Thanks for this warm welcome... I am happy to see you again... Now i feel well...
It is good to see you back Mahgister!
I hope you've been keeping well.
Top two most important sound qualities
In case you didn't know, it's 2023 and this website still hasn't implemented a polling feature, so I can't define a selection of sound qualities to choose from and see results in a grouped, organized fashion. Boo hoo!
If you had to pick two of the typically referenced sound qualities that are most important to you to optimizing the enjoyment of your system, what are they? You know what I mean, right? Could be a certain frequency range and some particular quality that you for in it, or any quality that applies across all frequencies, etc.
(Note: "Sound qualities" mentioned here do not include anything that refers to physical attributes of your system or listening room, such as acoustical treatments, types of components, types of source material, physical tweaks, etc. It's only a reference to subjectively appreciated qualities.)
135 responses Add your response
I think acoustic timbre naturalness is first and second IMMERSIVENESS, i suppose your system is well designed enough to give you minimal clarity and the least distortion... Most well designed system are able to give us that now, with mature dac technology and amplification... Timbre naturalness is difficult to reach but immersiveness with headphone and speakers was harder the most to reach and asked for many, many modifications and experiments and tuning... With headphone it was more difficult for me...It takes a rare hybrid headphone to reach it AKG K340 and exceed my past Speakers Mission Cyrus 181 in his acoustic dedicated room... In this video this acoustician explain it all :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i7T1BiC-fI
|
Just for fun, I reworded the question slightly differently and below is what AI said - notice the caveat at the end: Q: What are two of the most important sound quality characteristics that a music lover looks for in their home audio system? A: Two important sound quality characteristics that a music lover typically looks for in their home audio system are:
While these two characteristics are important to many music lovers, it's worth noting that individual preferences may vary. Some listeners may prioritize other aspects, such as deep bass response, dynamic range, or tonal balance, based on their personal taste in music and listening preferences. |
@bdp24 wrote:
Exactly. Much has been said about how this or that speaker - oftentime the smaller, monitor-style variant - is able to seemingly "vanish" in its mere physical existence leaving only the sound hanging in free air, but it's still glaringly obvious what's heard is a reproduction. A lot of aspects in sound reproduction, incl. the recording and acoustics, can make for an exposition and revelation of what is not a live, musical event, but there are core parameters more important than others which, when achieved in some minimum measure, are at the basis of a framework of sorts that makes reproduced music appear less of a facsimile. Size and scale are vital for this to come true, as are effortlessness, dynamic linearity and overall coherency/uniformity of the radiation bubble/sphere, and in what's supposed to be an approximation to "High Fidelity" in its true sense of wording in this hobby of ours it's beyond me how mentioned "macro parameters" aren't more readily acknowledged and pursued. |
I don't know if anyone here is following the Generative AI stuff. I thought it'd be interesting to ask the following question to one of the Gen AI LLMs. This is the answer I got ... Q: What are Two of the most important sound quality characteristics that an audiophile looks for in their audio system? A: Two of the most important sound quality characteristics that an audiophile looks for in their audio playback system include:
|
Mid-range warmth which my system does well. Hear my WT system and compare with $30k Taiko Audio SGM Extreme server (with Boulder amps+ Vimberg spkr) in below videos. Original music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=682ePZmXKMo WT audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV8E3FqkJME Taiko Audio SGM Extreme server https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPENz0WLHPc ============ Hear it at T.H.E. Show / THE HOME ENTERTAINMENT SHOW LLC My room is # 372. Alex/Wavetouch |
@rauliruegas Perhaps you misunderstood what I said. My sub has a line level output with passive HPF at 80hz. Good enough for me. Noticably less distortion in the woofers and better imaging using that route to the amp. |
@gladmo : What I suggested can't do it with out an external crossover or a subwoofer with not only low pass crossover but with high pass too, this is the one that can take out from the Aerial woofer the bass range below 100hz and puts the IMD at way lower level. With out a high pass crossover filter it does not matters what you can do with one or two subs in favor to lower IMD: just can't do it.
