The "Very Best Record Cleaning Formulation"

@wizzzard 

Why only store distilled and not D/I water?

@wizzzard
"Deionized water is no where near the purity of distilled and will affect the surface tension as well. as likely also leaving residue behind"

Just so you know... the purest lab grade of water, Type 1 (Ultrapure) is made using RO/DI. The impurities in Ultrapure water are measured in parts per trillion.

Years ago, I tired of buying distilled water from the store to make record cleaning fluid for my Keith Monks RCM, so I made an investment in a 7-stage RO/DI system.
This is as pure of water as needed to make a record cleaning solution. I have fairly uncontaminated tap water to begin (it tests in the mid 70’s ppm with my TDS meter) with and after going thru the system I have never gotten a reading higher than ’0’ and that is measuring in parts per million.

The bottled water in the store has no rating, no history... no information of the amount of impurities, so your comment is not ’fact’, just a generalization.
A few years ago I added a Degritter ultrasonic machine (now on my 2nd) and this Thursday I pick up my new Klaudio US machine.
I can’t imagine getting a cleaner record.

@rsf507 
They have been back for about a year.
They stopped selling because sales didn’t match their cost, but Chad of Acoustic Sounds talked them into starting again and he paid up front for the first batch of machines. Chad now is the sole sales for everywhere except China and Korea.

They re-designed/upgraded the KL-CLN-200 to the ’T’ model... it now has an exterior tank/pump system, direct drive motor and other upgrades.
$6,500.00 USD
https://klaudio.com/kd-cln-lp200t-lp-vinyl-record-ultrasonic-cleaner-dryer

@mijostyn
Comprehension? Also, making assumptions will cause you to be wrong.... along with your other non-thoughtful comments.

"You go through all this trouble making ultrapure water only to contaminate it with dirty records over and over again. Then, you use an evaporative drying technique that redeposits all that stuff that was not in the ultrapure water to begin with, back on the record. Yes, there is some contaminate in store bought distilled water and a good record cleaning machine with vacuum drying will suck it all off".

At no point in my post did I say I used UltraPure water.
I stated:
"I tired of buying distilled water from the store to make record cleaning fluid for my Keith Monks RCM, so I made an investment in a 7-stage RO/DI system"

To make UltraPure water, it would take another piece of equipment, called a polisher, that costs about 20 times what I paid for my RO/DI system (less than $350). This system also supplies drinking water, as it has a tap between the RO and DI part of the system to be used for drinking water.
This is actually cheaper than purchasing distilled water and filtered drinking water, it I am not driving anywhere to purchase distilled water/drinking water.
As I stated... I use a Keith Monks RCM (dual platter Gemini series) and have been for well over 30 years.

A few years ago I upgraded/modified my Keith Monks. I replaced all electric motors. including the Thread drive and arm drive, with heavy duty Industrial ’Hurst’ custom motors, I replaced the vacuum pump with a new, more powerful KNF vacuum pump, I modified the platter speed from 100rpm down to 55rpm had new pulleys machined for both the thread spooling pulley and arm pulley (lower speed 50%) to add 100% more surface cleaning time and reduce the amount of water being ’flung’, added quality vac gauge etc. I would put this up against any RCM, and if I could only have one RCM, this would be it.... but, it still has its limitations.
That is where ultrasonic comes in... it makes a wonderful accessory to a physical RCM.

I have spent MANY years experimenting and cleaning records. Like many here, I have been collecting for over 50 years, have a collection exceeding 25K and have had many cleaning devices.

I also stated that I "added" the Degritter (twice, as first failed, which is not uncommon with that machine) and now I am "adding" the Klaudio.
At what point did you comprehend that I "air dry" my records? I never stated my cleaning regime, but you rather assume.
For someone who never even cleaned their records before, and now being an ’expert’ on the evils of air drying... amazing. So, was it the (recent?) purchase of your Clearaudio Matrix Pro RCM what made you the expert?
I am very curious of your experience and knowledge of both the Degritter and Klaudio machines? How long have you used either?
Your comments show your lack of knowledge of these devices and your obvious, admitted lack of experience, as you you only recently started to clean your records.

@wizzzard
RO/DI water is Reverse Osmosis/De-iodized water... which is what I use. I use a 7-Stage system that gives me a zero ppm reading on my TDS meter..
RO/DI is the process used to get water in the purest form, Ultrapure, ASTM Type 1 regeant grade, which impurities are measured in parts per trillion.

