as long as you can afford all your gear, I see no problem...it can be fun hearing familiar records sound different with different gear...
The Psychology of Constant (Equipment) Change
Anybody have an answer?
I have a decent selection of preamps, amps, integrateds and speakers to choose from and I find myself swapping out gear constantly. And it's not because anything sounds bad. Quite contrary, really.
After most swapping sessions, I'm generally really satisfied and quite enjoy the sound quality. But within a few weeks I'm swapping stuff out again.
What would be the diagnosis for my condition?
154 responses Add your response
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milpai: Thank you for the condescending comment, and I fluently, write and speak more languages that you probably ever will. You sound like someone with many friends! Congratulations! Perhaps you should read an entire thread and understand the context before jumping to uneducated conclusions. |
Thanks Firefly.Many are ashamed to admit that a stereo has them by the nuts and are powerless too stop.This is where I come in and get open and honest without fear of judgement.In my opinion this behavior has nothing to do with audio at all but an attempt to fill that empty hole inside.It never works it just isolates more from what most important.Materials can not do what love and helping others can.I suffer from this phenomenon and wanted to speak out hence starting my channel.Maybe some will not judge and take some and leave the rest as its pretty heavy what I talk about and it relates to audio as more of an obsession but at the end of the day it is to avoid self,escapism and only progresses.Trauma is a very powerful thing and many will go to great lengths by repeating the same thing to avoid facing it.I have come to these conclusions for myself.Some are relating too it and chiming in on my channel now.It is great to try my best to help others as it helps me Checkout Audio Shrink on youtube
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Acoustic knowledge and basic mechanical and electrical controls and synergy gave me an ectasy that never ended two times... Each time with low cost system... Then i think there is many people that has a hole to fill as said daveyboy.. If not this case they dont lack money and they dont takes the time to learn..
I never experienced a good system well embedded with a boring sound, then unable to make music acoustically immersive... |
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I am flabbergasted by the fact that all aspects of hearing and interpreting sound quality with all concepts and the control parameters linked to them exist in many acoustics science article... Timbre is very precisely described for example... Then we dont need to buy a piece of gear so called " high end " to know what a better timbre experience is. We pick a basic synergetical audio system to begin with and we play by experiments with the many parameters between system and room and ears in their three working dimensions... i know what is Immersiveness conceptually and by experience for example not because i bought a very costly high end system as THE solution , but because i learned how to create immersiveness with all the possible varied parameters i can control and play with . I called the balance necessary between all acoustics parameters to reach Immersiveness : the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold... A high end system in a dedicated room will do better with an improved immersiveness for sure than my low cost one. But trust me we can live with minimal immersiveness. i call that ectasy everyday.. 😊 Hearing must be LEARNED...Not by purchase but by experiments , acoustic concepts had no relation with branded name of gear or even details of design. i am one of the rare person here who spoke about methods not about specific gear piece as a solution ... Guess why ? Gear dont matter much in acoustics if they gave a minimal quality necessary to begin with our study...
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True, it helps to have multiple points of reference accessible. Internalized memory is the core foundation for how the sense organs (eyes, ears, etc) function. Once upon a time, when the Europeans showed up in huge ships on American shores, the natives could "see" the men appearing/moving towards the shores. But, they couldn’t "see" the huge ships (this is of course a blatant example). But, I could go to any number of examples on what I observe with guys who show up to audit my equipment. When its a guy who sounds like he’s real sure of everything, I’ll play him instruments from around the world/types of music he’s never ever heard. The fun starts there. 😉 |
This is true...very good point... Thanks ... We cannot perceive as meanginful nor recognize as meaningful something for which we have no concept...And the concept to be understood must be experiment with... And the concept of timbre, or sound source dimension and listener envelopment, and all other secondary concepts, must be fully understood in all Their aspects by experiments not by comparing two system but instead playing with the frequency response of the speakers and the room of ONE system , the pressure zones of the room , the reverberation time, the location of many devices reflecting-absorbing-diffusin, the distribution or tuning of resonators etc etc .. Then the "many reference point" need to be acoustic parameters not branded name products mainly save if instead of creating an audiophile experience you want to sell gear pieces as solution😁... We cannot learn audiophile experience merely by buying gear... It is evident for me listening many youtube reviewers that many think so by contagion of a new gear virus ... |
@ellajeanelle , so you started by providing me examples that did not line up with that the OP was asking. Good to know that you know so many languages. Congratulations! But if you had just mastered one, you probably would have figured what the OP was asking. Give it a try one more time. |
When we are not satisfied with a system there is two possible reason: Frustration because we detect an acoustic defect and an unbalanced set of factors affect us in a direct way consciously... The defects is perceptible as a defect and it cause un- balance... Then advising people to concentrate on music instead of the sound as milpai advised it is not a solution...@ellajeanelle is right about that when speaking of uncomfort in a car as a metaphor...
