don't blame cd or speakers for
for harsh sound
,sometimes the problems are in amplifiers,many of them are tuned with harsh highs in order to make illusion of clean sound
the smoothest sounding speaker
Any recommendations for a smooth sounding speaker? One that won't give you ear fatigue playing CD's. One that doesn't require playing vinyl to sound good.
Vandersteen's come to mind but I would like better resolution. How about Aerials? Is it possible to have both good resolution and still non-fatiguing sound?
Vandersteen's come to mind but I would like better resolution. How about Aerials? Is it possible to have both good resolution and still non-fatiguing sound?
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Smoothness in sound to my ears has equally, if not more to do with lack of smear, low distortion and ease of reproduction. A sibling term could be that of liquidity, and combined these traits are found in particular in well-executed and horn-loaded, high efficiency speakers. Moreover, switching recently to a fully active configuration aided smoothness as well; passive speakers in general sound a bit “thicker,” softer and slightly more veiled compared to an active speaker set-up that is typically more transparent, smoother and with cleaner, sharper transient edges. |
Jean Marie Reynaud speakers probably also fall into the category of "smooth and resolving" when paired with the proper electronics. Beyond that, they are amazing musical and engrossing. |
Cwlondon, I am an avid Harbeth user who bought the speakers from a Harbeth dealer and the images on my system page are actual photos of my system. A friend of mine who owned the Cremonas described them the same way I felt about the Grand Piano Concertos. He moved to the Harbeth as well. Everyone hears things differently so there will be others who may have a different opinion. |
Smooth and resolving do not have opposite connotations, we just think that because in audio gear there tends to be a trade-off. But when I go to Symphony Hall or the Wang Center, I hear rich, vibrant, resonant (hihgly resolved)music that doesn't irritate or fatigue(smooth). Occasionally a product comes out that pushes the existing smoothness/resolution state of the art. Products like Spica TC50s, pass Labs Alephs, and the latest AtmaSphere amplifiers (these had always sounded a bit fatiguing to me unitl the latest rev, but now sound highly resolving and smooth). |
How about refined and resolving ? Some components can sound either grainy or they can sound what I would call raw. I am currently auditioning a mighty fine sounding interconnect, which on first hearing I described as smooth yet beautifully nuanced and/or detailed. Upon reconsideration, I decided refined was a better description, since unlike the common association of loss of detail with "smooth", I hear plenty of information. |
Mrtennis - until one has heard a system that is both smooth and resolving, it is hard to conceptualize. I have been fortunate enough to hear a few systems that are highly resolving of fine detail, yet produce no grit, glare or edge in the music. I do not equate smoothness with an overall excess of warmth and lack of fine detail. I think most people consider a system smooth if it lacks those unwanted artifacts of grit, glare, edge and sharpness. I consider myself extremely fortunate in that my own system has evolved over the years to the point where I experience just that combination of excellent detail resolution without any of the downsides usually associated with such systems. |
Cwlondon: FWIW, the most resolving speakers I have owned are also the least fatiguing - the Ohm Walsh 2000s. I have heard more fine detail from some kilo-buck speakers, but in many cases, that came with the kind of stridency that brings on fatigue quickly, IME. The Ohms, with which I am about 3 months into a 4 month trial period, lack any of the congestion, stridency, brittleness and edge that makes me want to shut off the music and watch a movie before I get through a single album. IMHO, this is due to the absence of a crossover in the critical brightness range of 4-8kHz. The Ohm Walsh crosses over to a supertweeter at around 8kHz, much higher up than conventional multi-driver dynamic speakers. Of course, good design also plays a part in this. As for other "smooth" components, amplifiers I like are Odyssey Audio Stratos (which I own), the Butler hybrid amps, and any current model by Moscode. All are very smooth, yet dynamic and resolving. |
