Dear @dogberry : " try repairing some Decca cartridges! "
I don't own a Decca cartridge but you can ask to this retipper ( @needlestein that is the same gentleman I recomended to you for your beloved C. ) that is a very good alternative and in the next link you see his perfect " job with some of my cartridges ( I sended 10 cartridges. ) where I ask to change only the stylus and in the pictures you can see that both channels measured dbs are exactly the same and this is not easy to achieve when even today top cartridges ( some models ) comes with not centered stylus that's a must to have that way:
As has my Kontrapunkt b, as a rebuild version and having a WRD fitted as part of the rebuild, been a very worthy competitor to the PW Windfeld.
Ortofon keep certain Model Ranges from their Cartridges voiced very similar, as they are using a continued technology and specific design, that only really differs when a new material is discovered to be added to supersede another material.
@dogberry From discussions had with a Free Lancer who is known to have been involved in the production of the 'PW' Windfeld. The Windfeld and Cadenza Models were released in very close proximity to each other.
A recollection of the discussions had is that Ortofon are very active in their R&D into the Damper Materials that are selected to be used, their main area of interest is the WRD System, and derivatives of this end up in Cart's as a Trickle Down range of models.
I would suggest the Kontrapunkt C is, as a result of certain interfaces, is with a design that is using a particular damper type, that shares a similarity to the MC Jubilee WRD, that was reported at the time to be the latest cutting edge design for this design element.
The release of the Jubilee to Kontrapunkt C are Five Years separated.
I am quite familiar with witnessing the practice from a Third Party Service, where the insitu damper is reorientated to ensure the natural degradation of the Damper Material is positioned so that it has no impact, or the least impact on the Cart's function. Note: 'no impact' is questionable as UV is known to have a substantial derogatory impact on the Damper.
There are individuals spuing out the merits of Cart's much older than your K'c. There is the likelihood these Cart's Dampers are shot and are remaining in use, or discovered shot and replaced with a equivalent part, not original and certainly not meeting the Spec' of the original part, it seems the Cart' Model or unique item belonging to the Cart' Model is enough to have the critical dampers unavoidable failure in performance overlooked.
My experiences with Ortofon Cart's of varying purchase values and build versions over the past years, leads ne to suggest the Original Silver Coils, and Original Damper Type are very likely to be responsible for the sonic that is so attractive to yourself.
Ortofon have made sure the Verismo Model, that has a New Discovered Damper Material is very noticeably made known in their advertising. The pursuit of Damper Tech' is very much in keeping with what I was given as a description about where the Company invests in technologies to be utilised.
As a result of the MC Century being Five Year released and no Trickle Down Cart' Models released. With the Verismo being released in 2021, it is this model I was suspecting to be the one that has the Trickle Down Model Cart's released, if the Kontrapunk release is used as a guide, there does seem to be a window of opportunity left for this to happen, the sticking point it the Cadenza Range and Verismo are both using the same Coil Wire, which will mean a New Range and Cadenza are most likely to be very similarly voiced.
The Jubilee > Kontrapunkt (Silver Coil) and PW Windfeld > Cadenza (Aucurum - Copper Coil) are very easily separated as a voicing by Ortofon, as the Coil Wire inuse is quite different from the outset.
Got my Ortofon Kontrapunkt C back today, with a new FG2 stylus. I had replaced it with its supposed linear descendant, a Cadenza Bronze, but it never sounded the same. Happy to have Steve put me back in heaven with the Kontrapunkt C. And just $350 for the job.
Steve and Ray are golden resources in the audiophile world. They rebuilt my clearaudio maestro 2 cartridge with a new boron cantilever and micro ridge stylus to I believe better than new performance.
The rebuild was 1 week with phenomenal communication and the photo and video to confirm completion. Highest recommendation!
I sent him my old Koetsu Black. He had to straighten out the suspension and put a new line contact stylus on there. Price was reasonable and the Koetsu sings again. Great work doing the micro surgery this requires. Waited a couple months though, the wait has probably gotten longer.
I recently had Steve retip / refurbish two cartridges. A Series 2 Koetsu Black and an original Kiseki Blue Silver Spot. First and foremost, Steve is as honest as the day is long. He communicates during the process and ensures both parties know exactly what he will do and how much it will cost. Then he sends pictures and videos of his completed work with the cartridge mounted and playing on his personal table. Then he sends it back with photos of the package and tracking info. Outstanding.
