@tomthiel, at the risk of beating a dead horse, please note in order to have a consistent, generally available reference that I used the Audiogon Blue Book for pricing. I also used end of cycle pricing for the CS 3.5's combination, and beginning of cycle pricing for the CS 3.7's combination. The original pricing for the CS 3.5's was about $2550 and the original pricing for the Threshold S500 was about $2900. Of course that doesn't take inflation into consideration. The end of cycle Threshold S550e was priced over twice that cost, which included a nice upgrade of dual trannies and true balanced inputs, that couldn't be used with the 3.5's eq. On the other hand the $11,000 pricing quote of the 3.7's seems quite low, as the Stereophile link suggests $12,900. IMO, the CS 3.5's were and are one of the all time audio bargains. Kudos to you and the rest of the Thiel team!
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,807 responses Add your response
@jon_5912 I don't know that the CJ is rolling off the treble. At least, it doesn't sound like it - it doesn't sound darker, in fact a bit more lower treble illumination. In comparison the Bryston actually sounds a bit darker. And of course the differences I'm describing fits in to the "picky little audiophile differences" category. But as we all know, those little differences we seize on to can have big subjective effects in how we enjoy our systems. I swear, sometimes I feel like I might not even be in this hobby if it weren't for tube amps :-) |
Thielrules I did not use REW- and did not know about it until your mention. Room EQ Wizard? I’ll download and check it out. I simply used Logic’s EQ plugin and snapped a few pics while pink noise was playing. I didn’t go too crazy with it. I also recorded musical passages to compare by ear. Email is noams@comcast.net if you’d like to see what I got - imperfect as my methods where. |
Unsound - good horses keep living and living. Your judicious explication reminds me of a general theme which our Goners might enjoy. Thiel presented a peculiar problem for many retailers, including Innovative Audio. Retailers make packages. Those packages follow guidelines or rules. In the day it went something like one third budget for source, a third for amplification and a third for speakers. Give or take a lot. Thiel comes along and the formula crumbles because Thiel rarely sounds very good with an equally priced amp, and someone with twice the amp budget is inclined to believe that a speaker at twice the price of Thiel is better for him/her. (Most often him - often her perspective permitted the Thiel, damn the formula.) Jim had no patience for what he considered such illogical behavior. His formula was that lower prices make easier sales. He also fought to lower prices, especially at product introduction, with unrealistic and ill-founded ideas of how costs would fall as production rose. In fact the opposite was true, but that’s a different story. But the fallout was that just as the retailers settled into their Thiel pricing / presentation strategy, the prices would rise significantly to the consternation of many dealers. The joys of sales rival those of manufacturing. LOL. Audio Consultants in Chicago broke the mold splendidly. They set up Thiels in multiple rooms spread over multiple stores so that customers could hear $2500 speakers driven by $10,000 amps and understand that the whole budget was well spent. AC was our top dealer year after year. |
From 1996 to 2004 I had CS .5 speakers paired with an ADS A2 integrated amp. It was a decent and highly enjoyable combination. Then my ADS A2 gave up the ghost after some 20 years of faithful service. Simon, the owner of Audio Consultants suggested a used four year old Bryston 3BST as a replacement. Turns out I really didn't know what I had until the Bryston amp together with a Bryston preamp replaced the ADS A2. What I then heard from the CS .5 speakers was an absolute revelation. |
I use the CJ Premier 12 monoblocks (140W/side).Tube richness but with power, grip, control and nothing "slow" about the sound. Michael Fremer truly nailed the sound in this review: https://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/653/index.html |
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/speaker-project-gallery/45255-thiel-cs3-5-cabinets-project/p... I wonder if the crossover is copying the original and new drivers or completely different... |
