They are one of my must have components. They have made the most improved impact on system than any other tweak, accessory or cable.
Townshend Audio Podiums: The Full Review
I’ve been fascinated with the importance of vibration control for more than three decades now. A lot of my experience is already covered in Millercarbon's Mega Vibration Control Journey https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/millercarbon-s-mega-vibration-control-journey The Journey ended with springs. Then I got Pods, and wrote Vibration Control and the Townshend Audio Seismic Pods https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vibration-control-and-the-townshend-audio-seismic-pods Now as we continue our journey forward it is time to review the Townshend Audio Podiums.
Podiums are based on the same basic engineering used in Pods. A spring is encased in a rubber sleeve that functions as a sort of bellows, trapping the air inside. At the top the spring is attached to a threaded metal plate with a single very precise small hole in it. The threads are for height adjustment and the hole is to allow air to pass through. A very small, precision-controlled amount of air. This tiny little hole allows the air to function as a damper.
A fundamental challenge with springs is they bounce. We want them to bounce. But we do not want them to keep bouncing! When that happens we say it resonates, and resonance adds color. It is a form of distortion, and we don’t want it. Springs all by themselves are already very good at isolation. Please read the above threads to see just how good they are. But even as good as they are springs do have this problem of resonance.
The problem with damping is figuring out how to achieve it, and how much to use? The air valve method Max Townshend invented uses only a couple percent damping ratio and does this with air alone and no moving parts. Genius!
The four damped spring towers are attached to a very dense, massive and inert plinth. My traditional knuckle rap test yielded a very satisfactory ’thunk’. Stiff and highly damped, it is also covered in an extremely durable and beautiful finish. Sliding speakers on and off left zero marks on them, and they really are handsome to look at.
The damped spring towers at each corner are threaded for two different leveling adjustments. The first is to level the unloaded Podium on the floor. This first step eliminates any problems or situations where the floor is not perfectly level. This adjustment (if necessary) is made with a special thin wrench that comes supplied with the Podiums.
The speakers are then placed on the Podiums and fine tuned for precision placement. At this point, loaded with 150lbs worth of Moabs, making fine positioning adjustments on my thick carpet proved a bit of a challenge. The solution I came up with was BDR Round Things under the footers. Furniture gliders would probably also work. If it is even a problem. My carpet and pad are very thick. They do look like they will work beautifully on hardwood flooring.
Once perfectly positioned the speakers are raised by turning the knobs at each corner. There is a process to doing this. First all four are turned equally, until all four corners are floating free and clear. It is essential to allow freedom of motion in all planes. Once this is achieved then the speakers can be adjusted perfectly level by turning the knobs in pairs- the two on the left or right, or the two on the front or back. Adjusting in pairs this way avoids diagonal rocking.
Describing this process in print is hard but doing it in practice is easy. In fact this was the coolest part of setting them up! With the Podiums I was able to place my level right on the Podium. Even fully loaded with about 150lbs of Moabs and BDR the knobs turn silky smooth, and precision leveling is super easy.
Okay, okay, so how do they sound? In a word: wonderful! This can’t come as much of a surprise. They are after all basically Pods attached to a plinth, and the Pods work wonderfully under everything I have tried. Still, the Podiums are pretty impressive.
The first thing I noticed was improvement in the direction of what I would call a more natural sound. Natural sounds are almost never described as having glare or strain. Natural sounds can be quite loud. But there is a difference in nature between a loud natural sound and the same sound through a system. They may measure the same volume but we have no trouble hearing the difference.
At this point I have to agree with Max and say that the difference is ringing. Natural sounds start and stop very quickly. Sounds reproduced by our systems cause the system itself to vibrate, then the room, and the room feeds back into the system until the whole thing is ringing like a bell. This all happens very fast and can be seen demonstrated on a seismograph placed on a speaker. https://youtu.be/BOPXJDdwtk4?t=6
In any case, whatever the explanation it is clear there is a lot less glare and strain with speakers on the Townshend Podiums. This results for me in a lot less listener fatigue. Another thing I find is that while I don’t necessarily need to turn the volume up, when I do it is way more enjoyable! The combination of speakers like Moabs capable of playing very loud and strain-free with Podiums is intoxicating!
