I'm not here claiming the Salvation is going to sound better than any other tt out there. As I explained before I'm never going to hear even 10% of top end tts out there.
But I do feel that the direct rim drive/air bearing linear arm technology v. likely provides a presentation different to that from the usual belt drives, surely we can agree on this?
What I'm trying to promote is that maximising timing and torque by non-belt technology, together with minimising tracking errors via linear tracking technology, provides a sound so fundamentally different than any other belt drive/pivoted arm combination that I've auditioned, at a real world price, that I just want to spread the word.
Yes, combining tonal accuracy, transparency and precise speed control is paradigm busting - it's so surreal to hear the best attributes of analogue and digital sound presentation in the same package.
Stringreen, TOTALLY understand you not wanting to burn your fingers twice. |
"One thing that VPI, Sota, SME etc. won't be able to provide is a paradigm busting approach to getting the best out of analogue, technology that emphasises all it's postitive attributes with few of the negatives associated with more traditional technologies that these established companies are limited to offering."
Spirit, what do you mean by this? Could you elaborate? |
Spiriofmusic...I certainly don't wish you evil, but I have been stung too many times with wonderful products that have failed the marketplace...and too I have been greatly supported by Ayre, Vandersteen, VPI, Benz, Sennheiser,....and feel much more comfortable knowing that I am not out here alone. |
Stringreen, I understand your reservations re Trans Fi being a small name with no substantial reputation like the names you have mentioned. This is very true, although Vic has been making his arm for several years now, and this has proved to be reliable and extremely good VFM. The Salvation has been selling for over a year now and is developing a similarly positive reputation. Additionally, it is a cottage industry, Vic can only build to order, and indeed he wouldn't be able to cope with a mountain of orders.
One thing that VPI, Sota, SME etc. won't be able to provide is a paradigm busting approach to getting the best out of analogue, technology that emphasises all it's positive attributes with few of the negatives associated with more traditional technologies that these established companies are limited to offering.
But you pays your money and you takes your chances...I did, and haven't looked back. |
I personally can't understand why anyone would get involved with this turntable. With the likes of VPI, Sota, SME, etc. who will solidly support the owner with a business that is a proven going concern and who will be there for their customers 3 years from now I can't see the benefit of this proposition. |
Dgarretson, I have to agree with you. I can't add to your technical analysis, but this arm is a MARVEL of tracking and neutrality.
Before buying it, I was really unsure about the maintenance issues of using an air bearing linear tracking arm. It's only downside is a real need for perfect level, freedom of air supply (reas. easy to achieve), and isolation from vibration (a little more tricky, I'm having to resort to a wall shelf to eliminate floor borne disturbances).
However it's upsides are really decisive. Dominant amongst these is unbelievable tracking esp. towards end of side/lead out grooves: I can honestly say that there is a real stability of sound reminiscent of the best of digital, that means cart tracking toward the end of lp play is as good as when the stylus hits the grooves as an lp side starts to play. |
Dover, to suggest that the Trans-Fi arm "is not a very good design at all" due to possible bearing wobble ignores a complex of variables.
Unlike any captured air bearing design, this is a mechanical pivot arm in the vertical plane and an air bearing in the horizontal plane. As all air bearings move freely in the horizontal, the possibility of wobble is relevant only in the vertical plane. The vertical needle pivot points hang in a cradle well below the air bearing. (The two needle pivots are also spaced apart by a generous 2.5" for stability.) It would be complex math to model this system precisely, however it is easy to see that the system is relatively stable, as by definition the mechanical pivot is absorbing most of the vertical dynamics of the arm. (Picture a see-saw that pivots on the seat of a swing. Will the action of the see saw move the swing?)
The stability of the air bearing itself is a function of a several factors: the surface area of the bearing(a generous 14 sq. in.), the length of the sled(a generous 7"x 2" "air foil" that rides like an airplane wing (an airplane wing of sufficient size for its fusilage and cargo becomes stable, No?)
