Turntable upgrade recommendations: SME vs AMG vs Technics vs other
I've recently upgraded most of my system, but I still have a Rega P8, with Linn Krystal cartridge, which I like, but I've heard that there may be better options.
I have Sound Lab electrostatic speakers, Ypsilon Hyperior amplifiers, an Ypsilon PST-100 Mk2 pre-amplifier, and am thinking about an Ypsilon phono stage to match with my system, and a turntable/cartridge. I listen to almost entirely classical, acoustic music.
Based on my very limited knowledge, and simple research, I've been looking at three brands, each of which is a different type of turntable: SME (suspension), AMG (mass), and Technics (direct drive).
What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different types of turntables, and of those in particular?
Dear @drbond : We already know that everything ( items. ) in the overall analog rig is critical: TT/cartridge/tonearm and for good reasons.
Now, you can have/own the ultimate: analog rig with the best whole capacity for the cartridge can pick-up " all " the recorded signal in those grooves adding the less every kind of distortions but the next step is the hardest and more " terrifying " for that recorded audio signal because that extremely delicate and sensitive signal must be amplified at a level that can be handled by the line stage or by the speaker amplifier and this kind of amplification is a true challenge for any phono stage that needs to amplify 10K times with no noise and no distortion ( those is imposible to achieve, nothing is perfect. ) or at least mantain at minimum to preserve the original audio signal integrity and things does not finish with the amplifiying steps but it comes additional steps in the phono stage that even degrades higher the cartridge signal than the amplifiying proccess and this is the proccess of the inverse RIAA eq that must be accurated with at minimum everykind of distortions.
The task of a phonolinepreamp will demands the best electronic design you can achieve to mantain at minimum the whole signal degradation that happens in the phono stage proccecess.
Yes, you need the Bugatti and if you think you do not then why to worry to change your RP-8 or your cartridge?
Yes, I appreciate my Rega P8, but you're right, Rega doesn't get any respect in the audiophile community. Maybe there's some valid rationale for that, as they don't subscribe to either major turntable paradigms: mass or suspension. I am very happy with my Rega P8, but it would be interesting to compare to a "higher quality" turntable to flesh out the differences: strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Yes, the FM223 is apparently in very high demand, and it is quite expensive, at about 3 x the price of the standard Ypsilon phono stage or 1.5 x the price of the SE version. I would imagine that the FM223 would be worth it, but for me that would be like going from a base Mercedes to a top of the line Bugatti -- perhaps I need to go to the upper level Porsche first? (less expensive than the Bugatti, but more performance than the Mercedes).
terry, But you want the motor to affect speed, when the speed drifts away from constancy. So, in your first paragraph, are you making a virtue or a problem out of "torque". I am not sure what you meant. Could be you are saying that to couple a low torque motor with a heavy platter is a good thing, because speed in such a design is primarily maintained by the rotational inertia of the heavy platter. That idea has its advocates and its detractors, as well. What is remarkable is that so many different seemingly conflicting design philosophies can be made to "work" such that the end users come to swear by this or that approach.
This is why I like Rega tables - extremely light platters/plinths/arms with low torque needs and noise. Great arms, build quality and durability. As long as you isolate them, they are a tremendous value.
By the way, when I put mine on a spring platform from Townshend the sound improvement was shocking. Now, it caused foot falls (so @lewm your concerns about springs are on the money even though @millercarbon will strenuously object to that comment) because of the frequency combination, so I had to put it on a wall shelf, which got rid of the problem, but you have to be sure the springs are the right tension for optimal sound improvement. The sound is dead quiet and the speed is at 33.28 and 44.98 RPM respectively and probably is even a little more accurate as I measured the revolutions with a cell phone which added a little weight to the platter.
Not sure why they don't get more positive mentions on the 'Gon.
Agree with almost everything. But: a low torque motor (e.g. 2W - yeah, I know watts are joules/sec) simply lacks the torque to affect speed very much. It's barely enough to overcome stylus friction and belt flexion, so it's tiny irregular forces (noise) have little influence on a massive platter.