The next thing I’m hearing is a massive improvement in what I would call truth of timbre, or tone, or whatever you want to call it that makes each individual instrument sound more like itself and not any other. Not the big differences that distinguish a steel from a string guitar, but the little details that distinguish one wood-bodied gut-stringed guitar from another. Not hyped-up count the spittle hitting the mic details either but the sort of tonal shadings that distinguish the real vocal talent from the second-tier. Even now after more than a month on Podiums still I put on records that have me going Wow that wood block really is a wood block!
This is why I spent so much time explaining Max’s damping mechanism. Before Podiums my Moabs were on springs. The load was the same, and the springs were properly sized for the load. However, the springs on my DIY platforms were not damped. Consequently, they had their characteristic resonance. This resonance colors everything played on them. Like viewing the world through rose-colored glasses- you may like what you see but that ain’t the world! Now on Podiums the world as presented by the Moabs is full blown Ultra Panavision 70! https://vashivisuals.com/the-hateful-eight-ultra-panavision-70/
Those who follow me know I am not just about sound quality, I am also about value. Because I am so passionate about sound quality, but have only limited resources, I have to be. No way I have enough money to go chasing the latest and greatest. One look at my system anyone can see how hard I will work if it will get the job done for less. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
For sure springs will do a very fine job for very low cost. Just about any spring, properly tuned and used, will outperform an awful lot of stuff that costs a whole lot more. For sure anyone in the market for good vibration control solutions- and that should be everyone! - should consider springs. But Townshend Podiums are so much better than ordinary springs that I have to say that even at their price they are not just as good value, but even better. They are that good.
Podiums are based on the same basic engineering used in Pods. A spring is encased in a rubber sleeve that functions as a sort of bellows, trapping the air inside. At the top the spring is attached to a threaded metal plate with a single very precise small hole in it. The threads are for height adjustment and the hole is to allow air to pass through. A very small, precision-controlled amount of air. This tiny little hole allows the air to function as a damper.
A fundamental challenge with springs is they bounce. We want them to bounce. But we do not want them to keep bouncing! When that happens we say it resonates, and resonance adds color. It is a form of distortion, and we don’t want it. Springs all by themselves are already very good at isolation. Please read the above threads to see just how good they are. But even as good as they are springs do have this problem of resonance.
The problem with damping is figuring out how to achieve it, and how much to use? The air valve method Max Townshend invented uses only a couple percent damping ratio and does this with air alone and no moving parts. Genius!
The four damped spring towers are attached to a very dense, massive and inert plinth. My traditional knuckle rap test yielded a very satisfactory ’thunk’. Stiff and highly damped, it is also covered in an extremely durable and beautiful finish. Sliding speakers on and off left zero marks on them, and they really are handsome to look at.
The damped spring towers at each corner are threaded for two different leveling adjustments. The first is to level the unloaded Podium on the floor. This first step eliminates any problems or situations where the floor is not perfectly level. This adjustment (if necessary) is made with a special thin wrench that comes supplied with the Podiums.
The speakers are then placed on the Podiums and fine tuned for precision placement. At this point, loaded with 150lbs worth of Moabs, making fine positioning adjustments on my thick carpet proved a bit of a challenge. The solution I came up with was BDR Round Things under the footers. Furniture gliders would probably also work. If it is even a problem. My carpet and pad are very thick. They do look like they will work beautifully on hardwood flooring.
Once perfectly positioned the speakers are raised by turning the knobs at each corner. There is a process to doing this. First all four are turned equally, until all four corners are floating free and clear. It is essential to allow freedom of motion in all planes. Once this is achieved then the speakers can be adjusted perfectly level by turning the knobs in pairs- the two on the left or right, or the two on the front or back. Adjusting in pairs this way avoids diagonal rocking.
Describing this process in print is hard but doing it in practice is easy. In fact this was the coolest part of setting them up! With the Podiums I was able to place my level right on the Podium. Even fully loaded with about 150lbs of Moabs and BDR the knobs turn silky smooth, and precision leveling is super easy.
Okay, okay, so how do they sound? In a word: wonderful! This can’t come as much of a surprise. They are after all basically Pods attached to a plinth, and the Pods work wonderfully under everything I have tried. Still, the Podiums are pretty impressive.
