The "Very Best Record Cleaning Formulation"

@rich121 ​ this Thursday I pick up my new Klaudio US machine.
​​​​​​

I thought the Klaudio machine was no longer sold? Are they back on the market? If so how much?

@rsf507 
They have been back for about a year.
They stopped selling because sales didn’t match their cost, but Chad of Acoustic Sounds talked them into starting again and he paid up front for the first batch of machines. Chad now is the sole sales for everywhere except China and Korea.

They re-designed/upgraded the KL-CLN-200 to the ’T’ model... it now has an exterior tank/pump system, direct drive motor and other upgrades.
$6,500.00 USD
https://klaudio.com/kd-cln-lp200t-lp-vinyl-record-ultrasonic-cleaner-dryer

@rich121 

Let me get this straight. You go through all this trouble making ultrapure water only to contaminate it with dirty records over and over again. Then, you use an evaporative drying technique that redeposits all that stuff that was not in the ultrapure water to begin with, back on the record. Yes, there is some contaminate in store bought distilled water and a good record cleaning machine with vacuum drying will suck it all off. 

The fact is, bottled distilled water will do the job just as well at a lower price assuming you clean your records correctly. Vacuum drying was instituted, I believe by Keith Monks for a very good reason. It works, no data needed. You can see it work. Now there is junk on the record, now there is not. How do you know an Ultrasonic cleaner is working on a record. Because some soap salesman says it does? The KLaudio unit in particular is a Rube Goldberg device bettered only by the Kirmuss Restoration Method. Let's break out the Cubans and scrub records. 

@lewm 

I do not believe osmolality describes particulate matter or any substance not in solution. 

I cleaned 5 Analog Productions album with brake cleaning fluid. They are the shiniest records you've ever seen and they sound fantastic. Even the labels survived it. Just point the can and spray away. Please keep your nose upwind and wear gloves, those thick rubber ones with the long cuffs.  

Mijo, I wrote that deionized water is commonly evaluated for the degree of deionization by measuring its osmalility. Note the root word, “ion”. Ions are in solution by definition. So what has this got to do with particles, which are not in solution? My question to Wizzzard is whether he really meant to say deionized water is per se to be avoided. I think he meant to say that distillation is critical whereas deionization is optional but not verboten. We shall see.

@wizzzard 

i was probably missing some context.  Sorry about that.  

There have had recent discussions comparing the AudioGon forum to others.  Your deep dive into record cleaning solution is certainly a great example of resources and information for the benefit of audiophiles on this forum.

Well done.

@lewm 

With regard to your most recent post 12 June 2023 at 8:28 PM.  Sorry I did not get to your earlier post that I had read, but I just logged on to submit my answers to @mijostyn  and others and noticed the above post, and thought to respond immediately rather than later.

You are correct in mentioning that I diid not intend to mean that deionized MUST be avoided.  I am highly recommending distilled water over deionized water.  On the other hand you can assume correctly that all the other alternatives such as rain and tap water, etc MUST be avoided.  As I interpreted you previous post, and I hope I got this correct.  Is that you did not have the same confidence level in your distilled water supplier, but, felt more comfortable in your deionized water supplier.

If you have a higher level of confidence in the deionized water to you, then by all means choose the deionized water source.  Your confidence in what you are doing may not have a tangible value, but it is important, and continue to "follow your gut" in this matter.  In the interim seek out a distilled water supplier that you can be confident in using.

I hope this clarifies my position to you and others.

@mijostyn
Comprehension? Also, making assumptions will cause you to be wrong.... along with your other non-thoughtful comments.

"You go through all this trouble making ultrapure water only to contaminate it with dirty records over and over again. Then, you use an evaporative drying technique that redeposits all that stuff that was not in the ultrapure water to begin with, back on the record. Yes, there is some contaminate in store bought distilled water and a good record cleaning machine with vacuum drying will suck it all off".

At no point in my post did I say I used UltraPure water.
I stated:
"I tired of buying distilled water from the store to make record cleaning fluid for my Keith Monks RCM, so I made an investment in a 7-stage RO/DI system"

To make UltraPure water, it would take another piece of equipment, called a polisher, that costs about 20 times what I paid for my RO/DI system (less than $350). This system also supplies drinking water, as it has a tap between the RO and DI part of the system to be used for drinking water.
This is actually cheaper than purchasing distilled water and filtered drinking water, it I am not driving anywhere to purchase distilled water/drinking water.
As I stated... I use a Keith Monks RCM (dual platter Gemini series) and have been for well over 30 years.

