The best way to start adding A=analog to my system


When I started this hobby, I never thought I would need a turntable, so I didn’t think about phono stages etc. That changed with a recent listening session. Vinyl just sounds better to me so now I am trying to figure out where I need to spend, where I can go cheap for the moment. Should I balance all parts at the same level or begin with one great piece and gradually upgrade around it?

For context, my current system has:

Blumenhofer Genuin FS2 speakers, Art Audio PX-25 power, Audio Research SP16L pre-amp. I have a Ayre Cx5 CD player/DAC and an MD-90 tuner.

For turntables, I have auditioned Pro-Jects Xtension 9, Rega P3 and the Clearaudio Concept. I am planning to listen to the Clearaudio Performance next and based on what I have read and heard, I think that may be the answer. but that is a $2k step up in price. Part of me is thinking just get the better table and maybe the Tracer arm and start with cheaper cartridge/stage for now, vs matching things that are more within budget and then having to change everything later.

What makes the most sense?

saulh

Showing 9 responses by pindac

This is great news that you have approx’ a quarter of a Cartridges Life (if all goes tickety-boo) in source material to replay.

One more suggestion, if you can have a small selection correctly cleaned LP's, and compare the impact of the cleaned vs un-cleaned on the stylus, there may be enough evidence to convince you the collection could be a candidate for a little TLC.

Methods employed that improves the condition and cleanliness of the LP, will create an ideal interface for the Stylus and this ’should’ also produce an extended usage life for it.

It is a better equation financially when replays are extended with the usage life of a Cartridge.

A $800 Cart’ as 600 hrs of usage prior to needing to be changed is $1.33 per whole album as a rough average, @ 1200 hrs of usage prior to needing to be exchanged the replay is $0.66 per whole album as a rough average.

Some the places where you might be looking to be offered a demonstration of a TT, might be able to offer a cleaning service for a selection of TT’s whilst you are at the premises.

The disciplines that can be adopted in conjunction with LP Analogue Replays, has a few extra needs to be considered and time made for.

 

The size of your collection of LP's is not made known, if there is the need to create a LP Collection, this can quickly create a cost that is quite substantial.

Buying Cheap Vinyl can get one a large collection speedily, but the enjoyment of the vinyl experience and replaying LP's can cause disturbing concerns for the stylus if the source materials is noticeably imperfect. 

If a collection is desired to be owned, as a start place I would suggest a selection of New or Used  VGC Condition LP's from your preferred performers are purchased and experienced with some of the TT's that are being considered for your TT Set Up.

If the Albums are familiar to you in another medium, then the impact of them being replayed as an LP, will be identifiable.

Once the level of playback quality for the vinyl is established, a estimate of the  quantity of vinyl that would like to be collected can then be budgeted for.

This will assist with getting a grasp on the estimated total a new TT set up and LP collection can accumulate to.

There are most commonly Belt Drive and Direct Drive TT's available as New Models, each has their own fan clubs. To broaden the experience, it might be worthwhile experiencing each drive type as part of a pre-purchase investigation...

   

There are also a growing range of Energizers that are produced by Third Party designers, which is encouraged by DS Audio to be produced.

There are a growing amount of reports that make some of the quite affordable third party devices seem like a very attractive option.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it is now possible to use a DS Audio E1 with a energizer from a third party for approx’ $2000ish dollars.

There are a large amount of Cart's without a Phonostage that can go onto a shortlist that will exceed this price fourfold. 

I use a Tube Input / Output Phon' with a few SUT's and loan a Head Amp for periods as a friend has built a variety of guises of these designs.

The Tubes used are Very Early Mullard's, matched on both sides and as a pair.

The selection of the Tubes was from a tube rolling/demonstration experience arranged for me to take part in, that was great fun, as well as indelible for what was learnt about a impact of a tube type on a circuit.

