Tube Preamp with Solid State Amp?

I have a BLUESOUND Vault >MFA MAGUS A2 TUBE PREAMPLIFIER > MIetner MTR101 solid state  MONOBLOCKS > BOZAK URBAN Speakers; I got these used via Facebook Marketplace and was lucky to have experienced and friendly sellers and I was given good advice by them. I ended with this  setup that is fantastic! I want to add a higher end streamer DAC turntable but not until my budget allows and if it doesn’t allow I am fine as is. 

Pairing tube preamps with various SS amps, Parasound, Pass Labs, FirstWatt is a common and recurring thread here on Agon.

Even Nelson Pass put together a DIY Nutube flat tube preamp design to pair along with his own SS FirstWatt amplifiers. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Increasing trend since streaming of music has become more popular to help take the "edge’ off...

Parasound:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tube-preamp-recommendations-please-to-partner-with-parasound-...

Pass Labs:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-6ns7-preamp-for-a-pass-labs-xa25-amp/post?highlight=tube...

Nutube DIY:
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_diy_nutube_preamp.pdf

my tubepre amp and ss poweramp is a marriage in heaven , preamp AudioResearch REF 3 ,

poweramp 2 x VK1000 BAT which have to drive B&W 800N

Preamp tubes all 6H30P-DR and NOS Tungsoll 6550 black plate

I've been using a 1981 Conrad Johnson PV2ar tube preamp with a 100W modified Hafler SS amp to drive a pair of Klipschorns and have been entirely satisfied with the sound.
Originally a CJ MV75 tube amp was part of my system but the heat generation, tube costs, and recurring power switch failures (!!) convinced me that maintenance on one tube device was enough. 
Perhaps there are sonic nuances lost by going solid state for the amp....but my system sounds so good the way it is I'll never go back.
If possible, audition multiple amps in your system and pick the one that sounds best to you.

By the way, my Schiit Freya/Had "Firebottle" SEP amp combo cost less than 2 grand (the Had amp was used for a few months), and is an astonishingly coherent and musical system that for my tastes provides what SS gear, try as they may, does not. 2 REL subs for low bass shy Heresy IIIs make it thunder, although I'm tied to efficient speakers (in a good way).

I’m adding an AR tube pre to my system tomorrow. Very interested to see how it sounds. 

Vinnie Rossi LIO with DHT preamp/dac section into internal Mosfet power amplifier. No transformers, No interconnects, power supply isolated from line voltage with Ultra Capacitor bank. External low noise regulated power supply for tube filaments. Runs all manner of DHT tubes - 300b, 2a3, 45's, PX25, PX4 etc... etc. Awesomeness.

Thank you everyone for all the feedback! 

Also looking for some input. I have a CJ mf200 that I just picked up and I’m looking for a tube preamp with a remote. I’m running a MacBook Pro with Jriver, Schiit modi dac and Thiel cs2 speakers. So now I’m looking for a tube preamp for this set up. I have been looking at Jolida jd5t and schiit and a rogue 66 preamps on the used market. I need to stay under the $ 500 range. I could possibly loose the remote if there is a better option for a preamp.

I have Aesthetix Eclipse Linestage and paired it with Aesthetix Atlas mono in the past. Can't literally say it's solid state as Atlas is hybrid amp. It worked so well. Then I replaced the amp with Atma-sphere MA-1. Goosebumps. 

Later I purchased Atma-sphere MP-1 to substitute the Eclipse..I noticed, Aesthetix Eclipse is more like ss preamp but I love this combo. 

So I will need to let go off my Atma-sphere MP-1 preamp.

The tube amp is where the real magic is - actually a SS preamp with tube amp makes more electrical sense as well than the reverse.

do it!!!    i prefer tube preamps and solid state power amps.   Main system puts a cary preamp with my SS monoblocks,  office system is a vincent hybrid integrated amp.    as stated above the tube preamp softens  and smooths the tonality, but the SS power Amps give it immediate punch and dynamism which I haven't found in tube power amps.   I admit i haven't tried it with ultra expensive tube power amps so there may be all tube combinations that kick but in my budget for power
this was the best arrangement  

Am I the only one who uses tubes BECAUSE of the extra detail they add? It’s a very 3D detail, very lifelike.

