My view would be that the TT is not a bad buy, assuming it works as claimed, but I dont think the tonearm is a very good design at all, mainly because the air bearing is a floating style, prone to wobble. If you compare it to the Eminent Technology, the ET has a captured air bearing which will be far more rigid. Furthermore the ET will have less resistance in the vertical movement as it is an air bearing vs the double knife edge used in the Terminator. Finally the claim of a light moving arm mass of 80g compares unfavourably to the ET2 which totals 25g plus decoupled counterweight of 5-15g, so the ET has far less inertia in the horizontal plane.
Trans Fi Salvation direct rim drive turntable
Hi A'goners, I've just bought this turntable, confident it'll be my last upgrade. The rest of my system is a Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage, EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player, Hovland HP200 pre/Radia power amps, Zu Definitions Mk 4 loudspeakers, so a pretty good way to listen to vinyl.
Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.
This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.
In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.
Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.
This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.
So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.
Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.
The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).
The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.
I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.
I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.
This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.
In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.
Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.
This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.
So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.
Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.
The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).
The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.
I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.
I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
Showing 8 responses by dover
For my favourite records I precision ground one side of each record flat, acccurate to 3 micron, and then cold welded these to lexan blanks, 4.5mm thick. I purchased 2 of every record to ensure I could listen to both sides. The net result is far better coupling and energy flow to the platter, the improvement to sound is absolutely amazing, no clamps required, no warps. |
Not so out of the box as you claim. The motor must not be operated without the platter load or it can be damaged. It would be prudent to read the manufacturers advice in the L07D owners manual before tinkering with this TT. The manufacturer also advises that the L07D has both mechanical and electrical brakes that are engaged or disengaged depending on the power and operating switches and the platter should not be rotated when the mechanical brakes are engaged or damage will occur. |
Lewm/Thekong Following your interest in the Verdier, I pulled one out of the cupboard and set it up over the weekend for a quick listen. It is about 2 yrs old - so current version. It has the black lacquered base and arm boards. Lewm, before you ask "have you really" - here is a photo for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogRZSjnyhas The Verdier bearing is a conventional sleeved bearing in the horizontal plane and magnetic in the vertical plane. The ball and thrust pad is supplied as standard with the deck but the use of the ball & thrust pad is optional. If you install the ball & thrust pad the height of the bearing shaft is adjustable from under the TT so that the ball is only just touching and most of the weight is still borne by the magnetic bearing. I mounted an Audiomods arm and Goldring moving coil (was mounted on Technics DD )on the Verdier for an interim listen. The Verdier was a considerable level of performance above the SME20/SMEV/Lyra combination we had side by side for comparison. The Verdier had more punch, lower noise floor, better dynamics, better timing and was more transparent. It is quite impressive that the magnets support such a heavy platter. There is residual vertical movement in the platter if you press down but it is quite stiff. At some stage I will transfer the SME V/Lyra onto the Verdier for a direct comparison and try the ball & thrust pad again. On an earlier Verdier I preferred the ball in situ - more high frequency extension more grounded and better timing. The earlier Verdier that I had listened to had rigid feet whereas the current has sprung feet. My only criticism of the Verdier is the plinth and armloads are pretty mickey mouse - they appear to be painted mdf and very lightweight. The Verdier motor has settings for rubber belt and thread drive. The rubber belt supplied is about 3/16" thick, round profile, and I was disturbed by it's propensity to vibrate, no matter how I tensioned the belt. However it still sounded ok, much better than the SME20 but not up to the Final Audio VTT-1 that I normally run. |
Harold - The Verdier I tested is the same as Ct0517 except Ct0517 has the granito base. The motor is quite weedy - deliberately so, but many owners mod the motors and/or use aftermarket motors. It appears to be more reliant on inertia. I would rank the deck above the SP10mk3/L07D but below the Final Audio VTT1. The Verdier has a more cohesive sound when set up correctly, instruments/notes are rich and ripe, but the DD's have more accurate speed at the cost of some disaggregation of the music to my ears. The Final Audio VTT1 has the best of both. |
Richardkrebs, Thank you for your suggestion. I have been well acquainted with the Verdier for over 20 years from the original Granito to the current model. I am well aware of the many modifications that can substantially improve the performance. The Verdier was purchased not because it was required, but simply as a second deck to play with. The Final Audio VTT1 is far far superior. If the Verdier was my primary TT then all that I would retain would be the platter, bearing and magnets. The Callas kit, a new plinth with proper energy path to ground, rigid feet & rigid arm mounts would be implemented along with a better motor and motor controller. As an aside, I was cleaning the stereo whilst listening to LA4 Just Friends last night. I decided to clean the Final Audio TT including the top of the motor and silk thread drive. Surprisingly there was no drop off in speed as I cleaned the thread & motor pulley whilst playing an LP. I doubt there are many belt/thread or DD TT's that could accomplish this. |
The issue with Magnetically levitated feet on a TT in my view is that if the motor is separate from the TT then it compromises the rigidity between motor pulley and platter/bearing. I have no doubt that IF one has a TT that is being subjected to vibration and feedback then it may appear to be an improvement in noise floor, however this is at the cost of speed stability. Any vibration from the floor will affect the motor and platter/bearing differently resulting in instability. An example is my back up TT - Platine Verdier. When I removed the suspension ( which is quite lossy in standard form ), the level of belt creep and oscillation was dramatically reduced - visually around 95% plus and speed stability improved. In an ideal world the motor and platter/bearing should be rigidly coupled. You might be better to put the TT with motor drive on a platform, and then put the whole platform on the maglev feet if you have feedback issues. On the subject of the magnetically levitated platter, I use the ball insert on the Verdier ( I can measure the platter lifting down to less than a micron through the use of a dial gauge calliper when the bearing spindle is adjusted such that most of the platter weight is still carried by levitation ). Grounding the bearing tightens up the bass and provides better timing and coherency, and cleaner transients with less smear. |