Using Maple Butcher Block Under a Turntable

LOL. I'm not sure I would hear the difference between an air and kiln dried wood base, but I do know my system is resolving enough that I heard I heard a pretty big difference between a HRS ADH 850 gr record stainless clamp (which has a rubber compound base) and the new Monarch Systems Ultra Carbon 1000 gr clamp (that is all stainless and carbon fiber). I was skeptical at first it would make much difference, but surprised how better the latter is (so I bought it).

Not sure if you're apologizing for your inability, or that of your system, in not being resolving enough to differentiate between the sound of the materials. 

Sorry, but I don’t think you can hear if wood was air or kiln dried....Lmao! It's amazing what some people will believe...

I have one of these under my JVC QL-Y66F turntable.  https://butcherblockacoustics.com/products/maple-edge-grain-audio-platform-1-thick

I have the rubber feet on mine, but you can get them with spikes also.  Seems to work great, and very affordable.  I have Symposium platforms in my main system.  

I use a solid bamboo tray I found in Crate and Barrel or somewhere like that.

I'm now using the isoAcoustics Delos, instead of the ButcherBlock Acoustics I had before. It's more expensive, since it has four of their iso-pucks embedded as feet, but I'm happier with it and I'm now able to use my turntable on my equipment racks instead of dedicating a wall shelf for it. 

I recently bought a 3" thick bamboo cutting board that I made into the top of turntable stand.  I cannot make a direct comparison because it was for a new turntable, but the system sounds very good.

When buying Butcher Block....make sure it looks like a checkerboard with the grain going in different directions. 

From what I'm reading springs are the new kid on the block.

blueranger ambrosia maple is almost always soft maple (Red or silver).  I have never seen hard maple with Ambrosia beetle damage before, only Red Maple.  I have sold hardwood lumber since 2000, but I guess anything is possible in mother nature.

dwette with that Janka scale rating it would be hard maple. I sell hardwood lumber and was just curious what the preferred type seemed to be. Thanks for the input.

As for hardness, I have the Butcher Block Acoustics end-grain 3" Maple block, and they rate it 1450 on the Janka scale. I am using it under a ~40 lb Clearaudio Ovation (with 2350 gr of clamp and outer limit ring).

I use this block ontop of Mapleshade Isoblocks:

https://www.butcherblock.com/product/18-x-12-x-3-cutting-board/

I have two turntables, a Mofi StudioDeck that features sprung-loaded feet and a Triangle Art Concerto with upgraded platter; the platter is much more massive than the standard model platter and the base+platter easily weighs 40 lbs.

The MoFi seemed to like being on the cutting board with the Mapleshade Isoblocks isolating it from the rack. It didn’t seem to like Rollerblocks under the cutting board and it hated having Isoblocks under the turntable’s spring feet. I assumed the feet were designed to work with a certain amount of feedback from the surface they sit on.

The Triangle Art gear have little rubber nub feet. I can’t say that being on vs being off the board makes any difference but I haven’t tested this extensively since moving it around is a pain in the butt. I’m torn between putting the large TA speed controller box on the board or off -- currently its on.

Brown maple is prevalent in Amish country with a hardness of 950 on the Banks scale which can go from 350 up to 4380. Its a soft maple from a quick look and guess on the world wide web

I googled Mapleshade and they use ambrosia maple which is any maple that has been infested with the ambrosia beetle. I don't know what exactly the type of maple they use and maples on the Janka scale vary quite a bit. So just guessing which maple, just look at what type of maple grows in Penn Amish country.

With regards to the maple from Mapleshade or Butcher Block Acoustics is this hard Maple or soft Maple?  If its soft Maple it is not as dense as Cherry or Black Walnut.  Hard Maple is very hard and I would imagine its resonance is at a higher frequency than any of the other three I mentioned.  

I got my butcher block from Butcher Block Acoustics the other day. It took about 6 weeks because I had mine done at a custom size to fit my Solidsteel WS-5 wall shelf. It came with cork/rubber pads for feet, which I am using to support the block on the shelf. For the turntable I have changed out the spikes on the feet for a set of isoAcoustics Gaia III feet (normally used for speakers, and I have the Gaia II on my Dyn C2s). It looks and works great. I am going to try out some HRS Nimbus pucks instead of the provided cork/rubber feet to see if that makes a difference.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4864/45893515952_dc0f5bece2_c.jpg

there are footers that came with my butcher block audio shelf that are rubber and cork.  they seem to work really well

Asahitoro. Don't bother with granite. Use 4 inch air dried maple from Mapleshade. I had wrote a long post but it got lost in a bad connection. Oh well. 

