The best TT system for under 30K

Cartridge: You might also consider Soundsmith. The owner gives talks and makes a lot of sense (Peter Ledermann). Some knowledgeable people speak very highly of his products.

@uwiikz,

I am with terry9 on ‘don’t buy used cartridges’. You just never know how others have handled the cart. Being a newbie, you don’t want the headache if it is working or sound they way it should.

If you’re going to be playing with carts, then I highly recommend couple of must have accessories,

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076DFZDS4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ERPWAK2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://highend-electronics.com/products/nasotec-tweezers

https://elusivedisc.com/vinyl-center-hole-reamer/

https://www.amazon.com/Last-Stylus-Cleaner-Stylast-Pkg/dp/B004XDTUS8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1ULTQI4R9GR51&a...

https://www.amazon.com/KAIU-Vinyl-Record-Stylus-Cleaning/dp/B088M9Z2P3/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywo...

And remember, no LP goes on spinning platter until it’s cleaned, even the new ones! Your investment in RCM shouldn’t be a afterthought. Welcome to world of analog 😊

Cartridge: Disclaimer - I have no recent experience with inexpensive cartridges. But, you fell in love with Miyajima - do they sell an inexpensive one? I have heard and read good things about the Nagaoka line, it is or was the factory recommendation for a good line of turntables. What does your dealer say?

Don’t buy used!!! Except from your dealer or another trusted source. Not until you have more experience.

May I also suggest an inexpensive alignment protractor, and an inexpensive torque screwdriver? Even an experienced user can tighten one side of the cartridge much more than the other - at least, I have. But not with a torque screwdriver.

You don’t have to use the stuff right away, or even ever. Just having it around will help. Imagine using it, get a friend or dealer to show you how, eventually install a $50 cartridge several times. Use it on a record that you don’t value much. And if you never do use the setup equipment, so what? One of my audio friends with a higher end system (but not quite where you are) won’t even think about it. His friends do it for him, and gladly.

Good luck and good listening.

Dear @uwiikz :  These are good alternatives for your " learning cartridge. The Windfeld is an ecellent performer at an ecellent price, it can challenge easy the one you bougth with the Kuzma TT:


https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa51dg-kuzma-car-40-cartridges

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa5791-dynavector-karat-17dx-brand-new-cartridges

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa7gii-ortofon-mc-windfeld-brand-new-cartridges

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa8869-ortofon-cadenza-bronze-cartridges

R.

@best-groove, I absolutely do not agree. Further, I think that what you wrote is mean-spirited. When you audition and audition and fall in love with something, that's probably real. And now the OP has said that he's going to practice on an inexpensive cartridge - what could be more sensible than that? Hardly a matter for condescension. IMO.

@uwiikz,

I recommend picking up Hana S ($750) or M ($1200) moving coil cartridges. They both are great sounding cartridges that wouldn’t mind keeping it around.

get the Kuzma and the Technics sp10R.  Then you will be covered for belt drive and direct drive.

But when I see a person willing to spend $30k on one turntable alone, without knowing much about analog and being a victim of the high-end propaganda, I think it’s some sort of illness. Looking for a cartridges at $5000-8000 price tag as a started is definitely not right. Don’t let them rip you off. In fact you can buy so many cartridges, tonearms, turntables for $30k instead of one, so it’s the only way to understand, there is not such things as "best" for everyone, you can only try and compare yourself.

@chakster
I also smile when people jump straight to a top of the class without having accumulated experience in small steps.
It’s like entrusting a Lamborghini to a newbie who has just obtained his driving license ... sooner or later it will crash.  LOL

I saw this website Degritter, supposed to be good and “only” $3000 for the whole set and made specifically for record cleaning. 

I use Audio Intelligent three step cleaning routine with Archivist as the second step. Sometimes I also use precleaner, #15, I guess. Maybe I should try the Walker next time. But I don't use ultrasonic machine, I slave it thru with Okki Nokki. Not as good as US but still quite good. Takes a lot of time and I soak with each solution before rinsing twice with distilled water. No, I could not hear the difference between once and twice rinsed records but I still do it.