R. |
@rauliruegas Appreciated. I’ve been looking into it lately after this was brought up by someone else recently. My sub does have a single ended HPF 80hz output, so I plan to try this today and listen for the difference. |
Dear @gladmo : " a consequence of minimized distortion. "
Btw, you can put at minimum the IMD in your system/speakers taking out the frequency bass range below 100hz on your Aerial's because the woofers crossover a little high at 400hz and the IMD down there is higher than ideal. The low bass dvelops high excursion on those woofers that afects at significative level all the frequencies above 100hz and this IMD goes against the mid range and high frequency ranges. You neeed to clean up down there, remember that low bass harmonics affects the overall quality speaker response. To do that you only need not one but 2 self powered subwoofers with high and low pass crossover filters. Worth to do it with great rewards.
R. |
Dear @fleschler : Rhythm and anynother characteristic is a consequence of the quality level of those transient response/time decay ( that's part of that TR ) / dynamic power. Rhythm is a controversial characteristic , obviously is critic in MUSIC as hrmony and other important characteristics and per sé depends of the overall score individual players. It's not easy to explain it but we know that " rhythm " when we are listening:
" The quality of rhythm is the quality of life; however vitally composers conceive their music, they must depend upon performers to recreate it rhythmically. "
"" After all, metres like the spondee, ♩♩, and the dispondee, ♩♩♩♩, need an accent on the first beat to keep their identity. Notwithstanding the opposite tendencies of metrical organization and stress accent, however, some metre is obviously subject to stress, so that metre and time measure become very closely linked, as in the scherzo of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony, where a measure has a strong first beat and at the same time follows a metre. "" Where MUSIC start other that the composition it self, well start at that or those first beat or beats by the different players in a group or orchestra the rhythm is " formed " by those transients/decay time and each dynamic power. In MUSIC all is important and not easy to define with presicion which is the more important characteristic and that's why could be so controversial. Transients and dynamic power always exist but not always with that " rhythm " that each one of us are accustom to and I can tell you that my perceived rhythm in a specific score could be different for you or even me or you can say: no rhythm here.A good rhythm is when our body is just " dancing " it's when we really are enjoying MUSIC and not only lisnet it but as I said is a " consequence ". Is so delicated that issue that in a home system a not so good room treatment could make a poor rhythm when the same score in other same system well room treatment the rhythm could shines.
R.
|
@vinocour 100% on your 3 part answer. Better than my comment which begins with rhythm as well. My wife will not watch opera except live performances (we have season tickets-she loves live opera) and certainly will not share my huge recorded collection (70,000-100,000 opera/classical vocal recordings). She has an affinity for 60-80s pop and rock in recorded form as after having attended 50+ concerts, she prefers a studio version absent distractions listening to her music. We share recorded classical instrumental music together. She’s not into jazz so much unless it’s live as well. |
I understand what is meant when people talk about an emotional vs cerebral type of listening, and I have two points to make about that, which you may find interesting.
1) It’s never either/or. No person is 100% one or the other. That’s not how human brains work. We all have our unique configurations, leaning more one way than the other, but both emotions and abstract thinking are regularly involved in the human experience.
2) Why do people like to physically attend a live show? Sure, they like the natural sound, the social engagement, the sensory stimulation, the thrill, and the feeling of doing something special. But they also go to *watch* the musicians perform in a 3D space, and not *just* to listen to the sound. Even a blind person at a live music event can perceive, probably with extraordinary accuracy, the sense of space within which the performance is happening, as well as the locations of the sounds inside that space. This is one of the reasons why I prefer smaller, intimate venues over gigantic productions. When we listen to recorded music on 2 channel systems at home, all this talk about "imaging" and "soundstaging" is important to people precisely for the same reason. The experience desired is that of being "as if" we are actually watching it, in addition to listening to it. People live in three dimensions, we experience life in three dimensions, and so we naturally want to have an inner sense of space and dimensionality when we listen to and feel the music that we love. |
