The best way to start adding A=analog to my system

So only new turntables?
I have an old one, which I got new.

There is a also your location, which can alter what might be readily available… both new and used.
 

@saulh - My analogue journey started back in 1981 and through the years I’ve owned one turntable, but that has been modified and tweaked many times, and several phono stages and cartridges,

Throughout all of those purchases the one thing that really stood out and has lasted, is my phono stage - a Simmaudio MOON LP5.3 RS

• it can be configured to almost any cartridge - both MM and MC
• is sounds amazing - very detailed, very neutral, great imaging
• it has a really low noise floor - no hums or hiss
• the latest version of the LP5.2 RS is the 310LP
• MOON’s entry level is the 110LP v2, which is also very good
• and they also offer two higher resolving models
• https://simaudio.com/en/product-category/phono-preamplifiers/
• MOON products also respond very favorably when used with very good cables
  • some models have the option for a seperate power supply
  • but I use a very good power cable and the improvements were very noticeble

So that might be something to consider in your initial purchase, because once you have a good phono stage, it allows you to really hear what the cartridge and turntable can do

I have also tried several brands of phono stage, but the MOON really stood head and shoulders above all the others.

Once you have a good phono stage you can focus on the other aspects of your analogue components.

Cartridges will change over the years

• I have opted for a modified Denon DL 103 that has a Soundsmith cantilever/stylus
• but there are literally 100’s to choose from

Turntables/arms may change until you get one that you are happy with

• my favourite brand right now is Music Hall
  • vbiration isolation is at the forefront of their designs
  • their arms are very well designed
  • they have a large range of products
  • I would select a model that has an acrylic platter

Hope that provides some assistance

Regards - Steve

The size of your collection of LP's is not made known, if there is the need to create a LP Collection, this can quickly create a cost that is quite substantial.

Buying Cheap Vinyl can get one a large collection speedily, but the enjoyment of the vinyl experience and replaying LP's can cause disturbing concerns for the stylus if the source materials is noticeably imperfect. 

If a collection is desired to be owned, as a start place I would suggest a selection of New or Used  VGC Condition LP's from your preferred performers are purchased and experienced with some of the TT's that are being considered for your TT Set Up.

If the Albums are familiar to you in another medium, then the impact of them being replayed as an LP, will be identifiable.

Once the level of playback quality for the vinyl is established, a estimate of the  quantity of vinyl that would like to be collected can then be budgeted for.

This will assist with getting a grasp on the estimated total a new TT set up and LP collection can accumulate to.

There are most commonly Belt Drive and Direct Drive TT's available as New Models, each has their own fan clubs. To broaden the experience, it might be worthwhile experiencing each drive type as part of a pre-purchase investigation...

Saul,

The Clearaudios offer a substantial discount for cartridges with a new purchase, so it is likely a good idea to take advantage of that, say with either the Concept MC or one of the Hana's, or other.  Your dealer will likely give you the same discount option with another cartridge. But with an inferior cartridge, you'll never hear what you're paying up to attain.

 If you must make compromises for now on the excellent Clearaudio Performance setup, the Satisfy Carbon tonearm is a reasonable substitute for the Tracer and can be easily swapped out later.

Origin Live recommend a budget of

30% on turntable

30% on tonearm

30% on phone preamp

10% on cartridge

I agree with that assessment. However I would alter this for the first setup. I’d start with a turntable and arm combo and and an appropriate priced cartridge and phono preamp. Maybe 10 % cartridge and 15% phono preamp.. Then, upgrade the phono preamp ASAP when the budget allows.

@saulh , you have a very nice system, Cheaping out on a turntable would be a big mistake. Good systems will make a bad turntable sound worse. A turntable/tonearm combination that would fit in with your system is going to cost a minimum of $9,000 and that is not including the cartridge which will be another $4000 plus and we have not gotten to the phono stage yet. 

If you are not ready to spend this kind of money yet I would hold on and continue saving. Buying something you are going to be unhappy with is a waste of money. Do it right and do it once. I think the perfect table for you would be a Basis 2200 Signature with a Vector 4 arm. That is around $15,000. You could probably get it down to $13,000 with the right dealer. Cartridges are disposable items so if you have to save money get a Lyra Delos to start and down the line get an Etna. 