A few years ago I upgraded/modified my Keith Monks. I replaced all electric motors. including the Thread drive and arm drive, with heavy duty Industrial ’Hurst’ custom motors, I replaced the vacuum pump with a new, more powerful KNF vacuum pump, I modified the platter speed from 100rpm down to 55rpm had new pulleys machined for both the thread spooling pulley and arm pulley (lower speed 50%) to add 100% more surface cleaning time and reduce the amount of water being ’flung’, added quality vac gauge etc. I would put this up against any RCM, and if I could only have one RCM, this would be it.... but, it still has its limitations.
That is where ultrasonic comes in... it makes a wonderful accessory to a physical RCM.

I have spent MANY years experimenting and cleaning records. Like many here, I have been collecting for over 50 years, have a collection exceeding 25K and have had many cleaning devices.

I also stated that I "added" the Degritter (twice, as first failed, which is not uncommon with that machine) and now I am "adding" the Klaudio.
At what point did you comprehend that I "air dry" my records? I never stated my cleaning regime, but you rather assume.
For someone who never even cleaned their records before, and now being an ’expert’ on the evils of air drying... amazing. So, was it the (recent?) purchase of your Clearaudio Matrix Pro RCM what made you the expert?
I am very curious of your experience and knowledge of both the Degritter and Klaudio machines? How long have you used either?
Your comments show your lack of knowledge of these devices and your obvious, admitted lack of experience, as you you only recently started to clean your records.

@mijostyn   

       @drkingfish  @recklesskelly   @whart ​​@lewm 

I initially thought it would be best to resolve the selection of ethanol and the specific concentration of 22.000% before discussing other matters.  And, I thought the best and easiest way was to prepare a very accurate and detailed graphs demonstrating the transition points.  One being extremely significant and the others less so important.

And, that is exactly what I had done, however, I am unable to post this graph or a pdf.  I contacted the Administrator on how to proceed, however, I have not as yet received a response.  So, I am going to ask you to prepare your own graphs on either graph paper, or quadrille paper, or a simple sheet of 8.5 x 11 paper.  I will provide you with only the 4 key points and describe how to prepare the graph to see the significant slopes related to the 22.000% value.

If you choose the 11 inch vertical side as you y-axis representing the Surface Tension at 20 degrees C and expressed as dynes per centimeter into 75 segments, and then select the horizontal 8.5 inch bottom to represent the x-axis indicating the percentage of Ethanol from 0% to 95.6% at 20 degrees C in parts by weight into 100 segments, we can begin.

At 0.00% Ethanol on the x-axis, the corresponding Surface Tension is:  72.72 dynes per centimeter on the y-axis.

At 22.00% Ethanol on the x-axis, the corresponding Surface Tension is:  30.28 dynes per centimeter on the y-axis.

At 41.50% Ethanol on the x-axis, the corresponding Surface Tension is:  27.59 dynes per centimeter on the y-axis.

At 95.60% Ethanol on the x-axis, the corresponding Surface Tension is:  26.63 dynes per centimeter on the y-axis.

(I will explain the reason why the values are to two decimal places rather than my original three decimal formulation a bit later).

You can immediately see the very steep slope between 0.00% Ethanol concentration and the 22.00% concentration.  At 41.50% Ethanol you notice a slight decline, and, at 95.60% the additional decline is even less significant.  Many people, would have considered only one   inflection point, but, I choose not to deviate from established mathematical guidelines.

From 0.00% Ethanol to 22.00% represents a drop in Surface Tension of a phenomenal 42.44 dynes per centimeter.

Going to than 41.50% represents a rather meaningless drop of only an additional 2.70 dynes per centimeter.  And going the max of 95.60% represents a drop of only 0.93 dynes per centimeter.

Now, I hope EVERYONE on the Planet understands the selection and significance of 22.000%

This data is available from many reference sources such as "The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics", "Lange’s Chemical Handbook", etc.  However, I choose the most comprehensive study of alcohols and water starting at 20 degrees C to 50 degrees C, at 5 degree. C intervals, and the Surface  Tension done at 20 C.  The slopes of the 25 C graph are identical only the values are different.  They presented their representations in two decimal places, and, that is why I conformed to their numbers.  Other resources clearly  establish 22.000% , that is why in is in the formulation.