Interesting to note responses. If your listening preference is analytical, cerebral the criteria will be different than if your listening preference is for emotional impact. Nice to see that some of the responses include both. In his well known book Get Better Sound, Jim Smith writes that emotional impact is created by three things, 1) Rhythm (accurate timing, that is, when all frequencies reach the ear at the same time - this is what gets my toes tapping and my head nodding), 2) Timbre ("tonality", the precise reproduction of harmonics, overtones, what makes an "A" on the piano,violin, saxophone, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, male & female voices sound different - this is what I find to be nurturing), 3) Dynamics (the variations in loud/soft, fast/slow, flowing, continuous/sharp, percussive, compare strings to the abrupt almost harsh shimmering attack of cymbals - these contrasts are what hold my attention and keep me engaged). Decades ago I started my audiophile journey listening cerebrally, critically while noting what moved me as secondary. I was listening to my system. At some point about 6-7 years ago I found it difficult to listen to my system anymore . . . . because the music kept distracting me and after some time I'd notice my eyes were closed and my body was moving. I'd forgotten to listen for whether the new preamp improved the sound stage, or the texture of the instruments (timbre) or the retrieval of detail. Finally I gave up and learned to just float in the music. A side benefit has been that this addiction has been costing less money. I am now clearly one who listens for emotional nourishment rather than cerebral satisfaction though I didn't start here. There is no "one size fits all", no "best". May you find what you personally enjoy most. |
@rauliruegas Yes, I chose tonality + clarity, and clarity is primarily a consequence of minimized distortion. Cheers |
To start with, without rhythm, there is no music. Timing is everything to music (just a single tone repeated at an interval can be considered music whereas random sounds do not constitute music). So, number one, the audio system has to maintain a good semblance of rhythm. Second, for me is the palpability of the sound, primarily mid-range where 90% of the music occurs. After that, it's your choice also dependent on type of music. |
Dear @gladmo : Transient response/dynamic power ( both directly telated and we can’t aisle each from the other) and very very low every kind of room/system developed distortions. Which the main difference between live MUSIC and home reproduced sounds?: for me precisely transient response that develops the MUSIC dynamic power and with dynamic power I’m not refering to SPL. Each instrument played at any SPL has its own dynamic power. Transient response/dynamic power is what develops the overall natural tone color in live MUSIC where between you and the MUSIC source exist almost only the air. For me all the audiophile adjectives for any room/system characteristics comes from there added by several kind of distortions that puts several kind of " colorations " to the whole room/system tone " color ". To stay truer to the recorded source we need those characteristics before looking for any other. We need to put at minimum evry kind of distortion developed at each link in the room/syastem chain, it helps. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@grislybutter Imaging is interesting to me because the way I think about it, it’s a complex thing. It can be discussed in much more detail than simple H/W/D for a soundstage. One thing I’m interested in, for example, is image regularity. For example, in the horizontal dimension, you can have a wide soundstage, but the image can warp and become too wide or two narrow at the outer edges of the SS. A cymbal there can seem twice as wide as the same cymbal positioned near center stage, while at the same time the center image can be squished so that the singer seems like a stick figure. That’s what I’m calling irregularity. Or there can be vertical irregularity. On speakers that stack their drivers’ frequency response from low to high, bottom to top, a piano will often sound like it’s dropping downwards vertically as lower keys/pitches are played. This type of vertical inaccuracy can sound like the whole piano is titled at a significant angle, but different cymbals and toms may still be at or near the proper heights. Image definition can be thought of as the capacity to be located ever more accurately in space and have the sense of the precise boundaries of the shape of each thing which is producing sound in the recording. So in the example of tilted piano issue, with very good image definition there could even be a slightly different locatable vertical+horizontal position in space for every single key. Vertical irregularity can also be a result of good definition in the upper frequencies, but poor definition in the bass and mids. Then you have something like defined, floating heads and cymbals, and a more fuzziness and lack of definition near the bottom half of the stage. Tonality plays into this stuff, especially in speakers with stacked drivers because, for example, when there is image definition but inaccurate tonal balance, cymbals can seem vertically compressed when they are lacking a full expression of all of their frequencies. Acoustics are also a big part of how a system can image, of course. |
As @julie_priest sez... |
I like to be able to receive from my Cornwalls… as in be able to LISTEN, as opposed to HEAR. I’m lucky in that I can listen in my small space… not having to battle room issues, acoustics, and the obstacles of having TOO MUCH. Too much power, too much space, too much wasted money spent beyond satisfactory… realizing what MY EARS hear… not some self- injected You Tube expert says, and most importantly: TRUSTING! |
Most loudspeakers sound comically "small" to me, the image of a grand piano, for example, being reduced to a miniature of it’s actual size.
Good point. I guess we don't expect lifesize image from HiFi because 99% of the systems we have ever heard don't have it. I graduated from bookshelf speakers to floorstanders and then 15 inch dual concentrics and whilst each one got better in this regard none of them have life sized imagery.
Effortlessness - that sense of ease that allows you to forget about the hardware and just hear the music.
That's another easy one to forget. Real music doesn't sound forced or strained but many systems do. You probably need the right combination of loudspeaker and amplifier to get that sense of ease. Usually that means bigger and more powerful. |