You note that 'tightness' of the servo is an issue. I do so agree. That's why I use an AC motor - an AC motor sets a constant pace, it doesn't try to correct the pace. The speed of an AC motor can be set very accurately and very stably with a quality power supply.
Here is a bad thing about a spring-suspended DD turntable: The energy put into rotation of the platter is also going to twist the chassis on its suspension, in the direction opposite to platter rotation (counter-clockwise). That is why it’s a good thing the Motus uses a low torque motor. Even so, the platter might end up with a very inconstant speed, due to the servo trying to correct for twisting combined with the variable effects of stylus drag on the rotation of the platter. Has anyone published a study of the speed constancy of the Motus? I am all for isolating TTs, but not with springs. As to low torque vs high torque (without defining the terms, the two statements are meaningless), torque only comes into play when the platter is starting up from rest. Once the platter is rotating at or near its set speed, torque is neither a good nor a bad thing, so long as there is enough to tweak the platter speed when called upon by the servo. What does make a difference is the "tightness" of the servo control. Different designers have adopted different levels of stringency for speed control. Technics TTs historically (I don’t know about the SP10R) adopted a very tight feedback. Other vintage DD turntables used looser servo control, especially those that also used coreless motors, like the L07D, the Pioneer Exclusive, and the Yamaha GT2000(X).
Mijostyn, Your categorical dismissal of the Lenco is silly. True, the bone stock OEM Lenco GL75 or 78 can be bested by modern turntables, but not by any belt driven turntable below the $2500 or so retail cost, provided only that the tonearm is refurbished or replaced by a better one, and highly modified Lencos that still retain the motor and the vertical idler drive mechanism would surprise you, if you ever sought out a sample to listen to. Visit Lenco Heaven to learn what can be done on a relatively limited budget with Lenco parts.
Something that Raul wrote that wasn’t "wrong" has been misinterpreted by subsequent comments. More mass per se does not result in a higher resonant frequency; it’s just the opposite. I think what Raul meant is that more platter mass on an air suspended turntable requires more work by the air suspension which could result in an increase in the absolute magnitude of the resonance. I don’t know if that’s been proven, but it makes some sense.
"with modern machining bearing tolerances can be very close to perfect"
Agreed. It’s the "close to" that tells the story. In the old days, bearings were machined fairly closely, and then rotated against each other in situ, with fine grit, to smooth them. The finest bearings were done with the finest grit. That’s exactly how the glass-stoppered reagent flasks from the chemistry lab were made - and they were literally air tight.
That’s also similar to how the billion dollar telescopes are made today, so I doubt that the practice can be improved upon with machining. With an air cushion, however ...
Thanks for your explanation of Raul’s point - it was opaque to me. To that point, a platter bouncing on an air column is clearly visible and audible. It can be tuned away by changing the pressure by a few psi. Ask me how I know.
Heavier than 20 lb is absolutely useful for inertia when the stylus is dragged through the groove, producing a variable retarding torque. It is also useful for resisting the irregular pulses of an electric motor, and the bearing noise in that motor.
I have tested this - with a 45kg platter, the precision 2W electric motor, run from a quadrature power supply, generates enough noise from these sources to be repeatably audible, as a slight HF glare of the CD kind. Removing the belt tells the story.
@terry9, I do not think Raul is talking about the platter itself ringing. He is talking about the suspension resonance point, the platter resonating on the air just like an automobile suspension without shocks (dampers). The heavier the plater the higher the frequency the platter will bounce at. This is unusual as normally it is the other way around but as the plater gets heavier the spring rate increases, the air gets stiffer becoming a solid wall (the thrust bearing). Platters have become a male phallic symbol. There is no reason for a platter to be heavier than about 10 lb. Heavier than 20 lb is totally unnecessary with a normal bearing. Air bearing tables just need to get the resonance frequency out of the audio range or higher than the frequency response of the best cartridges, about 70 kHz. What weight that takes I have no idea.