I jumped the gun and decided to contact AccurateSound.ca to do the DRC from my ROON based music (not my tuner or SACD player). My speakers have 2 brand new COAX drivers with less than 10 hours burn-in, I was told 200 is needed. So far, with these new drivers, my system has sounded the best. Which makes sense after fixing all the damaged driver, wring, and air leak issues. So I decided to jump the gun and see what Mitch Barnett could do with system in it’s current form. I sent him the measurements that he needed and a few hours later he came back with the first of 6 Convolution filters. This is a computer zip file that gets loaded onto the ROON server to act as an software equalizer before my digital data hits the DAC. The goal is to create a sound curve that is optimized for my room and sitting position. I have a big speaker in a small room and I sit slightly to the left side of the sweet spot. Mitch created a filter using the Audiolense software (he also works with Accurate, but not in my case). The first filter he sent me was jaw dropingly great. I was floored how perfect the sound was. I am listening to a bunch of different music to come up with ideas for the other 5 filters, but really having a tough time figuring out what needs improvement. I suggested another filter with a bit more bass. He also suggested something that fits the Harman target curve. We will figure some new ones on Monday. I am currently listening to Santana’s Woodstock recording. I listened to it at a dealer on Wednesday. It was on a $32K Paradigm Persona 9H speaker + Mark Levinson gear. The bass was way more powerful (and incredible) than what I have with the CS3.7. However, there is no contest on the COAX vs the Be drivers on the 9H. I think the 9H was not setup well in the room, because I have heard the 3F and 5F sound better than this 9H demo, but nevertheless I love what I am hearing today with the CS3.7. This office system I have is now perfect. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7605 |
prof - I've settled on VTL tube amps versus any solid state amp I've had on the 3.5's, for the very reasons you cite. I had an ARC D90 when I first bought the 3.5's and liked it very much, except it's soundstaging was nowhere. I tried CJ solid state, and liked it .... had some "rounding" similar to tubes, but sounded "hollow" compared to the tubes. The only transistor amp I've had driving the Thiels that sounded good was the old Amber Series 70 amplifier. I agree with you, ultimate detail does not win over ultimate musicality in my book. |
@tomthiel, Jim’s idea of costs coming down with production would seem to make sense. Amortization sets in at some point, no? I only referenced the combinations that I did as a refence to what Jim was using. Other than for small receiver/ shelf mount little systems. Packaged setups weren’t the norm at the NYC dealers. Although Lyric used to demo Maggies with Audio Research often, and Levinson might be hooked up from time to time. But not so much at Innovative, where the set up was more often what ever the last customer requested. When one walked in you never knew what speakers were in what rooms or connected to what gear on any given day. Adcom was getting a lot of attention back then, so it wasn’t uncommon to see that set up. But Krell, Spectral, c-j, P.S. Audio, etc. would very often be hooked up too. I got to know the owner of Innovative in another environment/relationship and he claimed that the CS 3.5’s were amongst his all time favorite products. First and foremost because he sold a boatload of them, and secondly because they so easily demonstrated the virtues of moving up to better gear. More sales to a steady, returning clientele. Innovative were big Linn dealers, and Linn was all about the upgrade path. Of course this was all before personal PC’s, the internet, and HT was just emerging. People seemed to spend a lot more of their discretionary income on hi fi in those days. |
jafant The Premier 12s don’t have easily user accessible 2,4,8 Ohm taps, but they are available in the design so a local dealer can apparently switch them to whatever tap you want. They come configured for 4 Ohm taps, which makes sense because, per JA’s measurements, they seem to be essentially designed for 4 Ohm output, generating most power/least distortion at 4 Ohm. That’s no doubt why they seem to have worked so well with all sorts of lower sensitivity/harder to drive speakers I’ve owned including the Thiels. The CJs don't seem to "need" a high sensitivity or higher/even impedance load to work great. Since my Joseph speakers are closer to 8 Ohms I did some research in to whether it made sense to have the CJs configured for 8 Ohm output.But research yielded information suggesting that it’s actually generally best to go with a 4 Ohm output if you can (and not just with the CJ tube amps). Even for tube amps that increase power output at 8 Ohms, or speakers that are 8 Ohms, apparently a 4 Ohm output will tend to yield the best accuracy and bass control. So for some amp/speaker pairings you may loose a tiny bit of power headroom, for slightly better sound out of 4 Ohm taps (and since it will likely be a mostly inconsequential amount, the overall better sound from the 4 Ohm can be the better choice). Again, since the CJ outputs the most power/accuracy at 4 Ohm, I leave it there and it works great with my Joseph speakers too. |
