@tomic601 - I've never heard that saying before - love it!! 😆
Those who seek to deny access to information
Like many/most here, one of the main reasons I frequent audiogon is to gather information. I am looking for ways to enhance the enjoyment I get from listening to music on my system. The information most valuable to me comes from those who share their actual experience with products that I am interested in, but have not heard in my system.
The audio community is a diverse one, with many opinions, ideas and perspectives. Many of them differ from mine, and that is fine. Those who disagree with me are free to make posts and start threads about whatever they choose. This doesn’t bother me, I am free to choose what I read, and what I don’t.
What does rile me up up is deliberate attempts to deny me (and others) access to the information that I value. There are some here who repeatedly seek to disrupt, sidetrack, derail, and shut down conversations about topics and products that trigger them. They do not contribute any useful information or experience to the discussion, and make disparaging comments about things they have zero experience with. They are bullies who mock, ridicule and provoke those who use, make and sell certain products. They seek to stifle any discussions about, and especially positive opinions of, the products and people they clearly have a vendetta against.
They can start their own threads, and talk about what a fool I am all day long, I don’t care. Their deliberate and repeated attempts to deny myself and others access to the information we value, however, are intolerable.
188 responses Add your response
| Post removed |
so it looks like you have been desperately raking thru all my posts trying to find some muck you can throw to discredit me. Why does that not surprise me? Well yes Ozzie my Robertson does sound pretty fine within its own power envelope next to my AR REF150SE and Ayre V-5xe. Admiitedly it does have a few audiophile doodads in it thanks to partsconnexion, but I’m a solder slinger from wayback and I just couldn’t resist the temptation. My Leben CS600 and AR Vsi60 make nice mid power tube options, while the Classe CAP 2100 isn’t bad for a higher powered integrated. As for my Naim/Exposure collection from my Brit period, it is far too extensive to list here. Then there is the stuff I built. The Marantz CD5000, as Lucas Lampizator rightly points out is probably the CD player bargain of the century as I was trying to bring to the attention of cash strapped audiophiles on this forum - especially when you take the output straght from the DA chip and bypass all the nasty output circuitry. And yes, it does sound mighty fine, if slightly outclssed when put up against my Wadia or Meridian transport and any one of about five far more expensive DACs (Chord, PS,Schiit, Alpha). My old Naim CD5XS still sounds pretty good downstairs. So there you have it Ozzie. Enough name dropping for you? do I make it into the club? I know I’ve sure got a hoarding problem. I forgot to mention that I have been building tube gear for over 50 years and do commissions (phono, line, pp, SETs), but I guess that wouldn’t count for much in your world. |
Too much people are preoccupied by OTHERS persona and not enough by ideas in audio or in any other fields.. I love everyone here even those who are "annoying" and very difficult to love... Any being is interesting anyway... I am only interested by book, ideas, and in audio, by acoustic... Gear upgrade to me is a dead end if gear upgrade replace acoustic methods... Because many people dont discuss ideas in any matter but only gives impressions and communicate their taste about gear, i am less involved or less tempted to be involved...I never essentially in my thread be promoting mainly the gear itself save for their exceptional ratio quality/price... Censorship, or insults put me away.... And childish divisions between objectivist obsessed by measures and subjectivist obsessed by their tastes are a creation of conflicting marketing methods, not basic audio listenings experiments, then much of all audio thread are way less appealing... Anyway i listen music, my system is finished....Upgrading is ridiculously useless for me....Even for sure if it is always possible....My system is 500 bucks though and anything more costly seems to me useless consumerism because basic S.Q. is already mine; thanks especially to acoustic which is something that interest very few people because we need a dedicated room anyway... I will come to discuss ideas....Not tastes or costly tweaks....😁😊 My respect to all....