@billwojo, that would be a nice idea but they are all being cancelled. I tried to go to the NYC show but had to switch to David Byrne's American Utopia. It got canceled at the front door. We had a very nice dinner at Wolfgang's.
@drbond, terry nine waxes poetic about air bearing turntables but many thing the complexity far outweighs the benefits. The noise on the record far exceeds what any half decent turntable produces and an with modern machining bearing tolerances can be very close to perfect. With modern materials mechanical bearings can be virtually dead silent.
The SME pays careful attention to their suspension. They are beautifully machined and finished. They will last a lifetime. There are very few tables that perform at their level.
@terry9turntable bearing do not generate any high frequency noise. They spin too slowly. If anything is going to produce high frequency noise it would be air rushing around all over the place.
Dear @drbond : I think you know about Allaerts LOMC cartridges. Well, those cartridges never had a review on TAS or STHP magasines and I asked MF why not a review of Allaerts cartridges and he told me that J.Allaerts refuse to gaves him one cartridge for review because he had and has a way long waiting list of customers that already made its in advanced payment for their samples.
Due to that fact I send to MF my sample of the MC2 Gold Finish for the review and my cartridge came back 2-3 months latter after the review.
In the case of FM Acoustics you don't find out a review because something quite simple: THEY DON'T NEED IT as Dartzeel, Ypsilon or CH and the like.
Chips down there? well obviously that you don't know for now what you are talking about.
" active devices increasing noise ", as @terry9you are wrong and both of you have to know that there are active phono preamps designs and there are PHONO PREAMPS designs and this fact makes a huge differences for the better or worst.
Other than live MUSIC we took FM Acoustics as an audio quality reference sound for our SS fully discrete active phonolinepreamp design and here exist an owner that can tell you is just dead silent.
Btw, high end FM Acoustics audio items in reality is a side line for this manufacturer. You can read here about:
Yes, I think I have to agree with you based on experience about your comment regarding active devices increasing noise. I think that is why I like the Ypsilon PST-100 Mk2 SE so much, as it is very transparent and clear in its passive mode, and the electrostatic speakers ruthlessly expose any bad signal in the path.
I would have to research FM Acoustics more, but, based on my first impression, it seems to be similar to dartzeel in using processing chips to convey sound in a SS fashion. While I don't like the idea of processing power creating music, I would find it hard to argue with results!
You may find more bang for the buck in a quieter TT than in signal processing. Ralph (of Atmasphere fame) often suggests spending a lot on the phono stage to the same end.
As a general rule, every active device (transistor or tube) in the signal path increases noise.
For example, I parallel the first (aerospace) transistors in my preamp to reduce noise.
Thanks for including a paper on why you prefer a 9" tonearm over a 12" tonearm.
My interest is piqued about FM Acoustics, and their FM223 phono linearizer. There are no reviews easily found on that unit in the US using a google search. I suppose there is a reason for that, although there tend to be plenty of reviews of other Swiss equipment, CH1 and dartzeel, in particular. I suppose that this means that the FM223 might be prohibitively expensive? Their website doesn't list any of their dealers/distributors either, which I find rather odd.
@terry9, No problem. The point of it all is that it gets us thinking. Graham Engineering is right down the road. TechDas tables are very quiet even from a foot away but, opposing magnets are much quieter, no compressor.
Platters resonating is hardly ever a problem in this day and age. Even if a platter did ring just throw the right mat on it and it will stop entirely. There are other issues significantly more important. Bearing noise, isolation from external vibration and speed stability are all more important. Platters have become much larger than they need to be because they have become a male phallic symbol. They have become a design element more than one of explicit performance gains.