@whart
Hell Bill... yes that was me. I decided to use better custom parts to upgrade/modify the Keith Monks and glad I did, as it is a much better machine now.
We also had a conversation here on this site a few years ago, as I was having trouble getting in touch with Elina, of Lamm Industries.

I have had both the last 2 editions of Neils book are on my computer... have been a long time fan.
This is the 7-Stage system I have:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/7-stage-pro-75-gpd-ro-di-system-bulk-reef-supply-bundle.html

@ghdprentice 
Words of Wizdom

@recklesskelly
I enjoy filtered RO/DI water for my cleaning needs AND all the filtered RO drinking water I need on tap, at home... no need to go anywhere... for pennies a gallon.

@bdp24

Totally agree... also other mistakes... and when he makes it clear " Distilled Water ONLY. Do not use deionized" and "Check labeling to be certain that it is distilled and not deionized" but can’t/won’t explain why and says he doesn’t know what RO/DI water is... that’s a big hit in the credibility dept.

"That I for one am sticking with Neil Antin’s formula for ultrasonic cleaning: Tergitol 15-S-9 surfactant (and in some cases Alconox Liquinox detergent) added to plain ol’ distilled water. For used LP’s I do a pre-cleaning in the kitchen sink"

Also use the same... Liquinox for the records needing extra cleaning first, then follow with Tergitol solution...then filtered RO/DI water rinse...

@wizzzard

"what is so amazing?"

Your quotes:
"I have stated, and stated frequently. I DO NOT CARE what anyone does or uses. This forum is not intended as a debate. If you wish to debate find another forum, or, start one of you own.
And I ask everyone, if you have opinions, to voice their opinions elsewhere."

Might I suggest the best way for you to get the Self Gratification you so obviously crave, is to read your "facts" to yourself while in the shower.

THIS Forum exists for the EXACT purpose of Debate AND Opinion.
"

@lewm 

25% in US?

@lewm 
Both noromance and lilgerens are using UltraSonic cleaners and the alcohol was adjusted for such.
You are suggesting using 22% ethanol in an UltraSonic bath?

When purchasing Tergitol 15-S-9, remember it has a shelf life of 24 months.

https://ehslegacy.unr.edu/msdsfiles/34840.pdf

@wizzzard
Would like to also add that Tergitol 15-S-7 has a shelf life of less than 24 months.

Only reason I posted this, and I meant my previous post to include both but was distracted and posted without doing so, as there were a number of previous posts talking about the small amounts needed for a record cleaning mixture and that a 100ml bottle would be a ’lifetime’ supply... which, apparently is about 24 months.

@david1964 
It is mentioned a few times in the thread...

I echo the positive comments of those experienced with UltraSonic machines, as like I mentioned earlier, I have been using a Keith Monks (have had 2 in my lifetime) for over 30 years and still think it is the best, if I had to choose just one machine.

But... even after using my Keith Monks I can say I almost always find another level of quiet background, less pops/clicks and more noticeable detail after the use of an UltraSonic cleaner.

@lewm 
Try cleaning your new records, I find that they are just as important to clean as used, especially if you use other than an inexpensive stylus.
There most surely can be more crap on a new record than a well kept used record and another benefit I find is that I will clean a new record, then play and find that after the first play I clean again, there are significantly less clicks and pops and often quieter background... sometimes a new record may need this procedure done multiple times to get the desired quietness.  I find this especially true with Analog Productions vinyl, as they do not 'polish' their plates, as Chad believes that polishing removes some of the highs and detail... but admittedly, leaves tiny 'burrs' in the grooves that may take multiple cleanings/playing to remove.
I clean every record before it lands on my turntable... this alone adds much life to your stylus.

It is my opinion/experience that procedure/routine, quality of tools/brushes and best designed machines trump how picky your cleaning solution is...many of us have already been using similar to what is being suggested and like @dogberry says, there are many ways to skin a cat.
Furthermore, I find it very ironic how the person posting here who probably has the least experience cleaning records is the one first to put down UltraSonic cleaning.
Very curious what experience and what machines he has used, if any...or is this just unfounded bias.