@chakster , I personally do not have problem with dealer doing big mark up as long as it’s staying within comparison to other dealers/staying within the scope of international RRP then all is good in my book. Everyone needs to make a living and decent one considering the investment made by retailers/dealers. One cannot compare “normal” profit margin for somebody selling potato and rice to somebody selling high end audio, potato and rice sells multiple time in a day and high end dealers are lucky to sell one gear in a day while both businesses model still have the same overhead to cover. I think it’s normal and justifiable if high end audio dealers are making 50-70% profit (they do get big discounts from factory) and I think it’s normal for somebody selling potato and rice to make 5%-10% profit. Again, all are my personal opinion which might worth something and might be worthless.

You have a great attitude. People drive themselves crazy agonizing when it never does any good. Especially not with turntables where everything in your price range is freaking amazing, spellbinding, and let's face it  impossible to beat other than with experienced tweakery. By which I mean things like the table/rack, which you already know. Then when you figure out your cartridge and phono stage, the magic gets even more, er, magical.

With cleaners, the best I know is the Walker Enzyme 4 Step. This was recommended to me by Tom Port at Better-records.com easily the best sounding records on Earth and it sure seems to be the best cleaning system, what're the odds? 

@terry9 , I did some research on your recommendation on the ultrasonic cleaner... damn I want that, all in or all out right? For the meantime I am looking for cheaper cartridge to learn with, care to suggest? Not looking to spend more than $1500 for the “learning phase” cartridge and perhaps on this case I’ll heed to the “buy used” suggestion suggested by @chakster . 

@chakster , you really need to lighten up. And that paragraph about a $3K used machine outperforming the big Kuzma is a matter for medication.

I agree, a good decision. Good luck!

@chackster
You have nice gear. But wow it's interesting your take on business. Do you not markup a record you press or resell? Is that not part of your business? Or a cartridge you resell?

LOL! Folks take it easy. All good here, I don’t feel ripped off at all by my purchase. I can appreciate good product. I used to be a canvassing salesman many years ago and my ex boss have a saying that I will never forget, he said “salesman can lie but price tag will never lie” meaning good products are usually expensive and cheap products are rarely good.

I admit I was a bit hasty when deciding about my latest entire audio system but who doesn’t when just going back to a dear hobby after a very long hiatus? I quit my audio hobby some 17 years ago not because I am bored with the hobby, like I said upthread I quit because I have to grow up and stop getting money from my dad, so it was financial issue really and my mentality dictates that I’d rather be “audioless” than having low end audio so I survived 17 years with portable Bose or Sonos. Took me 17 or so years of hard work and crazy stress to be able to go back to this expensive audio hobby so I just want to enjoy what I can, even my wonderful wife approves. However, right now, I am no way in any shape or form is hasty. The initial excitement has died down and now I am a lot more cautious in selecting my next upgrade, if you look at my other threads you can tell that I am in the stage of researching deeply about my upgrade path but so far I only pulled the trigger on the Kuzma XL DC and I think the decision I made on the Kuzma XL DC is a wise and good one. Especially the fact that I am paying exactly a hair under $30.000 for everything. I am a happy camper. In fact, a day after I paid the down payment for the Kuzma, somebody from a nearby city offered me a Kronos Pro with Black beauty tonearm and cartridge (can’t remember the cart), it’s supposed to be a $65.000 setup and I can have it for $28.000. I didn’t even blink an eye.... that’s how content I am with the Kuzma XL DC after the fact that I have auditioned the sound extensively and I loved it more than anything I ever heard before. That’s enough for me, I’ve heard MY best so I don’t need to hear anything else (same mentality I treated my wife FWIW) 

I am waiting for my custom table to be delivered in two weeks time before I can install (with help) the Kuzma. I realized I have zero possibility of installing the Kuzma on my existing el cheapo plywood table. I will post pictures after everything is setup, it’s gonna be beautiful on top of a custom solid teak wood table.

Thanks for everyone’s suggestions, I think the wisest “preventative” steps I could take right now is to; first buy a cheaper cartridge to familiarize myself on operating one safely and store the expensive Miyajima until I am confident enough then buy the record ultrasonic cleaner.