I do not take any credit for any of the values stated.  The credit need to be given to Dr. Gonzalo Vazquez, Dr. Estrella Alvarez and Jose M. Navaza that was recorded in "The Journal of Chemical Engineering".  All products were supplied by Merck Laboratories and all solutions were prepared to 4 decimal places on identical Sartorius Analytical Balances, but the results were chosen to be represented to only 2 decimal places.

Now @mijostyn we have established your reasoning for your selection of BAK.  Thank you for making that clear, and, in your case, it is TRULY a VERY SIGNIFICANT matter, and one that can not be ignored.  You asked if the BAK is detrimental in any way.  The only detrimental effect is the resultant residue, but more significantly, your level of 7.600% parts by weight is "off the charts" so to speak, which now leads to a more significant level of residue resultant.

But most importantly you need something that will not only will kill the mildew and mold, but also something that will prevent it from further happening.

I have the PERFECT solution for you, and, it is something with which you are very familiar.  The additive is:  2-phenoxyethanol.   It is a hand antiseptic for surgeries, and is in some hand antiseptics, and, is used as a preservative in IV medications and vaccines.

A 1.00% addition is over kill.  A 0.500% represents a 87.5% potency of a 1.00% addition.  (It is non-linear).  Therefore if you were to use 0.500% of 2-phenoxyethanol, it would be much less than the 7.600% BAK you were using.  But you would have NO residue, and the effectiveness is even difficult to compare because the 2-phenoxyethanol is so much more effective.

"I wold like to continue but my "medical demon" is summoning me."  The rest  will have to wait until Wednesday.

In the interim, find out how easy it is for you to obtain the 2-phenoxyethanol.  It is commonly used in labs as well, my wife has some here at home, but. Its’ best before date has long passed.  It is still good and effective but not to the same degree.  Good Luck!  Till later…

@rich121 

What is RO/DI water?

And, a problem exists?  I was not talking down to @lewm  

How did you ever get that impression?  I was agreeing with him and encouraging him to be confident in his suppliers.  And, that confidence is important.  (I sometimes question myself as to why I respond to such posts.)

I do not NEED to PROVE that distilled water is better than deionized.  And I do not NEED to PROVE that double distilled water is better than distilled water.  I have not voiced ANY OPINIONS.  I only present facts and well established data.

I posted this forum to present "The Very Best Record Cleaning Formulation", and any other technicnical areas if requested.  Ant to answer questions about my formulation, and not what other people say to each other.  Please discuss that amoung yourselves, and, perhaps discuss it at a better and more appropriate location.

Good Evening!

 Figure 39 – Water + Alcohol Surface Tensions of at 25°C from PACVR
(adapted with permission copyright 1995, American Chemical Society)

 Data for Figure 39 is from “Surface Tension of Alcohol + Water from 20 to 50°C”, Gonzalo Vazquez, Estrella Alvarez, Jose M. Navaza, Journal of Chemical and Engineering Data. 1 May 1995.    

@wizzzard
RO/DI water is Reverse Osmosis/De-iodized water... which is what I use. I use a 7-Stage system that gives me a zero ppm reading on my TDS meter..
RO/DI is the process used to get water in the purest form, Ultrapure, ASTM Type 1 regeant grade, which impurities are measured in parts per trillion.

@rich121- are you the gent who had the older Monks double and we talked about sourcing parts? If so, I’m glad you got it fettled.

One the issues that came up on the SH Forums when Neil’s first edition was published was that distilled water was not commonly available in the UK and perhaps other countries.

When I visited the Culpeper facility, I asked them about water purity:

Q: You also suggest using “deionized water”- what properties does this have over “distilled” water of the type you buy in the grocery store?

A: I can’t speak to the quality of grocery store distilled water. In general, distilling removes organic and inorganic impurities from water. In deionization, the emphasis is more upon removing minerals. Deionization tends to be less expensive than distillation. For the purposes of cleaning records, there is less need for the purity of distilled water because the primary concern is to not leave any mineral residue on a disc, which can happen with tap water.

Quote from Hart interview with Larry Miller, Recorded Sound Preservation Specialist at the LOC’s Packard Campus, in Cleaning and Archival Standards of Care, TheVinylPress, Feb. 2015.