His follow up is stellar as well - I had a minor issue with the Black and he insisted that I send it back so he could go through it again - no questions asked and at no additional cost to me. He takes absolute pride in his work. Who else does that? Now it sings better than I ever remember. Both cartridges are now wonderful and will stay in my collection.
I also own one of his Nova Signature LOMC cartridges and it is a giant killer.
I'm just another audio nut that loves the art of faithful music reproduction and those who continue to help me get the most out of my system. Steve gets my highest recommendation.
We are very lucky to have Steve serving the audio community. He is a true audiophile with a ton of experience and a vast personal collection of gear to reflect on.
He recently saved a 40+ year old Technics EPA500 tonearm that lost signal in it’s base. Quite a heroic effort for attempting & succeeding at that repair! The pictures he sent of the surgery were impressive to say the least.
He also rescued my “Covid” Koetsu Vermilion that was received as new looking sick out of the box. After it settled in and went from bad to worse with regards to cantilever alignment, Steve tuned it up restoring its geometry to better than new with a note telling me not to sell it!
Glad to have him in the business as well as consider him a friend!
Steve is a gem to work with. I've had the original Nova, after Harry Westfield, if I remember correctly compared to the Lyra Atlas or the Goldfinger on the VPI forum. And he also repaired a Clearaudio Concerto V2 that a friend of mine broke the stylus off of dusting his TT. And now he just built me an Ultimate Reference .4 mv and rewired my VPI 3D 10.5 arm. I should have it tomorrow and I can't wait to hear it. Again, Steve is top notch and will communicate with you to make sure you are happy!
I have had 3 different VAS Nova carts over the years from Steve(.8mV, .4mV and now .25mV). Each better than the one before. Theses are hand built carts by Steve and they are EXCEPTIONAL, beating out Lyra Kleos and Kiseki PurpleHeart. I have also had him retip my Koetsu RSP and it is OUTSTANDING. HIGH INTEGRITY Person!
While I haven't had Steve do any work for me YET, he did indicate that it wasn't a good idea to ship my Thorens 160C to him- damage risk. So, I'm asking him what things he can do that I can ship from Atlanta. Hopefully he can give my Precision Fidelity Strain Gauge the once over.
That said:
1. are there any reputable individuals or outfits in Atlanta or the SE US that also do quality TT updates and mods?
2. do any of you have experience using or updating/upgrading/modifying the Precision Fidelity strain gauge system?
I too have just sent my first cartridge to Steve for a rebuild/retip, have been using Soundsmith for the last 10 rebuilds of other carts but felt the need to pursue other repair services with things being as they are, please do not read this as a reflection on Soundsmith as they have always given me service and price that was very fair. The turnaround time was more than fair with Steve as I just funded and the cartridge, a Dynavector DRT XV1s shows to be in my mail box. Will follow up here after I install and get a feel for the finished cartridge. Steve did not ask for payment till the day he finished the work and was ready to ship. Enjoy the music
The past three months or so I've been in the process of packing up everything, selling my home and moving to another state. Unfortunately, in the process of setting up my system in my new home I apparently succeeded in bumping my mono cartridge cantilever so it needed to be reset . . . . So off to Steve's it goes without being able to play a single mono LP.. . . . I was however able to set up my stereo tonearm and begin dialing in my system. Well after only a couple nights my play back with the stereo cart suddenly deteriorated badly. After testing with adjust+ it was confirmed my stereo cart was also now derailed/DOA !!!! Holy crap - I’m certainly on a roll !! So off to Steve's it goes as well !!!
Fast forward, I now have both cartridges back, set up and playing vinyl. I can report back that Steve properly set up my MIYAJIMA ZERO mono cart (and did a tuneup as he called it) - and completely rebuilt my TRANSFIGURATION PROTEUS stereo cart (new cantilever/stylus and rebuilt the suspension). I am happy to report my overall playback has never sounded better.
Over several years Steve has done many things for me (rewired tonearms, built and repaired other cartridges, and done other miscellaneous analog audio work) - he is highly recommended from me.
At this point...I honestly wish I never saw this thread because that`s what motivated me to send my ZYX off to Steve Leung at VAS in the first place.
I sent my cartridge to him back in June 2020 (had a couple hiccups here and there) but as of yet... I still don`t have my cartridge back in working order. He was paid too.