Peace everyone and please keep this thread peaceful and civil ✌️

@dover I care less about your opinion because you are an ex dealer of high-end gear, probably you are retired dealer, you said many times that you are an ex dealer. As you know, dealer’s margine is more than 30%, sometimes much more like 50%, so please do not tell me about prises, $30k for a turntable is insane, tell your wife if you think it’s normal. No, it’s not normal, especially when a buyer have zero experience and zero knowledge about turntables, tonearms and cartridges! Every week I read posts from rich people on audiogon, they know nothing about analog gear. It’s so weird that being an old dudes (most of the posters on a’gon are retired people) whey are discovering analog later than yourger generation. Their guide is only price tags and an opinions of some other unknown sick audiophiles.
But it’s not about musical enjoyment or a well balanced system, great and reasonable priced high-end gear everyone can buy elsewere, but NOT from the dealers! In fact dealers often know nothing about great produscts, their own experience is limited and their target is a profit and huge margine they got from the manufacturers of overpriced modern high-end gear. Reviewers support this business model. This is how it works nowadays, weird business model! Maybe your own experience is better, but you are retired dealer! When I ask simple questions to the younger dealers they can’t answer even about the basics, sales man like a dealer is not an audiophile or analog enthusiast, often it’s a businessman first. Higher price and higher margine is better for them, always, so this stupid propaganda claiming that more expensive gear is a better gear is 100% BS in my opinion! Normally high-end is expensive by default, but some high-end is simply overpriced to the highest level today (absolutely insane prices).


Used market is an opportunity for enthusiasts like myself or anyone else, if you don’t know how to use this opportunity then you only limit yourself, but who cares? 
When you are trying to tell bad things about ebay or some other auction platforms, where not rich people people are buying and selling their own good stuff, you only demonstare to other that you are a snob!

There is nothing wrong to sell or to buy privately from other enthusiasts (not from the dealers), no matter vintage records or audio gear. This is great for everyone, it’s an open market! You are trying to say the opposite and it’s crazy. If you want dealers to rip you off with a 10 times higher prices then go on, it’s up to you, but this is not a good advice to wise people like most of the “normal” people who also enjoin’ high-end, believe it or not.

  
I’ll tell you one thing: without an opportunity to buy from Japan or from a private enthusiasts worldwide you will never get a good prices for high-end gear unless you are a dealer with 30% - 50% discount from the new manufacturer looking for a dealer in specific region. But there are always better and cheaper stuff that you can’t get from the manufacturer as a dealer, cos there are discontinued classics, not available rare stuff, you know?

If you want to buy a brand new $30k turntable than can be outperformed by a $3k secondhand turntable (same about cartridges) then you know who you are. A wise people already made their choice.

Dover sorry next time i may read this stuff.Please forgive my oversight.

@chakster 

I read the title of the topic and that's enough, $30k for turntable is insane even if "it's good based on your opinion".

No its not insane. Some people appreciate products that are well built and sound excellent. 

And I don't understand why any person would like to buy 1 expensive cartridge based on other people opinions instead of trying 5 different cartridges at the same total price to make his own opinion about them.

Because he just wants a great turntable. He is probably not interested in spending thousands of hours searching for the bargain of the century on yahoo japan, promoting the product on audiogon, whilst selling said same product on ebay to make a few lousy bucks by passing off second hand clapped out cartridges as state of the art.

It might be difficult for you to comprehend, but some folk work hard, make some money, and just want to enjoy their hobbies.

If you feel an incessent need to put down products based on price and perceived value, based on your own missconceptions, and denigrate other folks enjoyment of our hobby, then you probably need to see a therapist.

Less need to be right is a sign of confidence.
Agreed, process is often at least no less interesting than the result.

@best-groove@
@mijostyn
@jrussell88
@ebm 

Why do you persist in recommending solutions, when the OP has already posted that he has made a decision and has bought the Kuzma XL. Several people have already congratualted the gentleman.

Do you not read the thread before you post ??

 Mine is not the best the Tech Das Air Force Zero is the best by far its only $50000.00 dollars.Ill be picking one up soon.(ho ho)

As I've gotten older, Inna, I have less need to be "right." The process is more interesting than the result in some cases, which may be one explanation for audiophilia. 

It's hard to acknowledge the limitations, isn't it ?

We are limited as much by what we know as what we don't. 

ebm has a magical ability to make anything he touches the very best.
Remarkable.

Terry : The OP is a " young " gentleman ( 40 . ) that's in the learning proccess we all pass through and that almost never really end.