The first thing I noticed was improvement in the direction of what I would call a more natural sound. Natural sounds are almost never described as having glare or strain. Natural sounds can be quite loud. But there is a difference in nature between a loud natural sound and the same sound through a system. They may measure the same volume but we have no trouble hearing the difference.
At this point I have to agree with Max and say that the difference is ringing. Natural sounds start and stop very quickly. Sounds reproduced by our systems cause the system itself to vibrate, then the room, and the room feeds back into the system until the whole thing is ringing like a bell. This all happens very fast and can be seen demonstrated on a seismograph placed on a speaker. https://youtu.be/BOPXJDdwtk4?t=6
In any case, whatever the explanation it is clear there is a lot less glare and strain with speakers on the Townshend Podiums. This results for me in a lot less listener fatigue. Another thing I find is that while I don’t necessarily need to turn the volume up, when I do it is way more enjoyable! The combination of speakers like Moabs capable of playing very loud and strain-free with Podiums is intoxicating!
The next thing I’m hearing is a massive improvement in what I would call truth of timbre, or tone, or whatever you want to call it that makes each individual instrument sound more like itself and not any other. Not the big differences that distinguish a steel from a string guitar, but the little details that distinguish one wood-bodied gut-stringed guitar from another. Not hyped-up count the spittle hitting the mic details either but the sort of tonal shadings that distinguish the real vocal talent from the second-tier. Even now after more than a month on Podiums still I put on records that have me going Wow that wood block really is a wood block!
This is why I spent so much time explaining Max’s damping mechanism. Before Podiums my Moabs were on springs. The load was the same, and the springs were properly sized for the load. However, the springs on my DIY platforms were not damped. Consequently, they had their characteristic resonance. This resonance colors everything played on them. Like viewing the world through rose-colored glasses- you may like what you see but that ain’t the world! Now on Podiums the world as presented by the Moabs is full blown Ultra Panavision 70! https://vashivisuals.com/the-hateful-eight-ultra-panavision-70/
Those who follow me know I am not just about sound quality, I am also about value. Because I am so passionate about sound quality, but have only limited resources, I have to be. No way I have enough money to go chasing the latest and greatest. One look at my system anyone can see how hard I will work if it will get the job done for less. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
For sure springs will do a very fine job for very low cost. Just about any spring, properly tuned and used, will outperform an awful lot of stuff that costs a whole lot more. For sure anyone in the market for good vibration control solutions- and that should be everyone! - should consider springs. But Townshend Podiums are so much better than ordinary springs that I have to say that even at their price they are not just as good value, but even better. They are that good.
204 responses Add your response
Not surprised but happy to hear. Several here have tried them on my word and all have been very happy. Also I mentioned speakers because that is the main market but pretty sure there is at least one who used a Podium under his turntable to solve a very difficult turntable vibration problem that had been bugging him for a long time. I forget if it was a Podium or Max sent him a Podium plinth for mass and he used that as a shelf with Pods. One or the other. Point being the stuff totally works. How long have you had yours, and what are you using them with? |
I too have come to appreciate the benefit of springs under my speakers and electronic gear. Last year, I was able to find appropriately sized springs to support my heavy speakers, subs, monoblock amplifiers, and server. After reading about the Townshend pods, I damped the springs by covering them with a thin wall heat shrink and using a nail set to punch a couple of small holes in the side of the heat shrink to release the internal air. This damping along with an appropriate precompression and spring rate, seems to have resulted in a natural frequency that is below the audible range. The Townshend pods and podiums are probably better but for not a lot of money the springs perform better than anything I have used previously. Like MC says....a more natural sound. |
mitch2: I too have come to appreciate the benefit of springs under my speakers and electronic gear. Last year, I was able to find appropriately sized springs to support my heavy speakers, subs, monoblock amplifiers, and server. After reading about the Townshend pods, I damped the springs by covering them with a thin wall heat shrink and using a nail set to punch a couple of small holes in the side of the heat shrink to release the internal air. This damping along with an appropriate precompression and spring rate, seems to have resulted in a natural frequency that is below the audible range. The Townshend pods and podiums are probably better but for not a lot of money the springs perform better than anything I have used previously. Like MC says....a more natural sound. That’s the best I can think to describe it. The usual "improved dynamics and detail" just feels so inadequate. |
