Turntable Isolation Journey

You play a lot of music at loud levels in that room?  Not much I can see will help with airborne interference.  Maybe a nice digital playback source.

You play a lot of music at loud levels in that room?  Not much I can see will help with airborne interference.  Maybe a nice digital playback source.

Since the structure-borne energy has been addressed, airborne energy doesn't seem have been be a big problem. The rack with turntable is located several feet down the left side wall. And I don't want a digital source lol. 

Any one use HRS platforms or racks.  I have a floating floor and isolation of my turntable is a challenge. 

@mulveling I can't recollect when I first started to consider room treatments as a subject to be better understood. I have been to numerous Trade Events and have seen plenty of Commercial Products and Room Treatments utilised in Demo' Rooms.

In the early days visits to Commercial Events were more about learning how the Audio Devices were creating a signal and how the Speaker was able to produce a sound. It was these experiences that steered me to become a advocate of and remain loyal to the Vinyl Source as a sole source for more than 25 years. A digital Source is quite a new addition in my system.

As I learnt about Vinyl, the interest in the Mechanics of the devices used become quite developed and I met with many to learn how they were addressing the need to be creating interfaces that are crucial to attempt for an unadulterated sound being produced. This is a interest that is still strong today, there are plateaus that are camped on, but the getting to the Summit is still the climb to be undertaken.

Room Treatments have come into the equation when I was quite interested and practicing methods to improve mechanical interfaces. The curiosity was is the works undertaken due to the listening environment, hence, supporting structures and room treatments evolved as an interest and educational experience.

I highly recommend room treatments, there is extensive information on how to do DIY Absorption Panels and Diffusers. If this does not suit, there are also off the Shelf Absorption / Diffusers that will be quite suitable and not necessarily expensive. There is the trade off if a room is to be a main living area, as the method to conceal the treatments and blend them in as decor' might mean a little extra thought is needed for the aesthetics and if buying off the shelf this can be with increased costs. 

As stated before, if these subjects are addressed, support structure, and room acoustics, revisiting simple to exchange interfaces on the Signal Path, i.e, Cables, Valves, SUT,  will shine a new light on some of the earlier choices made.

The Link is not a recommended site to purchase from, but it will give a consolidated overview of how aesthetics can be considered.

https://gikacoustics.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAjw6vyiBhB_EiwAQJRopouz8t8L6CMjxTWSTCFXWP9EQTqtQZ9fA-JxNyPo42R66Q2bXH

Well thanks for the tip about spikes into hockey pucks for speaker footers! I’m amazed at what it did for a pair of Pure Audio Project speakers on a sprung floor. Just snapped everything into focus and took the goo out of the midrange. Much better than the stock feet. I am very surprised by this as I had long ago decided that rubber was a bad material in audio systems. I guess mental rigidity is bad too.

Well thanks for the tip about spikes into hockey pucks for speaker footers! I’m amazed at what it did for a pair of Pure Audio Project speakers on a sprung floor. Just snapped everything into focus and took the goo out of the midrange. Much better than the stock feet. I am very surprised by this as I had long ago decided that rubber was a bad material in audio systems. I guess mental rigidity is bad too.

@jollytinker Yep -- I hopped on amazon this week, and now I’ve got pucks under the tube amps and speakers (spiked) too. Sounds GREAT!

Agreed, it’s funny how much of the recent audiophile vibration philosophy abhors the idea of rubber because it will supposedly "store energy and release it later, blurring the music". We’re told it’s better to dispose of the energy by heat conversion. Well, sure! But what % of the energy can really be converted in this way? Especially without a LOT of lossy material acting over a very large area - certainly much more than the amount of "magic" material in these audiophile feet. Some of these companies will patent their own blend of polymer (which must be very easy to spec & outsource now) and sandwich layers. Is this really better than a fat rubber puck constrained between hard surfaces (e.g. spikes and floor)? And how stable are these polymers going to be over time? The pucks last forever and can be replaced at a buck and change per pop.

Maybe the pucks work so well in some scenarios (like ours) because they’re more effective at managing the energy -- including reflecting it back away from the component -- even if they don’t convert as much of it to heat. Or maybe they just work better because there’s more mass of stuff there than in the stingy audiophile feet (at 10x - 50x the cost or more). There’s much more of the "active" material in a puck than in a Herbie’s glider, or a Gaia III, or Orea (a lot of which appears to just be an impressive looking metal shell).