But because the OP said he was pleased by his system then , the other factor is the one affecting him ( i exclude OCD because we are in an audio forum not a psy forum ) is: Boredom : when an audio system is not well under acoustic, mechanical or electrical control by the owner or if the synergy is not so good, the system can deliver a relatively seemingly balance PLEASANT sound with no apparent defects but no very powerful impact in timbre experience, in dynamic or in immersiveness... All is pleasant but a bit bland .. The solution can be upgrading some pieces or all of them but before doing that i advise to go into experiments , acoustical one and electrical and mechanical one with what we have already and nothing is more fun... Nothing is more fun than becoming more active and creative... Buying a new piece is not always the solution... My system BEFORE my experiments was a bit bland and boring for one because of the relation between speakers/room and my second system was horrible because of the speakers design... The solution was mechanical control of vibrations resonance, shielding cables and gear, increasing the link quality of the electrical contact , modifying my speakers porthole and tweeter and especially increasing the quality of acoustic . Now i am if not in ectasy i am so pleased that only music matter ..Better system, way better exist but i dont give a damn because i had reach the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold and i know it and i know how... |
milpai: I am sooo sorry to disappoint you but unfortunately, you don't merit another minute of my time with further response. 😢 |
Ok those are two reasons. Are there only two? How about:
Fun. Fun is a reason. So now it looks like three possible reasons. Maybe there is even a fourth! Or a fifth! About immersiveness (or "immersion" I would call it):
There is what "you" can (or have to) live with and then there is "we." I can speak for "me" and some of my audio friends. What one can "live with" is not the end point with me (or us). And many others here would probably agree that they would rather seek better sound than "live with" the minimum. To each his own but that’s my two cents. Once I identified how to achieve immersion and excellent sound qualities, I began to hear these aspects in other sound systems. In some cases, the gear was the difference which made a difference. To be clear, I know this is a high-priced hobby sometimes. But it doesn’t have to be. But while very expensive gear is not a magic solution to getting better sound better gear is a very important element. And long posts about acoustics and the brain don’t justify ignoring the gear factor. If I cannot afford better gear, I just admit it or try to find something used or in kit form. But gear matters when all other factors are nearly optimal. That’s why I don’t want to settle for "minimal" satisfaction. I find it an enjoyable part of the hobby to seek better sound.
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Your minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold might be lower (nothing wrong wit that and good for you). However, my minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold is just very, very, very high...sky high. |
Are you a logical being or some other consideration impede your reason ?
I EXPLICITLY state : «When we are not satisfied with a system there is two possible reason: Frustration...