I ordered a pair of Podiums for my Vandy Treo's. I never got to install them as my floor space is limited and those outrigger feet took up too much room.-Probably all for the better as Mr. V. believes his speakers benefit from a solid marble plinth. I ended up calling Townshend and they said I could use them for any equipment. Since I owned an Ayre KX-R, I tried it ( the weight fit the podium range). I have to say it really tightened things up, especially the bass. B |
That is one of the more consistent improvements I have heard across different uses. No matter what else happens the bass gets tighter, with greater slam or impact and more articulate. It is hard to describe because sometimes it feels like more bass because of the extra slam or impact, but other times it feels like less, because tighter less round or tubby. However you describe it though there is no doubt it is better! That is a very high end pre-amp to be getting a lot of improvement from Podiums shows how good they really are. |
It also does it's magic with an Atmasphere MP-1. My office system is suspended from wall mounted Sumo Shelves. They look nice but aren't the most inert, so I bought some Townshend Platforms for my Belles Aria monoblocks and my Atma UV-1 preamp. It seems strange, but I definitely noticed greater clarity and separation when I installed them. I need to get a couple more for my DAC and streamer. Bob |
Yeah Bob it is strange. I started with Pods under my turntable. The most obvious place you would expect would make the biggest improvement. But I swear they improved my tube amp at least as much! It is still a little strange to feel the amp move when turning a knob but the sound is so much better I will just have to get used to it. Haven't tried them under my CDP, I listen only to records now, but John is adamant they work great on digital. He was right about my phono stage. And speakers. So probably right about the DAC as well. Please let us know how it goes. |
Putting springs under speakers and electronics is one of the silliest things I have ever heard of. Speakers have to be fixed in space to work properly. Any movement or vibration is distortion. They should be spiked to a solid floor. Electronics could care less. Vibration does not effect them at all. Transformers can hum and that can certainly be an annoyance if transferred to the right cabinet. Then isolating the unit makes sense. I would rather buy an amplifier that does not have a noisy transformer. This spring business probably originates from turntables which have been sprung since the AR XA. Turntables being vibration measuring machines must be isolated from the environment. I'll bet that most of the people here with springs under their speakers have an inadequately isolated turntable! Spend your money on a turntable isolation platform (MinusK) or get a decent turntable. If you really want to scare yourself get a seismometer app for your phone, put the phone on your platter and start banging around. If you see even the tinniest squiggle on the phone you have a problem. This is more sensitive than listening and it will also tell you where the weakness is more accurately. |
Putting springs under speakers and electronics is one of the silliest things I have ever heard of.I did it, and by EXPERIENCE i know what i speak about with springs do you? I even devised my OWN method to use them optimally did you? putting springs is not silly if done right when i did adding 2 sets dyssimetrically compressed under each speakers by a heavy load... What do you speak about in this post save for a bunch of wrong common place affirmations? Gear does not vibrate? 😁 I will not adress that it is too much evidently false.... The spikes will tune the sound less efficiently than my fine tune 8 springs boxes under a damping load, one set under speakers the other set under the load... It is a fine tune dyssimetric compression better than spikes because you dont have control on spike but you have control over the exact tuning compression used with the 2 sets of 4 springs boxes... Is it difficult to understand? Spikes tune in one way they sont completely isolate.....Springs boxes could be adjusted precisely to your speakers not the spike tuning... |
@mijostyn If you really want to scare yourself get a seismometer app for your phone, put the phone on your platter and start banging around. If you see even the tinniest squiggle on the phone you have a problem.Another way to consider it would be to get the app and then put your phone on your speaker. Using the same music and sound level, take readings with the speaker spiked to the floor and readings with the speaker on springs or a spring platform. It might be interesting. The springs are an isolation tool and if properly sized, preloaded, and damped this idea of speakers bouncing around and distorting is probably not what is happening. Reflections from the floor could be worse but I haven't measured it so I don't know. All I can say is that the springs were an improvement in the sound I hear, and certainly not a detriment. |