My ATC SCM7's are pretty smooth, even with cheapo Behringer amps. Having chased audiophile nirvana for about 30 years now, I have grown to associate "resolution" with fatigue. In college, I had a pair of Magneplanar MG II b's which although lacking the ribbon tweeter of later models, still had enough resolving power to thrillingly reveal all sorts of faint weirdness, voices and sound effects in Pink Floyd records. They never exhausted or fatigued me, however, and I don't recall ever thinking or saying: "I like these speakers, but if only they were a bit more 'transparent'.." mrtennis, my Apogees, although mere Stages, were indeed very smooth, even with an Aragon 4004 MK II. I would imagine with your CJ, even better and more smooth. To everyone, please do suggest more s-m-o-o-t-h speakers, or for that matter, any smooth components. I am now wondering if the new Harbeth mini monitor might be worthy of hall of fame of smooth. Happy New Year, |
For me, a little extra mid bass (or a little underdamping), combined with the falling FR through the presence region mentioned by Duke, defines "smooth". Vandy's model 2 meets the description pretty well, so I assume that this is what you're after. I own the Verity Parsifal/Encore and it's a textbook example of this. FR falls app. 5db (anechoically) from app. 2khz to 5khz and the bass will, in most rooms, be a bit elevated between 75hz and 150hz. While this may horrify some folks, the result is IMHO very, very musical. Many of the older Sonus Fabers also feature this tonal combo, but the Cremonas, while retaining a bit of the mid bass bump, are much flatter through the presence region than were some of the vintage models. I have owned both speakers for many years, so this post is based on extensive personal experience. However, as always, YMMV. Good luck. Marty |
I agree with Pubul57 choice of the merlins and would add Dunlavy scIII,scIV,scV and scVI's into the mix;these are speakers that you could listen to forever. I would also vote for my current speaker soundlab m2's except impedance curve and listening levels my not appeal the masses except I can listen all night long and not want it to end due to listening fatique or any other reason such as that. |
For example here is a distortion plot and cummulative spectral decay of a mid range driver. Nice because it is playing at 96 db SPL at 1 meter (that is real world music loud - so it is playing at useful levels not soft levels for the test - this takes care of dynamics cleanly). Distortion and Cummulative Spectral Decay (CSD) Note the CSD goes to -35 db which is an entire 10 db lower than you usually see on Stereophile plots - and remember you can ignore the breakup/resonances above 4K as this would be removed or taken care of by a crossover (it is a mid range driver - it can do tweeter duties) The dispersion is nice and even also - see Dispersion plot |
The speaker that I have found to strike the right balance between resolution and smoothness is the Merlin VSM-MXe. The other speaker that seems to be as good are the various speakers I have heard from Verity; if I didn't own Merlin, that would be the speaker line that would most interest me. I also owned the Vandersteen 3As/2wqs, but the Merlin was an improvement in the area resolution and micro dymamic detail. The Merlin uses the Dynaudio Esotar tweeter and I imagine that is a reason for its smooth upper frequencies. Of course, using tube amps doesn't hurt. |
and the kit ZRT |
Here's one When the drivers like this have incredibly low distortion, and the design is well implemented, you get a non-fatiguing "listen all day" type of sound I think (as of today) driver distortion is my biggest detterent to enjoying the music. I can live without all the detail, bass, or treble, but if distortion is high.....no way. |
I hate to argue with you Lou but in my experience it is the loudspeaker that is most often to blame for fatiguing sound. Before I found and fell in love with your DA-1's, I heard countless speakers--most often connected to top shelf electronics (both tube and solid state)--and often found them to wear on me after a relatively short period of time. There are very few speakers out there that get things so right that you can listen (at volume) for hours on end and never feel oppressed. I'm not saying that poor electronics can't mess up an otherwise good speaker but for the most part I think you need to get the loudspeaker right first and foremost. I think your success in this area transcends choice of electronics and source components. |
in striving to build smooth, detailed speakers i've found that the source is sooooo important. much of the harshness and unnatural sound that speakers get the blame for is often the source component. really good speakers reveal the weakness and strengths of the other components. often it's really hard to tell what is the component that is the 'problem'. right now i use an Art Audio tube DAC for listening evaluations. |