I ended up ordering mine from Bucther Block Acoustics in maple this weekend. I am getting the end-grain version in a custom size (19.5 x 16.25 x 3) to fit my SolidSteel WS-5 wall shelf as direct replacement for the MDF board it comes with. They say it should be about 6 weeks for production. They were going to quote one in cherry to match my furniture, but I’m changing the latter next year anyway, when I get a Naim Fraim, which I will do with either black or ash shelves.

Just got my 1 3/4 maple from butcher block acoustics for my VPI Prime Signature.  I would say the soundstage benefited as well as the focus.  I also noticed a smoothing of the vocals.

Great thread and I need a base too. Anybody have any opinions on the maple vs walnut? I can get an edge cut piece of 1.5" thick walnut for about the same price as an edge cut piece of 3" maple.

I'm also looking at marble and granite. Any preference there?

Thanks.

@boxer12,

What my focus has been on is decoupling...from my floor & from my wall.
(I use a wall mount for my front-end).

Slaw,
You are correct, that is a better way of stating the difference. I also have had good experience using Corian. I'm not sure how well that would work for longer lengths, but it works well cut to 16 X 13 in my smaller rack. 

@boxer12,

The response you received makes a lot of sense. However, one person’s "warmth" could be another person’s "veiled or muffled" sound. It comes down to semantics there.

In my years of experimenting with various isolation devices and platforms, I’d say that response makes perfect sense.

What one should be aware of however is, not using or expecting the maple to be the ultimate problem solvers for any prior/ongoing vibration problems from their rack/stand etc. Boxer, the way you expressed the differences in your system gels with mine, but I might have said "increased transparency". Again, semantics.

I’m inclined to go with maple. It will be more rigid and better for isolation, which is what it’s for. I can always refinish it if I want to.

So I asked this question to "Butcher Block Acoustics" & he stated the softer the wood the warmer the sound. I'm currently using walnut for my preamp base. Can't say I've done any "A" / "B" type testing with maple, but it is better in my system than the granite I was using before. It may be a bit warmer, but where it excels is soundstage width, depth, & definition.  

Anyone have thoughts on using maple vs cherry vs walnut for a butcher block base? Maple is harder than the other two (Janka scale for maple 1450, walnut 1010, cherry 950). Cherry would match my system the best. I guess my real question is how important is the relative hardness of maple, or does one just begin to arrive at dimishing returns for a certain hardness? I'm going to put a 40 lb. unsprung TT on it.

I use a 19.5" x 16.25" x 3.5" maple block on cork/rubber in a SolidSteel WS-5 wall shelf (have also use sorbothane disks under the block). My Clearaudio Ovation sits on top of that. However, when I had it made I had it done as an edge grain. Now I am talking to Butcher Block Acoustics about making me a custom end-grain 3" maple block in the same size.
I am also planning to audition a set of HRS Nimbus feet to see if it improves the system further.

Butcher block on cork fiber. Great isolation. 

Yep it made a difference for sure. Thanks for agreeing. Now I really want to couple directly to the maple bypassing the myrtle Wood blooks. Just need a longer screw spike to raise the AS TT high enough for the belts. 

@blueranger My opinion....

It has been my recent experience that using rubber for turntable damping does not seem to produce the desired results.  Removing the "half inch high damped spike stands" that use rubber may have cleaned up dynamics and the midrange.  At least that has been my experience with a couple of VPI tables.    

That's only my opinion.  YMMV.

Yes metal hole with a very hard rubber base

@blueranger When you said "half inch high dampened spike stands," were those by chance rubber damped spike stands?  

I just did take the little spike stands away and rested the TT spikes on the maple block. Then I threaded up my 2 belts and now the motor pulley is too high for the platter and won't stay on. I remembered I had 3 small myrtlewood blocks and placed under the spikes. Put the belts on and I swear it sounded better than before. It doesn't make sense that by taking out that the half inch high dampened spike stands would make a difference but it was a positive one. A warmer sound with a richer bass. Tell me it's not true. But I was a happy listener all afternoon. I replayed U2 SBS which is a little dry and shrill anyway and now its much better.