There are also other variables operating on the comparison bewteen these arms: short arm vs. long arm resonance characteristics, lighter vs. heavier vertical inertial mass characteristics, low vs. high air pressure turbulence/pulsing characteristics transmitted to the stylus.
The complex of variables in each these arm should be considered in totality. As in all things audio, it's disingenuous to generalize.
Lewn, BTW there is not moisture issue with this arm since there is no compressor tank. The bearing operates at the same 1 psi output as produced by the aquarium pump. |
Redglobe, I'm not sure there is an article that compares the Salvation to Ttweights. One thing I can say is that although the two designs are similar ie direct rim drive, Vic the designer of the Salvation assures me his motor is very different ( I assume superior?) to that of the Ttweights.
I do know Vic investigated the Teres Verus and in the end scrapped the idea of using it, preferring to build one up from scratch.
Vic's main advantage is being able to provide very stable, very high torque to the massive oversized platter (it is next to impossible to slow the platter manually without using lots of pressure, v. different from my low torque belt drive), at the same time effectively draining the vast majority of vibrations away from the platter hence minimising rumble.
The day to day result of this is only occasional need to tinker with speed settings, never mid lp, and a soundstage so open and transparent that no subjective evidence of rumble is present.
I still contend the tt/arm combination is the biggest bargain in the high end today. |
My view would be that the TT is not a bad buy, assuming it works as claimed, but I dont think the tonearm is a very good design at all, mainly because the air bearing is a floating style, prone to wobble. If you compare it to the Eminent Technology, the ET has a captured air bearing which will be far more rigid. Furthermore the ET will have less resistance in the vertical movement as it is an air bearing vs the double knife edge used in the Terminator. Finally the claim of a light moving arm mass of 80g compares unfavourably to the ET2 which totals 25g plus decoupled counterweight of 5-15g, so the ET has far less inertia in the horizontal plane.
|
Redglobe, The TT Weights turntables of which these guys are speaking ARE rim drive types, so their comments are not really OT. Plus, it ain't your thread. It might be interesting for someone in the know to dissect the differences between Salvation and TTW tts, because it seems there is a difference in the perception of their respective performance capabilities. Why would that be? Based only on photos it seems they are more alike than they are different. |
Guys, this thread is off track. It is about the Transfi Salvation turntable and the sonic attributes of rim drive. I would like to hear others input on the Transfi and its comparison to other rim drives. |
Sksos1
I didn't need a timeline. A simple strobe showed wild variations in both 33 and 45 rpm. Additionally, the speed would vary without touching the motor controller.
The owner sent me about 10 different pulleys, an external armboard, and a series of "drive rings" none of which solved the problems.
Mine, and I won't purport to speak for others, was a poorly designed product.
IMO and YMMV |
Sksos1, The Timeline has humbled owners of DD, belt and rim drive tables. It can be quite cruel. I did try in on my old table and it clearly showed that it was fast. With no speed adjustability, it was quite an eye-opener. I'm waiting for someone to start a thread which lists results for the Timeline on various tables. |
Audiofeil ~ I bought 2 TTWeights rim drive tables and my own and my customers tables while they sounded ok would not hold a correct speed this based on the Timeline. Dont know if this has been rectified in recent models but both of us were highly disappointed.
(Dealer disclaimer) |
SpiritofMusic, Can you provide the link to the article that compares the TTW and the Salvation? |
I own one of the TTWeights GEM Ultra with the Delrin ring on the platter. It is a superior performer at retrieving music from the groove when compared to my former Rega P3 and VPI TNT. My wife and I are pretty sensitive to pitch and changes in pitch (we listen to classical). It takes a deft hand to set the motor controller. However, the TTW produces the most musical of sound of the tables that I have owned. A fellow audio listener had the same impressions after listening to my TTW (he owns a Garrard 301).
Table isolation is only as good as the base on which the deck and arm pod rest. I use a 1 1/4" solid maple. |
Bill, If you have been in the hobby that long AND you are a dealer, it is no wonder that you are crotchety.