I don't even want to look at my stash of ISOAcoustics and Herbie's footers right now lol. If I weren't so lazy they'd all be posted for sale already.

In the US there is the added advantage that Ice Hockey is a popular sport.

Asking for spent pucks to be put to one side to be picked up when a batch are available, will offer an experience with a valued footer that has a difference to its elasticity through the usage it has incurred.

As stated previously, I used Squash Balls in a Spent condition to experience their influence with a noticeable change to the elasticity. 

@pindac Yup, that is why none of us Americans have any teeth. Canadians fight dirty.

OP,

Absolutely. SRA is for micro vibrations, not foot falls. It is for top notch turntables, not to make up for bad environments or substandard tables. This string is too long to re-read every time I run into it again. 
 

For excellent tables that already have good isolation SRA will raise performance another level.

@mulveling -- this thread and your excellent research could not be more timely!  I recently changed turntables and arms, moving to a Kuzma Stabi R and the new Safir 9 tonearm. The change is significant, however I immediately began suffering from footfall inducted skips. I never had this with my Palmer, but they are entirely different systems, so I am on my own journey. 

I added the Kuzma isolation feet and that has helped, but not completely. My next step is to try the bracing you describe, although I can't get my rack as close to the wall as yours. My dealer suggested this bracing and so we will see. I am now going to order some hockey pucks for my rack and will see how that goes. From there, I had looked at the isolation platform you suggested, so that could be next. I am also thinking of a Vibraplane, but hoping not to spend the extra dollars right now after the Safir...

Thank you for the research and for sharing your experiences. I will post back how it goes for me. 

Bracing a rack against a wall could certainly be a good idea, IF the wall itself is not prone to pick up airborne energy from the speakers or vibrate in tune to some local appliance, like maybe a refrigerator if kitchen is next door.  In cases such as those, you are deliberately coupling to another source of spurious energy and then hoping the Auralex (sp?) is protecting you from the deleterious effects.  Best not to use such a wall as a brace in the first place.  My equipment rack backs up to a wall that supports the stairs leading to the second floor of my house; I am quite sure it reacts to footsteps on the stairs, and I would not use that wall as a brace.

@thr1961 There is a decent sum of money parted with to get to the TT>Tonearm>Cart' now in use.

To produce a support structure that can be very satisfying does not take large amounts of monies to begin with.

Have a look at Barry Diament Audio (some claim he gave Townsend Products their earliest ideas to go to market with), some of the methods seen on Diament Audio  are now evolved, where it can be seen others are utilising his suggestions/variants of the suggestions on other forums, it will be speedy to see ideas can be put in place for small monies.

Hockey Pucks and other simplistic footer methods can be compared.

I have revisited my evolvement through materials and it was a material referred to as Sorbofoam that superseded my use of Squash Balls. Sorbofoam is available in different thicknesses and densities. I chose a Hard Foam as I had at the time devices that has substantial weight.

Sorbofoam was later shown to have a worthy alternative, which is a Pipe Lagging Material from the Company Armaflex. I have both of these foam materials in my possession today and still utilise them during trials and keep them in use if they are the preferred material.

To experience any of the above is not going to impact on the finances, the real requirement is making time to change materials and evaluate how they are offering a change for the better/worse, or just a tweak to the sonic seasoning.

Any change of material will create a change to the sonic to manifest, the better trained the ear, the quicker the sonic change will be detected.

The assessment is for the best, when it is being identified that a new manifestation n has developed.

Quite simply, a certain area of the frequency range becomes improved and as a result details from within this frequency range become more evident. Once there is feel for it, there becomes the intent, to produce a presentation from the frequencies that are the preferred choices for the end user. As stated, I like Transparent/Lean, which to me is a Tight, Clean Rolled Off Bass Note (No perception of Overhang). This base condition, enables a well Project Upper Mid' and High Frequency. Then there is the quirk, I don't want this for all Genre listened to, like the perception a Rich Tone is present, I can achieve this instantly with a couple of minor changes.     

I have had an experience as a result of working with structures and Platter Mats, where a Backing Vocalist on a Track was quite subdued and fixed in the Background. Following toying with Structure and Platter Mats, this Vocal changed to the point the Backing Vocal was prominent and almost on parity with the lead vocal. I have no doubt in my mind for that the Vocal during this part of the recording, was what the engineer was wanting, the vocal was intended to become that prominent. Small Monies and a fair allocation of time enabled that experience to manifest.       