I`ve sent a number of polite emails (trying not to be pushy)...He say`s he`s "trying to catch up"
@scm FWIW I have used Soundsmith in the past but the last two jobs have been done by VAS. Steve worked on my ZYX Airy3 which I bought used. Suspension needed work and there was corrosion on the coil and cantilever. The corrosion issue was later verified by the seller who said it was in storage and noticed mildew in the area. Turnaround was 4 weeks in April of 2019. More recently he worked on my Dyanvector XV-1s. I thought it was due for a retip but it needed a cleaning, polishing and some suspension work. Turn around this time was 10 weeks beginning in Feb of this year. He says his backlog is only getting longer.
chakster... I realized it wasn`t an original cantilever when looking through the 10X loop while setting up the cartridge using my Mint protractor. I`ll post my impressions once I get it back.
If you want to know the truth I'll tell you that genuine ZYX cantilever structure is not what anyone can get from Namiki or Ogura, at that time (Airy is an old model) it was made for ZYX exclusively, see on my image why it's different. I owned Zyx Airy III.
Now you can look at Namiki Boron in the real world, an actual image provided by Namiki. What you will see is a Boron Rod with an angle cut end and glue.
When you buy something used you must ask for an image of the cantilever and stylus, otherwise people can cheat you selling refurbished cartridges without even mentioning this fact. You could buy a macro lens for your smartphone to check it yourself.
Zyx cantilevever is completely different in comparison to others.
Nakatsuka-San used press-fit method (not glue like all re-tippers or modern Namiki). As you can see on my image (it's genuine boron cantilever on my Airy III) the diamond goes all the way through the hollow pipe.
Actually in a present time this image uploaded on Namiki site, but when you scroll down you can't find this cantilever in their list of available cantilevers. There are only two type of cantilevers with press-fit stylus mounting method (aluminum and zirconia).
Anybody interested in a review of my VAS rebuild of my ZYX Airy 3 ? Back story: I bought it used and used it for about 2 years. Sounded really nice IMO but, I really didn`t know the true condition being that I did buy it used with untold hours.
Anyway ...I decided to send it off to Steve who on inspection said it looked like it had a Paratrace stylus put on it previously but that it still looked pretty good I asked him to go ahead and just put a whole new Namiki boron/MR assembly on it and that way I`d be good to go just like brand new.
I like him. very easy communicate, prompt with response and did a good job with collapsed suspension. which is not easy as you need do some recoiling from what I understand
will send u a video clip to verify everything is fine
I had Steve do work on 2 cartridges late last year for me. I sent him two Namiki boron cantilevers with MR styli that I had myself and had him install those on an AT 33 Mono and an SAEC C1.
Extremely happy with the work-turnaround time could possibly have been a bit better but as mentioned above, Covid has wreaked havoc with a lot of our schedules lately and I believe Steve finished one fairly quickly but the other might have sat around for a bit. In any event, a couple of months was still ok in my book.
I'm set for cartridges now for a few years. They're both endgame cartridges for me (fully realizing that they might be considered entry level by others LOL!) and sound really, really good IMO.
I would not hesitate to use Steve again or recommend him.
Steve received my cartridge on 4/25/20, replaced both cantilever and stylus, and shipped it back on 5/15/20. I sent him my Triplanar at the same time and he shipped it back on 8/27/20, but it needed considerably more work and he had to source parts that turned out to be hard to find. Both came back better than new and sounding great.
Steve was also very easy to deal with and answered my incessant questions. Highly recommended.
I got one week turn around time. Probably depends on his work load. Plus with Covid, you never know how it could effect someones business. Most folks claim pretty fast turn around time, it seems to be the general rule. @ scm, you sure you didn't send it to Soundsmith? Actually that would be pretty quick for him. LOL BillWojo
boothroyd
11-28-2020 8:01pm3 weeks! I like Steve :-) Steve's a good guy.
Am I missing something here ? You sent in a cartridge to VAS at the beginning of November and got it back in 3 weeks ?? I sent mine in at the end of June and it wasn`t done until October, how does that work ? Seriously
The devil is in details. When someone using a donor (secondhand cartridge for parts) to fix another broken cartridge my question is why not just buy different fully working original cartridge (better one) instead of making Frankenstein ?
The OP has enquired about a Particular Service from a Third Party.