I don’t find tubes warmer than SS (listen to the "euphonic error" on the original NAD 3020!), except for the warm glow of the tubes themselves.

I’ve been going tube pre & SS amp since 97
All SS before that & needed a change.

There are many tube preamps with different sonic signatures. Some have a nostalgic sound like a CJ or Macintosh.
I would go with VTL. I have for 20+ years.

The VTL preamps are noteworthy. Their design is based on not trying to impart a signature.
I have used a TL-2.5 and then went to the 5.5 (series 1)

Both are pure tube - not hybrid
I would go VTL or Audible Illusions, but it’s VTL for me...

I have a hybrid preamp (VTL 7.5 III) and a Boulder 1060. Best match ever had in my system. Period. 

I use a vintage tube pre-amp (Audio Research LS2 MKII B) with vintage Sumo Andromeda behemoth amps in a bi-amp setup.  I have used and both tried both tube and SS pre-amps before and since and the old king has has never loosened his grip on the throne.  The thing to remember is that your sound will never be better than the tubes you are using, and vintage is generally much better quality and sound.  Of course finding real new old stock tubes (NOS) can be a challenge, not all sellers are trust worthy.  As an example a NOS Siemens and Halske Cca 6922 grey plate used to mean a brand new unused tube in the original box.  Over time the meaning of NOS as it pertains to this tube changed to mean anything that still tested as OK regardless of how many hours it had been used.  Every tube sound different....  have fun.

Main: Audio Research LS-27 with Bryston 4BST3 running Sonus Faber Cremona M's

Office: McIntosh MA 252 (tube front end) Integrated running Chartwell LS3/5A's

My favorite combinations !

For years I used a tubed BAT VK30 preamp with a Bryston 4B SST amp, under the theory that it was the best of both worlds.  Prior to that, I had a Counterpoint hybrid amp and preamp, under the theory that hybrid was the best of both worlds.  I've now gone to all tubes with the BAT preamp and a pair of PrimaLuna mono-blocks, and I've come to believe that the "best of both worlds" theory is just an excuse for a compromise.  Before going to all tubes, I tried bypassing the preamp altogether but, surprisingly, it sounded harsh, so the preamp went back in.  Of course, the Bryston delivered far more power, but I don't notice any lack of power or lack of bass.  To the contrary, there is plenty of bass slam and texture, better midrange detail and transparency, easy, natural, extended highs and a difficult to describe but pleasant, musical quality to the sound.  

Right now,my system consists of an Aric Audio Unlimited tube pre,and a First Watt F5,driving a pair of Graham Chartwell LS3/5’s in a well treated 9x13’ room. To these ears,sounds like wonderful music. I also have a Prometheus TVC passive pre that I swap in from time to time. Right now,I’m really enjoying the distortion that tubes have to offer.  They make my soul smile. 

I personally love that combination. I am running a concert fidelity CF-080LXV2 with 2 Concert Fidelity 200-FX amps. The tubes are on the back of the pre-amplifier and accessible so it is designed for rolling in different tubes.

Long time tube pre/SS amp afectionado here too.  
Big John, I see that you are using a Parasound A-21, which mmemory tells me, has an input impedence of 33K. Just make sure to match the output impedence of your tube pre-amp to the input of your amp.
I've always been told the ratio should be at least 10:1 meaning in your case, the preamp should have no higher than a 3.3K output impedence. Lately, I've seen people that use an even higher ratio of 20:1.   As a "for instance", my good ol' MacIntosh C-20 pr-amp recommend amps with an input impedence of at least 50K.  Violating this rule can lead to a diminished bass response.
Not to worry, you still will have a large amount of pre-amps to choose.

 
jeffjoeblob5 posts
05-10-2020 10:47am
Good sound, in concept. I use an ancient (1963) Macintosh C-20 with solid state amps, with my magneplanars. I've tried other preamps, but none sound as clear an accurate as my old Mac. Whatever you do, get a high quality preamp.