Spirit, Readers should keep in mind that the benefits of the Terminator 3Pro are accessible to most without having to use the Salvation turntable in the bargain. It's the air-bearing tonearm I would buy, if I would buy one, but I shy away from pumps and moisture traps, etc. It's bad enough that I have a car battery in my living room to run my CDP. |
I had one of the original (#3) TTWeights Black Onyx turntables and it was IMO one of the worst pieces of analog gear owned in my 50+ years of audio.
Noisy, erratic speed, and poor isolation between the table/armboard.
Caveat emptor.
IMO/YMMV |
Did consider Ttweights, but with no distributor in UK, was reluctant to go ahead w/out audition.
From what I've read comparing Salvation to Gem Ultra, the Salvation motor and execution is at least on a par, the integral air bearing linear tracking Terminator T3Pro arm makes the Trans Fi choice possible the biggest bargain in high end tts, at third price of Ttweights.
But I'm sure Larry's tt sounds great, the rim drive concept imho really does have major advantages over belt drive. |
We have been building rim drives for years now and have 120 plus customers
Cheers
Larry |
It's a strange irony that my push away from belt drive is the direct result of finally getting digital that I really liked to listen to. My current EMM CDSA SE cd was such a step beyond my previous Orbe tt, that analogue for the first time wasn't my first choice of listening. However I was still acutely aware of digital's shortcomings in the areas of tonal density and transparency of soundstage.
Imagine my delight in feeling I'm getting the best of both worlds now with current tt.
Peter, it sounds like you've achieved the same with your SME 30/V-12.
Totally agree with you, that this is all system synergy dependent: my system is really starting to sing with the introduction of 4kVa balanced power isolation and SpatialComputer Black Hole bass node correction in my room.
Great to be able to get off this particular tt upgrade path. |
No, I haven't heard the Continuum or Da Vinci or the Monaco, but that is exactly my point. I can't know that some other drive system is clearly better or worse in all cases as you suggest of your Direct Rim Drive over all belt and even DD types.
I have heard some horns and tubes and though I think they strayed a bit from reality for my taste, I don't feel I have nearly the experience to pass judgement on the entire class of product.
I think it has a lot to do with individual implementation and overall system context, not to mention the subjective notion of personal preference.
I don't get over to London, but thanks for the invitation. |
Peter, I understand the tenor of your post. No, I haven't heard all these tts so shouldn't make such sweeping statements. I have heard the SME 20 and 30, TW Acustic AC3, Brinkmann Bardo and La Grange, Clearaudio Innovation, Grand Prix Monaco, and of course my tricked out Michell Orbe.
As you know there is little to no chance in the UK to hear the Continuum, Walker, Da Vinci etc.
Ok, I'll refrain from labelling the Salvation above these, but I have to say the top end belt drives I have heard could not beat the combination of positives presented by the Salvation, and the two DDS I heard got closer, but still no cigar.
Have you heard them yourself?
Are you in/ever visiting London? Fancy a visit? |
Spirit, being from England, I wonder if you have ever heard an SME 30/12 with V-12 arm in a well set up system? Or any of the other top belt drives like the Continuum, the Walker, TW Acustics Black Night, Brinkman Balance, DiVinci. Do you feel that your idler is clearly superior to all of the top belt drives when it comes to speed accuracy, drive, propulsion, "time-smear" etc? |
Doing my best to keep this thread moving. The only downside I'm experiencing is an ABSOLUTE need for the setup, more precisely the Terminator air bearing arm, to have unimpeded air supply (v. easy to achieve by careful placement of the pump hose), and for the Salvation to be perfectly level and isolated to the max against vibration. This latter function I'm finding harder to succeed with: level is not so problematic, but a flexing in my wooden floor which was never an issue with my Orbe/SME V is a devil to contend with in this setup, causing all manner of tricky skipping (but only when dropping the cart, not during the middle of playback).
I'm v. close to installing an isolated wall shelf which will take all floor borne vibrations out of the equation.
Notwithstanding this, the tt/arm combination continues to make my jaw drop. It's doing an amazing job of removing the coloured sonic signature of time smear that no belt drive I auditioned could totally eradicate, in effect marrying the absolute advantages of analog warmth and digital precision into an experience well beyond the best turntables or cd players that I've ever heard.