I'm assuming you do not yet have a record collection. You have to seed a collection at the start. Put $1500 aside to buy 50 or so records then buy an average of a record a week. If you just buy a few records at the beginning the tendency is to listen to them over and over. You get bored with them and they get worn with frequent playing. Down the line you buy a few more record which you wind up playing the same way. You  build a collection of worn records you are bored with. If you buy 50 to start and continue adding on you will always have new music to enjoy and will build a collection of pristine records. 

@holmz I am looking at new turntables, because there are a lot of delicate moving parts. I am definitely considering used phono stages though.

@pindac great point. I am inheriting about 200-250 33s of mostly jazz and R&B, which is likely most of what I will listen to, though I have added (yes, even before the tt! some additional rock albums). 

This is great news that you have approx’ a quarter of a Cartridges Life (if all goes tickety-boo) in source material to replay.

One more suggestion, if you can have a small selection correctly cleaned LP's, and compare the impact of the cleaned vs un-cleaned on the stylus, there may be enough evidence to convince you the collection could be a candidate for a little TLC.

Methods employed that improves the condition and cleanliness of the LP, will create an ideal interface for the Stylus and this ’should’ also produce an extended usage life for it.

It is a better equation financially when replays are extended with the usage life of a Cartridge.

A $800 Cart’ as 600 hrs of usage prior to needing to be changed is $1.33 per whole album as a rough average, @ 1200 hrs of usage prior to needing to be exchanged the replay is $0.66 per whole album as a rough average.

Some the places where you might be looking to be offered a demonstration of a TT, might be able to offer a cleaning service for a selection of TT’s whilst you are at the premises.

The disciplines that can be adopted in conjunction with LP Analogue Replays, has a few extra needs to be considered and time made for.

@mijostyn thanks for that info. You give me a lot to think about there. I eventually I plan to get to what you are talking about, but I definitely need to figure out some baby steps on the way there. That way while I am en route, I can listen to some lps.

@pindac I was planning on getting an Okki Nokki or something similar to clean the records regularly.

@saulh , I am one of those immediate gratification people and having wasted a lot of money this way I continually have to bite my tongue. I know you REALLY want to play records. You have a target to shoot for. Aim directly at it and try to avoid the deflection shots. I think you will be much happier in the long run. Playing records is a real PITA. You have to really love the sound to make it worth while. Your system demands a quality of turntable I previously mentioned. Don't compromise. You risk making yourself unhappy with the results wasting money when in the long run it would have been considerably less expensive to bite your tongue and hold on till you can afford the real deal.  

I understand what you have heard and want. I have owned turntables for over fifty years. At first analog could not be duplicated at any cost with digital… then it could but at a huge difference in cost. The differential has been reduced year by year. At this point you can get the “same” sound out of digital for not much more. But like anything… it takes effort. You have some very good equipment. Whatever the sound you liked, you can get through digital… and likely for the same price or less than getting into vinyl.

Getting into analog will require a turntable and phono stage… plus buying record and a record cleaner. To try and abstract this: A turntable with cartridge and a Phonostage should cost each roughly the same as your preamp and amp… which should be on the same as DAC and Streamer. These need to be carefully chosen, not just some random purchase… obvious this is a generalization… but my system ended up pretty close to this (see my UserID). The phono stage is really important.

So as a quick review of your system. I would invest in a great streamer (Aurender is my choice… it is all they do).. if that doesn’t do it then trade in the CD / Player / DAC for a great DAC (or CD player / DAC). A great streamer (stand alone is required for audiophile sound and it should be an investment similar to amp or preamp a bit less than speakers.

In my system vinyl and digital sound the same. There is no “vinyl character” that sounds better (although I know this difference as for most of my life it was obvious)… both digital and analog have the same character. One can sound a bit better on on because of mastering.

I'd rather have one great setup between analog and digital rather than two mediocre setups. So, if I were you, I'd upgrade the digital or wait and save for top flight vinyl setup. Both mijostyn and ghdprentice make good points.

My vinyl setup is more costly than what your budgeting for and rarely gets played since my digital outperforms it. Continuing to go with two setups has been costly for me,  getting two setups to be competitive with each other has resulted in far greater expenditure vs. what I would have spent with only one top flight system. I'm now in position that $10k phono stage and at least $2k cartridge will be required to compete with digital, cha ching, cash register keeps on adding up. I'd likely give up vinyl if I didn't have 3k+ albums.