This has evolved into others posting making known other Third Party Services, and their satisfaction with the works undertaken. There is also the naming a few Brands that have been supplied as Donor Cartridges to receive a assessment from a Technician and also undergo a Treatment.
I am aware that the Cartridges being referred to are varied in their Brands/Models, so each Cartridge received back from the Third Party Service are more than likely a unique Model, such is my own.
Reporting on a Brand in such circumstances does not help others, due to the uniqueness of the Cartridge having undergone a Third Party Service.
I chose to report on the Comparison undertaken to the Original Model, as it was done in Method that was quite accurate to carry out a comparison, but the known differences between the Models were not concealed.
The most important part of the report was that the method of purchasing a used Cartridge as a Donor and then using a Third Party Service, comes with a attached risk. If a owned from New Cartridge is at a place of usage it could be improved upon by being serviced, I will suggest the Risk Factor seems to be a lesser concern for the Donor. My experience being a outcome in my venture that was a workable one, and this will not be the outcome for all ventures.
I was letting a wider community know that I been supplied a Cartridge from a Third Party Service that was impressive and satisfying.
Hey guys. Sorry, I haven’t checked up on Audiogon in a long time. If you have any questions related to your cartridge that needs repairs or my opinions certain questions, PM or shoot me an email with photos of your cart. I will try my best to answer them.
@pindac why don’t you just name a cartridge you’re talking about? If you upgrading cheap Denon 103 with Conical stylus to Advanced profile on the same cheap aluminum cantilever it will be a huge upgrade in sound quality. But it will never happen if your original cartridge already have advanced cantilever and stylus.
I am a convert to having a Cartridge Treated by a Third Party Service. This has come about through personal experiences as well as having a interest and attempting to learn a little about MC Designs and reasons why certain materials are adopted into the designs.
I have also been able to compare my owned Third Party Treated Cartridge to the Original Model, 'from a Listening Point of view only', the Third Party Service Treated Cartridge was delivering at a noticeably different and improved level when compared to the Original Model. The good thing for the Comparisons undertaken, is that both Cartridges were mounted on the same Head Shell Model and used on the same Tone Arm and TT and Support System. This will allow for identical environmental influences on the Replays.
There are differences to be considered as follows: 1, The Third Party Treated Cartridge had about 100ish ( Quite Accurate) Hours of usage and was with a Short Period of time exposed to the Ambient Environment,
2, The Original Model was said to have about 300+ (Not Entirely Proven) Hours of usage, as well as having been exposed to the Ambient Environment for a much longer period of time.
3, IMO, the longer a Cartridge is left exposed to the Ambient Environment the more it is becoming contaminated with a unwanted collection of Particulate on the working parts, and it seems there will be a time when these contaminants can be a impedance to the overall performance of the Cartridge. (I have no real proof of this)
What is known is that both owners were sure in their formed views the Third Party Treated Cartridge was with a very desirable SQ and was a improvement over the Original being compared against.
My Purchase of a Donor MC and the Third Party Treatment was at a lesser cost that purchasing the Original Model as a New Purchase. The risk taken by myself was that the Donor Cartridge could have been rejected for a rebuild by the Technician and the Cartridge Cost and Inspection fee would have been to produce a 'no avail' outcome.
I have followed a Enthusiast Blog produced by a Cartridge Builder. There are very nice Photo Records of the Deconstruction and Reconstruction of the Cartridges being worked on. What is off additional interest to me as a content within this Blog, is that the Technician is claiming that many Cartridge Brands are all using the same internal materials as parts. The Companies are producing the Sonic Differences for their Models are being achieved by the following: 1, Coil Wires used with differing amounts of Windings. 2, Different Gauges for the Metal used as Coil Wire. 3, Different Metal Types used as the Coil Wire.
I will also add that a Cantilever Material, as well as the Cantilevers Length and Set Up Angle, along with the Cartridge Body Design will contribute to the Cartridges Uniqueness in the Presentation Produced.
I am on board with the Enthusiasts Blog report that there are commonly used materials being seen as the Parts in use to produce a Cartridges Internal Structure. With this in mind, it does not concern me if a Adept Technician is used as a Third Party Service to overhaul a Cartridge that is wanting.
Maybe a List of Cartridge Brands can be compiled to show would be owners, Cartridges that share a common material assembly for the Internal Structure. It might help with seeing through the Mystique of the Hype through the Advertising. In a nutshell, we are going to sell you a 'Bently', but would prefer it, if it was not known that a Ford / Mazda will be used under the Body Shell.
