Thinking about another amplifier (Galion)

I found this review of the Galion to be the most helpful one I've seen on the net despite the somewhat cheesy presentation. He goes over the pros and cons at the end which I found helpful. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRESSN5xQyw

Funny. I believe I've watched every YouTube video on this amp...except for this guy's. When I came this guy, I immediately skipped over him because I saw a flame-thrower at the beginning of the video. Since you mentioned it was helpful, I'll check it out. 

Your post got me thinking about off brands in high end audio… new contenders, lower cost with similar designs, new designs with new tech. I never heard of Galion. So I looked them up and read some stuff about them.

So, my thoughts run along two lines. First buying an amp for the same price as what you own typically replaces one set of weaknesses for another. This has been my experience every time. I am elated at a couple strengths and then really disappointed because I really lost some aspects I liked. So, I never do this any more.

When you move up in the quality of audio equipment all aspects get better… well if you choose well. I mean if you like really musical and you choose an ss amp known for high levels of detail you may be disappointed. But, if chosen for your tastes then doubling the investment improves all aspects (as it should). If you think of audio equipment as an onion… the higher you reach the more layers they get right. I never invest in less than 2x investment of my current component (with extensive research). That has always assured me each component was significant upgrade.

My second line of thought is that I now stick with the mainstream leaders. There is a reason they are the leaders. They are not a flash in the pan. They have a vision and have pursued it layer after layer of the onion. A great piece of equipment from these guys will allow you to discover nuances in music you did not know were there. They have worked on developing and refining equipment and sound quality for decades. For me Audio Research and Conrad Johnson cater to the sound I want. Other companies like Pass and Krell make amazing intermediate sounding components, then Boulder and Mark Levinson make more lean detailed stuff.

Given what you have said, I think you should trade in your current amp (after hearing) Audio Research and Conrad Johnson for an integrated of twice the value.

I got to my current system by upgrading my headphone system to a great and powerful 300B system and realizing how deficient my main system was. So I upgraded my main system to be as warm and as musical. My system is now all Audio Research. It does everything right.

I agree with the previous comments, you'll be giving up too much in areas where your current amp excels for some extra bass, which might not even be that noticible considering you are already using a sub.  I'd tinker with the sub to get the bass response you need or consider adding a second sub. 

i believe moving from your line mag amp to the galion would be a bad move... bass will not improve significantly and there will be a loss in the beauty in the mids and highs, which are more important

get a second, matching sub (or trade your single s510 for a pair of t9's)  and dial it in correctly in your room

Another sub or three will take care of the bass issue.

Re the Galion. Google Doge Amps. I had an email from

them 2 weeks ago. It seemed like the same amp as Galion

for $1,700. Another to compare to is the Wilsenton Amps

Line Magnetic and Tannoy should produce great sound.

Tannoys stop about 40db. Gott to add subs. 2 more of the

little REL  5Tx model will do it!

I keep coming across this Galion amp for some reason. 

Because it's heavily promoted by a Thomas, who also happens to be a Youtube influencer, who has gotten his other influencer peers to review it.

It may be a good amp, but I'm suspicious that it is as good as it's touted to be, especially compared to the many serious products with longer track records out there. 

Veerosi, 

I have a very similar amp to yours. My 805 amp is reportedly built in the same factory as yours. 
 

while I haven’t heard the Galion, I’m very familiar with Doge (the manufacturer) and Primaluna (your previous amp). 
 

Do you like the Line Magnetic more than the Primaluna? If so, you may find the Galion to sound more like the latter. If you generally have enough headroom I’d keep the LM. 
 

If your LM drives the 93dB Tannoys to your liking, I’d do what others suggest and get two REL T9i.  

The problem is no one has this amplifier and it just simply does too much for the price. It’s seems a low end product.

I don’t really hear anything positive about this product. It is very interesting and pretty.

I'm not sure why anyone would be drawn to the specs of the TS120 since it's essentially a re-badged Doge 10, which can be found used for half of what is being asked for the 120. If you're going there for the tone controls, would a Schitt Loki Max allow you to keep the "super-sweet and syrupy mid-range" of the LM-805ia, with the option of juicing the lower frequencies when needed?

I take the YouTube marketing machine hype with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I have a small LM Audio amp the 216i. I was told by the dealer years ago that two brothers (one brother had now passed) who own and design the products based the design(s) off the old US brand Western Electric. I think some Chinese audio companies are building these very good amps largely upon the heels of older tried and true tube amp designs. The fact they are built in China keeps the cost down and I believe ARC and other brands will charge at least 50% to 150% more for equivalent products. LM Audio has given me great service. I know there are many, many Chinese audio companies offering products on amazon, ebay, other outlets but there are a few that offer very good quality products that are well designed and made. Conversely there are many American, European and other companies making products with Chinese made parts. One has to go about the delicate sometimes tedious research process of finding quality audio companies which are across the globe.

I have not seen a legitimate review of this product.  I recall one yt reviewer and he tried to explained the product and never listened to it.

@emergingsoul I've not heard or read a legit review yet either. YT can be such an overheated circle-jerk on so many things, audio included. How else could Steve Huff make so much money about talking to the dead? Insert P.T. Barnum quote, here.

Thank you for the responses and good info so far. I’m aligned with your responses and still haven’t ruled out going with an additional sub instead of an amp. Other possibilities include room treatment focused on lower frequency management, doubling the investment price, or buying a cherry condition used high-ender brand amplifier, or just walking away from the purchase altogether. Another amplifier I was eyeballing is the Decware 300b Sarah, but no remote! Who the HE-double hockey sticks wants an amp without a remote?!? Well, apparently a sh*t-load of energetic people who like to ruin the mood by getting up to change the volume do. That’s who. Don’t get me started on their waitlist.

