duramax747
Besides Pass Labs power amps, what other gear/cabling is in your system?
Happy Listening!
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,448 responses Add your response
jafant, Sadly I do not have a system setup. I'm keeping the CS 7.2 as with some effort they are tough to beat even in the 20-30k range. The Pass Labs will stay as they mate very well with the Thiel's. From my experience a tube pre amp is a worth while addition. I have a Supratek Grange Signature. You add that 300B mids while maintaining the sparkle on top and the solid bottom end with the Pass. The three are the best synergy I have experienced in a Thiel rig. At the moment I am looking at DACS in the 10-15k range. Cabling is a crap shoot. I have quite a few to choose from. I'm hoping Tom takes the 7.2 crossover on. I want to make them external and replace the internal wiring. I'm going to sell the CS6 and maybe the CS 2.4SE as my listening room is too large for them.
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duramax747
Thank you for the update. Take your time building any Reference system.
Happy Listening! |
Recently I started to experiment with pro amps, my reference is a wonderful McCormack DNA-2 and one of my set of speakers are Thiel 3.6, I got the opportunity to buy for good price a Crown I-Tech 9000HD and the result is something difficult to explain in words, it's crazy powerful (1500W for channel), made for pro use, normally no considered for home listening among audiophiles, snubbed and not worthy. I simply say, try it if you can, without preconceptions, then come back here to report your opinion. It manage the bastard low load of 3.6 as no other, cost no object, no trace of harshness in mid-high region, bass impact is unbeliveable with a great soundstage. Could no belive to such level of performance if I was only told about. Price is no cheap, around 8000$ new, but worth to give it a try before to go to conclusion. I will not get rid of my McCormack but the progress in technology is there for a good reason. |
silvanik
Good to see you here again. The Crown brand is tops in the Pro Audio world. Peavey is a close second. One could not go wrong with either brand. Are you keeping the Crown I Tech 9000HD ? Always good to read about another McCormack fan and owner. It is a proven Sonic match for Thiel Audio speakers.
Happy Listening! |
Thiel CS5 Best Offer For - US Audio Mart Sounds good, although there are no pictures yet. |
Here’s a little catch-up report. During the summer I got snatches of time to evaluate outboard crossovers and internal wiring. I have added some stunning KimberKable solid silver 3-braid to the mix. Some may remember awhile back when some of us compared single-polarity runs vs +/- paired-polarity runs. We were comparing amp to speaker runs and the main problem with singles was variable wire to wire distance causing transmission anomalies. But we were all enamored by the quick, uncomplicated sound of the parallel configuration. I spoke with Ray Kimber, who wholeheartedly recommended the single polarity solution, which is now included in my trials. In the cabinet, each run can be stuck to the wall with butyl rubber goo. What a sonic treat - from the point of view of ease and lack of dynamic congestion. Kimber’s samples of AGSS 3-Braid (stranded) and AGSC(MST) 3-Braid (solid) employ 3 conductors in a braid for each separated polarity run. MST stands for Magnetic Stealth Trio. Insulation is teflon. I’ll be getting copper samples soon. The CS1.5 is my current workhorse, having 4 relatively short runs from the outboard XO to the drivers. |
In the realm of disc-spinners, I’ve broken into the twenty-first century. I picked up a Sony S9000ES player. Alas, it came with the wrong remote and I haven’t yet played SACDs with it, but I’m searching for a RMT-D122 required for this player. I have finally fired up the SCD-1 bohemoth that I snagged from the Thiel Audio auction. Its SACD section is kaput via Bill Thalmann’s diagnosis of a motherboard issue. But the CD section is quite a treat. Wow. I have retired my erstwhile Philips CD80 which has served me well for 32 years. Time comes for everything. Anyone here know anything about the SCD-1’s selectable filters? The (70 page!) manual gives marketing speak descriptions of the 4 alternative ’slow’ filters. I’d love to learn the actual performance parameters of each. |
tomthiel
Thank you for the cabling/ XO update. Very cool to have consultation with Mr. Ray Kimber. His cables are a Sonic match for Thiel Audio speakers. If you need a second opinion, reach out to Taylor at Gold Print Audio. He used to represent Thiel Audio. Currently represents Kimber Kable for a long time.
Happy Listening! |
tomthiel
Nice catch ! On the Sony S9000Es player. Those remotes are plentiful on eBay. Now, to address your query. All of my spinners, minus the AYRE, have those Digital “filters”. While it is a marketing ploy, to a degree, these are fine-tuning tone controls for CD or SACD playback. Test drive each filter or setting to your ear brain. Purely customized to the user’s taste. Both S9000es and SCD-1 are very well annotated and documented in Audio forums. You will have zero trouble finding out pertinent information on both machines. Those filters are very subtle. You will find the one that best suits your personal Playback taste. Try to have a quiet environment for best outcome. Keep me posted as you finagle this fun process. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy Listening! |
The operational and service manuals have lots of information, including a caricature description of the filters. However, I located Sony's white paper on the SCD-1 which has more detail including frequency responses of the 5 filters. However, I want to look at how the reconstructions affect the time domain. I'm developing a mental framework, but that task would be more effective and productive with more information. Do you know where that filter discussion / information might be found? |
tomthiel
Outstanding! A White Paper will certainly provide much insight for your discretion.