This may be a small thing, but take it or leave it:

I’m not sure if Mike Fajen is still the customer service representative at Clearaudio’s American distribution company, Musical Surroundings, but he has been nothing short of tremendous with answering my questions and, all in all, providing unimpeachable customer service.  Just fantastic.

When I play fantastic pressings on my Concept Wood/Carbon Fiber Satisfy/Concerto v2 setup into the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ phono stage, I’m quite a happy camper, FWIW.  The noise floor of the Phonomena II+ may leave something to be desired @ $700 MSRP.

We all have different ears, but to mine the vinyl sound is unique but not nearly as convenient as digital. You might consider a rega planar 6 with the Ania cart and rega phono stage. I have owned that in the past and while you can certainly do better, I thought it delivered a lot of performance for the cost. I thought there was a pretty big jump in performance from the 3 to the 6. Good luck!

If you like Clearaudio, look into a Marantz TT-15S1. It is made by Clearaudio and comes with the Satisfy arm and the Virutoso Ebony Wood cartridge. It is similar to the Clearaudio Emotion but with a better arm and cartridge.

@sns 

An idea.  Since you consider digital sound beats analogue, why do you remain heavily invested in analogue?  You say you would sell up if you didn't have ~3k albums.  But selling up is logical for you.

Record to digital all the LPs you don't already have on digital or can't hear for free on the internet.  Then sell all your analogue kit plus all the albums.  This will realise many $10,000s.

Results

1.   You will be a lot richer

2.   You won't be wasting space storing 3,000 LPs

3.   You will have better sound (in your opinion)

What's not to like???

@saulh

I wanted a TT so I could listen to my father’s albums

Went with the Clearaudio Concept and think it was a great choice. Plug and play, and lovely sound (it’s comparatively modest compared to my digital path, so that’s my reference re: enjoyment)

When I want to upgrade, I will buy a better Clearaudio cartridge as a start (their MM cartidges range from $250 - $2,000)

I’ve had it for about five years. If I decide to do a serious upgrade (say $10 - $15k), now I have some experience to guide me. I am glad I kept it to $2,500 on the first experiment. Why spend $15k on a first turntable? I would not have had any frame of reference. Now I do. My pre has a good phono stage for a TT in this price range

Just what worked for me - one could do the same with any number of TT brands. At that price range, my guess is everything “sounds good”. Get some experience first, then up the budget

I am glad I kept it simple, and can spend my time listening to music. I am glad I did not spend much time making the decisions

Keep it simple, and start listening this weekend

Let us know what you decide!

Have a great day

@jonwatches1 that is sort of what I was thinking: that there would be some learning I could get from a cheaper system that I could put to use when I make the longer term, much larger investment. A lot of good info in this thread though!

I have two turntable suggestions, both of which already come with a pre mounted cartridge, and both of which I own. The first is the Music Hall MMF-7.3 with Ortofon 2M Bronze, the second is the Avid Ingenium plug & play with a unbadged Rega carbon. 

The Music Hall is a very well designed turntable that sounds magnificent. Electronic speed change via the outboard motor, a carbon fiber 9" tonearm (9cc), acrylic platter driven by a round belt, threaded spindle with screw on record clamp, two plinth design, tip-toe feet, and includes both a dustcover and quality interconnects. Not to mention a beautiful walnut finish (available in gloss black for cheaper). The walnut version is about $1800. 

The Avid plug and play Ingenium is a skeletal design that is built like a tank. It has an MDF platter driven by an external motor assembly. The tonearm is the Rega RB 110, with, as mentioned, an unbadged Rega carbon attached and aligned. Avid Is known to abide to the theory that the turntable itself is more important than the cartridge installed to achieve the best sound. In other words, you do not have to have an ultra expensive cartridge installed to achieve great sound. The Avid Ingenium  uses a titanium ball bearing which rides on a sapphire bearing, the same as the more expensive Avid models. The turntable oozes quality build. It can be had for about $2100, but i got mine new for $1800. 