And I still contend that with this setup, if it gets even 10% of what uber DDs like the SP10 Mk 3 or NVS do, it must be the bargain of the century. My hunch is that it is well beyond 10%, quite poss 90%+. Any established company would charge 5-10x it's asking price, just to cover the thousands of hours of R&D that would go into a new direct rim drive motor and linear tracking arm. |
I agree Lewm, it's just that this tt seems particularly adept at picking out spatial cues that really add to the presentation of tonality and transparency between different recordings. Other tts have done this as well, but often at the expense of really making poorly recorded lps sound v. uninviting. This isn't the case with the Salvation/Terminator. I'm still amazed that the removal of bass colouration and arm tracking issues has revealed so much hidden info with no reduction in the sweet spot that vinyl hits. In all the best blend of vinyl tonality with cd like precision I've yet heard.
My only experiment with a clamp/outer ring with this tt was way inferior than the undamped Resomat, so this is a keeper. |
Spirit, With all due respect, ANY decent turntable should readily reveal important differences in recording qualities among the wide variety of LPs you mention. If not, you've got a problem, but I would first blame it on tonearm/cartridge/phono stage/speakers.
As for Resomat, I've got no problem with the idea. I am one who has found consistently that I do not like the effect of heavy record weights or even peripheral ring clamps. (I have one of the latter, but I use it UNDER the lip of the LP so as to increase platter inertial mass without holding down the LP.) IME, record weights always tend to deaden the sound in ways that do not resemble real life. However, I agree that the trend is toward such devices and away from lifting the LP off the mat, a la Transcriptors and Resomat. I tend to like Boston Audio Mat1 or 2, or a good metal mat, both types used with no added rings or weights. This is on my DD or idler drive turntables. YMMV with belt-drives. |
One amazing aspect of the Salvation/Terminator combination, as a result of it's superior transparency and neutrality, is it's ability to resolve the differences in recording quality between lps from the Golden Age of audio (50's to early 70's) and those from this date to the present day.
All the natural tonal warmth, ambience and presence of albums like Yes 'Close To The Edge', Miles 'In A Silent Way' etc are presented in full glory, whereas the limitations of recent lps eg Muse 'Black Holes And Revelations', Rush 'Clockwork Angels' is revealed for the brickwalled abominations that they are.
But even with these, the Salvation/Terminator presents limitations in the most pleasant way possible, making this a 'warts and all' transducer but not at the expense of ever being unlistenable - neutrality and sweetness in equal measure. Unbeatable! |
The Reso mat works well with a lot fo different TT
Yes it based on similar principles to the Transcription principles but nought wrong with that if it improves sound
I know the matt has been tested against a lot of different matts and seems the results have been pretty much in favour of the Reso matt; for what it costs to buy I think it os a no brainer |
There seems to be a lot of skepticism re use of the Resomat, and with good foundation; it seems all tts utilise some form of clamping/peripheral ring/vacuum hold down to force the lp flush with the platter surface.
Vic's use of the Resomat flies against conventional wisdom, and all I can say is that in conjunction with the rest of the system it really seems to work. Indeed using a clamp without the mat only leads to clouding of sound quality. But experience in other systems may have the opposite result.
Try both and decide. |
Re the Resomat. When I first saw the photo, I realized that the idea is not new; Transcriptors used it a few decades ago. But the Transcriptors platter that I could remember (because I owned one), with the raised pucks to support the LP off the platter surface, was quite different in appearance and execution from the Resomat. However, someone on Vinyl Asylum posted a photo a few days ago of a "low end" Transcriptors tt from days of yore, which I had never seen before. Its platter (the whole platter) IS a Resomat, a dead-ringer. Nothing new under the sun.