He posted here:

""  ZERO trace of SS sound, I could’ve sworn it was tube midrange sound. I never thought I would ever ever consider SS in my system but the low-ish end system armed with Kuzma made me a convert in a few minutes. ....... and I never ever ever favor SS sound even on megabucks system until now, Kuzma really made me hear the best quality of an SS system.   ""

He is not " married " yet to a kind of audio item and this " single behavior "  goes in his favor.

You are married with: Koetsu, planars, LT tonearms and the like and those kind of " marries " always  are a limitation, makes the game-over. At least for me.

I'm not married with any audio kind of item, only with MUSIC and my MUSIC priorities. I like to " play " in this audio game as long as I can.

The OP needs " land " to walk and then to run on it with out limitations.

Btw, @ebm  , the OP already bougth his analog rig.

R.

TW ACUSTIC RAVEN AC1 with Black Night feet,arm board,platter(all copper),3 motor unit,copper 3 motor cover and TW ACUSTIC 10.5 tonearm the best by far.

I think I see what's going on.

Midway down the first page, the OP reports that the exact analogue front end that he fell in love with, the exact same demo unit, was suddenly offered at a price he could afford. He accepted.

Perhaps we came to different conclusions because we were using different information?

@chakster - I think your taking shots at the high end through this new user's thread is a little misplaced. You seem to know old MM cartridges well based on what I've seen and that's a valuable contribution.

 The turntable this person bought is a good one based on my experience with it. Perhaps you should take your own advice, to the effect "that there is not such things as "best" for everyone, you can only try and compare yourself." The poster did get to hear the table and is buying the set up at what is apparently a good price. Don't begrudge him that.

I read the title of the topic and that's enough, $30k for turntable is insane even if "it's good based on your opinion". 

In my opinion there are many more turntables, cartridges and tonearms at better price and with better performance. 

And I don't understand why any person would like to buy 1 expensive cartridge based on other people opinions instead of trying 5 different cartridges at the same total price to make his own opinion about them. 

Anyway, this is just my opinion. 

P.S. Apart from the MM you have mentioned above, I own and use some of the best LOMC cartridges including Miyajima, Miyabi, Ikeda, FR, Dynavector, Shelter and others.  In my opinion a cartridge with $5000+ retail price is insane too (no cartridge can justice that price tag). 

@rauliruegas 

Well, I think it's likely that the OP will continue to enjoy his exceptional cartridge long into the future. Why? Because I fell in love with the planar sound as soon as I heard it fifty years ago, and that hasn't changed. I wanted a Koetsu from the first time I heard one, 40 years ago. That hasn't changed either. I wanted a good belt drive from the first time I heard one of those, 20 years ago. Even that hasn't changed, despite lots of auditions. Linear tracking tonearm too. Maybe the OP has a similar mentality.

You don't agree, doubtless for similarly good reasons. Shall we agree to leave it there? You have your viewpoint, I have mine?

Dear @terry9 : From the very first time that you started in analog till today how many cartridges do you owned? only 2?

The OP is starting with his first cartridge ever so yes in the near future he will be looking for new alternatives.

Koetsu is the best for you but not for every one and something that analog gives us is the opportunity to change the " color " and quality levels of what we are listening: this is the real advantage of any transducer as cartridges and speakers.

Cartridge manufacturers, including Koetsu, will follow in the cartridge research for better designs to give us that diferent or better color/quality level performance.

Please tell me 2-3 cartridge manufacturers that offer only one cartridge model for 5-10 years with no new improved cartridge designs.

In the other side not all cartridges performs the same mounted in the same tonearm, always exist differences and these differences belongs to the " analog game ". Ok, you finished your " game " no problem with but the OP is just starting with ! ! ! and the analog world is truly wide and he has the rigth to discover it by him self ( as this time. ). Through the time his research and learning issues are mandatory.

Terry, not all audiophiles share the same MUSIC/audio priorities and certainly do not own the same room/system. The OP needs to know the " fun " and learning behind the analog land exploration because all that is main part of the analog game, give him the chance to do it. Just an opinion.

Everything in the life is in continuous movement/changing and audio is no exception.

R.

have a look at the Vibrato tank, but Elna is first class  for sure. @slaw has a vibrato user. Also, get yourself some Stylast.

@whart i agree, let’s help the OP get the most out of music on his new TT

We'll forgive him, he is in Russia, life is hard there.