|
regarding the posting of a user system, i have the following thoughts - i can see both sides of the equation... there are folks who show their gear, there are those that don’t -- for either stance, there are right (honorable) and wrong (dishonorable) reasons for doing so - for active participants here, i feel on balance it is good to show their gear, their setup... as it is indicative of their experience level, their depth of knowledge, their degree of commitment to the pursuit -- especially if they give a lot of advice and share alot of knowledge here ... like one’s track record of buying and selling here, it shows a) we are dealing with a real person, b) that person has had real dealings with other enthusiasts, and if the feedback is good, that that person is a good person... you simply cannot fake a mountain of only positive feedback over years, and c) that person has been at this passion for some time, and there is a base of experience behind the posts they make - of course posting gear can be taken too far, and some people do it for the wrong reasons, to boost their fragile egos, kind of modern currency in the sad ’look at me’ culture, mistaking that a person’s worth and knowledge is measured just by material things owned - that said, a good hifi is made of certain well selected things, these are indeed things that are necessary to reproduce lovely music in our abodes, so for a user to show those things fill out a picture of where that person is coming from... - the problem i have is, as ozzy points out, is when there are folks who come here, post ALOT, usually to tell someone else they are wrong and need to shut-up, they don’t know what they are talking about, they are trying to pull wool over others’ eyes, some folks keep jabbing and sniping, without relent, tit for tat, again and again, must always have the last word (as if there is such a thing...) -- that gets old for many of us here, it makes us wonder, so mr. hotshot -- who the hell are you? what is the basis for the high horse you are riding? are you actually credible in what you say? what is the base of your experience? not posting a system in this case, not showing any track record, not showing you are a real person... is a problem - end of day, i feel, you want to lay low, don’t show your gear, your track record, then lay low, and be more careful, modest, selective in your commentary, so as to stay consistent with these very values you claim to espouse -- don’t try to have it both ways, people here aren’t stupid, they see through it, see the b-s my 2 cents |
| Post removed |
@dabel It’s true! It’s part of the never ending upgrade cycle. You have to buy new stuff since it won’t sound as good. That’s why they want you to post photos of your system….. they’re all in cahoots… |
Lol @femoore12. If this were truth, please enlighten me. Huh! A now level playing field, how could it be …. 🙃 |
| Post removed |
))) ... THIS IS CAPITALISM GUY - A WAR FOR MONEY AND THE MARKET ... this does not imply honesty, friendship, generosity ... you are alone in the jungle of electronics ... (of course there are exceptions, but there are few of them against the general background) ... secrets are hidden in this system - otherwise you will not bring money ... (there are also many simply stupid people without experience and knowledge) |
| Post removed |
@onhwy61 Dunno exactly what would constitute an acid test for “ serious audiophile “…. but this is a mighty fine physical enunciation….
|
“ you don’t need to even own a system, it’s more a state of mind and attitude. one of the most active passionate serious audiophiles i know does not own a system. but he is all in on the hobby and the music.’ Exactly so ! … Recently highlighted by Denny and his minions espousing that anyone not displaying a series of glossy images of their audio vanity project are not worthy of making comment on this forum … |
I don’t see where the forums are stopping anyone from being serious audiophiles. It’s actually much easier to get really good sound these days than ever. So in that sense more successful audiophiles than ever. Times change. Gotta get with the times. Just keep it civil and be respectful of others! That should never change. No need to never be satisfied in order to join the club. |
I dunno. My sense is Audiogon is gonna do whatever they do. This is tail wagging dog isn’t it? They don’t make money from the forum except I guess from advertising? I think there is still a broad, worldwide audience for this site and occasionally see cross posts from other fora posted here. Somehow, I can manage to navigate through or past the contentious nonsense, but the real loss is a disappeared thread that got "deleted" and had good info until it turned into a train wreck. My experience with other sites is that the stuff isn’t actually deleted, it is just concealed or "unpublished." But it would take time and effort to go back through those and curate them to restore them without the "bad" posts. And going forward, it requires a degree of moderation that simply isn’t happening-- another user pointed that out to me. That’s why, unless something is completely outrageous, I will not flag a post. And some stuff can go on for pages that is irrelevant to audio. I hate this saying, but "it is what it is." The culture of a board is made up by its users. The rules or terms of use are really there for the rule abiding in my experience. And it’s been a while since I looked at the TOU but it could be stronger. However, it comes back to enforcement and I don’t think A-Gon has the moderator resources. Perhaps with a clear set of rules and some volunteer mods, they could do better. I dunno. I do know that anyone who volunteers to be a moderator shouldn’t-- kind of like being the hall monitor. |