As an FYI. Here is a link to the technical details of what I described in my past post on this thread. The author of this article is the person who did my DRC work. He is a big fan of Thiel's and used to own the CS3.7. https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/what-is-accurate-sound-r923/ |
@prof Love your description of 3D imaging / soundstage. Well put. @yyzsantabarbara Congrats at getting through your rebuild. A lot of work while learning new stuff along the way. Not a bad way to pass time during a pandemic. Been doing a lighter weight thing with my 3.5 mid drivers. 13m > 10f 3.5 mid follow up: They do seem to be breaking in and evening out in a good way. No new measurements taken - just subjective impressions. I am back to listening to complete songs and enjoying the music. I will try refoaming my bad 13m and at some point put the originals back in. For now I will keep enjoying the 10f's and see how they (and my ears) evolve. |
I think it’s by far a better mid hopefully I can learn some crossover stuff (just bought a few books) and learn how to bring it down a little bit so it’s more even in loudness with the rest of the drivers. Obviously consulting with thiel while I’m doing it. Anyways time for a new laptop cause my current one can’t handle the software that I’m trying to get that thiel told me about. |
Hi all, been around for awhile, new to this discussion. This is just my 2 cents, and here is some background. I worked for 12+ yrs part time in the audio business, bread and butter stuff, good audio, real good stuff to select customers, we also did a small line of in-house speakers that I designed and manufactured for a few years, and we sold all I made, custom car audio, competition car audio which I did almost all the sales and all of the design and installation. We also did commercial sales and installation. Yes I worked lots of hours........ Ok on to my setup Thiel CS3.6 that I purchased on my birthday 8 yrs ago after waiting 20 yrs for a pair. Even back in the day when I worked in the business, I could not afford them, rasing kids and paying for a house, but a real good pair popped up just before my birthday and my wife and decided to go have a listen, and bring my amp at the time along for the demo. She agreed the price was quite good, the distance not to bad (120 miles away for all the US people) so we should hear them, she knew I always wanted a pair, and she has been my second set of ears since I have been around audio. Needless to say they came home with us. The demo was ok, not earth shattering, but I knew the good was there, just needed to be brought forward with gear tweaking. So my system has been through several changes, many different amps, pre amps and cabling. Later I make mention of a manufacture visit, he wasn't the only one I have had visit. Another manufacturer from here in Ottawa reached out to me, as he had heard I had a pair of Thiel CS3.6 (their reputation preceded them) and he asked if I would be kind enough to allow him to bring over a pair of mono tube amps to see how they faired with the big Thiels His pair of mono amps (18 watts) are priced at $12K USD, or close to $15K in todays Canadian dollars. Not enough power for daily use, sounded pretty good and he was happy with the outcome, his amps lived to tell the tale. Where I am now is: Thiel CS3.6 in Amberwood, all original as far as I am aware, on homemade spikes that I fabbed up, no feet or spikes came with them when I purchased. Yorkville Audio Pro AP1200 Power Amp, yes a pro amp DESIGNED and BUILT not far from me in Yorkville Ontario Canada. Over a kilowatt of power, and a REAL 60 amps of current. 2 ohm burst power at 1kh both channels drive is 1325 watts per channel, 100kz burst power is 1025 watts and 625 continuous into 2 ohms. The amp comes setup to drive 2 ohm loads fro the factory and has to be configured internally to drive 8 ohm loads. Yorkville says right in the manual they will drive a dead short, but please don't do it, its hard on the outputs. Toroidal transformer is almost 9" in diameter and the thickness of the case and it makes up most of the amps 33lb weight Adequate power to drive the hungry CS's They are bridgeable if I really what to have serious power, 1300 watts continuous, burst at 100kz 4 ohm mono is 2 kilowatts!! Not spec'd into 2 ohm mono, but Yorkville says it will do it no problem, as I am not driving it hard at all, it would be "just fine" they say. 90db listening levels at 8 ft in my room just lights the activity lights on the amp, so I am pretty sure I don't "need "the 2 kilowatts These amps are designed to be dragged down the road by the cord, racked, and then drive 18" pro audio sub bins all night at clipping or just under, so they will live forever in a