@thr1961 No rack should be rickety but bracing yours will probably not help. I suggest you do not waste money and go right to a low profile MinusK platform. You have a fine turntable and it deserves more than 1/2 baked solutions. The MinusK will stop the foot fall problems and give you a black background like you have never heard before. You will wind up there eventually, there is nothing better. 

@mijostyn frames the challenge correctly. As for footfalls and other structural borne vibrations, there are only two solutions—siting your table on the basement level directly on the concrete foundation (or forming a concrete tower that rises to the main level—yes, some folks have done this!) OR going with a wall mount shelf, which MUST be fastened to a load bearing (usually exterior) wall. IME these are the only ways to address structural issues like bouncy floors and washing machines. The other suggestions offered here are not going to get you there—period. Once properly anchored and isolated, you can go after the airborne vibrations generated by playing music. Some of the solutions offered here make sense. After years of experimentation, I’ve got my Target PS-1 oversized shelf screwed directly into the studs on an exterior wall. I applied some foam weatherstripping to the mounting surface as an interface between the back of the shelf and the drywall and used the largest wood screws possible along with the largest washers possible to ensure that the shelf is securely fixed to the wall—I can hang on the end of the shelf and it doesn’t budge. Then I replaced the upward facing spikes with Herbies Giant Gliders and the MDF shelf with a 19”x21” Symposium Svelt Shelf (a drop in swap). My table sits directly on the Svelt Shelf and has its own integrated aircraft aluminum base with Isoacoustics footers (comes standard with the PF Harmony). While my rack and table are too close to my speakers—no better option in our current home—I can crank it up to unlimited volume and all I get is clean, clean music. FWIW my speakers are spiked to the suspended floor with Track Audio footers—highly recommended. You can see pics on my systems page.

It’s always a good idea to locate your floor-located turntable stand as close to an outside wall as possible. Or right above a support beam for the suspended floor. That’s where the floor is most stable, least bouncy.

Some new houses are built with the sheetrock walls mounted onto not wood 2 x 6's, but thin aluminum structures. Not suitable for a wall-mounted turntable shelf.

@thr1961 You stated "but hoping not to spend the extra dollars right now after the Safir..."

My comments and suggestions offered were to encourage the investigation and experiences that be learned from, as a result carrying out trials that have proved quite valuable in my listening environment. Nothing ventured, Nothing Gained, is the usual outcome of not being inquisitive and creating experiences.

There is a suggestion you bypass the ideas referred to, that are made by most of the contributors to the thread, negate all forum members reported on experiences and go straight for a $5K ancillary.

This is a typical Gon response from a select very small selection of members using the Analog Section. These few are always speedy at bringing to the forefront, that it is a multi $$$$$$'s fix. Very Very few are taking these individuals advice as far as I can work out.

@thr1961 Why not add a new support for the turntable only on your (unused?) fireplace?

Never Done with the Humble Hockey Puck

A glorious use not yet mentioned is under a subwoofer. I use 4 stacks of 2 under the 4 spike discs. This is a very substantial sub and over the years the discs have settled partially into the rubber. The tightening of the bass is a constant joy.

Another use is on top of equipment to inhibit vibration. There is no rule here, it either does something or it does not. When it does, it is necessary to experiment with quantity, placement, and stacking. Small devices often benefit with one or two on top. Speaker resonances can be dissipated into heat with a creative arrangement. Watch out for devices that generate heat. You do not want to prevent its escape. Sometimes folded rugs underneath and HP on top do magic for small devices.

My favorite implementation was discovered on a slow day when I got curious. My Project RPM 10 table is the original model release, and it was their highest model at the time. They over time redesigned the basic concept in beefing up this and that through several iterations to their current RPM 10 Carbon. Could the humble HP come to the rescue of my wallet and get me close to that latest? I thought so. Three stacks of two under the isolation table! Between the platter and the arm there is just enough room to place HP on both sides of the plinth. I could add them very gently while playing an LP and hear immediately any sonic difference. I started in the front and added 1 and 1/2 HP. Yes, I sawed one in half to squeeze it between the platter and arm rest. The benefits were obvious. Then in the rear I added a stack of two, and WOW, I am on to something! Is this as good as it gets? While continuing to play the LP I gently dropped a third onto the rear and noise continued to vanish. When I dropped a fourth onto stack I got DEAD SILENCE. I knew I had achieved nirvana with this table. Now I don’t have to spend $6000 chasing the latest design, just the cost of 12 HP. It sounds Devine!!! And it is not visually intrusive in any way, blending into the dark-grey carbon-fiber modernist design.