It is fun to embed rightfully an audio system/room and it is fun to be creative to reach HIGHER qualitative immersiveness yes . But "fun" is not a an acoustical reason to be unsatisfied by a system ...😊
Now for the rest of your post :
The minimal acoustical satisfaction concept threshold, is not a stopgap and it is either not a reason to seek no improvement... do you catch in spite of my heavy english ?😁 It is the first level of a relative satisfying acoustic balance between all acoustic factors implied in the experience of a system/room . It is a concept i presented to define a minimal acoustic balance , minimal but so good balance we can be happy with that.... it is supposed here that the design of each pieces of the gear are relatively satisfying and with synergy... This does not mean that someone with a budget without limitations or someone in search of the maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold could not invest his money and experiments in this pursuit... Why not ? The OP may be in this case , not being frustrated at all as he said it clearly and possibly not bored which he did not explained clearly... ( i excluded obsessive disorder about the OP because we are in an audio forum and i exclude "fun" to buy gear in a blind race because before upgrading too much we must learn the acoustic basic and i supposed the OP is not conscious of the importance of acoustics concepts and experiments )
Now your post miss the target because most of us the OP included are in the hobby of listening music FIRST AND LAST...Not in the hobby of peddling gear pieces around... not in the hobby of buying gear without end in the pursuit of a perfection which is not defined by acoustic concepts and parameters but mostly by the price of the gear alleged to be better piece of gear which is not true or false but must be judged case by case ...
By the way you are so stubborn when you decide that you dont like my posts that you accuse me FALSELY here of denying the importance of gear choices not only for synergy but for reaching the MAXIMAL satisfaction acoustical threshold... Are you able to think ? If the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold can be reach ONLY with a balance between the acoustics factors and parameters implied in the system /room and with also the controls over mechanical and electrical factors, if it is so, What are the conditions to reach the maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold, if we know that the acoustical and mechanical and electrical controls applied in the same way to any system at any price ? It is MOSTLY by a radical upgrade of the system design pieces with high end component ...This is a common place fact... Then contrary of what you claim erroneously about my posts, it is clear since the beginning, when i distinguish minimal and maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold... Takes a beer relax... 😊 At least unlike the thread about A. I. where you quitted instead of thinking and answering it seems as you said because i posted too much interesting content in too many posts , you are here with me and criticize my posts... For staying with me and answering unlike the A. I. thread i thank you.... At least i can precise my thoughts... 😊
«For some it is more fun to play with the bricks than to build the house»Anonymus |
Most of us dont like change for the change if we are not reviewer or professional sellers... We are here to improve for the best what we own... We are here to learn about acoustics and controls of electrical and mechanical parameters (tweaks and method and devices ) Obsessive compulsive disorder is not fun... Purchasing race may be fun for sometime , but is not a useful hobby for those like me who want MUSICAL best possible acoustic experience for our budget limits... Buying one piece after the other compared to the creativity implied in installing a system in a room , is like masturbation compared to making love with a loved one... We listen music not the gear once a system/room is created ... It is my hobby...
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I am unqualified to render a diagnosis. However, I respectfully suggest asking yourself 2 questions. First, are you having FUN with the swapping of equipment and accessories? Second, do you feel you are NEGLECTING family, friend, financial, or other priorities when you spend time your audio swapping? If you are having fun and feel other important aspects of your life are balanced, I suspect you are simply a music appreciation hobbyist. God bless! |
If they were no acoustical way to improve the design of speakers and the room design and also the relation between speakers designs and the room, if there exist no concepts no parameters controls and no means to optimize acoustically a room/system ; then perhaps juggling at random with gear pieces purchase will be the only possible fun... On the contrary juggling randomly with pieces of gear guided only by the price tag drive most people to frustration, boredom or obsession about "perfection" with a bit of fun and surprize in between each "upgrade" ...We must know why and how and with what we will upgrade BEFORE upgrading if we are in a rational optimization process... If we juggle with new pieces of gear to break boredom we dont need to know anything because we believe in a self deceptive way THIS NEW piece of gear will be the solution. We are not even wrong here ...😁 Optimization process for ONE chosen and selected system using basic knowledge is not and cannot be a race toward "perfection" which is a self deceptive acquired bias conditioned by audio marketing ... It is more fun to be creative building a house than juggling with bricks... it is also more useful because even if we change the bricks material composition and design we had learn architecture... Juggling is fun for sure but it is beside the point... |
+1 @hilde45 . |
I never ignored the gear factor. the gear factor is a common place factor. We must all buy the best gear we can. i never negated what is evident : a better design cost more... But I never either approved a cliché : higher price tag are audio solution ...