My suspicion is that the LOC was doing its own water purification given the volume of material they process.

Millipore, who makes all the fancy equipment for labs to purify water, has a great chart that explains the differences among different grades of water: https://www.emdmillipore.com/US/en/water-purification/learning-centers/tutorial/purification-techniques/M42b.qB.QHEAAAFAVVZkiQz9,nav

Neil’s book goes into this in some depth as well because he encountered questions (over a thousand as I recall) on various fora about issues including sources of water for rinsing.

Bill Hart

@whart
Hell Bill... yes that was me. I decided to use better custom parts to upgrade/modify the Keith Monks and glad I did, as it is a much better machine now.
We also had a conversation here on this site a few years ago, as I was having trouble getting in touch with Elina, of Lamm Industries.

I have had both the last 2 editions of Neils book are on my computer... have been a long time fan.
This is the 7-Stage system I have:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/7-stage-pro-75-gpd-ro-di-system-bulk-reef-supply-bundle.html

I feel like I am at the wine tasting of a local winery. I live in New Hampshire.

@rich121 

I hate being diminutive. If I hold up a tennis ball and let go, which way is it going to go? The chemistry of a record cleaning solution is at least a subject that holds some challenge for a simple minded person like myself. 

Ultrasound machines are a wonderful canvas for painting pictures of record cleaning nirvana. Let me get my smoking jacket and a Cuban. 

Wizzzard, sorry to say you did misunderstand me, not that it’s any obligation of yours to deal with every idea here. What I am trying to ask is whether there’s any problem with deionized water, if and only if it’s also distilled. I get that you’re strongly advising distilled water. I don’t have any “supplier”. I am a retired MD and molecular biologist, and I have many liters of distilled and deionized water from my lab at my former workplace. Every lab at NIH has its own source for distilled and deionized water. I’ve never had to buy water for record cleaning.

Distilled water with Tergikleen in my Vevor 6L digital then a vacuum With a good distilled water rinse and another vac. Works amazing!!

@lewm 

Perhaps fewer words spoken/written is best!

"I, S.N.W. (Wizzzard), have no problems or issues with deionized water"

@mijostyn 

"Brilliant!" response.

Thank you.

Dear Wizzzard, of course osmolality does not describe the level of “particles”, and I never said it did. I did say that osmolality is used as a measure of the degree of deionization of water. Then Mijostyn conflated ions with particles, and I corrected him. In our labs (collectively) osmolality was automatically monitored by measuring electrical conductivity of water passing the outlet of the deionizer, on the premise that the lower the conductivity, the lower is the concentration of metal ions.  As you might imagine, deionization of the water used in in vitro reactions is more important for biological experimentation than it is for record cleaning.

I don't apologize for asking about deionization, because in your earliest presentations you said more than once that only distilled, not deionized, water should be used, or words to that effect.  This left the impression that there is something wrong with deionized water, when you really only meant to say that the water must be distilled, whether deionized or not.  You make a point of your own precision, yet in that regard your original directive was not precise.  I do thank you for the clarification.

@mijostyn 

Off for my MRI now.  I will continue to answer you, most likely on Wednesday, late in the day.  And, address others as well, but you remain my top priority.

Yours truly,

My local car wash uses the R/O, D/I process and man my truck and BMW come out shining. Being a smart ass I know.  Did find a couple of viable deionizing units for home use. Personally @ $1.29 a gallon and I only have 1000 LP's I will just run to the Kroger. 

https://www.uswatersystems.com/deionized-water-vs-distilled-water

https://www.griotsgarage.com/portable-water-deionizer/?sku=37201A&gclid=CjwKCAjwp6CkBhB_EiwAlQVyxY4fe4xgeHvXycJPveATRS_CkN36DqZaHb0NQK-FCelo3bvQ0wB7fBoCI1wQAvD_BwE

RO/DI water is Reverse Osmosis/De-iodized water... which is what I use. I use a 7-Stage system that gives me a zero ppm reading on my TDS meter..
RO/DI is the process used to get water in the purest form, Ultrapure, ASTM Type 1 reagent grade, which impurities are measured in parts per trillion.

There's an awful lot of 'post removed' going on in this thread. I must have missed all the good/bad bits.