I always keep a bag on hand because I might need to supplement the 80 that currently reside in my system!

Mijostyn, You wrote, " The MinusK is so good at it because it is tuned in both the horizontal and vertical directions but put it on an unstable platform and it is a nightmare."  Your sentence is easy to understand and makes superficial good sense, but it occurs to me that the Minus K ought to work even on an unstable platform, just thinking in terms of relativity theory.  The top shelf on the Minus K doesn't "know" whether the disturbance is coming from above or below, so I wonder whether there would be a problem in actual practice.  Have you had the direct experience? Or are you saying there is an imperfection in the Minus K design such that it is set into random motion by frequent disturbances of its equilibrium?  I am not saying you are wrong, just thinking out loud.  I've observed the Minus K built in to the Helix turntable but never owned one.

To be clear, the wall in question here is an outside wall. There is indeed a lot of vibration energy going through the walls too, but the Auralex foam tile I’m using to couple the rack to the wall helps reject a lot of this. It’s a give-and-take between how tightly coupled the rack is for support, and how much vibration transfers from the wall. I still use a CMS Black Platinum filter for the top self which is NOT in contact with the bracing material, and I’m certain it’s doing a great job filtering out the additional wall energy. The main net result from wall contact here is it effectively damps and attenuates footfall shockwaves.

I’ll say again the Minus-K looks amazing. If I got one, I would still keep this rack bracing arrangement. Any isolation platform, whether passive or active, is going to work better on as a solid support as possible. The solution I have now, culminating in the Townshend platform, finally meets my needs for this system.

I’m not advertising this as a one-size-fits all solution or a "reference" system of any kind. It’s simply scaled down version of my main loft rig (with a lot of hand-me-down components), for enjoyment in my girlfriend’s (challenging) suburban home. I could NOT get problem free vinyl sound in this home (even tried different rooms) until I hit on this combination of isolation elements. Previous attempts experienced the whole gamut of ills, from massive acoustic feedback to the usual footfall skips. No warranty, implied or otherwise lol. 

LOVE the stories on hockey puck benefits :) Keep telling me about your rack bracing solutions too.

Screed Flooring laid in Laboratories has additional measures put in place for certain Companies designs for how a Screed Floor is to be laid onto substrate materials. Certain Pharmaceutical and Research Companies, especially those turning over 40 Billion+ annually are taking vibration being noticeable in the Lab' seriously and are putting quite a lot of engineering research into pre-screed laying measures being in place that are serving to isolate the screed from the energies transferred through a buildings super structure. This is created by using substrate materials that are highly effective at stopping energy transferral to the Screed. 

I learnt of this as a result of having a good communication/friendship develop with a Quality Manager responsible for producing Laboratory Flooring on a project I have been involved in, when I was informed the Screed Floor was designed to be de-coupled from the structure as a means to minimise energy transferral and reduce vibration within a Lab', as well as Floor Finishing materials also being selected with this same goal in mind as well I was all ears.

I have this specialised Substrate Material at home and in use as part of a Structure on my system, it is assembled as a 500mm Deep Lamination. This has a Hard Foam Layer upon it and is topped with a 200Kg Granite Engineers Flat Plate mounted on it. 

Again not many are experiencing their Audio Equipment on this type of structure, and this has proved to be a killer to build, definitely a young mans sport, but also serves a role as a superb support for my Amplification and with another Tier Structure placed on it, works superb as a mounting location for an Idler Drive TT. 

I am sure I can go out and spend £1K+ on a version of a Support Structure for my Amp's, but I have no asurity the items utilised are able to come near the method I have evolved to having adopted, that has proved to be substantially less than the commercial route offerings.   

Well, I have $20 worth of hockey pucks en route to my house. My back wall is external and load bearing, so I will be trying a variation on the bracing, getting materials as high on the wall as I can. There is a window that will limit it slightly, but I have everything I need so it's just my time!

For what it's worth, my rack is from Core Audio designs and is both insanely heavy and well built and each level is treated with dampening materials inserted in the base of each shelf. This means, of course, is that I have to take everything off the rack to get pucks underneath it, unless I can line up two trustworthy power lifters to pick up what is probably 600 pounds of gear and rack!