Many people here promote their choice of gear as SOLUTION...As many reviewers did... I never did that. I promoted for 8 years what i called the three working embeddings controls of the gear system in a room ...BEFORE upgrading to a new level we must understand basic... Is it Chinese?😊
But i always insisted that we must learn how to install rightfully our system BEFORE upgrading... Only a simpleton or a bad faith dude can use that false accusation against me of neglecting the gear as an argument against the necessary method we must all use to install any system/room at any price ... The common place fact that upgrading is possible dont means that it is THE SOLUTION... Learning , experimenting with what we have is the solution... After that we can without useless loss of money upgrade to any system at any price because then we had learned how to install one we can install now any system at any price at his optimal working.... . Who on earth cannot understand that ? Hilde45 ? He hate my posts and even quitted a thread about A. I. because i gave too much information and he was unable or unwilling to discuss ... Dont believe me go see .. 😊😊 The other dude acted the same...
😊 😊😋 i like people who dont act as vexed children who sulk in a corner before attacking you for your syntax or posts lenght... They had no other arguments ...
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You seem to be real confused again 😖...Irrespective of whatever "acoustic/mechanical/electrical control" you acheived/tweaked away as an "owner"...well, you, didn’t really achieve a whole lot there because it’s the soundfield produced by a speaker that interfaces with the room before it hits a listener’s physicality. For instance, that soundfield is drastically different for different types of speakers. For example, a large PA horn and a smaller concentric driver design tend to be drastically different in that manner. Whatever "acoustic/mechanical/electrical control" you achieved got thrown out the window (start all over again) when a drastically different speaker showed up. The multiple reference points are directly tied to the gear! The "acoustic parameters" change each time for everyone, except for the 1 trick pony. |
First you cannot know the optimal working level of a system BEFORE experimenting with it, you must chose one to begin with and using all parameters to install optimally it in the house/room.. This is the learning path . We learn by using one system and experiment with it in the mechanical, electrical and acoustical working dimension and their possible acoustics parameters. ( acoustics with an "s" is more than just room acoustic i modified my speakers porthole and waveguide with acoustic basic knowledge and i used crosstalk physical and psychoacoustical fact to improve my listening experience the same is true for timbre, ASW and LV as evaluated not only in the room acoustic but in regard to mechanical and electrical and modified gear factors because all factors are interrelated etc ) Then changing the gear pieces BEFORE learning basic knowledge with a system which is already minimally good and synergetical to begin with and chosen as a starting point is an ERROR ... When we had learned how to install one we can install any other system...it is time to invest more money...
Then what i just explain here invalidate your point about me... Anybody knows that all pieces of gear speakers included act with different design idea and different specs ... So what ? How this cliche can invalidate my argument that we must learn acoustics with an "s" with one chosen preferably relatively low cost system BEFORE upgrading to very high end ?😊
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@mahgister I used to read your comments. Since you openly advertised you pro-Putin, pro-war agenda, I just scroll over them. Saves me a lot of time as well. |
With all due respect i am not pro Putin... I do not endorse any deplacement of army in another country ... But i am not blindly for war promoted by Biden ... With 38 biological laboratory in Ukraine either since 20 years with benefit for Biden and son directly ... Read other newspaper better inform yourself before judging other... ... A narrow mind member here 4 years ago accused me of killing people because i spoke about Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine instead of remdesivir and injection ... He confused me with a pro Trump at this time.. Guess who was right ? Before judging people we must think ... I read your posts and i like them generally by the way ...😊 I skip only idiots nevermind their opinion Pro or against Biden or Putin ... 😊 (An idiot in my interpretation use insults ad hominem argument and Spam images and had no arguments)
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@mahgister , if Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine is your choice of treatment for Covid, I'll give you a hint: you are not the one who was right.