As far as a phono stage, I also have two to recommend, two of which I also own. The first is the Tavish Design the Classic, the second is the Pro-ject tube box DS2. Both are tube preamps. I run NOS tubes in the Tavish with great results. The tube box DS2 has a front mounted knob to adjust moving coil load on the fly. The Tavish is about $800, the pro-ject is about $1000 with the wood side panels, otherwise about $800. So, for about $3000 total outlay, you can have a very nice analog set up. 

I owned a Rega P3 for about a year and felt I needed more out of my turntable. I ended up going with a Clearaudio Performance DC and never looked back. That was a night and day improvement. Best of luck. 

It seems you WILL stick with Vinyl (i.e. not a novice just curious who might try and not stick with it).

I’m 73, after many steps I ended up with a TT with 3 tonearms, 3 cartridges ready to instantly swap back and forth in a single listening session, all adjustments/alignments already done.

I’m currently helping a friend upgrade to a single arm TT.

I would limit my arm choice to a removable headshell. If arm comes with TT, limit TT choice to removable headshell.

Next, start with a darn good but not too expensive MM (moving magnet) Cartridge. Definitely not a cheap or used cartridge.

AT 540ML is an excellent start at a great price. Advanced Microlinear Stylus shape.

Wide separation and tight channel balance combine to help imaging be more precisely revealed.

later if you move on to MC (moving coil) and/or more expensive cartridges (in their own headshells, ready to interchange) , the 540 will still be great to play favorite, fun, but not sonically great LP’s.

. That avoids needlessly adding wear to a costly non-replaceable stylus. I use the prior 440 version for that. Eventually you might want a MONO cartridge, again pre-mounted, ready to go. I would start out with a highly favored but not too expensive Phono stage. There is a lot of love here for Schiitt gear. Get there by not too costly pieces, then if/when you move up the chain, you will have less reluctance. ............. Next, we have the very important alignment of tonearm and cartridge. Success depends on alignment, the best and most exspensive setup will not sound good unless alignment is correct. You start with zero skills I suspect, so the initial setup needs to be by the factory, seller, experienced friend, or you buy a cheap toy cartridge and learn/practice on an unimportant LP, then mount your real cartridge. A few inexpensive tools are needed to align a cartridge. You will benefit all your life if you acquire the skills and tools to do it yourself. I found and my friend just purchased this Linear Tracking TT. Some, like this, allow ’real’ headshells and ’real’ cartridges, whereas most linear use lightweight arms and lightweight P mount cartridges which is less preferred. I use one of those in my garage/shop system. Linear is much easier to align, there is no anti-skating force/adjustment; and no null points to align. Mitsubishi LT-22 https://www.ebay.com/itm/175178913701 An LT-20 is for sale, serviced, ready to go https://www.ebay.com/itm/403574581130?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=1d23cc20-b0f2-11ec-81f6-613737316664 I know how to change the belts (easy) so I would also consider this LT-30 https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649842857-for-repair-mitsubishi-lt-30-linear-tracking-turntable/ If your setup benefits from a Vertical TT (like my office)the Vertical Version, LT-5V. It is belt drive, the horizontal versions are quartz locked direct drive, my preference in my main system. here you see belts, dust covers, parts and several are for sale https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=mitsubishi+lt-5v https://www.vinylengine.com/library/mitsubishi/lt-5v.shtml ......................... you can see my systems here https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9511

I’m not pushing my choices, just concepts and only equipment I have personal experience with

links repeated

LT-22 I just found for my friend (scroll down)

vertical LT-5V

hifishark, LT-5V, parts are available

LT-20 for sale

my systems, TTs shown here

@clearthinker I wasn't making blanket statement with digital vs. analog, just directed solely at my present setups. What you suggest I do has been often contemplated by me. Which brings to mind another factor is starting vinyl setup from scratch. I purchased vast majority of my records back in 80's at record shows and used record stores, I don't recall ever paying much more than $10, often $5 or less for these albums. Last time I went through some of my albums to determine values, I discovered some hot stampers and other rather rare albums, in some cases value was into the $100's. Since this was a few years ago, I'd expect values have only gone up, When I think in this manner it would seem a no-brainer to sell off entire collection and vinyl setup. At this point 50/50 as to whether I do this or not.