If steps two and three don't do it, I have the option of trying out a vibraplane. I may alsto try the Townsend, but plan to take it step by step. 

I certainly don’t advocate getting all spendy on a Minus K if you can solve a footfall problem less expensively. I couldn’t for a couple reasons- one, the structure of the house- it is an 1880s landmark that was painstakingly rebuilt from the original wood (longleaf pine and shiplap) but the floors are springy and the walls could not support the weight of the table (245 lbs) even with a steel frame installed. I had a structural engineer come in to advise. Note that the room where the hi-fi is located has been modernized- downstairs is all original wainscoting, shutters, transom windows above the interior and exterior doors, elaborate door frames and pocket doors, etc.

What I did was install a subfloor beneath the front end area- made of two layers of marine ply with a barn mat on top-- thing is dead level.

The MinusK does allow you to adjust for an uneven floor but it adds another variable and to top that off, my linear tracking arm needs to see a slight tip up in the front right corner--it’s a very fine adjustment that is made by playing with the arm and watching its travel-- something a level or other measuring device would not enable me to zero in. The net result is that I can play this table without issue. Here’s what it looks like using the MinusK stand (which is also adjustable). There is an HRS platform between the Minus K and the table.

The Plinth underneath the Racks is something that I have done.

The Racks in my set up are mounted on two Steel Sheets 1100mm x 700mm x 12mm. The two steel sheets also have their own support Structure underneath produced from Granite and Hard Foam. It is this foundation that was the game changer for me, the improvement that was noticed has been notable and will be maintained. 

The fact that Densified Wood has been offering real improvement on the top of the Rack System, leaves the question does the inclusion of Densified Wood at the Base of the System produce a further attraction to how the structure performs.

A friend and I are also seriously considering a Rack Produced from Densified Wood, but for me there is a deep ingrained sentiment attached to the Racks I am using.  

"Yup, that is why none of us Americans have any teeth. Canadians fight dirty."

Up here pucks were being used in the late seventies for feet on equipment...

and for the record, we dont fight dirty.

We just fight, thats why all you americans need guns....

It’s so amazing to read about hockey pucks. I thought I was the only one to use these. Back decades before anyone in Houston knew what they were I had my sister-in-law in Boston send me some. That’s all I’ve used for spinning LPs for longer than I can remember. Still haven’t found anything I like better. :(

Well, still learning to post images here. :)

I give up. F it. :)

Duck, if the image is already on the web (in my case the above from a web site I control), you simply capture the image address and use the tool that looks like a panorama, open and paste in the image address.

I don’t know if A-gon supports images directly. If it doesn’t you can use a free photo library-- I use Flicker-- upload the image there, then you need to paste the BB code or whatever it is called from the image hosting service into your post.

I’m sure there is a "help" function here somewhere, but that’s pretty much how I do it.

A lot of sites don’t want to support the bandwidth required for direct posting of photos, thus the indirect methods mentioned above.

This seems to be consistent with the approach I take: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-to-upload-photos-in-a-post#:~:text=Select%20any%20picture%2C%20right%20click,Easy%20Peasy. 

@has2be I agree no such thing as fighting dirty. 
 

Yet, we have guns because it’s our right we fought for when we declared independence from England :)

Yet, we have guns because it’s our right we fought for when we declared independence from England :)

well aware of the history but I think it was taxation with little representation future Americans rightly ran from. Your constitution was the right to bear arms to prevent any future governments from screwing with we the people....not to kill one another because of who you vote for or your skin color or because someone hurt your feelings...

alas...if I lived there with crime as it is in the major cities...Id be packing ....its bad up here too with sensless shootings too...were a tenth of your population with well over 10 % of the crime....its not a good look for either side of our borders...music more than ever is a small but great escape from a large amount of crazy....

C’mon, guys....

Everyone was having a pleasant esoteric time talkin’ tables....and there’s much better forums ’elsewhere’ to have a ’gun fuss’.

A’Gon....Not the OK Corral.....please?

PM's closer, even....

@asvjerry 

Everyone still is being pleasant

Jerry. Sometimes its just not as easy

to keep your head in the sandbox all the time.

Speaking of sandboxes, also a good way to protect

those tiny vibrations from unwanted "other" noise in 

your environent....🙄

@has2be ....*S*  Just a friendly reminder...;)

Too many times I/we've seen threads unravel into rancour...and we're all tired and dismayed over weaponry 'issues' of late...