It is true that vacuum drying is better than air drying as evaporation is going to leave the suspended dirt on the record. Even so, assuming the dirt on the uncleaned record is suspended in a large volume of solution, and only some of that has to evaporate, there will be far less on the record after the cleaning and drying.

I'm aware that the best I can do with my machines would be to clean and dry on the Loricraft, then clean and dry in the Degritter, then finish with a distilled water rinse and dry in the Loricraft. The only problem with that is that I'd rather listen to music than clean records, and the first two steps without the third is good enough for what is left of my remaining ear.

@recklesskelly
I enjoy filtered RO/DI water for my cleaning needs AND all the filtered RO drinking water I need on tap, at home... no need to go anywhere... for pennies a gallon.

@rich121 good for you! 

dogberry

... the best I can do with my machines would be to clean and dry on the Loricraft, then clean and dry in the Degritter, then finish with a distilled water rinse and dry in the Loricraft. The only problem with that is that I'd rather listen to music than clean records ...

I feel the same and that's why I like the Klaudio cleaner so much. Just press one button and the machine does the rest.

As a means to prevent working at height, there is trend in Cleaning to Pole Clean with a Pressure Jet System using Carbon Fibre Poles  that can reach up to Five Storeys.

This method is commonly seen carried out using distilled water as it is a streak free drying substance..

Because of this there are plenty of cheap offers to be found for distilled water.

I have always trod carefully and purchased a Lab Grade Water, from recollection I believe conforms to PubChem CID 962, i'm also sure PPM were checked out as well. I genuinely have no idea, how my water conforms when being discussed by the likes of @wizzzard  

Distilled is still cheap enough around here (99 cents a gallon)  Works perfectly with my mix! 

Bill

you had a great post until......".I would suggest to Mr. Wizard (unless he insists on being addressed by the honorific "Dr." which I find to be pretentious except when applied to medical doctors), "  Why?? "medical doctors" were cutting your hair, lancing boils and chopping off limbs w/out anesthetic a little over a hundred years ago.  OH yes,  a shave with that?  "Dr" Copernicus was studying the galaxy 500 years before that.

You can have any "pretentious finds" you want but the term :doctor" was used 1000s of years before the AMA.. 

Doctor comes from the Latin word for "teacher" and originally referred to a small group of theologians who had approval from the Church to speak on religious matters. Eventually the term saw greater use referring to qualified academic and medical professionals. While doctor most often refers to a medical doctor, academic doctors can rightfully claim it too. And they have lexical and etymological evidence to back their claim.  In the centuries between then and now, doctor has had many other applications, including referencing a soldering tool, a tropical sea breeze, and a loaded die. It's almost exclusively used of people now, and both qualified academics and medical practitioners may rightfully claim it. (taken from a web dic so as to to be accused of plagiarism)

I am a "dr" by any definition you choose to use but it is not pretentious for use by any persons of any discipline that has earned a "Doctorate of ---- degree

I can assure you that no Doctor of 19th century Polish accordion music will answer the call of the flight attendant calling for a "DR"  on a flight as a person is grabbing their chest and turning blue.

Best to you

Mark

In the past I travelled/commuted with a Very well educated Lady, who had a Cambridge University Education and was at her time as a Student very involved with the Female Rowing Team.

On a commute and in a discussion with another about a medical condition, I invited this Lady to contribute as her Husband was a "Dr".

I was informed the Husband was "Dr" through being a mathematician and not medicine.

As the Journey continued, I probed the mathematics that were being carried out. To which the 'layman' description was given and now my not so accurate a recital of this description, that the area of maths worked with was a Speculative Math that was working with Astronomy.

Further probing revealed the Husband is nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for the discoveries made.

I was the 'Cat that got the Cream' for a few days after that reveal.

I also learnt Professor Brian Cox regularly visits for dinner😎

I’ve been informed, and amused by the chemistry and psychology in this thread. 
tianks to all that have given good information 🤣

@drkingfish- fair. Just a personal thing for me. I recently finished reading a book on the history of surgery and the differences between the doctors (who were educated and held titles) and the barber/surgeons, who were treated as barbarians. Obviously, a lot has changed in the medical field since then (anesthesia, antiseptics, the ability to control blood loss and a better understanding of the human body). I do applaud people who know things well.