This also brings to mind that starting vinyl setup from scratch these days would be a no go for me. Between inflation and far more sophisticated vinyl market where record values easily determined, it would be far too costly for me.

Another aspect of digital vs. analog that favors digital to my way of thinking is access to far more music with streaming vs. vinyl, the very reason I've concentrated on digital upgrades vs analog. While $3k+ albums seems like a large collection, it pales in comparison to streaming. Also, the storage of these albums is a bear, I've got albums stashed all over my house, simply takes up too much physical space in listening room to have more than perhaps one quarter of them at the ready for playing. I just may have talked myself out of maintaining this mass 🤔

But then, there is the nostalgic factor and the nice cover  and gatefold art. Also, having actual physical media gives one a feeling of ownership, real intrinsic value. https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/10/24/the-psychology-behind-why-we-value-physical-objects-over-digital/

Real helpful when the "experts" here say you've got to spend $15,000 to get started in vinyl.  My suggestion: get the Rega P3 with a Rega cartridge, build up a record collection, THEN think about a TT/cart upgrade.  Unless you are a gear junkie, the vinyl software should always be more important than the hardware.

@sns 

"But then, there is the nostalgic factor and the nice cover  and gatefold art. Also, having actual physical media gives one a feeling of ownership, real intrinsic value."

That's the heart talking!  I thought so!

Yes, I'm lucky I don't have to start from scratch.  And quality of old pressings is very often better than current ones, a lot of poor vinyl used now.  But if a youngster is into vinyl now there is a lifetime to build a collection.

My collection is similar to yours - more than 3000 pieces, built up since the early 1960s, some really valuable items now, very nostalgic.  Will never part while I have ears.

I also think 'new' music is mostly over-rated.  Unlike many here, I don't listen to much new stuff and what I do I usually don't keep.  Kinda puts me off streaming.

Introducing vinyl playback can lead to substantial expense.  My first action would be to upgrade the digital playback.  Put the CDs on a NAS (with SSD) and get a recent streamer/DAC (eg Meitner MA3).  If still wanting vinyl playback be aware in addition to the familiar cartridge technology (MM, MI, MC, strain gauge) there is affordable optical from DS Audio, https://www.ds-audio-w.biz/ds003/

I have used a Well Tempered TT/TA for 35 years and only now am considering replacing it. Not many products give lasting satisfaction like that. Give them a look. One thing about theirs is I have never had a static pop in all those years. Before, with LP12 and SOTA Sapphires it was a constant wintertime struggle. Stressless analog is good!

To get really good, satisfying, enjoyable vinyl playback needn’t be expensive.

I have 18 turntables, all legacy designs. I have 130 vintage cartridges. I have 5,000 LPs.

Anyone who says you must spend $2K+ on a table, $2K+ on a cartridge, $2K+ on a phono pre,  $2K+ on a record cleaner, is high as a kite!

A vintage table of $400, a vintage cart of $200, hand cleaning your records, and using the built-in phono pre of a competent $300 vintage receiver is all you need to reap full enjoyment from a collection of vinyl.

Don’t overthink or over spend this. It just isn’t necessary.

I suggest Technics 1200GR/G is a good place to start. Technics is often overlooked but I think you will spend almost double the $4k cost to even start to take the 1200G down. The 1200GR is said to be 85% the sonic qualities of the G. And this is out of the box...should you need a Jelco or SME arm, there are readily available adapters for that. The motors on these tables outclass everything on your list.

I own the 1200G and it will be my last table. I also considered all the tables on your list. Nothing wrong with them. But, in-person, the Technics looks and feels very credible (an understatement).

I will say this: you want control of ALL the setup parameters (including anti-skate, VTA and Azimuth). These are very easy, precise and repeatable on all Technics turntables. Also I believe a good gimbal pivot is less fussy, more reliable and generally the preferred way to conduct a tonearm. The quality of bearings in just the standard SL1200 mk2 surpasses most turntables in its class. The new gimbals are better.

The suggestion for AT540ML cartridge is a good one for a first MM. The AT33PTGII is a good MC starting point.

I can also recommend the Hagerman Trumpet MC phono stage for MC carts. Read up on this stage before buying another. It will play MM but probably not the best match for AT MMs.

