on the phone and I was left with the impression that you are knowledgeable and would be a terrific person to deal with. A couple of things were still not clear to me from our conversation, so perhaps all here would be interested in further clarification: One of the cartridges that we discussed in our conversation is my Monster SG2000 which needs a new stylus. The original boron cantilever and suspension seem fine to me. Would you be able to keep the original cantilever and attach a new micro-ridge profile stylus? This would be my preference. If a new cantilever is necessary, can you replace with a boron cantilever? Same scenario for my Shelter 901 (different tip profile). Thank you! |
Absolutely. I'm currently running an Accuphase AC2 which I purchased without a stylus on it off ebay. I had another re-tipper re-work that cartridge about 4-5 months ago with a Namiki boron cantilever/microridge stylus combination and it is a beautiful cartridge. Similar pedigree to your Monster-from the same (Zyx) designer. Have a little bit more into it than your Monster but not much. About $650, which is chump change for cartridges any more it seems. I don't feel any need to move further with cartridges on the stereo front but I may do some modifications to an AT 33 Mono that I have here in terms of putting a slightly more exotic stylus profile (and possibly cantilever) on it to try and supercharge it. Steve seems to have a stellar reputation; it is great for all of us that might want to have cartridge work done to have an option to go to him. |
Original cantilever was boron, maybe diamond dusted or something, new cantilever is aluminum. Don’t remember the stylus profile offhand. I suspect Steve will build you whatever you want- the materials cost of boron may be higher but it’s still within the range of a few hundred bucks, which is not a vast difference in price when you are talking about high end cartridges today, where the norm is around 10k dollars and the uber cartridges are offered at 15k plus retail (I know, nobody pays full boat, but still). Worth exploring. |
Hi Bill: I don't need another cartridge right now but I have to admit that I was watching that one that Steve had online for sale LOL. The price was pretty attractive I thought ;) I believe Steve retipped that with a FG stylus but I am curious: do you know what the original cantilever material (info online is somewhat sketchy) was and if Steve changed the cantilever? It looked like aluminum in the photos when he had it online. Regardless of what has been done with it, I would expect it to be a very high value cartridge in terms of performance vs. current cartridge offerings at todays' prices. |
I just got a cartridge from Steve this week as a stopgap- my go to has been Airtight, and i'm curious about stone-bodied Koetsus in my arm, but i reached out to Steve to supply me with a rebuilt Monster Genesis 1000- very different cartridge in tonality from the Airtights- but thing arrived fast with all the necessary mounting hardware and though my arm wasn't conducive to an older style nut and bolt set up given the additional mounting plate to add mass to this Monster (4 grams without the additional plate), I finally got it mounted, dialed in and singing. (Still in break in mode but this thing tracks like a Motha and is very resolving though a bit lean). Steve was readily available to address my mounting issues, and easy to work with. Trust. |
Steve did an amazing job fixing my VPI Traveler's arm bearings that were defective, and even VPI could not repair it. He replaced the damaged Sapphire bearings with Ruby bearings and it works like new. His charges were surprisingly low given what he did. As part of this repair package Steve also crafted a VAS cartridge for me, which was an open-bodied Denon DL-103 but with a Micro Ridge Stylus. This cartridge, even without breaking in, sounds incredible. I couldn't recommend Steve any higher, and would encourage you to try his repair services, or the open-bodied DL-103 conversion. |