@rsf507, I listened to the Strain Gauge on a smallish monitor system of very high quality but there was no bass certainly below 40 Hz probably more like 60 Hz. I have no reason to believe it would make anything but excellent bass below 60 Hz. It had absolutely no problem picking up people walking. What you could not hear you could see with it's display lights. The system has a very different presentation than my own system so I have to temper my comments. The sound of that system was very forward, instruments and voices tend to be in the plane of the speakers. My system throws everything behind the speakers. I am at a loss to say what the strain gauge does with the 3rd dimension. I listened to the Hyperion for a short period. It is relaxed and smooth. The Strain Gauge is an attack cartridge. Transients are sharp and delineated. Strings are pluckier, snare strikes sharper. People have said it is sort of like switching to electrostatic speakers and I can hear where this comes from. It Is very clear and detailed. I did not hear it miss track at all. From my perspective it should work well with my system and represents quite a value if you add in the phono stage and I would get the 610 signature unit. As always I won't be entirely sure until I get one, such is the risk in this hobby. There are systems that will not do well with the Strain Gauge. Those that have a system that is already bright and leans toward the harsh side should proceed with caution. Those that feel they are lacking detail and dynamics will certainly benefit.
Dear @terry9 : I owned MS non-air bearing and with air bearing too, both really in average league. Not a very good TT designs by today, perhaps for the old times.
Techdas came from there but even that could be that problems with were fixed what's not fixed ( I think ) could be the designer mind who instead to design a totally new TT he gone and goes with the past.
His last TT goes for around 400K and almost needs a dedicated room only for the TT.
I readily admit - I enjoy the listening versus the upgrading of the system and the pieces and that isn't conducive to finding the best option available :)
Enjoy the journey - I attended a virtual meeting with VPI this fall and can definitely appreciate the idea of exploring different approaches to sonic bliss.
Lenco Turntable is a genius piece of Swiss engineering. If you add heavy plinth and upgraded tonearm it over performs any mid priced belt drive turntable.
One of my friends who had used dozens of great turntables used Lenco L70 in the same time with Micro Seiki 1500 and liked it no less than Micro Seiki. In my system Lenco L78 exchanged a decent turntable Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck. Another friend prefered Lenco L75 by miles over his Pro Ject 6.9.
The issue with Lenco and most other vintage is that it is not plug and play. Sadly, a lot of people who use vintage don't have engineering scils and audio experience to get truly good results.
"Raul mentions the heavier the platter the higher the resonance frequency and there is no practical way to dampen an air thrust bearing. All you can do is adjust the frequency it resonates at"
Not so. A properly designed platter does not resonate. Walker uses lead loaded epoxy, so I understand. Nottingham uses sculpted cast iron topped with carbon composite. TechDAS uses 5 layers of metal, according to their literature. I use sculpted cast iron topped with an inch of graphite, 45 kg, and although each section rings (near 500Hz and 2000Hz) the combination is DEAD.
Further, not all air bearings are created equal. I use porous graphite air bearings, which acts as a final damping filter.
"I think terry9 fails to realize that an air bearing and drive of any nature provide more than enough energy to get things going if the table is not well designed"
Think again. I suggest that you listen to an air TT that has been properly thought out.
@terry9, The fields a magnetic thrust bearing generates are a constant, not oscillating as a motor would do. I wondered if there might be a steady attraction or repulsion so I measured tracking force across the entire record including right at the spindle. It was perfectly constant. The magnets are far enough away that they do not affect the cartridge. As Raul mentions the heavier the platter the higher the resonance frequency and there is no practical way to dampen an air thrust bearing. All you can do is adjust the frequency it resonates at. Magnetic thrust bearings have the same problem but you do not have to worry about air currents and the noise they might make. I have a Sota Cosmos and as far as I can tell it acts just like a solid thrust bearing with but with no noise. I am pretty sure rumble levels are lower but records have a certain amount of built in rumble from very little to horrendous.
@rauliruegas, Any body in movement that is sprung has a resonance frequency. I think terry9 fails to realize that an air bearing and drive of any nature provide more than enough energy to get things going if the table is not well designed. I do not like air bearings at all including those used in tonearms. The complexity is not necessary and air currents can cause problems if they are aimed in the wrong direction.
I'm not sure what you mean about MF. He is in love with whatever costs the most. It certainly won't be the Motus II. It is too cheap. Peter Ledermann thinks it's the cats meow. It draws my attention because it is the first DD table I know of with a suspension.