I was meeting with a person today at UT (where I teach part-time) and of course, there are a hell of a lot of Ph.ds among other heavily credentialed individuals running around there. I was spending time with a head of department (I don’t want to get too specific here) and asked him about his background. It turned out he had worked in the field, took the job at UT and worked his way up. He didn’t have any advanced degrees. Truth be told I’m thinking about a Phd myself at this point, so I guess I shouldn’t be so snarky about them. At that point, I will demand that folks address me as Herr Doctor, not to be confused with the Hair Doctor.

All taken in good spirit. Thanks, Mark.

Bill

Bill,

I will gladly call you "Herr Dr Bill" when you achieve that PhD

Best

Mark

In Europe, the PhD is generally regarded as superior in academic achievement to the training required of clinical physicians. In the UK and maybe in Germany and elsewhere on the continent, clinicians are addressed as “mister”, and only PhD recipients are addressed as “doctor”.  In the US, some law schools hand out “doctorates” in jurisprudence after only 3 years and with no thesis requirements. This is all much ado about nothing.

Actually, @lewm , in the UK surgical specialists are ’Mister’ in a nod to their barber-surgeon past, but non-surgical physicians are called ’Doctor.’ Now the funny thing is this, they get called doctor only by courtesy, as the three forms of medical qualification there are not doctoral degrees. Most commonly a university awards a bachelor of medicine and a bachelor of surgery degree (M.B.,B.S. in London, M.B.,B.Chir. from Oxford or Cambridge, and M.B.,Ch.B. from anywhere else), or there was the ’Conjoint exam’ from the Royal College of Physicians and Royal College of Surgeons, giving you the qualification LRCP,MRCS, and most anciently and now gone, the qualification from the Society of Apothecaries, LMSSA. Those three are in descending order of worth, the certificates that came with them grew as the degree was easier to achieve!) Having said that, in the UK there is a medical equivalent of a PhD, called an MD, which causes lots of grief for a well-qualified UK physician who turns up here in Canada and discovers everyone has an MD!

OP,

Lead with your ego and the result are inevitable.

Lead with humble helpful thoughts and the results will be totally different.

@ghdprentice 
Words of Wizdom

To all involved parties with sincere interests, I would like to say.

            " It's Alive! "   I felt the need to express the words spoken in "Young Frankenstein" by Gene Wilder from Mel Brooks' version in 1974.  (please do not make any efforts to remind me of earlier versions).  I like Mel Brooks.

Yes, Wizzzard is alive, and as well as can be expected, and he is back.

This forum has seemed to "go down a rabbit hole".  I hope to bring it back inline.  First I will need to apologize to @mijostyn once again and then proceed to get a few matters out of the way.

Again I am here to answer any serious related questions that I am qualified to answer.  Unfortunately, I need to remind all that I have limited "windows of opportunity" to respond to any questions, and, I ask for your understanding with regard to this matter.

I also promise to read every post before pressing the post button to make certain that my computer and / or application, and the use of a Dvorak keyboard does not post weird typos.

@mijostyn 

Please forgive me Mijostyn, but I hope you can wait a litter longer for my response to you.  Your questions and your issues have pressed many buttons, and, as I have stated, I have prepared your response some time ago in handwritten format.  It is long, it is detailed, and it also relates to many other issues that others also have expressed an interest.

But I feel compelled to address the nefarious forces that have overcome my forum, and sort of clean up some other matters in order that it does not get further out of hand. I hope you understand.

And, I thought that I could do this in some orderly manner, however, that will not be the case unfortunately.

Well, I did not get very far.  The "Medical Demons" are demanding my attention much sooner than expected.  I expected at least 2 more hours before they would make their demands upon me.

I guess you all will need to wait, I hope I have time later today.

However, at least, you all are now aware that Wizzzard is alive.

Till Later!  Thank you.

@wizzzard ,

You are an interesting fellow.

@thecarpathian 

I believe your statement was intended as a compliment.  I take it as a compliment.  And I appreciate it as a compliment.  And, I sincerely thank you!

I am back!

Yes, the site went done a "rabbit hole".  It was intended to provide a formulation for the "Very Best Record Cleaner Formulation", and to answer questions about the formulation or any other subject with which I am very knowledgeable and experienced in.

It deviated to discussions about degrees issued at particular universities, and, who is a Doctor and who is not a Doctor.

You probably never thought that I would contribute any answers to those posts.  However, I stated I would respond to questions with with I am very knowledgeable and experienced.  Therefore, I find myself qualified to end this discussion once and forever.