Does any one set their  TT spikes directly on the maple block?

I have my Thorens 124 with glued-on ebony wood spikes sitting on a 1" maple butcher block which sits on spikes attached to wall shelf bolted to a stud in the wall. It allows me to use the classic Swiss Beachwood plinth with no mushrooms instead of some massive thing and it just sounds and looks awesome.

The thing with cones is they’re rather *directional* and should always be points down. When they are points down they allow energy to *exit* the system and disallow energy to come up into the system, relatively speaking. This is also why the specific material of the cone and the shape of the cone are also important. What you want this very rapid energy transfer as well as seismic energy blocking.

Sad...……..

@geoffkait  What golden rule of cones.  Oh, no.  I didn't know!!   Please don't call the cone police!  Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!  ;-)

I didn't want to put threaded inserts into the maple bb.  My thin and weak excuse is that I didn't want to risk damage to the bb.  The real reason is that I was too lazy to drill out holes for the inserts.  Figured it would be OK.  The Stillpoint cones are point-up, BearClaws are solid brass and point-up.  

Huh? Three brass cones facing up? You broke the golden rule of cones. For shame!

Placed the maple butcher block on three cones solid brass (facing up) on the top of the record shelves (same shelf / position as before).  Placed the Aries Extended on the butcher block.  Put three stillpoints under the table at the approximate position as the cones under the bb.  Adjusted for level.  

There was an improvement.  Dynamics seemed a bit shrper, bass a bit tighter.  The subtle warmth around the lower registers of a harp and clarinet was reduced providing more detail, particularly woodiness of the clarinet.  

Maybe the soundstage was improved.  Maybe.  Maybe the imaging was a little tighter.  Maybe.  Maybe tenor and also voices were a little more natural (less chesty, but since its vocals, who know what they REALLY sound like live).  Maybe.

My conclusion is that the ~ $120 investment was worth it.  

I do intend to try a set of dedicated rigid shelves that are "coned" directly into the concrete floor with the table sitting in a configuration with the maple bb like above.  Not sure there is much room for improvement, but it might be worth a try.  

Curious as to why you would consider putting your turntable on a slab of wood? Does it matter if it's currently sitting on a metal table? Is that why?

ya, i just have a 2" maple butcher block under my VPI Scoutmaster II.
I am just using the cork and rubber squares: about 1" cubed. its good, but not the best. 
vibrapods are good as well.

but with a blank butcher block, you can drill 3-4 holes to install spikes.
e.g, from Dayon Audio or Parts express. but you will want to use a drill press to make sure the holes are perfectly straight, so that your spikes are perfectly straight. 

1. drill hole in the block
2. install metal female outside threaded piece into the hole you drilled.
3 . screw in the metal spikes. 
4. put metal discs under the spikes if you like

I've done this, worked for me

@slaw Yup. 10". Seems to work fine with the overhang. I wanted to get the Resomat but he's retired from making them.

@bpoletti yes but it is the wood that makes it sluggish. Try the stillpoints on granite blocks..I beg you!! And spill the beans on what you did.

@noromance The table rests on three original Stillpoints.  I doan need no steenkin mat. 

All kidding aside, the previous owner of the table saw this thread ad gave me a call over the weekend.  Made a couple of suggestions.  Both have improved the sound and reduced the magnitude of the warmth I was trying to address.  Still room for more tweaks.  

@noromance

I assume you use a 10" because of the raised lip on most vinyl records, that would leave some area unsupported, still not flat.... Would a flat profile lp be better? Or..cut the outer lip off of a regular lp and smooth the edge off?

@bpoletti Er... your turntable mat. You don’t have one, do ya? No Virtual System either. A few years ago, I had problems with heavy furniture under my 401. Warmth, blurring, sluggishness. I put 3 small granite block samples on the furniture top. Then placed the heavy 401 on small brass compression rings I had knocking around. Basically the turntable sat on 3 pieces of tiny decouplers which rested on the granite which rested flat on the furniture top. It totally cleaned up the sound for no $. I use a different set up now but that worked for years.

@noromance What mat?

All I'm REALLY trying to do is get rid of some warmth that seems to be coming from the table

Try replacing your mat with a vinyl record preferably a 10". Which is what I use.