There are also a growing range of Energizers that are produced by Third Party designers, which is encouraged by DS Audio to be produced.

There are a growing amount of reports that make some of the quite affordable third party devices seem like a very attractive option.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it is now possible to use a DS Audio E1 with a energizer from a third party for approx’ $2000ish dollars.

There are a large amount of Cart's without a Phonostage that can go onto a shortlist that will exceed this price fourfold. 

I too prefer the direct drive route, tried a number of belt drives over the years, always left me wanting for slam, drive. If you can handle diy route, one can put together very nice setup starting with Technics SP10 MkII, and really for pennies on the dollar if you're judicious with choices and have maker skills.

I'll maintain it cost bucks to build entire top flight analog setup. Diy tt route, various Denon 103 modified cartridges will help keep costs down, $2-3K phono stages don't do it for me.

The issue with analog is once you've attained highly resolving and natural sounding digital setup, cost of analog exponentially goes up. Digital incurs major costs attaining analog like flavor, analog incurs major costs attaining best digital resolution.

for any novice wanting to TRY VINYL, find out if you will stick with it or not: this is a very easy and affordable start

AT120 with built-in OPTIONAL phono EQ. I had one for years, and surprisingly preferred it’s built-in optional phono to my McIntosh C28’s phono. Preferred it to Cambridge Duo.

here’s a very nice used one

1st thing, upgrade the cartridge, my former recommendation, AT540ml pre-mounted in a headshell. Microline Stylus shape.

That $600. combo is definitely good enough to reveal VINYL in a positive enough sound to ascertain if you will get hooked, then move up.

@sandthemall intrigued by the hagerman. I am all tubes in the pre, power stages I read a review that seems to say the hagerman might be too "tubey"?

@saulh

I have the Hagerman Trumpet as well. I have a feeling you read the Mikey Fremer review. To be honest, I think Mikey botched that review. Seems he really didn’t take it too seriously.

Is it too ‘tubey’? Perhaps, with the stock Mullards installed. But still sounds good. I first replaced the 12ax7 Mullards with new Genalex Gold Lion gold pins, and that leaned things out and provided better detail overall…..then found some NOS Dynaco branded Telefunken smooth plates, and they improved the Gold Lions by a fair degree with more smoothness and refinement.

Nice thing about a tube pre, you can change the sonics per your desire.

The Hagerman Trumpet MC is a steal IMO.

I use a Tube Input / Output Phon' with a few SUT's and loan a Head Amp for periods as a friend has built a variety of guises of these designs.

The Tubes used are Very Early Mullard's, matched on both sides and as a pair.

The selection of the Tubes was from a tube rolling/demonstration experience arranged for me to take part in, that was great fun, as well as indelible for what was learnt about a impact of a tube type on a circuit.

My experiences with trying different SUT's in Comparisons,  is that each has its own sonic traits and the ones I have experienced are reasonably easy to detect the changes on offer.

Comparing a SUT to a Head Amp, in my experiences has shown a SUT used in my system, has a hint of richness which in comparison to the Head Amp, I would say the SUT has a colouration, but not a detracting one.

The Head Amp in my system is Transparent and can be tweaked to accentuate certain sections of the frequency range.

My preferred design of the Head Amp to date, is the one that lets a tight Gut Thumping Bass Note to be delivered.  This type of device does not have the delicacy that can be an attractor on a SUT.

With this Head Amp the Helicopter in the Track 'We don't need no education' landed in my listening room 😎

Very recently I was invited to receive a demonstration of a Phasemation E 350 which was carried out in a System I know very well and has a Phon' that is produced to a very similar build to my own one, it also has the same Valve Selection as mine.

Both were used with a selection of SUT's and a Phasemation Degauss was carried out between exchanges of SUT's.

The E 350 was totally at home in the company it was up against, and this was with only an hour or so usage prior to being demo'd.

I would really like to hear it with a 500 hour usage time behind it.

I am sure the group at the demo' would recommend the SS Phon' and even encourage somebody to offer it a place in their system.        

Rega 6, PS Audio Phono, Grado cart……If I were to buy an mid-price rig.  Don’t forget the phono cable which will be the most important interconnect in your system.