Relax mahgister, he never knows anything about anything, this is no different. One of many it is best to simply ignore. mofojo- Understand. Springs are the best, but you don't need the best springs (Townshend) to realize this. Even plain springs are still very good compared to just about anything else. If you know your load, what your speaker or whatever weighs, take that weight and divide by 3 or 4, the number of springs you want to use. That gives you your load per spring. Then search eBay for the right spring. It won't be easy. You want a spring that your load will compress it about half way. 50-70% is about right. When compressed it should be wider than tall. For stability. But not too wide, it must move freely in all directions not just up and down. The hardest most time consuming part of the whole thing is searching around for the right spring! These are the ones we used under my Moabs. https://www.ebay.com/itm/160-Wire-Compression-Spring-Lot-Of-4/223934604299?hash=item34238ae40b:g:og8... These will work with speakers (amp, whatever) from about 125lbs to 175lbs, maybe even up to 200 lbs. They were quite good with the Moabs. I searched around and bought smaller but similar ones for my subs. Searching around for the right load spec was killing me. Sometimes I got ones that looked okay per spec but when I got them no way! So I switched to Nobsound. Amazon has different versions, they look different but are almost exactly the same. Seven small springs per footer, use however many the component requires. Basically try different numbers of springs until it sounds right. The beauty of this is you wind up with leftover springs! Cut a piece of MDF or acrylic, drill some 1/4" divots, and you've made another footer! That's what I did. Most gear needs only about half the springs they give you, so if you can DIY you can probably have 8 footers for the price of one! The disadvantage with springs like these is they resonate. There's a real art to getting the most from them. Notice mahgister talks about fine tuning adjustments. Eliminating all these resonances and the need for tuning is Townshend's great achievement. I don't want to go too deep into springs on the Townshend thread. PM me for details if you want to try this. |
Springs must be adjusted to near 1% and even less, of the total compressive load or force applied.... It is very easy by ears experiment....225 grams and less are audible if the springs are already near their optimal compression...The timbre perception coming from the speakers give the wish result.... But it takes me few experiments on few days.... The double set of springs under each speaker is 8 boxes by speaker, 4 box under the speaker , 4 boxes on top of it under the heavy damping load, each speaker must be under the heavy load necessary to compress optimally the 7 springs in each box, and it is a method better than using only less springs by each box relatively only to the speaker weight without any damping load... The reason is the dyssimetric compressive force decrease the speaker internal power of desctructive resonance... Then the springs not only isolate but mostly are a fine tuning tool because of our fine control over the damping load... No comparison with spikes where there is NO CONTROL over the unavoidable tuning related to the structure of the spike itself that will increase some frequency and decrease others....The 2 sets of difdferently compressed springs work like a feed back thermostat for vibrations adjusted to your particular box speakers by refining the compression load.... «It is simple to understand with a number of neurons exceeeding the number of springs in the mattress that we can sleep well after work» -Groucho Marx |
mitch2- Another way to consider it would be to get the app and then put your phone on your speaker. Using the same music and sound level, take readings with the speaker spiked to the floor and readings with the speaker on springs or a spring platform. It might be interesting. The springs are an isolation tool and if properly sized, preloaded, and damped this idea of speakers bouncing around and distorting is probably not what is happening. Reflections from the floor could be worse but I haven't measured it so I don't know. "Haven't done it so don't know." Thank you so much for saying that. Have asked many times, when you just don't know, please say you just don't know. Instead of pontificate as if you do. Your candor is a breath of fresh air. Your app idea has been done and demonstrates this beautifully. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOPXJDdwtk4 This one short clip clearly demonstrates exactly what is happening, exactly how Podiums make such a huge improvement. Notice the one dealer said they were having a problem with booming bass due to the room they were in. Podiums eliminated it. This is another thing I have been saying, that a lot of times problems aren't really quite what we think they are. If that dealer asked around here you can bet your bottom dollar he would have got tube traps, GIK and EQ all day long. Nobody but me would have said try Podiums. Watch the video. Look who'd be right. The blur or ringing Max shows in this video is a great visual representation of what happens with music. Instead of blur, everything is in focus. Just a huge improvement. |