Hey Jeff!   Another member of the C-20 club. Alright!
Got my first C-20 back in 1977, and after I went quadraphonic I bought a second in 1980. Still use both of them: line level - one just before my front channel amp and one just before my rear channel amp. This was long before the term "tube buffer" was ever thought up.
I've had them in for various services over the years, and then sent them both out to a MacIntosh repair facility in Arizona for a general re-cap about 12 years ago.  Don Sachs had them in about seven years ago to refurbish/improve them even more.  My s/n ratio is now almost 10db higher than the original specs.
These are more than a couple of pre-amps. They've become good ol' friends.

I've been running tube preamps and SS amps since my start in this hobby. I currently have a ARC Ref 2 Mark II preamp with a pair of maxed out Odyssey Audio Kismet Monoblocks. I l love the combination and the SQ is great,

I've been using the tubed Pre and SS amp configuration for a few years now.  To me it gives a natural balance to the music, not too tubey (is that even a word) and not as sharp for SS.

Running LTA pre with various Pass/FW amps, similar to @keithc.  Highly recommended

LTA adds some spaciousness and rhythm, overall very subtle tube touch. 

Every now and then I like a tube power amp, but over the long term I gravitate towards what ss power amps have to offer. Not to mention they're getting so damn good these days.  We're living in the golden age of digital and ss.

 

The short answer to your question is YES...depending on the pre-amp.  I had a parasound a23+ and p6 pre and picked up a Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL preamp and put it in my system and it was an eye opening experience.  Never knew my music could sound so good.  I then replaced my amp with a pass labs amp and again it was revelatory.  The catch is the preamp alone cost significantly more than the parasound amp and preamp together...so you do get what you pay for.

Pardon the potential silly question, as I’m new to the idea of separates. I’m thinking of a solid state amp with a tube pre-amp. Do some / many / most tube pre-amps have the ability to bypass the tubes and go solid state when desired? This seems like it would be the best of both worlds, no?

Nope

Short answer, no, hardly any of them.  There are some DACs with both tubed and SS output stages but I cannot think of a single preamp, although I suspect there is one somewhere.  Of the several tubed preamps I have owned, and even the hybrid Lamm amplifiers I have owned, none of them provided what I would consider a tubed sound as you would get with most tubed amplifiers.  As I indicated to the OP earlier in the thread, IME, if you want a tube-type sound, get a tubed amplifier. 

While I have long been a fan of heavy Class A amps that never seem to run out of steam, I have actually gone all tube in my main system and really like it.

I also had tube pre and SS power for a bit. Either can work but it is system dependent and the only way to tell if you prefer it is to give it a try.  You can always sell whichever you like less.

Let's not forget about matching impedance here. Tube power amps typically have higher input impedance, like 100K or so, and will accept any sort of output from a preamp, whereas solid the A21 has only 33K, so you will need a tube preamp with a fairly low output impedance, 3K or lower, prefereably much lower. Many modern tube preamps will work fine but some older ones maybe not. The classic Dyna PAS3-X specified matching to an amp with 100K or higher.

Have been mixing SS and tube for some time but the tube preamp and solid state amp is the least hassle. Tube power with all that heat, run away tubes, and bias adjustments is high maintenance.  I do it (run tube power) in the winter but more heat here May to October is no fun.  I have Audio by Van Alstine tube preamp and MOSFET power in an ancient Dynaco chassis.   I can even stand cd with this combination.  

The Pass XA30.8 input impedance is 100 K ohms balanced, and the input capacitance is just a few picofarads so anything will drive it.

I have a Rogue Metis pre with a SS Amp and love it. Very little noise. What tubes you choose does make a difference so you get to do a little tube rolling and that’s fun.  

I have used a tube preamp (Audio Research Reference 3) with a solid state amp (Audio Research 100.2) with medium efficiency speakers (89-90 dB) with great results. As stated above, it gives you the best of both worlds.  You get the 3D soundstage with tubes and bass control with solid state. For your highly efficient Cornwall IVs however, I would suggest a SET tube amp (e.g., Coincident Dynamo) or a lower wattage tube integrated such as Quicksilver, Leben CSX300 (15 wpc with EL84 tubes) or perhaps Linear Tube Audio 10 watt ZOTL.  I have a Coincident Dynamo 34 SE mark ii amp (8 wpc) with my Klipsch Heresy IIIs, which offers very good bass control for a SET/SEP amp with EL34 tubes, excellent 3D soundstage, but more of a clear detailed solid state like treble (rather than vintage buttery warm tube sound) with rolled off smooth highs. Just one more opinion. Good luck!