Re: Hagerman Trumpet MC

I also am ’tubed up’ with a Don Sachs 6SN7 tube preamp and a Primaluna Evo 400 power amp and I didn’t find the Hagerman to be ’tubey’ even with the stock tubes. I did insert NOS tubes as well: Mazda + RCA clear tops.

In the past, I have had noise driving MC carts even with an outboard power supply. But not with the Hagerman.

Once I got used to digital, it was very difficult to go back to listening scratchy sound and diminished dynamic range on my Linn Sondek LP12 + SME 3009R + Nagaoka MP500 + Schiit Mani phono stage.

Even tho I consider my tt system to be decent, I find myself listening to digital more and more because of clean sound, convenience and its great dynamic headroom.

Many people here will disagree with me but vinyl is inherently inferior since it is impossible to store a wider dynamic range on it due to the limitation of the medium itself. Necessity of the RIAA equalizers in phono preamps are the proof of this.

But.... if you are dead set on it, I would recommend a DD table like a Technics, an MM cartridge like Ortofon black, Goldring or Nagaoka and a reasonable phono preamp. MM cartridges are more convenient since you can replace the stylus.  Belt driven tables are nice but a hassle in the long run. There is no need to spend any more on any analog gear since you will not hear any improvement in sound and it will not be worth spending any more on more expensive analog gear.

@cakyol

LOL! I just transitioned from digital to analog! I would have to agree with you that most people will enjoy digital more than analog, especially with analog rigs costing less than $7-10k; however, at the top end, analog is much, much superior in musical quality and enjoyment.

Start with a MC cartridge that costs $2k+, and you’ll begin to hear the differences, but for cartridges less than $2k, I would have to agree with you that digital will be much more superior in sound quality. 

Just wanted to say thanks to this community. I learned so much here and appreciate you guys sharing with a guy new to all of this!

@saulh Hi Saul, I have just seen I did not reply to your suggestion of using a Okki Nokki Device for cleaning records.

A machine is a convenience, I have a DIY design Ultrasonic Bath and a Motor unit to control the LPs during the clean cycle all in cost approx' £200.

I also have cleaning solutions prepared  and the consumables for a manual cleaning method, as advised by Neil Antin in his document produced for Vinyl LP Cleaning.   

I have the manual method down to about 10 minutes a LP when done as batch of Six, when LP Number Six is complete LP's One and Two are dry and good to go into a New Inner Sleeve, or be played and the given their New Sleeve.

The Manual Method has produced such good results, I am wed to it, I have not even set the US Tank up to be used for the final rinse only as I intended, as the results are so impressive from the manual clean method.  

@pindac intriguing. Your post made me do some research. Maybe this Vevor Ultrasonic Vinyl Record Cleaner will do the trick for $200. 

Page 120 of the Link will get you to see very good information about US Tank Cleaning and the Hz that deal with certain Particle Sizes.

I do believe there is also information about the best place for the Transducer which is bottom mounted.

There are lots of user reports on DIY US Tanks along with others that have used Branded Purpose produced models.

It is a large document so best to be read in small proportions and take notes to try and remember some of the key points.

Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records - The Vinyl Press

@cakyol 

I think it can be helpful not to get wrapped up in the analog / digital debate.  They both can be excellent media, and appreciated for their differences!  (I just demonstrated this to myself by listening to the same performance of Gilels playing Beethoven's Piano Concertos on both CD and LP today, and with two different cartridges on the LP.)  

It is difficult to avoid the discussion and the debate that can follow when a Source with a certain type of Medium used to store recorded music  is exchanged for another.

It is regularly seen between CDP > CDT users and Streamers, the idea of recording the CD Medium in to File is regularly suggested, along with how a certain configuration for a streaming set up will be noticeably advanced in SQ over the older methods employed.

These Two methods are commonly seen to be used, to suggest there is enough on offer from these medium types to abandon the use of a Vinyl LP as a medium. 

This is most likely because in many cases, there has been a movement away from using one recorded music medium, to another method of replaying music, where only one medium for storing music is used to produce the replays, and the strengths of the forgotten medium are not able to be recollected.

Those who maintain additional options on the Source used, can replay music recordings using the most typical methods, and are not usually challenging the weaknesses/strengths of each Source selected.