At the time, I recall 27 Colleges at Oxford of the 44 total that offered Degrees to become Practicing Physicians.  It did not matter  if you went to Balliol College, or Christ Church College, or Corpus Christi College, or Saint Peter's College, or any of the other Colleges, the Degrees were the same.

So, if you graduated from an Oxford University College with intent to practice Medicine, and, you were male, your signature would be as follows:

  Mister  Oliver Oxford  M.A., B.M., B.Ch.        The M.A. stands for Master of Arts (not Master of Anatomy, although much Anatomy is obviously studied).  The B.M.  stands for Bachelor of Medicine.  And the B.Ch.  stands for Bachelor of Surgery.  (not Bachelor of Chemistry - the Ch. is in reference to the old Latin terminology).

So, there you have it.  A person graduating from, let us say, Christ Church College at Oxford, is technically not a Doctor.  I chose Christ Church College because it undeniably is the best College for Medicine at Oxford.  You will not find disagreement with that statement.  No PhD. (Oxford does not award PhD's), No DPhil., no M.D.

Now with regard to Schools for Chemistry, I guess I am suppose to say Corpus Christi College is the very best College.  But, I also stated that I would be truthful, so I must admit that Jesus College is the very best College at Oxford for Chemistry.  Many people would say that Jesus College at Oxford University is the very best School in the entire World for Chemistry.  And you would find no disagreement from me about that statement.

Now with regard to Cambridge University, I believe that here in North America that is normally referred to as Pre K.  Do not quote me, I certainly would not want to upset someone who had attended a College at Cambridge University.  I understand that you can receive a Toop-Notch Educashun there.

Yes, I made certain that I read my remarks before posting.  And, this should end this entire subject matter and we can now move on to audio discussions.

@jwillox 

Regarding your post 13 June 2023 at 8:13

I am glad. Thank you.

@dogberry 

Your Post 13 June 2023 at 12:07 PM

I totally agree, however, the administrator must monitor the site, and, it is at his / her discretion what is printed and what is not.  And, we must all need to conform.

Perhaps, the administrator could be a bit more lenient.  I, for one, am satisfied with the monitoring and are adjusting accordingly.

@rich121 

Regarding your post 13 June 2023 at 12:26 PM

Oy Vey!

@eryoung2k 

Regarding your post 13 June 2023 at 10:52 AM

I made myself familiar with the Tergikleen product ( by the way, the "Terg" in Tergikleen most likely comes from the two Tergitols they have chosen to use.  And, yes, I agree in this case, a rinse is necessary.  But, I suggest you rinse with my presented formulation and not just distilled water.  If you have some concerns, perhaps you should just rinse with a 22.000% Ethanol and 78.000% Distilled water and avoid the Tergitol 15-S-7.  You will be more pleased with the results.

@mijostyn 

Your 12 June 2023 at 7:34 AM post only.

In keeping with many of the posts that have been placed on this forum.  I would not be surprised that the "Technical Consensus of Opinion" about your tennis ball when you dropped it would most likely go "Up".  I am certain that there is even an "expert" out there that could even prove that.

Your concept of listening to music, rather than spending your lifetime simply washing records for the remainder of your life is the correct position to follow, however, I am confident that many disagree.  Other than my involvement in this forum, I prefer to listen to music as well!

@whart 

Regarding your post 13 June 2023 at 2:52 AM

AGAIN, more "Technical responses, and expressed in a somewhat definitive manner, from an individual who defined himself as a 'student of intellectual history' before becoming a Lawyer"

Please Note!  I have made no Legal remarks, nor, do I ever intend to.  I am NOT QUALIFIED to make any Legal statements!

@lewm 

Regarding your remark 11 June 2023 at 6:06 PM

You are absolutely correct.  BASF is not known to utilize that secondary alcohol, or if they have something close the moles of Ethylene Oxide are not the same.  And, yes companies have particular bases that they adhere to, however, there are always also exceptions.

I intend to phone an old friend who is retired, but, was the V.P of R&D of BASF in Germany at my earliest opportunity and before he goes on vacation.  He last phoned me just before Christmas.  It is time we caught-up, and I will try and remember to ask him if BASF makes an equivalent to Tergitol 15-S-7. 

I will share the info when I have it, and, if I have it.