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@mahgister wow, you are more extreme than I thought. I get my info from the ground from Ukraine from my relatives. The stuff you are writing is wildly inaccurate. And respectfully, to not hijack this post, I am done with Russia related issues here for good. |
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.... I don't think I'll ever apologize at any point in the near future for rambling 'off-topic' .... I mean. Really... What started as an innocent ('apparently'....😏..) query into thoughts of what drives one to empty ones' wallet, write too many words describing a figure on a check (Remember those? 'How....quaint...'....), or making a ccard wilt.... ...in regard to a hobby and/or heavy involvement in SOTAAudio.. Somehow can become a political attack...🤷♂️ Lame.... |
With your permission, I’d like to steer this discussion back to "on topic." Since you are asking us to "get inside your head" (a bold endeavor for certain), I have some comments --- AND -- a suggestion. Your seemingly perpetual loop of "dissatisfaction" with your system could be unrelated to "audio" and may be pointing to other areas of your life you are wresting with? If, for instance, maybe you are subjected to a barrage of conflicts you can’t resolve, family matters, business matters, political tug of war, or just trying to make the world a better place? This/these would represent items that are out of your control for many reasons -- too hot to touch (family matters), above your pay grade (fixing the world’s problems). Your actions and attentions could turn to what you DO have control over and affect the outcomes -- your system. You CAN FIX it, make it better, and feel that you have successfully solved a problem. Things ARE better, because YOU properly observed the problem, connected the dots correctly, made intelligent decisions and deployed them artfully. Now for the suggestion: Apply gratitude. That is to say, each time you sit in the "sweet spot" acknowledge what it took to get you in this space at this time, and be grateful. So many things had to go "right" to get you where you are RIGHT NOW. In a wonderful space, that your hard work and disciplined life created, your meticulous selection of high resolution audio gear, listening to the best examples of musical excellence the world has ever known. Then l-i-s-t-e-n to the m-u-s-i-c and e-n-j-o-y what is unfolding in front of you. (And, off to the sides, and behind). If any dissatisfaction creeps into your head, tell yourself just how lucky are to have "good" problems to solve. And, this isn’t a problem that needs solving. Best of luck. |
As i explained in my posts, the OP do not suffer probably at all of any psychological problem. I was in the same situation when i did not know how to optimize mechanically, electrically and acoustically a system/room ... Most people dont know sorry, it is easy to verify that they dont experiment generally save buying gear,..😊 Most people buy gear , they said that they like it but soon in a short time begin anew to be frustrated if the acoustical balance defect is evident but if the system is too bland they enter into boredom and they think to upgrade again as a solution... Juggling with gear pieces is not the solution to begin with sorry most of the times... It is not a psy problem OP , it is an acoustics problem ( with an (s) dear Hilde45 then not room acoustic merely ) Am i am wrong ? Then why am i not only am i happy but borderline acoustically and musically ecstatic each day? Rightfull optimization of what we have BEFORE upgrading... Minimal acoustic satisfaction because of a good balance between acoustics factors EXCLUDE boredom with the sound by definition of what it is in acoustic concepts : ASW/LV = immersiveness There exist other mechanical factors... Speakers vibrate and enter resonance... Their porthole trust me is not well designed in most case etc.... the electrical factors are numerous ...
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My post is not about my happiness it is about the way we must experiment and study concepts in acoustics ( no not mere room acoustic Hilde45) BEFORE buying gear pieces call upgrade ... There is only one way to install a system.... A race toward buying the costlier piece of gear is not the solution... because we must understand how to install anything before throwing money for costlier piece ...
What is your solution ? Calling a psy for the OP suffering from compulsive disorder which is probably not the case or advising him to read "absolute sound" magazine and buying 30,000 bucks speakers ? Advising him to concentrate on music with a boring sound experience ? What do you propose ?😊 I propose the OP for example experiment with speakers resonance control ...To begin the fun with experimenting ...