home environment. I have been through a number of amps, some good, some not so good, some other Canadian amps, Audio Design amps actually and Howard Brown who was the driving force behind them back in the day is still very active on a well know Canadian audio forum, and I have had several conversations with him, a spectacular human being, Kudos Howard! The best I actually heard on the CS's was a short demo with a Moon W5, just sublime as far as I am concerned, but out of reach money wise, and I wasn't buying the amp, it was a favour to a person buying some cables from me. The AP is close, at 1/10 the cost, law of diminishing returns at play, me thinks so...... Stock AC cord is used, as it is captive. Dolan PM-1 Pre amp Very well designed and built like a tank Canadian pre amp built right here in Ottawa back in the day. Well reviewed and sought after. Amazing phono stage. I have been blessed with having Richard Dolan ( the man responsible for the PM-1) over to the house to hear my setup and have some real interesting discussion about the design and manufacture of his pre amp, from early design, testing and listening sessions to settle on which part gets used where, some real interesting stuff. A great opportunity to host a person who actually made one of the pieces in your system, does't happen often, not to me anyway. And if I remember correctly Richard met Jim a couple times at shows. The Dolan story is kinda sad in some ways, I think Richard should write a book, just my opinion, and Richard is another great human being, it was pleasure to spend time with him A spectacular pre amp, that contains 3200 parts assembled in the correct order! Stock AC cord is used, as it is captive. Digital Audio is done by an Asus HTPC in a audio component looking case, Intel i5 2.8 ghz 32GB ram and oversize CPU fan that runs very slow, for low noise, less that 30db at normal speed, 47db max, so I have never heard it actually except when I built the system and booted it with cover off, very quiet. SSD 500gb OS drive Win 10 and an 8TB storage drive that contains all my media (this is my media server for my whole house) and an Asus Xonar Essence STX dedicated sound card (Dual Burr-Brown 24 bit DAC's) that I use to feed the Dolan PM-1. Foobar is my media front end of choice, along with app on my Android phone takes care of all my hard digital media as well as any streaming service I prefer. I have some HiRez stuff and some not so high rez, but all ripped in lossless if at all possible. I use a Tara Labs Prism AC power cable to the HTPC, and I purchased the best 650 watt power supply that I could when I built the HTPC, the Zonar is also powered from the power supply via Molex connector, not from the PCI-e bus. Systemdek iiX turntable with Profile arm and a Shure M95HE cartridge for my LP collection. The Dolan has a spectacular phono stage in it, one reason they are sought after, is that vey reason, and Richard telling me about that was a small book on its own, lets just say that was was the most time spent on the pre. Cabling and speaker cable is all Tara Labs RSC Reference Gen 2 that I have owned since being in the business, best cable as far as I am concerned, I am sure YMMV I also have a couple pieces of Cardas Neutral Reference RCA and they are good, but I like the detail of the Tara, feed the Thiels the best possible signal, don't sugar coat it. So I love my CS3.6, I will alway have them, as far as I am concerned, my last pair of speakers, I may pick up something else interesting, but the 3.6's stay. They do everything I need them to do, and they play all the music I listen too, and that range is pretty wide and they play as quiet or as loud as I need, and at low volume they DO NOT lose the dynamics, and thats quite a trick to pull off. I know some say they are "hard" "bright" "brittle" and I feel for those people that haven't heard them driven correctly, but peoples tastes vary, some people like a coloured speaker, I don't. Ok, I have babbled enough. I just need to say thanks to the group, and mostly to Jim for leaving us a suburb product for all of us to enjoy. Thanks again Jim where ever you are! |
service_guy Welcome! Good to see you here. We have a few 3.6 fans and owners on the Panel. Take your time and read through this thread for a plethora of Thiel information. You have a nice system. Good to learn that Tara Labs is a sonic match as well. What are your fave musical genres? Happy Listening! |