What are the hallmarks of a serious audiophile? Just curious. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CANI Continual Music is "The Gospel" from man/woman to man/woman. It is a labor of Love from a few for all to enjoy. "fag an benlach" Gaelic for " "Clear the Way" and the Bagpipes play on the Virginia battlefield. Singin’ cryin’ and dyin’. "fag an benlach" "CLEAR THE WAY" The passion that sent them, brother against brother is the same passion in music. WARS were fought over German vs Italian opera. The greatest sign of all is "PASSION" in anyone’s PHILIA. No mark for the one who is silent, speak up. The only thing between anyone’s passion is the fear of fear itself. "I would rather you be, HOT or COLD, but lukewarm I will spit you out of my mouth" Author GOD... PASSION, commitment and sharing. Regards |
it has nothing to do with money. it is about having a serious interest in enjoying the best possible music reproduction. it’s about having the passion to appreciate the process of advancing toward better sound and musical enjoyment. and also to want to learn, or help others learn. you don’t need to even own a system, it’s more a state of mind and attitude. one of the most active passionate serious audiophiles i know does not own a system. but he is all in on the hobby and the music. i could get into what it’s not, but one only needs to read this and other threads to easily see about that. people get caught up in all sorts of agendas or hang ups and miss the joy and fun of it. |
Audiogon is past the point of pulling it back to only serious users. it’s the wild wild west and you can’t un-ring the bell. about the only thing i can think of that would change the culture immediately, would be to mix system page posts with the forum feed threads. all of a sudden then the system building activity would get attention, and the trolls and non listener know-it-all’s would be marginalized since they would not be relevant. someone’s personal system has a different vibe than a regular thread topic. it holds a person and a life. the members would push out rabble rousers. that is how it was to begin with, and system pages got lots of action. it held serious users here on Audiogon. like me. would it be good for Audiogon, Inc.? don’t know. you’d have to ask them. btw; i have suggested it a few times but it went no where. |
| Post removed |
@tomic601 said: " I don’t come to ANY Audio site to hear about the gold standard, the Fed, Cancel culture, Jordan Peterson, vaccines, a Chinese plot , hanging chads, etc…". Amen. |
I fully agree with this. There was a dude not a long time ago who literally came back with a dozen usernames. A few times the same day the previous username was banned. Ridiculous
Another feature I would like to see added is to be able to block a user. So that they would be unable to see my posts, and me unable to see their posts. Facebook has this, and many other sites.
|
@ozzy @mikelavigne So true….. I frequent WB but don’t post much. My main hangout here is the music section. I don’t come to ANY Audio site to hear about the gold standard, the Fed, Cancel culture, Jordan Peterson, vaccines, a Chinese plot , hanging chads, etc….. Best jim |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
The real test of whether things could or would change or not, is to do as the canuck audio forum has done. Have a cable and tweak forum area with this as a warning at the top of that particular forum area: Forum rulesThe Cables forum is intended for those who believe cables make a difference in how their systems sound. If you do not believe in cables please do not post in any threads that are discussing specific cables or asking for help with cables, and limit your participation to threads where the OP intends to debate about cables. Posts which are argumentative, offensive, or break our rules may be deleted. Repeat offenders will be banned from posting in this forum. ~~~~~~~ FYI, those rules do indeed include the idea of trying to follow the letter of the stated rules but violating the spirit of the rules in any way that one can. Snide cloaked remarks, etc. Little janusian two faced remarks that can be interpreted all kinds of ways and so on. Those are also banning offenses. No effing around. period. ~~~~~~~ the next thing they need to do, is to deal with repeat (banned) offenders, that use the same IP over and over and over, with new ID’s. To do as some forums do. Ban IPs. Not users. IPs. |
@grannyring thanks. i keep coming back to the ’Gon’ and look-see a couple of times a day. and post occasionally. plenty of quality posters. many times i see a topic that might offer some interest, but then look and it’s already blown apart. not always, but more times than not. i just don’t align with a high portion of posters here, i take the hobby more seriously. their hobby goals and thinking is vastly different than mine. so it does not work for my place to hang. more pick my spots. which is ok. love the hobby and forums don’t have to be anything but what they are, then we go where it’s satisfying to go. |
| Post removed |
The What’s Best Forum is just great. I am signed up and active there now. As @mikelavigne correctly stated we have other choices. My account will stay active here should I need to buy something. However, the enjoyable forum this once was is now gone with very few thread exceptions. See you there Ken. |
| Post removed |
I feel like you need to get to square one and start doin some math. It will help you a LOT in terms of tolerance and various other factors. My math tells the following before I made any science: First of all, I don't feel like anyone does that to me as you mentioned about you. That means that you should evaluate what you've posted and what was reaction from other people sharing other experiences. Second, you'll need to figure out whether you need to try to prove your point or just get around it. Proving point DOES require doing some extensive science and not from Stereophile or any advertising magazines, but from the scholar text books, if you know about those. |
| Post removed |