I at present have another MC Model Purchased to undergo a Similar Third Party Treatment in keeping with my one in use at present. I have been offered a Design for it that is almost to my wish list. I am yet to have the MC Inspected, so the Punt, has still got a few Hurdles to be cleared before the outcome is seen as worthwhile.
There are a few HiFi ideas on a bucket list that will be my Post COVID Projects, off which this is to be one.
Steve at VAS has done an awesome job for me repairing a half dozen high-end carts and counting. everything from a re-tip to cantilever/styli replacement, re-tensioning suspensions and fixing dead shorts.
Wow, that’s amazing, you don’t want to deal with original cartridge manufacturers/designers for a proper rebuild, you have someome else, right?
I assume you like new cartridges but you don’t want to buy a new cartridges from the dealers even if nearly all manufacturers simply change worn cartridge for a brand new one via their dealer (instead of re-tip/rebuild) for a special price. Because you have someone else who can fix broken cartridges cheaper with different materials it’s OK for you.
One question: why all your cartridges required re-tip, cantilever/stylus replacement, re-tensionin? Are we talking about quality high-end cartridges here or something else? Do you use them so hard? @saburo
this thread has been very helpful. how close to "new" or "original" can a rebuild get? have some of you found your carts to sound better than original versions? thank you.
@c_cocobean Do you know any cartridge designer who will post on audiogon? Below is audiogon post from Jonathan Carr who is internationally renowned cartridge designer (maybe you know Lyra cartridges?). In my opinion his thoughts about cartridge re-tipping process is much more valuable than all the post in this thread. Do yourself a favor (read his post on audiogon from 2013 below):
*** "Changing only the stylus will alter the sound less than if the cantilever material is changed. When a cartridge is designed, the designer will consider the moving mass (sum of the stylus, cantilever and coils), the resonant character of the cantilever, and the (sonic) propagation velocity of the cantilever (affected by the cantilever’s mass and rigidity), then choose the suspension and dampers accordingly. If you change the cantilever material, you are effectively throwing the original designer’s calculations away. There is much more (far more than what I have written above) to rebuilding a cartridge than affixing a new stylus or altering the cantilever. In over 30 years of involvement in the phono cartridge industry, I have not seen one retipper who has presented the entire story, who has effectively said "Here are the all of the considerations. Here are the cons as well as the pros. Make a wise choice that is best for you" ... " (J.Carr, 2013) ***
Don't do it. Never allow a 3rd party re-tipper to touch any cartridge lest you become the laughing stock of your peers here and on all forums where these grand poobahs of phono cartridge wisdom reside.
Those proclaiming 100% positive experiences with re-tippers are nothing but shills and never buy anything new anyways, this hobby can do without them.
If you think your newly re-tipped cartridge will sound better than new then you are sorely mistaken. skilled practitioners employing modern methods, materials and potentially better styli profiles never advanced the art and whose efforts will never be accepted as an "improvement."
Phono cartridge design is a PRECISE science with protocols fierily adhered to. Such information re exact specifications of processes and materials are cloaked in extreme secrecy and guarded with the same doggedness as the recipe for Coca-Cola and WD-40 but to name but a few.
Yes, a 3rd party re-tipper should NEVER be considered other than by those who can care less about vinyl replay and music in general. Don't be a douchebag by pretending you got a deal or 'saved money' because you didn't.
WHEW! now that I got that off my chest I feel SOOO much better. Steve at VAS has done an awesome job for me repairing a half dozen high-end carts and counting. everything from a re-tip to cantilever/styli replacement, re-tensioning suspensions and fixing dead shorts. He's a miracle worker and my go-to guy. I heartedly recommend his services!
this thread has been very helpful. how close to "new" or "original" can a rebuild get? have some of you found your carts to sound better than original versions? thank you.
I have been sending my Koetsus to Van den Hul for decades.
I lived in NYC for 45 years, and have been living in the Hudson Valley for 3, and though I am now minutes from Soundsmith, he is not cheap, in fact he is far more expensive than sending it overseas including shipping. And I find him difficult to work with.
Is anybody in a position to compare the quality of Steve's work to Van den Hul's?
Has anybody sent a Koetsu to Steve, and is able to describe the change in the sound characteristics, if any, before and after repair?
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