Search photos posted by "Waxxy". |
Contact with Johnjc pushed me further in the direction of buying the Salvation/Terminator, a decision I consider the best I've made in audio. The only thing is that it's revealed a possible need to examine further need to upgrade cart/phono since these might be lagging behind the near state of the art performance of the tt/arm. |
I too am lucky enough to have a Salvation for the money I think it is amazing value
Like Marc I tried Raven AC and I also tried a Brinkmann LaGrange and used to have a VPI Reference Supersoutmaster and would say the Salvation has a lot more attack and detail than any of these Turntables
For me the sound is combines the best of DD, so great speed stabilty. it also has the torque of a really good idlier drive so very solid bass and dynamics that are very addicitive
Are there better TT out their... probarly but you have to spend crazy money to get anywhere close
Transfi has put a lot of time and thought into the design, and every little tweak that has been made has a purpose |
Spiritofmusic, yes, I looked through his online manual. Essentially, the motor leans against the rim so the idler pressure is maintained. The photos on YT show a rubber tire on the motor and the manual shows a delrin part.
What strikes me about this is that a similar technique could be used with an idler drive for controlling motor vibration noise. |
Atmasphere, Vic is particularly proud of his motor since vibrations introduced into the platter-stylus interface was always the bane of idlers of old.
To engage the rim wheel, one just turns the lever on the motor pod and a delrin wheel spinning at 300rpm contacts a delrin stripe bonded into the heavy outsized aluminium platter, bringing it up to correct speed in seconds. Turning the lever again disengages the rim wheel. In effect the pod tilts to engage/disengage contact.
I'll be darned if I can feel any vibrations in the pod as the rim is spinning. Vic has used clever engineering in the pod base and engagement lever to drain vibrations away from the platter, and I feel he has succeeded. There certainly appear to be no negative colourations or obscuring of details that would suggest vibrations reaching the stylus.
To illustrate this, I've just finished listening to a couple of Rush tracks that I thought I knew backwards: on "Stick it out", Geddy Lee's vocals are clearly double tracked and you can hear each layer clearly; on "Cut to the chase", vocal phrasings are subtly but unmistakenly heard at the back of the mix. On my old belt drive Orbe, none of this was evident. |
Lewm, I completely take your point. I've spent the last couple of years listening to a handful of excellently engineered tts with various drive technologies, and within each I've heard common audible traits. All the belt drives I listened to (my Orbe/SME/TW Acustic/Clearaudio) had tonality in spades and good soundstaging, but afflicted by time domain bass smear leading to an obscuring of detail, blunting of timing, and homogenising of sound. The DDs I listened to (Brinkmann Bardo/Inspire Monarch modded Technics SL1210/modded Technics SP10 Mk2) had dynamics and propulsion, but a whitening of sound and lack of true relaxation. The idlers I listened to (modded Garrard 301/401/Lenco L75) had the tonality of the belt drives, and the dynamics of DDs without the time smear colouration. However there was some extra bass warmth which veered away from true neutrality.
Vic's direct rim drive belongs more in the idler camp, but he has admirably managed to eradicate the one idler weakness to provide a tt with positives from all technologies.
One caveat is that I cannot divorce the effects of his unique arm since it comes as a package, and I do believe this really boosts the neutrality of the overall sound. |
Hello Atmasphere, There is a picture of how that works about halfway through the Salvation manual and is usually for sale on his Ebay website but not at this time. |
I am curious about something I don't see on the website.
The motor is a rim drive- similar to old Presto transcription machines used in radio stations in the 1950s. How is it set up? Can the motor pivot inside its housing? Or you you just push it until its close enough to engage the platter? |
Spirit, I am interested to hear the Salvation. I am already convinced that the Terminator is a great audio bargain, if you can put up with the fussiness of any air-bearing tonearm. However, I would take issue with your hypothesis that whatever it is that you did not like about the GP Monaco (or any other modern high-end DD turntable) is due to audible distortion induced by the servo mechanism. The one in the GPM is truly space age and is working much too fast for you to perceive its action on such an elemental level. (Of course, it is equally presumptuous of me to say that as for you to have posited it.) I expect the "sound" of the GPM is more due to the materials chosen for its construction than anything else. (I have yet to hear a carbon fiber audio tool that I could love.) From what I have read about the GPM, I expect I would not care for it, either, but I am a big proponent of DD. There are good and bad servo mechanisms, but I would bet the GPM has a good one. If you've heard the NVS and did not care for it, you can't blame the servo; I don't think it uses a servo feedback system. The Beat may not, either. On the other hand, the SP10 Mk2 unmodified has a very faint "gray-ish" coloration that I always thought may be due to its servo mechanism in action. It's completely absent from the Mk3 and can be ameliorated in the Mk2 by various strategies.