So say the driver mass of (say) 1kg moves 1mm at 200 times per second (reports of improved soundstage means it must be higher frequencies that are benefitting). The cabinet moves the opposite way. If the cabinet is 100 times the mass of the driver, it will move 100th of the distance. (Newton). That’s 1/100th of a mm. But, assuming that the driver is mounted horizontally, that’s 1/100th of a mm parallel to the floor. But the springs are perpendicular to the floor. So we need to know how much of that 0.01 of a mm is left when the cabinet rotates around its centre of gravity. Probably very little indeed. Beyond my maths skills. Say 100th? If so then vertical component is, say, 0.0001mm. 200 times a second. That’s one hell of a spring and damper you’ve got there! I doubt very much that an engineer would use a steel spring and an air-damped bellows to cope with 0.0001mm of movement 200 times a second between a 100kg cabinet and a floor. A blob of blu tack might be perfect though if you have a solid floor. After all, it’s what Synergistic Research recommended for those HFT devices... if you have a carpet, well, I guess the carpet would be perfect. |
That’s one hell of a spring and damper you’ve got there! I doubt very much that an engineer would use a steel spring and an air-damped bellowsIt is the reason why my double set of boxes springs dyssimmetrically compressed under the 2 different compressive load ( the damping load on top of the speaker over a set of springs or damping load+speaker weight on top of another sets of springs ) work better for me.... The 2 sets dyssimetrically compressed work like one feed back tuning device on the internal resonance of the speaker box.....They dont only isolate they work as a tool for decreasing rsonance powerful impact from the speaker.... Cost: peanuts... |
If the cabinet is 100 times the mass of the driver, it will move 100th of the distance. (Newton). That’s 1/100th of a mm. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two different issues. One is a suspension issue. One is a harmonics issue. mahgister is addressing the harmonics of the enclosure vs drivers and tuning to his liking. It’s a great way to preload a device and cause it to act more "Densely" than it actually is. It is akin to but not limited to the drivers also (round VC drivers). The resonance made by, BUT not controlled in some way is the "BEAST". MOST folks cannot tell the difference in 20% distortion in the bass region. 20% is a WHOLE lot when you clean it up to 2-5%. It leaves NO question as to what you WERE listening to and what you ARE listening to. The swarm address this in every way. Distortion is in the 5-10% just because harmonics were reduced in every plane, the exception being the actual box. Smaller is better in that case. The suspension issue is easier than you think there is also a driver with a return spring 2 sometimes 3 fold. The spider (single or dual) and the surround helps. The actual dampening of a good amp comes into play too. Proper cabling size. There is also an active servo control (pulls the cone back from overshoot). ALL these devices bring the cone back the other direction.. It’s not just hitting the bump stop and pushing the speaker back. There is a return mechanisms and MASS, that is doing just the opposite of the cone at 200 time per second.. All returning waves of unwanted vibration is best addressed with isolation, separate the two.. you have less distortion because of LESS vibration (harmonics). Jezzz got my fingers hurtin' Springs with shocks work.. PERIOD. Regards.. |
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Springs with shocks work.. PERIOD.You are right.... And i will only add also that my cheap double set of springs dyssimetrically compressed under different loads work like fine tuning correcting resonance feed back tool and not only isolate well....PERIOD. 😁😊😎 Which is better? i dont know and dont give a damn ,but with the 2 cost compared i will stick with mine....Peanuts compared to more than one thousand bucks.... |
@mitch2, you might notice I said spiked to a solid floor. Many of us do not have solid floors. Now the floor has a resonance frequency and the walls have a different resonance frequency and the whole house starts singing. Under this circumstance a suspension might lower the excitation of resonance in the house but it will not get rid of them. Sound better? Maybe. But it will not be as accurate as a speaker spiked to a solid floor. You can see these resonance points with impulse testing. The other variable is the listener. What sounds better to them may be a less accurate version of the original signal. It also depends on the volume one is listening at. This is another advantage of impulse testing and room control. You learn what flat is and what tonal changes occur with volume. I hardly ever listen to a flat curve. At the volumes I listen at flat is way too bright. 20 kHz is down at least 6 dB. I also like my bass boosted below 80 Hz. You feel it better. House resonance usually happens somewhere in the bass. None the less ideally a speaker should be fixed firmly in space and not vibrate at all. Vibration of the speaker as a whole is distortion. This is most important with subwoofers. With the seismometer on the sub it should not register anything. Very tough to get a sub that quiet. I certainly have not been able to yet and I am working on version #3. |