As for sandboxes, Yes, better used to damp that unwanted 'vibe(s) in ones' environment...'low tech' and a good ROI. *G*

As for heads in sand, not a good idea ever....gets' in eyes/nose/ears/mouth and hard to breathe in....

Yes, let’s keep it veered towards friendly and non-political -- or at least less political since it's hard to avoid these days. Sure we’re mostly Americans and Canadians here; we generally like each other but also love to rip on each other :)

@whart my gosh, that is a beautiful setup and isolation solution you’ve built! Clearly a labor of love.

Hey Folks,

Hopefully within the next two weeks I will have my TechDas III Premium S.  Note the S as that denotes the newer isolation feet.  Initially it will sit a bit behind but within two feet of my right speaker.  It will be on an inexpensive but fairly stable rack about 2.5 to 3 feet off the ground.  Floor is short pile carpet with a pad.  Speaker is a ported speaker with a downward firing port and two front firing ports at the bottom front.  Also a 12" sub is 4 feet away.  I don't play the system loud, with 85DB being the max peaks.

If I have a feedback or other similar issue will the Minus K help?  I have a Symposium Iso something, would that be enough?

Thanks,
Robert

Hey Folks,

Hopefully within the next two weeks I will have my TechDas III Premium S. Note the S as that denotes the newer isolation feet. Initially it will sit a bit behind but within two feet of my right speaker. It will be on an inexpensive but fairly stable rack about 2.5 to 3 feet off the ground. Floor is short pile carpet with a pad. Speaker is a ported speaker with a downward firing port and two front firing ports at the bottom front. Also a 12" sub is 4 feet away. I don’t play the system loud, with 85DB being the max peaks.

If I have a feedback or other similar issue will the Minus K help? I have a Symposium Iso something, would that be enough?

Hi Robert,

Every room & system is different so it will be a "wait and see" scenario. You have some factors in your favor:

• You listen ~ 15dB less loud than me 😅
• Your turntable has integrated isolation feet. My Clearaudio has direct-coupling spikes that don’t address these bigger problems.
• Shorter rack is better. Mine is 40" tall.

Then we have the unknowns:

• Just how rigid is that rack of yours?
• What is the structure of your floor -- this matters more than what’s on its surface. If your floor is not rigid enough, then it won't be enough for your rack to be rigid. That's where the wall bracing comes into play. 
• Close proximity between the table and 1 or more speakers, ESPECIALLY a port, can be problematic. Applies doubly for a subwoofer. I don’t have a subwoofer to contend with in any of my systems. Do you have a high pass filter on the main speakers, or are they run full range? If filtered, that could at least protect your mains from certain kinds of dangerous feedback issues (woofer flapping, amp clipping), though the subwoofer will have to be robust enough to deal with it.

The Symposium was of no help in my case, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be effective in your setup. Give it a try if necessary. The Townshend platform & rack bracing was ample solution in my case (the Townshend alone may be enough), so I think that should be explored as a cheaper alternative to the Minus K. But you’ve certainly got enough table to more than justify that too!

Those Air Force tables are gorgeous btw! The III Premium is what I’d go for in the line, too. I’m jealous :)

@thr1961 Congrats on the new table and tonearm. I strongly recommend starting with an S or M level HRS platform instead of going right to a Minus K or Vibraplane. It is entirely possible that the Townshend seismic platform will also work with your table. Much easier to sell an HRS or Townshend platform if it doesn't work for you. 

Bracing your stand may also help with the footfalls issue. 

Enjoy!

Really good to see that the Townshend solution I suggested (and supplied!) to you has worked wonders for you Mike @mulveling. I thought it would as I've seen this situation many many times. It's not for no reason that I recommend either the platform or a single podium (supplied by myself via Townshend) in all my custom Rock turntable builds. In my system I use podiums under my JBL 4367 speakers and podiums (or platforms where a podium can't be accomodated) underneath my turntables. It's generally how I like my turntables - non-suspended (for the stability of speed)  but on Townshend platforms for isolation. My Rock Reference turntable is also suspended on the completely floated Townshend Seismic Stand. This is great, because it isolates not only the turntable but the Manley Steelhead phono stage and PSU as well as my Krell KSA 100. So it isolates many products in one. Sadly it is no longer made due to the increased costs in our post-covid society! But any  make of rack can also now be supported on seismic pods, bars and corners, as we do for all our Townshend demo's in the UK. So pleased you're having success. Let me know if I can be of any further help for both this, or the main system, but for now, enjoy!  All the best.