These accolades for the Salvation/Terminator make me curious to hear a shoot-out between it and the Amadeus, which has a huge and adoring fangroup, with nary a dissenting voice. Retail cost of the two is similar, I think. |
Thanks, Spirit, for your reply. I wish there was a way for me to hear the TransFi in Southern California! By the way, I had way too much money in the Shindo so I've down graded to an Amazon/Moerch combo... belt drive but I'm VERY happy. And it takes up less space! There are quite a number of great music makers out there. I just set up a Rega RP1 for a friend who's returned to vinyl after 25 years and while it's obviously entry level or whatever, I was amazed at what great music it was making for him. Vinyl just makes people happy. We are all very lucky! |
Peterayer, exactly my point. My move from belt drive is not the solution you ultimately have settled on. Undoubtedly I'd have been happy at some stage with an upgrade to the Orbe, had I not managed to hear well executed rim drive first. I'm pretty certain DD is not where I would have ended up, and I don't think it's any coincidence that after stellar DD auditions you kept the faith with belt drive.
If you do get a chance to hear the Salvation, or even well executed modded idlers like the Shindo 301, take it, and see how they stack up against your SME.
I'm also coming to the conclusion that the Terminator air bearing linear tracker is having a massively positive synergy with the Salvation, and honestly don't ever think I'll part from this rig.
Cartridge/phono stage? Now that's a whole other discussion! |
Thanks for the clarification, Spirit. It does indeed sound as though you have gone through a thorough and lengthy process and can speak from your experience. That always helps one to feel confident in his choices.
If you ever get the chance to hear some of those expensive DD tables, and I'd include a fully modded SP10 mk3 in that group, it would be interesting to read your impressions.
I also embarked on a major turntable/arm/cartridge upgrade recently. The research process took a couple of years. I too became fascinated by all of the DD discussions on these forums and was able to hear the Dobbins The Beat as well as two SP10 mk 2s and the Brinkman Bardo. I couldn't hear an NVS and Monoco. In the end I preferred a massive, well isolated belt drive table and 12" pivoted arm. In the end, for me, it is as much about the handling of energy from the cartridge through the arm to the base as it is about the drive system. A well implement belt drive does resolve the speed stability, rhythmic drive issue, IMO.
Musical satisfaction, as the destination, is what drives us all. The path we take often differs. The sharing of the journey is what these forums are all about. Congratulations again. |
Dhcod, I think you'd find that my Salvation/Terminator is much more in your Shindo 301 territory than the Monaco region. Vic the designer deliberately went for a non digital feedback/analogue set speed control for the motor. I am of the belief that continual speed hunting by DDs like the Monaco result in a kind of jitter appearing as a glassy colouration, very much like the worst of digital.
The Salvation is direct rim drive which Vic has derived from the idler principle of Garrards/Lencos. It is high torque, non feedback high rpm motor which sets speed and is v. difficult to vary via groove intermodulation resistance.
It differs mainly from the Shindo in using slate for plinth vibration control rather than built up plys.
Amazingly, totally eliminating the main thumbprint of belt drive ie time domain smear bass colouration clouding midrange has enhanced vinyl's superiority over digital.
IMHO, it is paradoxically closer to the best of digital, but has enabled vinyl to surge well ahead.
A matter of 'so close, and yet so far'. |
I really think that it just depends on what makes you happy. A perfectly setup fully updated LP12/Naim Aro is the best turntable I've ever heard but I could never keep it set up properly for long enough and my Linn guy passed away. The GP Monaco is the closest thing to digital sound in a turntable I've ever heard. Some may like it but I didn't at all. Now the turntable that makes me as happy as the LP12 is a Shindo 301. My tastes just run in that direction. Others like a more uncolored sound. But you have to got through the process you've gone through to find out. You gotta kiss a lot a frogs.... |
Hi Peter, in no way am I claiming that the Salvation/Terminator outperform everything out there. That would be churlish since I've only heard a limited number.