The magnet isn’t meant to move of course. The coil does - probably less than a 10th the mass of the magnet. So the vibration movement of the cabinet in the vertical plane is probably a 10th of that estimate. So that’s 0.00001 mm every 200th of a second. Just the thing for a steel spring and bellows to sort out! must be why not a single speaker manufacture has this as part of their design. |
must be why not a single speaker manufacture has this as part of their designIt take not much very great processing thinking time to answer that manufacturers cannot solve all vibrations and resonance problems , electrical noise, and acoustical potentials or limitations related to their specific design for all customers tastes and for all possible environment at way greater cost than the limited working design creation itself... They create a relatively good functional design not the bullet proof better possible one in the world for anyone at any location with any connected gear.... For speakers, they let customer chose the way to isolate/couple/decouple/damp/ etc with their own wise or unwise choices....It will be counterproductive to attach a costly device to the speakers.... All devices has their own limitations and specific capabilities....It is a trade-off that make sense for specific customers ears, in specific location with specific linked gear.... Did it? It is very easy to create the best speakers in the world, it is only necessary attach to it a neural network for feed back correction in micro second times.... what will be the cost? I will go on with my springs boxes dyssimetrically compressed under load....Peanuts cost.... |
If you know your load, what your speaker or whatever weighs, take that weight and divide by 3 or 4, the number of springs you want to use. That gives you your load per spring.I just went through this last fall and one thing I realized is that the weight under speakers (and electronics) is not evenly distributed. The weight of the drivers tend to push the weight distribution toward the front. Even under my heavy Sound Anchor stands this was true. Therefore, unless you want your speakers to tilt downward in the front, you should take the variable weight distribution into account when you size your springs and you will probably need stiffer (or more) springs under the front than under the rear. Instead of ebay, I had good luck sourcing springs from Century Spring Corp. that has a nice interactive guide where you can enter the different spring parameters you are looking for. |
I just went through this last fall and one thing I realized is that the weight under speakers (and electronics) is not evenly distributed. The weight of the drivers tend to push the weight distribution toward the front. Even under my heavy Sound Anchor stands this was true. Therefore, unless you want your speakers to tilt downward in the front, you should take the variable weight distribution into account when you size your springs and you will probably need stifferI dont have this problem with my 2 sets of dyssimetrically compressed springs boxes under different load at the 2 end of the speakers box.... They work by feed back....And the dyssimetric tuned compressive force damp the dynamic.... |
Mitch- Adjusting for level it is a whole lot easier to just turn a screw. That is what Townshend does with their Pods and Podiums. Rather than messing around trying to find springs that balance either get Townshend or if you are DIY then just drill your Nobsound or whatever and tap for 1/4-20 threads. |
bluemoodriver- again, one more teachable moment: The magnet isn’t meant to move of course. The coil does - probably less than a 10th the mass of the magnet. So the vibration movement of the cabinet in the vertical plane is probably a 10th of that estimate. So that’s 0.00001 mm every 200th of a second. Eliminate all the guesses, assumptions, and hypotheticals and we are left with: isn’t meant to In other words, what you just said- literally- is probably, probably, probably, must be. How exactly do you get from "probably" to "must be"? When you suck the air out and nothing is left, that is what we call "vacuous." |
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I must say that myself i dont believe anymore because of my experience and experiments that audiophile experience cost necessarily big money...It is a market entertained myth.... It cost peanuts only if we think with elementary acoustic and physics and if we use our ears... For sure there is plenty of audio system better than mine here in the virtual page but not so much if they are not well embedded, and most are not.... For me the most important asset is a dedicated audio room.... I would have never been able to experiment in my wife living room .... And i would believe like most that audiophile experience is very costly in a living room....And it is generally the case for esthetical imperatives and conflicting use of the space contents .... It is all i know.... |