@alexberger, the Lenco L78 is a museum piece. In this day and age it is unlistenable.
@millercarbon, having owned a Rosewood Signature Platinum I can attest to the fact that Koetsus are possibly the worst tracking expensive cartridges made. Fortunately. you have found a Strain Gauge which might be the best tracking cartridge ever made. I listened to one for several hours last weekend, an 810 I believe.
@safebelayer, I am not entirely sure but Basis may be slipping after AJ's passing. They are starting to make things of questionable benefit to jack the price. Things that I know AJ would not do. I live right around the corner from Basis and spoke with AJ on several occasions. They still make a great turntable but my favorite was the Debut Vacuum.
I will add my humble and less than experienced opinion. Less than because I do not have a system that compares with yours. Having said that, if I was looking at spending $30k for a phono preamp, not to mention the cost for the rest of your system, I would be looking in the $40k-75k arena of turntable, arm, & cartridge combinations...at least. So, this is what this pauper would do:
1. Follow @terry9 advice. Get on a plane or three and invest in listening sessions. You’re going to spend 10’s of thousands of 💵, do this foundational work.
2. Be patient
3. Do more research on other turntables, tonearms, and cartridges.
4. Reach out to Jeff Dorgay with Tone Publications. He’s very knowledgeable and has extra systems as spendy as yours. He’s also not a pompous #@&! like a certain self-proclaimed analog expert who won’t review certain tables because he doesn’t like the design, engineering or the fact the mfr doesn’t bow to his excellency. Sorry, back to the point. Jeff’s a great guy.
5. Check out Basis Audio. The late A.J. Conti dedicated his life to turntable and tonearm engineering. They have standard bearing and air based turntable systems. You can hear for yourself which you prefer. Their bearings do not go bad...period.
6. Choose two different cartridges, one being Koetsu and the other ____?_____. Everyone should have a Koetsu If they can afford it. If you get two tonearms, you’ll never regret having two setups. Regarding a mono setup, I ask myself, "how often will I play a mono album?" If it’s 1:100 or more, I’d rather spend the extra 💵 on better vinyl or something else. That’s me.
7. @millercarbon has good advice regarding the cost to performance ratio of a table/tonearm compared to cartridge. That said, I think you’re investing enough in the rig that short changing your cartridge selection would be criminal or near to it. No disrespect to mc, but a $15k cartridge should not only not be overlooked but rather expected given what you are likely to spend on the tt/arm combo.
8. Be patient
Goodluck. Please share your experiences listening to different rigs, dealer encounters, and final decision. Thank you for the invite into your journey.
Motor turns platter in jerks just in cheap DJ DD turntables like Technics 1200. Top Japanese and German DD don’t have this issue. For example, EMT 950 motor (DC PWM) works so smooth that is has super light platter.
All lacker cutter are DD. All vinyl we have is produced with these cutters.
I compared Nottingham Spacedeck to much cheaper Lenco L78 from 70x. And Lenco overperformed it.
Even being on a concrete slab, suspension and a wall shelf can really improve the performance of the P8. It did for me, but I have a suspended wood floor, so I probably got the most improvement possible.
If you think you have maximized the isolation and have a large budget, you may want to see if you can get hold of the Rega Naiad, Roy's ultimate table made in limited supply I believe. The lowest possible weight with theoretically lowest possible internal force needed to turn the platter and hence lowest energy dissipated. Someone mentioned you could get one made special, but not sure if your budget will allow it. It is his "cost no object" design.
Anybody in Agon land have one of these? I never seem to see it mentioned.
"Any body in movement develops internal vibrations/resonances "
Almost true. But those resonances must be excited by vibration. Where does that energy come from? Not the air bearing - you are thinking of a conventional bearing, perhaps. The only other significant source of energy is the electronic jitter from a motor, and the worst are DD, then idler drive. And the more powerful the motor, the more energy to spill over into the platter and excite those resonances.
Dear @mijostyn@terry9 :As air bearing high mass platter is not a " dream design ". Any body in movement develops internal vibrations/resonances as higher the mass as higher those kind of distortions.