Sony is/was big on “Bass Management “ those 5 selectable Filters will tie into their philosophy. To start, Google Sony SCD-1 forums and reviews. This player is 20 years old, so, have your readers on. I will do some detective work on my end as well. Give me a few days.
Happy Listening! |
tomthiel
Google : Sony SCD-1 player reviews. The first entry will be an outstanding Stereophile review by Jonathan Scull 1999. I have this magazine in my collection and remember reading it circa 1999. Mr. Scull does an excellent job interpreting and reviewing this State Of The Art spinner. Specifically, those 5 filters are examined at length. This will be a starting point. more to follow, Happy Listening! |
tomthiel
Excellent! Good to read that you have a contact at Sony. Perhaps your contact has a RM - Remote Control for S9000es. please ask about RM - Remote Control SX700. This matches SCD 9000es Player.
Ultimately, you ears will find favor among those Filters. The Stereophile article even mentions 1 filter specifically for Classical Music. Very impressive.
Happy Listening! |
Happy Standard Time All tom When I started upgrading the speakers I ran single wires from the 3 speakers , with the coaxial mid/tweeter wires + running together and the - running together separated thru the original holes in the coaxial chamber down the width of the back of the speaker behind the woofer and thru the original holes in the bracing that separates the woofer from where the crossovers are . I kept this setup until my experimenting with the single speaker wiring showed me that while It seemed like I was hearing a more dynamic sound over time I discovered that there was a graininess to it after going back to using Cardas Neutral Reference speaker cables I decided to try twisting the internal wires into +/- pairs like the the wiring in Thiel speakers (if you remember my speakers had 16awg wires constructed with +/- running together in parallel , one reason that I started the upgrading) , this resulted in a smoother sound . Maybe the 3 wire single polarity twist will solve the graininess . I look forward to your findings on this setup . |
Robert - As I recall your parallel internal wires were MonsterCable or equivalent. Twisted pairs (as in stock Thiel) address the relevant problems, plus they are what Jim designed with, considering their inherent capacitance, inductance and resistance. If I land on Kimber MST or the Iconoclast equivalent, there may be crossover adjustments for the differences in C/L/R from stock wire. These braided runs resolve propagation effects differently than twisted pair; fans believe they do so more elegantly. It seems these effects are too subtle and/or complex to be modeled in obvious ways. I had previously dismissed them due to my lack of understanding of the interacting variables. Ray has encouraged me to include them in my trials. Previously I had auditioned the Iconoclast braided conductor speaker wire. It is excellent albeit very expensive. I have approached them about virtues and problems with their wire as single runs rather than the +/- runs that I auditioned. And the beat goes on. |
Thank You jafant I agree with you about having multiple copies of the Beatles , but I had never sat down and compared them back to back and over and over again like I did with Revolver . I remember when I bought the re-mastered version of Sgt. Pepper in mono ( my first mono Beatles LP ) listening and hearing differences from the stereo version pressings that I own , the same can be said about Magical Mystery Tour and Revolver . While I like listening to mono versions for being so well mastered I'm still a stereo guy and Giles Martin did a great job with the 50th anniversary releases and the Revolver release . I give another listen when my new tonearm arrives and then again when the last crossover capacitors arrive from Clarity , finishing ( maybe ) my speaker upgrade .
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thieliste The CS3.7 posts look like the 2.7's , if so you will have to drill a round hole since the Thiel posts are rectangle ( I discovered that this is a great idea , one can make a very tight connection ) . You have to start with a small drill bit and work you way up to the diameter needed . Good Luck and Be Patient |
In my considerable messing around with posts, augmented by some industry opinions that I trust - - - I suspect that geometry may be more important than materials. The original Thiel posts with plastic caps were compared to many 'superior' contenders and always came out on top or on top considering big price jumps for 'better'. I suspect Thiel succumbed to market pressure to have something 'better'. The later Thiel posts are gold on brass (I think), plus pretty beefy. My experiments lead me to believe that bigger is not better, and can indeed be worse due to eddy current generation due to abrupt changes in conductive mass in the presence of rapidly changing signal level and direction. I'm not a fan of beefy connectors regardless of their materials. WBT makes a low mass, small contact x high pressure post that I am evaluating. They developed a way to deposit 3 molecule thick gold onto good copper. There are also tweaky posts which take that idea further via non-conductive carbon dshells with only a single conducting wire on the tangent. Danny Ritchie of GR research produces a thin shell tube connector. I don't know anything about Mundorf's solution. I have no final determination, rather a developing opinion that low conductive mass is better. I am looking forward to your Mundorf vs stock report. |