@whart
My experience with cleaning and opinion pretty much mirror most everything you stated in your post.
In fact, so much, that I too have a Keith Monks (dual platter) string RCM have both Degritter and new model Klaudio.
In many of these discussions, on multiple sites, about record cleaning, I have also stated that if I could only keep one machine, it would be the Keith Monks, hands down... an amazing machine.
The model I have is especially convenient, as with having dual platters I can either clean records using both platters, or, what I normally do is use the left side platter for cleaning and use the right side specifically for the final rinse/vacuum... this way, it is always clean and no worries of having to clean each time or cross contamination.

@lloydc 
Per Neil Antin @antinn :

Tergitol 15-S-9.

https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

@wizzzard
From your last post:
"I know all I need to know about Ultrasonic Cleaning"
Apparently not:
"

antinn 338 posts 06-09-2023 at 12:01pm @drkingfish WARNING: 22% Ethanol is flammable with a flashpoint of about 75F. Using this concentration in an Ultrasonic Tank with 100’s or 1000’s of mL that is not explosion proof rated is dangerous. With an ultrasonic unit three mechanisms are in play - the heat that speeds up evaporation; the record rotating is drawing fluid out that is evaporating, and the ultrasonics are agitating the fluid surface and a mist/vapor is often produced. All of this has the potential to setup the necessary conditions to develop flammable AND potentially explosive vapors. Additionally, in a common domestic setting, it is very unlikely that the high ventilation turn-over rates that are required in medical and industrial settings that prevent the accumulation of flammable/explosive vapors will be used. So, the risk in a domestic setting is much higher. There are explosion-proof rated industrial US tanks, but these are very expensive and generally not sold to consumers. Otherwise, ’flammable’ alcohol concentrations use with vacuum-RCM the risk is much less, mitigated by use at room temperature and by the very small quantity used – maybe 5- mL per side.

wizzzard OP 114 posts 06-09-2023 at 02:44pm @antinn Why do people continue post things that they know absolutely nothing about? What are your academic qualifications? In the mean time be also cautious that your glass of wine does not "blow-up in your face while you are writing your response! Sincerely,"

Posted many times in this thread:
https://thevinylpress.com/precision-aqueous-cleaning-of-vinyl-records-3rd-edition/

@wizzzard

From your earlier post:
"What frequencies are we considering, is it fixed or variable, what type of drivers are used, and what power ratings are being considered as well as the "time element" in the bath. And, is rinsing always a necessity"

To properly understand cleaning potential of an UltraSonic device, more information is needed than you stated.
Not only watts/power, but also bath volume. Distance between Lp(s) and transducer is also very important, especially if multiple Lps in the bath.

@mijostyn
Please tell us your experience with records being damaged by UltraSonic cleaning.. or are you again just stating a misinformed opinion with no experience?

As I posted here before, a good UltraSonic machine is a great partner for my Keith Monks RCM... the UltraSonic adds another level of detail and quieter background.
A properly designed UltraSonic cleaner does no damage to a record and I final rinse on my Keith Monks.
I change the bath with each use on the Degritter and with the Klaudio, I also change the over 1 gallon of water in the reservoir tank each use, it also has a filter... there are no contaminants in the water to worry about.
On occasion, I just run a new purchase through my Degritter or Klaudio and let it also dry the record... I doubt there is a lot of difference between a final rinse and the UltraSonic drying the record.

@mijostyn 
Your post is not accurate, as you need to research UltraSonics more to understand better.
Just because a device has more "watts" does not make it more powerful.
The Degritter uses (4) 75 watt 120KHz transducers, and a 45 ounce bath.
The Klaudio uses (4) 50 watt 38KHz transducers, and about 22 ounce bath.

The higher the KHz, the weaker the cavitation effect, especially @ 120Khz compared to 38KHz.
Not only that, but you need to take the bath volume into consideration, as that also very much effects performance.
In comparison, even though the Klaudio has 100 watts less in transducers, it is more powerful than the Degritter because of the lower frequency and volume of bath used.
The Klaudio also has a constant flow cycling through the bath, pumped from the external 1.2 gallon reservoir.

@kylehildebrant 
I suggest you read this for your UltraSonic needs and it is also an excellent all-inclusive record cleaning bible.

https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

@antinn 
Curious what German made RCM you referred to in you last post?

@mijostyn

If you can get it in your area, this is 192 proof:

https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/white-whiskeymoonshine/spirytus-rektyfikowany/p/216932750