My experiences with trying different SUT's in Comparisons,  is that each has its own sonic traits and the ones I have experienced are reasonably easy to detect the changes on offer.

Comparing a SUT to a Head Amp, in my experiences has shown a SUT used in my system, has a hint of richness which in comparison to the Head Amp, I would say the SUT has a colouration, but not a detracting one.

The Head Amp in my system is Transparent and can be tweaked to accentuate certain sections of the frequency range.

My preferred design of the Head Amp to date, is the one that lets a tight Gut Thumping Bass Note to be delivered.  This type of device does not have the delicacy that can be an attractor on a SUT.

With this Head Amp the Helicopter in the Track 'We don't need no education' landed in my listening room 😎

Very recently I was invited to receive a demonstration of a Phasemation E 350 which was carried out in a System I know very well and has a Phon' that is produced to a very similar build to my own one, it also has the same Valve Selection as mine.

Both were used with a selection of SUT's and a Phasemation Degauss was carried out between exchanges of SUT's.

The E 350 was totally at home in the company it was up against, and this was with only an hour or so usage prior to being demo'd.

I would really like to hear it with a 500 hour usage time behind it.

I am sure the group at the demo' would recommend the SS Phon' and even encourage somebody to offer it a place in their system.        

@saulh Hi Saul, I have just seen I did not reply to your suggestion of using a Okki Nokki Device for cleaning records.

A machine is a convenience, I have a DIY design Ultrasonic Bath and a Motor unit to control the LPs during the clean cycle all in cost approx' £200.

I also have cleaning solutions prepared  and the consumables for a manual cleaning method, as advised by Neil Antin in his document produced for Vinyl LP Cleaning.   

I have the manual method down to about 10 minutes a LP when done as batch of Six, when LP Number Six is complete LP's One and Two are dry and good to go into a New Inner Sleeve, or be played and the given their New Sleeve.

The Manual Method has produced such good results, I am wed to it, I have not even set the US Tank up to be used for the final rinse only as I intended, as the results are so impressive from the manual clean method.  

Page 120 of the Link will get you to see very good information about US Tank Cleaning and the Hz that deal with certain Particle Sizes.

I do believe there is also information about the best place for the Transducer which is bottom mounted.

There are lots of user reports on DIY US Tanks along with others that have used Branded Purpose produced models.

It is a large document so best to be read in small proportions and take notes to try and remember some of the key points.

Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records - The Vinyl Press

 

 

It is difficult to avoid the discussion and the debate that can follow when a Source with a certain type of Medium used to store recorded music  is exchanged for another.

It is regularly seen between CDP > CDT users and Streamers, the idea of recording the CD Medium in to File is regularly suggested, along with how a certain configuration for a streaming set up will be noticeably advanced in SQ over the older methods employed.

These Two methods are commonly seen to be used, to suggest there is enough on offer from these medium types to abandon the use of a Vinyl LP as a medium. 

This is most likely because in many cases, there has been a movement away from using one recorded music medium, to another method of replaying music, where only one medium for storing music is used to produce the replays, and the strengths of the forgotten medium are not able to be recollected.

Those who maintain additional options on the Source used, can replay music recordings using the most typical methods, and are not usually challenging the weaknesses/strengths of each Source selected.

The usual outcome is that the Source in use, is embraced for the strengths and the variation on offer from the use of it.  The maintained increased options, that enable an individual to listen to replays through a different medium and device is typically  seen as an asset and a welcome addition to a system.

I have had this experience myself, I class myself as new to digital, and was not for many years 'wed' to the CD presentation through the devices I had encountered. Today this has changed, I have a Two Source Front End, and can not see a reason to abandon the Analogue One for the Digital Other. I am even slowly working through my options to have a streaming set up as a Source, and occasionally have set up a demonstration of a streaming source to assess the method. 