You have many options, but two speakers that are remarkable for their smoothness are Sonus Faber Cremona, and Zu Druid. The Cremona is a voiced speaker that trades some ultimate resolution for musicality, and the Druid is an intimately holistic reproducer that intentionally sacrifices some of its big brother's extreme revelatory character to retain the warmth and unity of a simpler design. Two different price points, yes, but both can be used with a wide range of gear, including the best. Phil |
my latest speaker is the smoothest i have heard while still have the extreme detail and emotion. Avantgarde uno, previously i had martin logan and before that acoustats and they were smooth and detailed until i hear the uno's. what is also interesting is that i had various brand silver cables and they all make the systems sound bright, changed the entire system to paul spletz anti cable and the detail, smoothness and bass and high all sounded better. hope that helps. |
Ozzy, tell me about it. I am also looking into Dynaudio MC15 active speakers too. They use A/b amps. No Flying Mole digital stuff. Then all I would need is to build a dual mono motorized Alps pot volume control. The Marantz CDP is sort of harsh although really good for the $$$. Such a bummer the Sony SRP-P50 is no longer available. I also like the Creek A50r. Can't find those either. I have built a variety of single driver speakers and even though they are fairly low resolution they are still harsh. That's because of the breakup modes, typically at 6 and 12kHz. No wonder people don't design these drivers into speakers to run full range, even though the driver can do it. |
Verity Audio....I have been in love with their smoothness since first hearing the Fedilo in 1997... Couldn't afford them then and went all over the map until my recent purchace of the Parisifal Ovations. For the most refined "smooth" sound go with the PO's. There are many speakers out their that are easy on the ears...Sonus Faber, DeVore, Dali...but the best of the best, IMO, are the VAs... Enjoy, John |
I would suggest you check out Daedalus Audio. One of Lou's key design objectives is NO listener fatigue. I had the DA-1's for a couple years and they were the most non-fatiguing (yet lively and dynamic) speaker I've ever owned or heard--and I've owned several of the speakers mention such as Harbeth Compact 7's, Spendor SP1's and Spendor S100's. I've also heard the Aerial 7B's. If non-fatiguing sound is your thing, the Daedalus stuff is worth checking into. BTW, Lou is going to release several new models at the RMAF in a few weeks. He has two new "Reference Line" speakers and will be rolling out updated versions of the excellent DA-1 and DA-2. One of these models will be gracing my living room shortly. If your planning on being in Denver, go have a look. |
I personally love the Aerial 6's - I have a small square room (12 X 15)... lots of clean SS power (Levinson 23.5) and some acoustic room treatments. I am upgrading to the Aerial 9's as soon as I can find a nice set in Rosewood. I like the idea of the 20T ... but man, I just cant swing that much cash. For the price I thought the 6's actually sounded sweeter (less fatiguing) and had better imaging than the 7b's. I thought the 6's were a little weak when you hit higher volume levels - the 7b's did a much better job in that regard. The 9's were a combination of all the good in both the 6's and the 7b's... |
A speaker can be made to sound smooth by designing in a frequency response dip in the lower treble region (somewhere around 2 kHz to 5 kHz). The Silverlines mentioned by Zapper and Bondmanp often have a pronounced dip in this region and I think that Shahinans do as well, and a lesser dip is present in many British speakers (and I would guess something like that is present in most of the other speakers mentioned in this thread that I'm not familiar with). Maggies have a broader, gentler lower treble dip that smooths the presentation. As Mrtennis points out, there are tradeoffs involved. To my ears, a speaker with reduced energy in the lower treble region is lacking in upper harmonic energy on many acoustic instruments, and so it doesn't have as much "life". I find myself wanting to turn the volume level up louder to hear the harmonic richness that I expect. I used to own Quad 63's, and would not describe them as an especially "smooth" and forgiving speaker - they could sound somewhat aggressive with some program material. Quad 57's are smoother, and I haven't heard the latest Quads. Speakers that are free from peaks in the 2-5 kHz region (whether on-axis or off-axis) are likely to sound fairly smooth without trading off too much upper harmonic energy. But if you want a speaker that sounds smooth even with a harsh recording, you'll need a speaker whose response dips signiifcantly in the lower treble region. Duke |