Agreed Whart. This sniping is in bad taste.

Miyajima is great cartridge and it’s not necessary to pay over $5k, some of the best Miyajima like Kansui (or even Madake) available for $2-3k with very low hrs of use. I have Miyajima Kansui (NOS).

As pointed out in another thread Miyajima is a trademark of Otono-Edison. In Japan those cartridges called Edison. The name Miyajima is for export sales only. 

@chakster - I think your taking shots at the high end through this new user's thread is a little misplaced. You seem to know old MM cartridges well based on what I've seen and that's a valuable contribution. The turntable this person bought is a good one based on my experience with it. Perhaps you should take your own advice, to the effect "that there is not such things as "best" for everyone, you can only try and compare yourself." The poster did get to hear the table and is buying the set up at what is apparently a good price. Don't begrudge him that. 

uwiiks, you have some fabulous equipment there, so just a word of caution. The magnets in your cartridge are very powerful. Do not let anything which is magnetic get anywhere near them. No watch straps, no coins, only tools - and even then, not too close and only when carefully controlled.

Don't ask me how I know. Good luck! 

Raul, you say the the OP will tire of his cartridge long before it wears out. I'm not so sure.

He is using a Miyajima cartridge, probably better than the one which I own, which is the Zero (a mono offering). I can say unequivocally that the Zero is in the same league as the DC Koetsu; lacking the ultimate refinement, but then one does expect to get SOMETHING for an extra $10K. So my experience with Miyajima is very positive.

I think it likely that the OP will continue to enjoy his Miyajima for decades to come - maybe not as his primary cartridge, but as an enjoyable alternative nevertheless. Decades. I do not think that you are being rational in this, and that is before we even consider the sonic benefits.

Further, there are the sonic benefits of US - not subtle to my ears, much greater than the difference between the Koetsu and Miyajima. I say, "Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you."

I think I paid less than $30k for all the gear on this image, purchased everything used step by step, market value can be more and retail is much more... Actually it’s much more than one person need (many speakers, turntables, tonearms, cartridges, cables, phono stages etc).

But when I see a person willing to spend $30k on one turntable alone, without knowing much about analog and being a victim of the high-end propaganda, I think it’s some sort of illness. Looking for a cartridges at $5000-8000 price tag as a started is definitely not right. Don’t let them rip you off. In fact you can buy so many cartridges, tonearms, turntables for $30k instead of one, so it's the only way to understand, there is not such things as "best" for everyone, you can only try and compare yourself. 

Dear @uwiikz : You are the fastest " gun-figther " I ever seen in my audio life.

Fortunatelly your chice for analog rig is a good one and I think that before pull the triger so fast due to your " emotions " took a little time to learn because believe it or not speaking of the analog alternative you have a lot to learn. I have over 38+ years about and I can tell you that I’m still learning. We all need learn to walk before we really can run in any audio subject.

Good that the dealer will makes the set up at your place and here the first target is to define where the TT will be " seated " and I mean not only in which position in the room/system but above which damped perfect leveled platform, these issues are extremely important for a top overall quality performance.

Your dealer must teachs you not only all the whole set up proccess but the fine tunning tips/high ligths to that set up, maybe you will need/take more than one " lesson " about to through the time you can be totally " independent " with no help by your dealer or Kuzma.

Other issue along the set up is that your dealer must tells you in specific which kind of maintenance needs the TT and air line tonearm/compresor if any.

Fortunatelly too you meet in your thread to two same Kuzma TT/tonearm owners ( @whart and @ferrari275 ) dedicated music lovers/audiophiles that by first hand experiences are two really authorized " voices " where you can look for help or some advises/tips on your analog rig. You are lucky.

You need too to learn what kind of maintenance needs the cartridge it self and first than all is to mantain the stylus tip in clean condition, there are several " tools " to do it and you need to learn about.

Yes, your new LPs needs maintenance too that means, between other things, that been in clean conditions.

My advise here is that don’t pull the triger on what terry posted about and first go for the @lalitk advise where the same manufacturer has 2-3 models.

At the end terry said that after 1,500 hours a stylus tip was destroyed but 1,500 hours of playing means to listen LPs for 3 hours daily through 500 days and I can tell you ( almost for sure. ) and you can be sure that after 300 hours ( maybe less. ) listening to your your cartridge you will be looking for newer cartridges than can outperforms what you have rigth now.