The usual outcome is that the Source in use, is embraced for the strengths and the variation on offer from the use of it.  The maintained increased options, that enable an individual to listen to replays through a different medium and device is typically  seen as an asset and a welcome addition to a system.

I have had this experience myself, I class myself as new to digital, and was not for many years 'wed' to the CD presentation through the devices I had encountered. Today this has changed, I have a Two Source Front End, and can not see a reason to abandon the Analogue One for the Digital Other. I am even slowly working through my options to have a streaming set up as a Source, and occasionally have set up a demonstration of a streaming source to assess the method. 

Prior to this I had very similar wresting with MM > MC, I moved on to MC and had all kinds of description in place to Justify the reasoning for the move over. The same for the follow up exchanges of Phonostages. Today I have simplified it, in my Vinyl LP Source.  I have the equipment at hand to enable a MC's or MM's and even a Ceramic to be used with very little effort needed.     

I do get the sense that when an individual completely separates from one Source to another Source as their only method to replay, there is a cornerstone put in place that will be the need to justify the reasoning for the change made.  

If a long term user of the Vinyl LP is separating from Analogue replays, along with the Long Term Memories of their Vinyl collection and interactions with others during the building of the Vinyl LP Collection. This can create a wresting condition and any person that did separate, has felt the need to justify their choice made, which can sometimes come across as being critical of the Vinyl LP Medium, when the description for the reasons behind the change that has been made is offered. 

I have reached a very interesting place in the analog vs CD, playing files, and streaming. They all sound virtually the same… and better than I have ever heard any of them. This has been a truly great revelation. How?

All my equipment is made by the same company… Audio Research… very importantly the phono stage and DAC… but also the preamp and amp. My turntable (Linn LP12) has a very carefully chosen cartridge (Koetsu Rosewood signature) to match my musical taste and my streamer (Aurender W20SE) to be extremely detailed and natural sounding. The result is the character of the sound is identical. I just upgraded my turntable with a top of the line arm and sub chassis. The character did not change… but the level of detail increased.

Think about this! What this says is the character of what you hear is primarily the result of the signal chain, not the source media. If you think about it, it makes sense as well. It appeared otherwise historically for a very long time because of the inability to build digital equipment to optimize some part of the digital path. But that is no longer true.

I am not inclined to profundities, but this is profound. It also points to digital streaming… because if it is only a matter of getting your components right to get the sound right… then you get a nearly infinite library with almost no cost and don’t have to collect physical disks. Unless, you like to fiddle with physical median.

@ghdprentice  I couldn't agree more! While I'm not at point where my vinyl setup on par with streaming and cd rips, I do hear the convergence as painstaking work on my digital setup has provided much more analog like sound quality. My take is greatest expenditures for digital is spent achieving analog like sound qualities, greatest for analog is resolving capabilities.

My take for those running both analog and digital setups is your audio costs have just gone up exponentially. There will be long battle in one upsmanship between the two, you listen to your vinyl setup, love the ease and luxury, want to replicate that with your digital, love the resolving capabilities of your digital, want to replicate that with your vinyl.

I had a cut off point with my Power Amp's many years past. There is not an Amp I need to try and surpass them. I am not suggesting they are unsurpassable, I am content in not expressing any interest in attempting to discover an amp worthy of a replacement role.

I am almost at this place with the Pre Amp, a bespoke built Dual Mono Pre is being produced for me with the schematic fundamentals based on a popular design. There is not another Pre, I will consider owning after this one is built, if I want a different flavour, I have a Valve Pre for added Bloom and a Slagle AVC for the impact this can have on the SQ.

I do not see much to be achieved with the Vinyl Front End, after many years of various motor drive TT's, I have settled for a DD TT, the ancillaries used with this are keepers, the Phon' > Tonearm are going nowhere and I hope the Cart' is able to be serviced as and when required.  

The CDT > DAC totally suits my needs and even though the two devices are not  commonly seen in the UK, they have found a synergy that is very attractive.    Owners of well respected CD set ups that have received demonstrations have been very impressed with what has been assembled. As I am very inexperienced with CD Replays, I seem to get itchy feet, and want to try something new, the grass being greener sought of attitude.

I am fortunate to have a Dealership not too far from  my home  supplying Jay's Audio and Denafrips, I have restrained from car tyre kicking on their premises.