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"Hate" your posts? No, not hate. But they go on and on and barely make sense. And you repeat again and again, the same points. Anyone here for more than a couple years can just search for your posts and see how you make the same point over and over. Often, you don't get replies. Why? Because you say something with 1000 words when you could say it with 100. You're a time-waster. You're too old to learn self-control. Pity. |
If instead of insulting me you go on the Jazz thread, on the piano thread, On the thread about A.I. and music, on the thread "The Mystery Of Sound Is Mysticism" Not one of my posts is repetition but new information each time... i invite everybody to verify... Now when i spoke about system/room and the way to adress the acoustic perceiving desired experience i did not as most people recommend the gear fad of the year or my own gear... You call my insistance on acoustic truth "bla Bla" confusing acoustics with room acoustic.. Someone of bad faith impatient with a non english speaker like me whom you patronized without end for the last 4 years in your cold hypocrital way cannot be surprized if i am less patient with him today... I answered your lies and insults about me... yes i had much time, i am retired , i like all people here and i offer what i can to help... But after 4 years with you patronizing my posts and your last insults i feel right to describe your meanness ..
Anybody able to offer a great deal of information here is not a "time waster"...Sorry... I am old yes but what about your own "self control" for 4 years of harassment about my posts numbers or content my dear friend ? did you forgot that ? For 4 years me i replied to all of your post politely by the way ... Buy a mirror... I do not pity you... I do not pity you as you can pity me sorry, i do not pity patronizing mean people sorry ... I despise them ... i like the truth ...
I will ask you a question hilde45 : why instead of pity me in public did you say nothing save insult after i posted about one of the greatest discovery in Acoustic this YEAR and put links to it and to many other articles and a book about its meaning ? Where is you brain going ? Anybody can go there and see i dont lie , i put a great deal of important information about a discovery in acoustic which make the news this month "Pythagoras is wrong "...The thread is here : "The Mystery Of Sound Is Mysticism" Anybody will read there among many new very important information your patronizing insult to me as an answer .. Good luck... |
@audiodwebe there must be a layman’s pop psychology forum better suited to diagnose you 😜 I suspect @bigtwin is pretty close for the typical circumstance - rotating gear seems a likely surrogate for a shopaholic fix and could also justify buying even more, at least periodically. I don’t like buying electronic stuff, and I don’t think I’m the “norm” in that regard. Nothing might sound definitively better than the rest for too long if you like buying stuff. A maybe-relevant counterpoint is that I focus on inquiry-based research outside my stereo hobby, perhaps that’s why I have limited wish to exercise similar behavior towards my music listening setup. I “get my fill” elsewhere? I used inquiry-based approach on my stereo setup in defining and devising what I wanted from my listening experience early on. Whether it was more luck or learning that got me what I wanted seems irrelevant. The curiosity many audiophiles have for kit-swapping has always struck me as an exercise of fun with pseudoscience: casual experimentation without proper controls or full understanding of the process, selectively including the bits that enhance their enjoyment of said process. I think this is a frequent basis of the “I trust my ears only” camp. And as long as their takeaway doesn’t result in pushing self-concocted rules onto others about stuff that has not been demonstrated (e.g. sonic differences in cables), I see no harm in it. As least provided all bills get paid 😅 ”There’s no perfect solution” also isn’t limited to one’s opinion, but depends on the physics of how your playback kit handles different masters of music. Those are all engineers’ / artisans’ impressions on what sounded “correct” via a multitude of studio setups and a handful of personal opinions. It’s very unlikely that one specific chain will get all specific masters’ tracks and instruments/effects to sound equally ideal for a person who listens to/for things I sometimes consider sonic minutia. Stereo mixing and the unending plethora of hifi kit devices to throw at it are quicksand to stasis in satisfaction for certain folks’ personalities. Who gives a flying flock (of feathers)? If you don’t, then literally no worries, eh? 😉 One psychological size fits all doesn’t seem to apply in this hobby no matter what some folks might tell ya otherwise. |