In the other side the stylus tip it self cleans the LP grooves and ( between other things. ) that’s why you need to mantain clean that cartridge stylus tip. Here you have to really take care when doing it because as other gentleman posted here: the cartridge/cantilever/stylus tip is extremely fragile.

To learn the more in the analog alternative you will need to " move " by what you learned using your brain and not only your " emotions ". Obviously that you can move it as you want it because at the end is your money and your room/system, it’s only an opinion.

These are good and trusty sources to buy LPs and cartridge/LP maintenance products and other audio items:

https://www.musicdirect.com/vinyl/diana-krall-live-in-paris-numbered-limited-edition-180g-45rpm-viny...

https://elusivedisc.com/search?search_query=diana+krall#/filter:custom_format:Vinyl

https://store.acousticsounds.com/


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@uwiikz As you asked for suggestions, if you have the opportunity try to hear the Vertere decks, eg MG-1, dealers in Surabaya City and Singapore, or Roksan Xerxes 20, dealer in Singapore. 

Their own arms and MC cartridges match well; or the top Audio Technica MC models are good value.

@terry9

Thanks for the clarification. I follow the same ritual, every new LP gets cleaned and receive MoFi anti-static sleeve. I am only buying new vinyl, even in that I’m very selective as far as record label, pressing quality, collectors editions etc etc. For everything else, I stream my music. I am not pursuing Analog in hopes for building a basement full of LP’s. Been there done that with tapes and CD’s. Only the very best and rare pressings gets my hard earned money :-)

Grunge is mainly on old records - the diamond dust comes from styli now dead.

But I clean NEW records as well. Opinion is divided on whether or not new records can be contaminated with mold-release compound or some other liquid residue, but with a $10K cartridge I take no chances. No record is allowed to look at the Koetsu before it is cleaned.

Allow me to add my congratulations on your new turntable. A fine unit which you will enjoy for many years - and IMO, that's money well spent.

Recommended equipment. I use an Elmasonic P60H, sold by Fisher, a prominent laboratory equipment supplier. This endorsement is important, because if lab equipment doesn't meet spec (specification), there is hell to pay, exacted by the biggest heavyweights. So you can trust Elma (a German company) equipment not to run overpower and ruin things nor underpower and not clean things. In my unit, Quality Control is superb.

That's the tank. To rotate the records in the US bath, I use an assembly made by Vinyl Stack, a U.S. company. Quality is very high, comparable  to Elma. A well thought out product which is easy to use. Even further, they will work with you to give you exactly what you need. I use one assembly with the Elmasonic to clean, another assembly to rinse.

Cleaning one or two records at a time gives best results; whether this is a matter of power per record or the distance between them I am not sure, although I suspect the latter. For cleaning chemistry I use 5% Fisher Versaclean in distilled water, 45C, 80KHz, 15 minutes. Then I rinse 4 times, dry, and put into new sleeves. @whart @antinn @rushton and others have made valuable comments on the subject. One user summarized the above, but his handle escapes me.

@terry9 

Thank you for your post. The grunge you speak of....is that more of a problem with used LP’s or brand new LP as well? 

congrats for your new TT ,
have fun and joy listening to lot records .Im too love miyajima cartridge ,I guess at that price maybe yours is madake .
be careful and always care and clean the stylus !
Advice :not to let kid or maid/pembantu clean your table , accidents you want to avoid ...Cartridge very fragile .

@uwiikz, @lalitk 

About record cleaning, the machine @lalitk recommended looks like a variant on the VPI 16.5. Much better than nothing, but not consistent with your investment in vinyl front end, IMO. I had one of the VPI machines - after cleaning with the VPI, my ultrasonic system removed as much grunge again. Difference in sound was even greater. Some unlistenably noisy records became pristine, high M-, if you can believe it.

The issue with record grunge is that even a tiny amount is unacceptable, since an analysis indicated equal portions of grease, diamond dust, and household dust (don't have the reference). That is just about an ideal industrial grinding compound, ready and able to re-shape your expensive, precision stylus into a blob. Using the VPI alone, one of my styli was utterly destroyed after about 1500 hours, vs almost new after 1000.

@uwiikz a quick question. Who will do the complete setup of your TT? A 30k table can sound like a 1k table if not setup properly.