To be clear, I bought my Michell Orbe with SME V arm back in 1999. At the time I feel it outperformed belt drives in similar price range, esp. the Linn Sondek LP12 (too coloured) and the Roksan Xerxes (too sterile). Over the next 10 years I continually updated the Orbe with Michell Never Connected power supply, Gert Pedersen plinth/armboard upgrade, internal rewiring to SME V, TT Weights outer ring and various mats. Having been a massive analogue advocate over the years, generally hating the sound of digital even into the 2000's, imagine my suprise when the EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player outperformed my tt in many respects even with it's many updates.
This led me to investigating a fair number of pricey, fantastically engineered tts such as SME 20 and 30, TW Acustic AC3 and various Clearaudios. All performed somewhat better than the Orbe, but not enough for a clear knockout, and not enough to put digital back in it's place.
Reading about idler/direct drive in last couple of years interested me in that colourations in the timing domain of belt drives might be contributing to my dissatisfaction.
Not totally sure after hearing the Brinkmann Bardo DD (precise, but not overly rhythmic) and Technics SL1210 DD (a little dry) I came across the Trans Fi tt/arm, and within moments knew I had gotten to a sound well beyond my Orbe, and ahead of competing belt drives.
It's such a compelling sound eradicating the long term colouration that I took for granted as the 'romance' of vinyl, but if anything enhancing vinyl's addictive holistic nature, and actually bringing vinyl closer to the positives demonstrated by the EMM cd, with none of digital's downsides.
Now I'm not going to be able to hear the Monaco/Beat/NVS, mainly since they're not easily available in the UK and are 5-10x price of the Salvation/Terminator and yes I know these are DDs, but my deep instinct is that this tt is going to be in their ball park at least, at a level that virtually all can afford here. |
Spirit, Congratulations on your reaching audio nirvana. You certainly seem pleased with your choice. But are you stating categorically that you feel your current table and arm are better than all the belt drive table/pivoted arm combinations that you have heard, or that exist? That would be quite something. I ask because your enthusiasm is very clear and the list of tables you mention as potentially providing the last 5% as you say are all direct drive systems. I have not read of any of them being tried with a linear tracking arm though. |
OMG! Consistent adjusting of tt level, cart vtf and careful maintainance of air supply to arm is really opening up the sound. This with bedding in of cart , 50 hrs+ now, is taking analogue to hitherto unknown levels compared to when I stayed settled with belt drive/pivoted arm rig.
I can't stress how much this is a game changer at the reasonable cost end of the market; I have no doubt that money no object engineering thrown at top end tts such as Grand Prix Monaco, Dobbins Kodo The Beat and Wave Kinetics NVS may provide that extra 5% of performance, but this is such a complete holistic sound that I'm really settled as my last tt/arm upgrade (cart/phono still an open question). |
Sgunther, I certainly will. I'm veering away from MMs since a change to a phono stage allowing 47k and 100k needed, and my current one doesn't accommodate.
So, reinvestigating the Orpheus, may well upgrade stylus/cantilever on Zu 103, and will do an audition on Straingauge.
Back to Salvation/Terminator: it's neutrality is a bit startling and has highlighted need to get cart choice right. Just listening to Kate Bush 'Hounds Of Love' and the low end growl on my belt drive has been cleared up to reveal separate bass and synth. This extra detail is really aiding enjoyment, a fantastic consequence being much more intelligibility in the vocals. Piano rock solid, esp. decay of notes after hammer has struck. |
Tom
When we first talked i think i remember you saying you had a modest system. I would say anything but modest. Looks great and i am sure it sound great. |
Hey London boy let me know how your cartridge search goes, I would like to try to learn from your journey. My direct e-mail is sgun5@bellsouth.net
Thanks
Steve |