Low torque DD TT as the other characteristics in the STST " looks " fine but you can be sure that after you listen to you find out that exist some trade-offs, nothing is perfect in audio and especially with the analog alternative.
Why don't as MF about that " low torque " when he is in love with the high mass high torque SAT DD TT?
True, a resonance can develop. But this is easily controlled with a massive platter, a well damped air supply, and tuned air pressure. There is no reason to think that magnetic suspension is quieter, but there is good reason to be suspicious of stray magnetic fields near a MC cartridge, especially if these are sufficient to levitate a high mass platter.
A high mass platter is important to smooth the electronic jitter from cogging at the poles of an AC motor or the constant corrections of a DC motor controller.
@terry9, air bearings are anything but silent. The air has to escape and can cause high frequency resonance. Plain bearings in oil done right are extremely quiet. The biggest issue is the thrust bearing which opposing magnets or a properly machined ball do just fine.
@rauliruegas, I have no idea why we argue so much. We both dislike unipivots and 12 inch arms all for the right reasons. Did you comment about the STST Motus 2 turntable yet. I am fascinated by it, a low torque DD turntable with a suspension that is user adjustable for various weight arms. The tonearm board is also clever. You drill the right size hole then you can rotate it to achieve a perfect spindle to pivot distance or change overhang. It uses three leaf springs. I'm not sure this is a good idea as the lateral resonance point is going to be higher. If it gets into the tonearm resonance area you know what might happen.
I had a Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck turntable for many years. Then I switched to vintage Lenco L78 on a heavy birch plywood plinth. I was amazed how much more accurately the Lenco idler drive conveys all the nuances of the rhythm compared to Nottingham! Especially the difference obvious on classical piano and Jazz built on small rhythm nuances like Modern Jazz Quartet. In addition bass texture was far better on Lenco as well instrument separation. Then I bought a vintage direct drive EMT 948.
In my opinion, belt drive technology is initially flawed. A decent turntable can be made, but it will cost more than a good quality idler or direct drive. And as result of less accurate PRAT reproduction, belt drive will always inferiors in musicality.
When trying to post, I am sometimes asked to prove that I'm not a robot. But the last inch of screen is obscured, and the page will not scroll. Could you pass this bug along to the systems people, please?
Thanks for your input on air bearings. I agree that air in all directions is important - how not when I can hear the sleeve bearings of my 2W precision motor? Even through a belt!
Didn't know that air in all directions was so rare. That's quite a surprise to me. But then I don't shop at the 100k mark - I'd rather build it.
Dear @drbond :I suggested the SME 30 Anniversary TT or from SME the 15A with not a 12" tonearm but a shorter one ( here in the link you can read why not the 12". ).
In reality air bearing is a very old TT kind of designs that in theory and for the audiophiles could means something really as a " dream design " but it's not exactly that way. SME has nothing to envy against those air bearing TT designs.
Micro Seiki in the early 80's was one of the proposers and even that theirs TT were not immune to vibrations as the SME. Btw, TechDas is Micro Seiki and nothing really new but its high price.
At the end a TT needs to have accurated speed stability in the short time periods and obviously over the time and must be extremely good damped to avoid internal an external vibrations/resonances of every kind, those are the main targets in any TT and that's what the SME does.
In the other side the FM Acoustics 223 phono stage has a way higher quality design and excecution of that design that your beloved Ypsilon that are in an inferior league no matter what.
The Ortofon cartridge I named is really competitive with any other you can have in mind, as I said it you can't go wrong with it.
Here the link to know why shorter arm instead 12" ones and this information comes by a SAT designer manufacturer tonearms. 12" is marketing for very low knowledge audiophiles level:
As a turntable guy, I could be happy with any of the three you’ve listed.
The weak link of the Technics is (as others have stated) their tonearms and record mats. These are areas of big gains, especially if using modern MC cartridges.
The AMG, while beautifully executed, will most likely require an HRS Platform or suitable isolation to perform its best. Solely mass damped & rigidly coupled.