Prior to this I had very similar wresting with MM > MC, I moved on to MC and had all kinds of description in place to Justify the reasoning for the move over. The same for the follow up exchanges of Phonostages. Today I have simplified it, in my Vinyl LP Source.  I have the equipment at hand to enable a MC's or MM's and even a Ceramic to be used with very little effort needed.     

I do get the sense that when an individual completely separates from one Source to another Source as their only method to replay, there is a cornerstone put in place that will be the need to justify the reasoning for the change made.  

If a long term user of the Vinyl LP is separating from Analogue replays, along with the Long Term Memories of their Vinyl collection and interactions with others during the building of the Vinyl LP Collection. This can create a wresting condition and any person that did separate, has felt the need to justify their choice made, which can sometimes come across as being critical of the Vinyl LP Medium, when the description for the reasons behind the change that has been made is offered. 

       

I had a cut off point with my Power Amp's many years past. There is not an Amp I need to try and surpass them. I am not suggesting they are unsurpassable, I am content in not expressing any interest in attempting to discover an amp worthy of a replacement role.

I am almost at this place with the Pre Amp, a bespoke built Dual Mono Pre is being produced for me with the schematic fundamentals based on a popular design. There is not another Pre, I will consider owning after this one is built, if I want a different flavour, I have a Valve Pre for added Bloom and a Slagle AVC for the impact this can have on the SQ.

I do not see much to be achieved with the Vinyl Front End, after many years of various motor drive TT's, I have settled for a DD TT, the ancillaries used with this are keepers, the Phon' > Tonearm are going nowhere and I hope the Cart' is able to be serviced as and when required.  

The CDT > DAC totally suits my needs and even though the two devices are not  commonly seen in the UK, they have found a synergy that is very attractive.    Owners of well respected CD set ups that have received demonstrations have been very impressed with what has been assembled. As I am very inexperienced with CD Replays, I seem to get itchy feet, and want to try something new, the grass being greener sought of attitude.

I am fortunate to have a Dealership not too far from  my home  supplying Jay's Audio and Denafrips, I have restrained from car tyre kicking on their premises.   

 

4--tonearm/internal wiring. similar to the turntable, the tonearm is an ancillary component that in terms of sound quality works best when you don't experience anything from it at all;

The Tonearm has two functions,  which is both as a mechanical device and supply a means to transfer an electrical signal generated from the Cartridges Operation. The Main Purpose of the Tonearm apart from be a device to mount a Cartridge on to, is for the Tonearm to function in a manner that enables the Cartridges mechanical operation to function without impediments that will impact on the critical movements. There are numerous designs for the Tonearm and all will to some extent be an impediment to the Cartridges mechanical function.

How the Tonearm has a design to manage transferral of energies are quite varied as well, but in general all Brands, Models and Designs are not equal.

The other purpose of the Tonearm where it is supplying a means to transfer the electrical signal generated within the Cartridge, also has quite an important consideration, as an incorrect wire choice and configuration for the wire within the Tonearm can impede the mechanical function of the Tonearm and present a resistive force to the required freedom of movement. The quality of the cable and cable connections for being able to transfer a unadulterated signal is a more difficult subject to broach on and this will be adopted mainly and accepted as the chosen method that is supplied by the Manufacturer.  There are some who change the supplied method and produce their own bespoke methods.

5--interconnects. the difference between wirings seems overblown; 

My experience has shown that there are benefits to be had by having tried out a selection of Signal Wire Types and Cable Designs in a system.

The choice for connectors used on the Cable and the Chassis is also a worthwhile consideration.

If the connections are causing a loss of the complete signal being transferred, the signal loss will arrive as a sound at some stage, and it can be detected as a smearing to the details.  The more information that can be delivered on time, the more the detail of the envelope of a note and vocal is present and detectable.

I'm sure the description offered will be challenged for the suggestion the  impact of the connections on a Cable, but when the changes in detail retrieval are detected, and the method used are seen to be responsible for the impact being made, there are not too many descriptions left to explain what is being perceived.