Well thanks for the welcome Jafant! I listen too, but not limited too: Telarc discs Chesky discs All the "approved demo material from the late 1980's thru the 90's" Bach Pat Coil Jennifer Warnes Dave Matthews Band Lorde (very well recorded) Rebecca Pidgeon Metallica Def Leppard The Eagles Human League Dido Streetheart Ratt Neil Diamond Neil Young July Talk The Killers Kings of Leon and so on............. Channel 28 The Spectrum on Sirus XM or Classic Rewind and Classic Vinyl for casual listening Most all music that is well recorded, but I draw the line at dance, country ( George Jones and Johnny Cash maybe) and most rap. I do listen to some Eminem. And I am happy to say the 3.6's do not disappoint in anyway. My wife is also VERY pleased with them, she has very good hearing and if something isn't right I hear about it and need to make changes to correct it! The lack of colour and the complete lack of any sibilance ( unless intended by the recording) is what she enjoys most, She has been to shows with me, heard very expensive setups, and has not liked them. She really likes the current setup so far the best, Dave |
Hi all. So if anyone is interested in hearing how well an Audio Pro AP1200 works with the big Thiel's, one is for sale on Canadian audio site for $150 Yes $150 Canadian dollars, no joke in real nice condition, way nicer condition than mine, cosmetically that is. Mods if this is not allowed, please remove. David |
@yyzsantabarbara, a little while ago you posted: If you wait a few more months the Purifi modules with 1000 watts into 2 Ohm should be released by Bruno et al. The goal of these Class D amps is to remove a 0 from the price of amps. It should be a great match with the 3.7.Could you give us a link or more information on this? Manufacturer, where to purchase, that sort of thing. I’d be interested in following this myself. I’m in no hurry to replace my excellent ABH2, but there’s something intriguing about 1000 watts into 2 ohms. Thanks! |
@tmsrdg https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/did-you-audition-nc500-vs-nc500mp-or-nc50... I just got my 3rd Convolution filter from AcousticSound.ca. I now have found the perfect frequency curve for my speakers and room. I lose 10 dB of gain by running the Convolution filter in ROON but my preamp (HPA4) has a 10 dB boost feature. ROON also has PROCEDURAL EQ which allows you to reclaim that lost gain. I decided to use my premps boost instead (I could use both). Remember, my posts about the AHB2 not hitting hard enough. Well with the drivers and the wiring fixed. With the gain boosted and mainly with the Convolution filter. Things are really rocking. A big speaker in a small room sounding like it is now is incredible. No fatigue at all. I also spoke with Benchmark technical support because my preamp had a glitch on the boost adjustment (we fixed with a factory reset of the GUI). They also said that 2 mono AHB2 can put out 700 watt at 2 Ohm. They cannot publish this because the amps cannot run like that for extended time. They also said the mono amp is stable to 1 Ohm. It also has the forward correction to stop clipping to get to the speakers. Just an FYI. Wow, just so happy with what I am hearing today. The CS3.7 has never sounded this good in any dealer demo I went to with much more expensive gear. |
@tmsrdg I know you had a single AHB2 and are also a musician. I was thinking why does my system sound bad and yours so good with a single AHB2. There were hardware issues for sure but the room was still a big impediment for me. Here is a link to a post I made that digs deep into what I did. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/room-correction-roon-rew-room-eq-wizard/post?postid=2064340#2... Here is a another post I made that has a bit more info. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/speakers-good-for-close-to-wall-placement/post?postid=2065116... The ComputerAudiophile.com site is were this advanced DSP stuff gets chewed around more than here on A’gon. All I have to say is this Convolution engine in ROON is brilliant stuff. Just transformed my system. If you want to see some graphs send me PM and we can do that by email. Don’t tell anyone since email is not allowed. |
@tmsrdg Oops, forgot to answer the question about the boost adjustment. My HPA4 had the boost disabled on XLR1. XLR2, RCA3, and RCA4 all worked. I worked it out with Benchmark tech support. We ended up doing the FACTORY RESET on the GUI. I lost some settings but not big deal to manually restore them. I think I may have seen this before. It was important to get the 10 dB boost today because the Convolution adjustment took away 11 dB. I learned a about ROON DSP settings the past few days. There is boost in the ROON settings too but as of now I have disabled that. |
@
yyzsantabarbara
, Thanks for the responses and all the links. My Aurender N10 server is incompatible with Roon, so I can't consider the Convolution app.If there's one thing I'd like more of in my system, it's low frequency "weight." It's pretty easy to tell when listening to say, solo piano music, where the low end drops off a bit. The listening room is adjacent to another equally sized room separated by sliding glass doors (open midcentury modern floor plan). My wife's Steinway is literally only 8 feet to the right of the right speaker on the other side of the doors. She can play the same passage that we've just heard from a recording as a reference. Everything tracks exceedingly well, but, yes, lower octaves don't have that same impact. I have seen the future, and it involves subwoofers. |