Matt (The RockDoc)

And don't forget fellas, if you  already have a turntable shelf you really like (the carbon fiber one from BDR, for instance), you may use four of the individual Seismic Pods under that shelf. Much cheaper than the Seismic Platform.  And if your loudspeakers are already fitted with an outrigger-style base, the Pods may be used in place of the spikes. Again, considerably cheaper than the Seismic Podium.

This thread is very good reading as I'm building a rack that'll house a TT. My iso Gias are not to be used under the table from what others say! I have two sets of Townshend seismic pods the C ones. Don't they have a colored dot on them, not using them now. I didn't like them as they're to springy, maybe I have the wrong ones? 

Yes special shout-out to @mmcnult1 (Matt McNulty / The RockDoc) -- I’ve been friends with him on Facebook for a while now, and he’s been an all-around helpful and friendly guy in several of the audiophile groups there. I knew he does a lot of work with Townshend products (specifically the tables) so when I realized a Seismic Platform might be the right idea, I approached him to help coordinate the purchase. Smooth sailing as expected -- absolutely 100% recommended; if you’re curious go talk to him :)

Of course Matt endorsed Townshend isolation as the total solution to my issues, and he was spot-on. He actually recommended a single podium over the platform, and I would’ve LOVED that solution, but simply couldn’t make its outrigger footprint work without a totally new rack. I’m still looking at the huge Master Innovation in my big rig and trying to figure out how to make a Podium work there. I don’t have the footfall or feedback issues there (ever since I got the Maxxum rack), but it can’t hurt to further clean up any stray energy, right? Plus I think the podiums look wicked cool :) Hmm, maybe on my beastly VAC amps...

This thread is very good reading as I’m building a rack that’ll house a TT. My iso Gias are not to be used under the table from what others say! I have two sets of Townshend seismic pods the C ones. Don’t they have a colored dot on them, not using them now. I didn’t like them as they’re to springy, maybe I have the wrong ones?

@brunomarcs  I have B cells and this table weighs probably 30 - 35 pounds with all clamping. They have to be somewhat springy for good effect on a given load -- I found they compressed about as much as I expected; just a bit as you can see in pic. The fine leveling settled over a few days under load. There’s a fellow on a Facebook turntable group, and his pods show a LOT more compression -- quite honestly, no I would not like that. I’d try the next level up of load cells in that case.

And don’t forget fellas, if you already have a turntable shelf you really like (the carbon fiber one from BDR, for instance), you may use four of the individual Seismic Pods under that shelf. Much cheaper than the Seismic Platform. And if your loudspeakers are already fitted with an outrigger-style base, the Pods may be used in place of the spikes. Again, considerably cheaper than the Seismic Podium.

@bdp24  Yep, the Pods and Bars are intriguing options. I just love the look of the Podiums but those outriggers eat up a lot of real estate (though I understand their function) and space is unfortunately at a premium in both my rigs...

mulveling, I'm late to the party but want to add my thanks for your information and starting this helpful discussion.

Somewhere I read a recommendation for this product.  I've not tried it but it seems to be a very inexpensive device to try.  It is similar to those suggested by drbond.

https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Anti-Vibration-Rubber-isolation/dp/B01IU6WT5O/ref=sr_1_2?crid=14TMEUKR93JE3&keywords=isolation%2Bpads&qid=1684506769&sprefix=Isolation%2Bpads%2Caps%2C103&sr=8-2&th=1

I recently bought a Technics SL-1200G which is mounted on a Target stand.  It is a new home with engineered wood beams in the floor and I don't feel any spring or flex.  Of course that could exist in modest measure.  This system sounds very good, but it might be improved further.

Just an additional follow up -- I’m really enjoying this setup now. It sounds absolutely wonderful - engaging, organic, full-bodied, liquid. Good depth to the image. Very smooth. VERY low listening fatigue. All the things I like. Absolutely fantastic Tannoy Prestige sound from these Glenair 10s. Soundstage and low bass performance are a bit constrained by this small room, as to be expected. Nothing that jostles me out of the music, though.

I’ve played really quite loud now with absolutely NO sign of strain from the amps. Footfalls are incredibly well damped -- even at these volume levels (with needle resting still in the groove) there is hardly any audible & visible feedback through the speakers now.