It works for me mahgister. As long as you get what YOU want. I have 28.00 usd x 6. About half the springs are removed, I used ear plugs inside the 4 springs I left in Audiocrast via Amazon. They have deadening material top and bottom I'm actually getting LESS picky, I thinks I'm getting lazy... No, I know I am. I actually got the wife wanting to fix up and finish "The Room". Second wind coming up.. She like all the diffusers and gadgets. I think she can talk me into springs and shocks. No diffusers though. No Dear sigh right here. ;-) Regards |
It works for me mahgister. As long as you get what YOU want.You are spot on.... I listen now to a files i had for seven years.... Balinese gamelan and gongs with flute.... The timbre details of each sound is heard for the first time in their own sound space with depth imaging in my 2 positions of listening...... It was what i look for.... No need to pay more .... Except more " peanuts" to refine it if my imagination could look for a new inspirational device easy to devise....I am not crafty like you are or like others....😁😊😎 My best to you.... |
bluemoodriver- MC - so what do you think the springs and bellows are doing? Please explain. This is what I mean by the futility of trying to converse with someone with very low reading comprehension. This has been explained already, very clearly, in the OP: Natural sounds start and stop very quickly. Sounds reproduced by our systems cause the system itself to vibrate, then the room, and the room feeds back into the system until the whole thing is ringing like a bell. This all happens very fast and can be seen demonstrated on a seismograph placed on a speaker. https://youtu.be/BOPXJDdwtk4?t=6That is from the OP. Don’t take my word for it, scroll up, see for yourself. Relax, read the text, watch the video. Watch the whole video. It explains a lot, which is why I linked to it. Then... one technique proven to help learn and understand is to try and restate a position in your own words as effectively and powerfully as possible. Even if you want to pick it apart, it goes a whole lot better when you know what it is you are trying to pick apart. Right now you don’t even know. Or you wouldn’t be asking. So my suggestion is after studying this instead of coming back with guesses and rhetorical questions try and state in your own words and as best you can your own understanding of what is going on. |
Speaking of reading comprehension, or lack of thereof... MC - so what do you think the springs and bellows are doing? Please explain. This is what I mean by the futility of trying to converse with someone with very low reading comprehension. This has been explained already, very clearly, in the OP: Natural sounds start and stop very quickly. Sounds reproduced by our systems cause the system itself to vibrate, then the room, and the room feeds back into the system until the whole thing is ringing like a bell. This all happens very fast and can be seen demonstrated on a seismograph placed on a speaker. https://youtu.be/BOPXJDdwtk4?t=6That described what natural sounds are doing. It did not explain what springs and bellows are doing. The video itself is nice marketing attempt with not so nice technique. |
I didn't remove it. Some mod who sympathized with some triggered snowflake removed it. I stand by every single word. It is pointless trying to corrrespond with people who cannot comprehend even simple sentences. You for example spent the last two weeks hijacking a thread only to wind up corroborating every single thing I have been saying- but then acting like you reached some new and completely different understanding. That is why I created the list. I have this problem where I like to think everyone is just trying to learn. And therefore capable of learning. But the reality is there are people like you who, well you will have it removed if I say that so just let me say thanks to you I am back to the Hateful 18 list and you being on it, ... bye! |
millercarbon, I did not hijack your advertising thread. I elevated it to a more meaningful and trustworthy existence. You are welcome. You could have learned from that experience. Creating lists of people you ignore by default is not only silly, but it hinders your ability to learn. In fact, it implies you are not willing to learn and you are only willing to take opinion from those who have the same opinion as you do. That is not called learning, that is called trying to get somewhere by running in a circle. Guess why I read your posts? I am trying to check if I can gain something from them. No hateful list here. Still, you may need to change your style a bit if you want to gain more respect and get your messages across. Don’t take my word for it. Start your own thread "How can I improve?" and see what people tell you. I am serious. By the way, I asked for only three or four posts to be removed ever. They all included calls for death of a member, or similar. Insults do not trigger that response from me. |
I see a lot of folks on here expressing their opinions on something they haven't personally tried/owned. I see no value in that. It's one thing to say - yeah I bought it, didn't like it and got rid of it vs this will never work, I'd rather spend $5 on Amazon and get something that does the same thing. Theory and practice are two different things. I own the Townshend Podium's and I love them - they took by Rockport Atria's to another level. I believe in vibration isolation and I think the TA Podiums are probably one of the better products for speaker isolation. |