@tmsrdg A shame you cannot use ROON (or JRiver). The Convolution file optimization is incredible. It fixes the room which I think is always the biggest hurdle to great sound at home. For me this a likely a bigger hurdle than most, because of the big speaker in a small room. I had 3 filters made for me. The first was very good but needed a bit more bass presence. So I received a 2nd file that had a slight boost from 100 Hz down. That gave me a slight irritation in the ear. So we made a 3rd file that was half the bass adjustment between 1 and 2. This was the goldilocks filter, It was just right. This showed me it was not the amp that was deficient it was the room. Today, I just found some extra money to buy some audio gear but I now have no need for anything. I was thinking of the Halo Audio May Level 3 DAC that people are raving about but I have 0 desire to change what I am hearing. This Benchmark stack is amazing. I currently streaming some 70’s BeeGees, with their huge bass lines, it sounds so good without fatigue. |
@
solobone22 which specific piano recordings? I want to listen to what you are referencing. Sure -- just off the top, Scarlatti 30 Sonatas, John Browning piano, Nimbus, 16/44; Brahms 7 Fantasies,etc, Emanuel Ax piano, Sony,16/44 , also Mari Asakawa's excellent new recording of Elliott Carter pieces, Centaur, 24/96. That's a good beginning cross section of venues, recording technique, piano touch and tonal balance. The Scarlatti doesn't have those lowest notes but is good for mid and upper mid. |
All, New to the board. Great informative reading. I learn a lot about matching and challenges one doesn’t always think of when getting new equipment. I am currently running Magnipan 3.7 and Thiel CS2 (depending on my mood, love them both) from ole school Classe DR-15 amp/DR4 pre. Very very happy overall with the sound on both but considering what going to a Pass Labs 250.8 might bring. Or maybe an upgrade to preamp? (Also have Rega P8/Alpheta3/Rega Aria mk3/California Audio Labs CD). I know the Classe stuff is dinosaur so maybe not much experience here with that but it has served me remarkably well. any thoughts would be appreciated.....Thanks. |
Yeah those 250.8 are not cheap even used. I have been trying to score the 3.6 or maybe 3.7 so definitely aligned with you on that. Funny but just started researching DAC’s this morning and also streaming maybe Roon or Innuous. I have a fairly substantial collection of CD’s and vinyl but Tidal is pretty sweet, currently streaming from an Astell and Kern AK120 II portable. For the price of the 250.8 could likely almost do all....appreciated. also on the piano part of this thread Rachmaninov Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini Vladimir Ashkenazy London Decca |
JM - I'll chip in with a personal anecdote. When the Classe DR6 /DR9 setup was new, Thiel used it in demos with a pair of bridged DR9s. I still have and use those amps. The Classe replaced Threshold 800s. Thiel outgrew the Classe sonically and went to Mark Levinson and then Krell, with Bryston in the mix for our lower cost products. Although we didn't use Pass officially, Jim and Nelson held mutual respect and Nelson used some Thiels as development test loads. I have not heard the 250.8, but would expect it to considerably outclass the Classe. All that said, I am still amazed by how much more improvement can be attained by solving room issues. In fact, many or most of my niggles with amps, cables and recordings have evaporated after running down and fixing room issues with FuzzMeasure and trial and error. |
thanks for the historical info. Great stuff to hear..no pun intended ha I don’t have much too trouble with my CS2’s in my 13x22 room, they are along the long wall about 8’ apart and my listening position about at the equilateral triangle point. Room is well deadened with panels and the CS2’s throw a remarkable very wide and accurate stage. I am struggling a bit more with the Magi 3.7’s, as I think they want even more space...still working on that although they sound very good especially those sweet mid and highs...well what highs my slightly older ears can hear of the highs anyway... I still think the Thiel’s may have an edge with the right recordings and, quite likely, as a result of the placement challenges you mention but it is close. I am a bit concerned if I go to the 3.6’s they may suffer due to the room situation so also considering one of the later 2 series as I think I will always have to have a pair of Thiel’s available for me...ha...good listening |