The SME are truly finished products requiring no additional updates or tweaks. Most recently even the tonearm signal cables have been upgraded to Crystal Cable which is electrically wired correctly for all preamps including the recent trend of transimpedance. Their tonearms are sublime. The suspended models from the M15 up even have captive tungsten bearings installed in their footers should any type of boutique platform be utilized they can be revealed.
High performance turntables can be thought of as race cars in that they will only perform at their potential when properly set up. Most qualified installers (without a sell agenda) will be happy to set up any new SME due to a lack of potential surprises other than the sound of the finished product.
Just heard a Kuzma Stabi R with 4POINT9 combo at dealers and just a wonderful combo. Images were focused and pinpoint and a very expansive soundstage. Above my budget sad to say.
@terry9, the only real air bearing turntable out there is the big Kuzma. All the others use an air thrust system. You can achieve pretty much the same result with opposing magnets at much less expense. Examples are the Clearaudio tables and some Sotas. I personally do not like turntables with outboard motors and tonearms. Particularly the tonearm should be solidly mounted to the same fixture as the platter.
@rauliruegas, Hey Raul, what do you think of the STST Motus II turntable? I'm pretty sure I know what chakster would say. You are not so predictable;)
I have heard many high end tables, and I ended up on the AMG Viella V12 in my system. It sounds incredible. I have a Lyra Etna cartridge and all Boulder electronics. I’m not sure I’d be able to get a better sound for less than 100k and I love the AMG. So we’ll made, feels like a tank.
@rauliruegas: Thanks for taking interest in my musical dilemma. May I please ask why you suggest those over the higher end SME, or air bearing turntables? Is that the sweet spot in pricing?
My suggestion is to find out when the next big audio show is going to be held and book a flight. When spending this kind of money you want to be able to get hands on the product. Any of these top flight tables should provide what you want, you need to see how easy it is to live with. A TT that is fiddly to operate may well get on your nerves and suck the enjoyment out of listening to your collection.
To complete my thoughts, bearing noise in a turntable is not always recognizable. In a quality turntable, it can manifest as high frequency distortion on top of the signal, which appears to be clarity in the triangle or the harpsichord. But this is artificial, and becomes wearing.
When you hear an air bearing, preferably three dimensions of air, you hear an absence of this HF distortion, and the result may sound 'dull' - that is, until you realize that 4 hours have passed and you still want to listen. And you just don't listen to the other turntable with the conventional bearing. At all.
In a phrase: clear, but not analytical.
No maintenance problems with my setup. Several stages of air filtration solved that.
But there's more to the initial setup than for a conventional turntable, so be prepared for that. I suggest that you listen to some turntables, including at least one high end like Walker or Techdas, and decide if it's worth it. If not now, perhaps in 5 years. Whatever. It's your money and it's your enjoyment that counts.
No glitches to the air system for me. Smooth, quiet, idiot-proof. I see some reference to price in some comments, but your OP suggests you are looking at some pretty expensive options, and the Air Force V is something like $22k, then you have the cost of the tonearm.
Don't know what your budget is, but I love my Bergmann turntable and its linear tracking tonearm. Makes beautiful sound and reduces issues with anti-skating, and other cartridge set up issues.
Contrary to what has be said earlier, I watched several Soundsmith videos this weekend and it was stated that the cartridge is the most important piece of your record playing pleasure. Obviously you can't match very disparate pieces - arm, table, cartridge. But it makes sense that that which has contact with the vinyl is essentially important.
I, too, have a VPI HW-40, but it is the last thing I would do is recommend it or any other specific turntable to you. One thing to be very wary of, and this forum is a prime example, the correspondent who has a component they love and as far as they are concerned it is incomparable. That is nonsense. You need options and time to listen to differences. There are a number of very good turntables available, you named some of them in your OP. The hard part is to get a chance to experience them. You ruled out Steve at High Performance Stereo out of hand without knowing anything about him. I suggest you give him a phone call. He is not a normal dealer. He may be able to help you. Call him. 917-208-4750.
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