If you like Maggies like I do, solid state amps are mandatory and adding a tube pre produces a warmer, more holographic soundstage.  Right now I'm enjoying a Marantz 7c with a Mark Levinson 23.5 amp into Magnepan Tympani 1-D's.  It's H-U-G-E!

I love how every question is viewed as an invitation for a word-salad description of everyone’s systems: "I’ve been running my Socrates Coriander Maxi-Spinnakers (the XLT with the optional basin reinforcements) with a Blue Trident Axolotl directly integrated to a bi-wired Dimetrodon...and that is my bathroom system..."

Not that actual equipment configurations isn’t helpful info...but for some people I think their real hobby isn’t even music or gear, it is simply talking about their gear by concatenating multi-syllabic words. To each his own.

Anyway, a bit of practical input. I’ve had tube power amps and tube preamps and you definitely get the most "tube-like euphony" from power amps. However, I did find that tube rolling super vintage tubes in a good tube preamp (my current one is a BAT...too short a name for the hobby) does also provide that.

BUT: I have found that most new (i.e. modern production) tubes have a more solid state type of sound, or at least do not offer as much of that syrupy euphony. It really is the vintage ones that have the most effect, and those are quite expensive and very difficult to match.

So, if you go tubes, even preamp, be prepared to spend substantial amounts per tube to be able to experiment and get to your desired results. I’m sure the impact of tubes differs gear to gear, and YMMV and all that. This has just been my experience.

I have a PrimaLuna Dialogue for the pre that runs into a pair of Odyssey Khartagos. I love the sound. The only con I can see to this setup is that I keep the SS amps on 24/7 but to conserve the tubes, I only turn them on when listening. This means I have to shut down the SS amps while I power up the tube amp so I don't damage my speakers.

So far, that is the only drawback.

No suggestions on a tube preamp for my CJ mf200?? I’m looking for something with a remote in the $500 used range. I’m new to separates and looking for some good advice. Thanks 

A tube pre amp with your Cornwalls would be an excellent move.

As the proud owner of a pair of K-horns I bought new 42 years ago, I can tell you Klipsch speakers respond well to tubed gear. In fact , I use all tubes with the exception of a Mac 250 that I use to power the bass on my bi-amped speakers.

I use an Eastern Electric tube pre-amp. The build quality is unbelievable, sound is fantastic, and you can tube roll to your hearts content. I have found in most instances my pair of Telefunken 12au7s sound the best out of close to a dozen different brands that I roll, Mullard included. (better bass, stone quiet).

I bought mine 15 years ago, absolutely love it. I'm sure you would too!  Enjoy!!!

Oh, forgot to mention, I use vintage tubes whenever possible. There is a lot of magic built into those old 50s, 60s, 70s built tubes!

No suggestions on a tube preamp for my CJ mf200?? I’m looking for something with a remote in the $500 used range

That's a relatively low budget for decent tube gear unless you are looking small form factor (Pro-Ject boxes) or some of the Chinese brands.  I have liked some of the Chinese gear I've had...Yaquin has some stuff in that price range.  Not sure about remotes. 

Valvet is a good example of a manufacturer that subscribes to the tube pre/solid state amp school of thought. Can read some of my impressions here:
https://taww.co/post/190866808752/valvet-a4-mkii-amp-soulshine-preamp

I also used the Valvet Soulshine tube pre on the Bryston 4B Cubed, and it actually worked decently well as the Valvet has a relatively stout output, but the Bryston has a very low input impedance which isn't very friendly to most tube pres. There was some collapse of the soundstage at lower volume settings, and overall the Pass XP10 was better in that application. The specific tubes and circuit employed will have a heavy bearing on how well it mates with a particular amp.

That all said, and with the disclaimer that I am not at all a fan of tubes in general, I have to agree with other commenters that with a speaker as ostensibly tube-friendly as the Klipsch it's worth exploring a lower-power amp. Parasound amps are nice and clean but in my experience if you can get away with a lower-power tube or Class A solid state amp, you can unlock additional layers of musical nuance and enjoyment. Pass XA25 and Valvet E2 are a couple SS examples that could be magical and I would probably start there as the next step - get the most synergistic amplifier possible for the speakers, then look top optimize the preamp. You likely want something better than the Parasound at that point, but hard to say until you settle on the amp. (I'd also avoid preamps that have a built-in DAC unless you don't have the budget for a comparable outboard DAC.)