I normally relegate digital sources to my headphone setups (of which I have quite nice ones, especially the Stax based ones), but as a "sanity check" I occasionally pull some digital source out to a Tannoy rig. I did this last night -- the digital rig on hand was nothing special, but serviceable: Questyle CAS192D DAC, Audiophilleo 1 w/ PurePower USB converter, Sony NW-WM1A DAP with 1TB of lossless FLACs and high res USB output dock (streaming via Node 2i sounds significantly worse than this DAP). It sounds OK but even in this room, with all its energy problems, the vinyl setup absolutely CURB STOMPS this digital rig for enjoyment factor. Not even close. This happens almost every time I try to compare digital to vinyl. No, it’s not at all a fair $ to $ source comparison but I don’t really care as the majority of my music collection is on vinyl :)

mulveling, I'm late to the party but want to add my thanks for your information and starting this helpful discussion.

Somewhere I read a recommendation for this product.  I've not tried it but it seems to be a very inexpensive device to try.  It is similar to those suggested by drbond.

https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Anti-Vibration-Rubber-isolation/dp/B01IU6WT5O/ref=sr_1_2?crid=14TMEUKR93JE3&keywords=isolation%2Bpads&qid=1684506769&sprefix=Isolation%2Bpads%2Caps%2C103&sr=8-2&th=1

I recently bought a Technics SL-1200G which is mounted on a Target stand.  It is a new home with engineered wood beams in the floor and I don't feel any spring or flex.  Of course that could exist in modest measure.  This system sounds very good, but it might be improved further.

@pryso The sandwich type pads are an interesting alternative to hockey pucks. I'm all for these effective & affordable products. They're probably at least as effective as most audiophile footers ($$$), if not MORE so in many cases. Of course if you have severe energy issues (like in my room here) they'll hit their limits and then it's time to explore more significant (and costly) options like the Townshend. But for moderate energy issues, I think these cheap products are fantastic. 

Sounds like you have a very structurally sound room and you've smartly used a wall mount to boot. I bet that is a great setup! Enjoy :) 

@mulveling, yes Target make wall mounts but mine is a 5-shelf floor model.  The unit itself is steel I believe and quite heavy, so with added components (the Technics is surprisingly heavy) the total mass is substantial.

Then beyond the turntable I need to experiment with the amp and speakers (currently factory rubber feet).  Minimizing vibrations seems a good idea with everything but the stylus. ;^)

@mulveling, yes Target make wall mounts but mine is a 5-shelf floor model.  The unit itself is steel I believe and quite heavy, so with added components (the Technics is surprisingly heavy) the total mass is substantial.

Then beyond the turntable I need to experiment with the amp and speakers (currently factory rubber feet).  Minimizing vibrations seems a good idea with everything but the stylus. ;^)

Ah, my bad - my brain filled in "wall mount" when it saw "Target" because they're known for that. Anyways, sounds like you have a structurally sound floor, which is worth its weight in gold for these applications. Definitely, amp & speakers are worthy of experimentation too! :) 

@mulveling When extending the investigation of Structures, to the experiencing how these can impact when used under Speakers, if the design is a Cabinet Type, either Stand Mounted or Floor Standing. To date, I have not encountered a demonstration using suspension under the Cabinet that has not had a positive impact. The suspension has an immediate effect on the tidying up of the lower frequencies, the change for the betterment is immediately discernible.

The benefits of this overall takes a little time to assess, in my own system working with my Floor Standing Cabinet Speakers mounted on a Two Tier Plinth Structure, the addition of AT 616 Footers was the 'cherry on the cake', the overall presentation become gathered and the Bass Notes jumped out as having a perception of being quite honest as a rendition. Further extended listening was leaving the perception the Mid's and Upper frequencies were more projected and with a much improve detail being discovered. Notes/vocals were noticeable for having a envelope that could be traced as the sound formed into something that has a sense of being tangible. The sound produced, certainly was seeming to be coupled to the room with an improvement and this was undoubtedly more attractive to experience.

Valve Amp's are really going to Benefit for the Structures placed under them.

I have done a lot of work with all Valve Amp's/Valve Devices owned, to keep it simple and to create a worthwhile experience, the Phonostage is a good device to use to learn from. It can soon be learnt where the detail able to be produced is to become smeared, or much improved upon, through the use of differing materials and configurations for the structure.