I reached out to Thomas at Galion to explain my situation and asked if there is a chance of testing one so I can avoid blind purchase/ possible disappointment etc and he said yes. I just received tracking info and I should have it sometime next week.

Needless to say, I’m pretty happy about this. I’ll have 7 days to test it out then will need to return it to Galion. Crisis averted...for now.

@veerossi great news. When you get it, I'd love to hear what you think about it. The thing that bothers me a bit about the amp is how much warm up time is needed for it to sound the best and if you change a setting it is start over from the beginning. 

ghdprentice

I was looking at Audio Research's amplifiers and there are very nice. Unfortunately, I saw this thread today: 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-research-in-receivership?utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=website

OP,

I am aware of the current status of Audio Research. It would not deter me in any way from buying a new or used component. I have owned multiple components for over 30 years without failure. So, great opportunity to snatch up a world class audio product regardless of their current status. 
 

Audio Research will continue. Trent was a great owner, and I am very sorry for the perfect storm that hit him shortly after he purchased the company… interest rate increase, tube cost increase, and inflation. I have communicated with him a number of times… great individual. But Audio Research will live on. I would unhesitatingly buy any of their products.

@veerossi Just doing a quick look, the "bankruptcy" isn't filed under Federal law, it is in Minnesota under state law. Companies use these reorganization statutes to deal with debt that they can't handle sometimes to slow things down. Creditors have very little incentive to want a sell off of the assets (going out of business sale) because there would only be pennies returned on the dollar. The assignment to the LIghthouse Management is not unlike a Trustee in Bankruptcy who is there to make sure everything is done correctly and no one is hiding anything. 

There are later posts in the thread which say that the company is still operating as normal. In any event, you probably have 2 results. Either the company gets reorganized and run better or more efficiently or there is a fire sale and you can pick up products at good prices. You're probably ok either way especially if the products are as good as @ghdprentice says. 

I wouldn’t move from Line Magnetic to Galion. You can buy the Galion and compare. If you like it more, then sell the LM.  I have LM 518ia and it’s one amplifier that still stays in my system since I bought it and I have tried 7-8 amps the last 3 years. The midrange on Line Magnetic is just superb, true that the bass is not so tight and I compensate that with a subwoofer. 

Wow that’s pretty cool of Thomas to offer a home trial.  How does it sound, is it a keeper? 

I was able to spend a month with the Galion TS120SE. The week before the Galion arrived, I listened to my current (Line Magnetic) amplifier every night for a couple so everything would be fresh and familiar. Like most of us, I have a reference playlist with songs I’m intimately familiar with.

On the day the Galion arrived I listened for a few hours. My initial thoughts were that it definitely lived up to the claims from Thomas as well as the other Youtubers that reviewed it. He wasn’t joking about it having solid-state-like bass. The bass is great. I liked it a lot. Regardless of what some might have to say about tone controls, I like them. They don't have a ton of adjustment, but it's enough so I can dial in for my liking. I tried switching modes back/forth from bypass to active tone controls (with the knobs in the neutral setting) and I couldn’t hear a difference. I’m not sure if this is an accurate way to test if the tone knobs affect sound quality or not though.

I listened for about a week with the stock tubes and then started wondering how it would respond to tube rolling. I ordered 4qty of the newer Mullard KT88’s, 2 qty Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7, and 2qty 12AU7’s and was curious to see if the Galion would respond to tube rolling in the same favorable way my Line Magnetic did. I swapped the 12AU7’s first and was noticed a wider sound stage. The stock tubes were okay, but the Gold Lions were definitely an improvement as far as soundstage width is concerned. After about 8 hours of listening, I installed the 12AX7’s. They changed the tone a bit, but not much else. I would still recommend them, but not entirely necessary. Lastly, I dropped in the quartet of Mullard KT88’s. Those smoothed things out nicely. After all was said and done with the tube rolling, I was happy with it sounded

One feature I really liked is that is has dedicated RCA outs for a L/R subs. I used those to connect my DEBRA sub array and it sounded much better with dedicated RCA sub connections. On the LM, I had a DIY/ millercarbon recommended line out converter. With Galion sub outs the bass went deeper, was less boomy, cleaner and tighter with more impact.

The midrange was good, but didn’t have the same amount of openness as my L/M. I will say at certain times the Galion did seem to have more soundstage depth though.

The the imaging was great and instruments were nicely separated. No complaints here. The only thing I noticed was in only vocal songs, it sounded more compact than my L/M. The LM seemed slightly more “tubey” sounding and holographic than the Galion.

The top end was nice. No complaints at all. I watched a video that mentioned the top end was harsh early on, but I had no such experience. It was smooth and I listened for hours and hours with no fatigue.

These last 3 things are minor issues, but are things that I would change:

1. Bright blue LED lights are not pleasing to my eyes. I put electrical tape over all of them.

2. The remote buttons are loud. When listening at low volume, even if you smother the button with your entire thumb pad, I can’t make it quieter. It makes a loud click. I would put some electrical tape over those as well to dampen the sound a bit.

3. When I adjust volume (which is often) the volume increment movement is a bit too much. One bump of the volume button would make it loud enough where I’d have to get up and set it manually lower about 1/2 the movement.

In the end, I did not buy it and ended up sending it to the next reviewer. Thomas was great and sent a UPS label to cover shipping. He also sent me a set of Shuangang KT88’s to try out. Those were a little too warm for me/ too much bass. The Mullard KT88’s sounded better to me. Also worth mentioning: the Galion auto biasing worked flawlessly for me.

If you are thinking about it, I say go for it. If the Galion was out when I bought the Primluna EVO 300, I would have purchased the Galion instead. It sounds better to me and I’d also have saved a nice chunk of change.