What type of music is this for, btw, and how loud do you need it?

After 50 years and 50 pre-amps  I have no doubt that tube pre and SS amp is best in average system .

That said , I have had two tube pres  blow up and  take  10., 000 $ of speaker with it . In todays money more like 15K .

I have Pass XA60.8 amps.  I had the Schiit Freya, I think its a good $ 600 preamp and much better with the balanced connections but it was no where as musical as my Decware CPS3.  The CSP3 is single ended and comes with a bit of hiss and humm. With the balanced connections the Freya was quieter but not quiet.
I bought a used Allnic L-3000.  Super super quiet, super detailed, clean strong bass and as they advertise kinda holographic.  
A really good tube preamp does not come cheap but even relatively inexpensive tube is different form SS and for me preferred.

Your needs and equipment sound very familiar. I am very familiar with the Parasound A21. I prefer the A21 for reasons I can't fully explain and its been my champion amp since 2016. I had cycled thru a few different combinations of solid state & tube models . For my current budget,  nothing has beaten it yet. As for SS preamps , I have tried the Parasound PHP 850(old!), P3(ditto), and New Classic 2100 pre-amps with varying levels of success in achieving the "low volume / full frequency, deep sound field" that I have always sought for my own ears. During this time I experimented with the half step tube buffer options (IFi Tube2 and Jolida SSX ) and eventually settled on keeping them in the signal chain full time. They run between my source (Cary DMS 500 DAC/Streamer) and pre. Both buffers added some of that additional space mentioned earlier but were not enough alone to fully engage my ears.  At my level of investment-SS preamps simply lacked these same factors to fully fill in the space of my listening room.But then the day arrived of trying my first tube preamp. The Vincent SA-1 finally ended the journey. The combination of the A21 and the Vincent is as close to what I can afford and be able to live with on a day to day basis.  The only thing that comes close to that is the Vincent SV-237 integrated (again a SS/Tube hybrid) in my second system.
 I did do some limited experimentation with tube amps. No matter the pre -the Prima Luna Prologue, which was a beautiful and well built amp , just lacked the low volume oomph on the low end. And for those of us in the desert Southwest, it also added an unnecessary amount of warmth to my already toasty room. And whenever a tube amp was in the equation it always-even at low volume- transmitted extra noise and hiss thru my ZU OMEN towers. 
Now this works for me and is not perfect!  I realize a larger investment may change the game. As I listen mostly at low levels and I enthusiastically utilize loudness and tone controls, I do run into some issues when my volume occasionally goes past 8:00 O Clock!  ( This is the portion of the program when somebody will pipe in on a impedance mismatch or a need to throttle down the Parasound's gain for more useful scale from my pre). Anyway hope that helps for perspective.

If you haven’t already, you should check out the Klipsch forum. I think that many who purchase high efficiency speakers do so because they highly value dynamics in the musical presentation, and they want to use them with SET amps. Klipsch and tubes are a magical combination. I remember visiting an audio store in the 70s and being blown away listening to a Sheffield Track record on a system with McIntosh tube gear and Klipschorns.  Solid state amps with Klipsch speakers can be quite good, especially with a warmer presentation offered by the likes of NAD or Parasound that takes some of the edge off an otherwise strident fatiguing treble. But most Klipsch Heritage line 2 channel systems I am quite certain are being driven by a tube amp.  If you decide to experiment with a tube preamp, I would suggest a used Audio Research preamp with a more euphoric sound rather than something like C-J with coloration, given that your Parasound amp is already on the warm side. I think you are wise however to try out a low wattage tube amp that can be a relatively low cost experiment (e.g., Decware, Coincident, Bottlehead if you have DIY leanings). 

Autocorrect euphoric ended up euphoric. 
And one more thing for jji666 (?Lucifer), I wasn’t sharing my gear and difficult audiophile journey to brandish my wares, but just offer my experience. So speak for yourself.