Thanks for all the excellent suggestions. I will be away from the forum and won’t respond for a while. My dad just had a emergency heart bypass surgery and I have to help my mom takes care of him.
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I am blessed. My dad is very stable. Now let’s get back to Analog 😂. I just bought Mola Mola Tambaqui to replace my Cary. WOW what a difference. Now the dang thing is with the ultra high end setup my Kerr K300 started to be the weak link. I will be auditioning Ktema on Thursday |
Just get out from my thread man. My head is hard but your tongue has no bone. |
My humble apology if the wonderful gentlemen here are dumbfounded by what happened above. That wasn’t my intention at all and I actually regret responding to that person not worth my time. I hope this thread can continue with many more informative posts for many other members information that might be in the same situation as me. Peace ✌️ |
Ultrasonic is definitely on my list. Will order one soon. |
@honeyooi . Gong Xi Fa Chai my friend, may the year of the Ox bring prosperity and happiness for you and family for the years to come.
The automatic tonearm lift is something new to me but it looked like Godsend contraption. Since yesterday I have run over to my LP a few times after I failed to realize the track has ended. |
Oh yeah, new update for today 😁😁😁
Ex-demo A-250 monoblocks are coming in 2 hours, the dealer will also bring FM Acoustics FM155 MK II line stage for me to “survive” while waiting for the C-3900, C-47 Phono and DG-68 to arrive. 😁😁😁 Way too happy again today |
@rsf507 sharp eyes in noticing the folded paper on the temporary table leg 😂😂😂....I am waiting for my custom solid teak wood table to be delivered. The table top will be CNC cut to ensure perfect flatness and the legs will have stillpoint spike. |
My existing system is as follow:
- DCS Bartok streamer and DAC
- Mcintosh C22 preamp
- Mcintosh MC75 mk III monoblocks
- SF Guarneri Evolution
- Transparent Ultra Gen 5 cables
- Shunyata Delta NR PC
- PS Audio P10 regenerator
Path to my upgrade:
- Turntables first and foremost. If result by adding quality TT alone can compare or beat the (my) reference system I auditioned at the dealer then I will stop here, otherwise continue to below steps in order;
- Replace speaker with Franco Serblin Ktema
- Replace amp with Accuphase A-250 Monoblocks
- Replace Pre with Accuphase C2850
I actually considered Kuzma Stabi Ref 2, it fit my budget perfectly but the dealer doesn’t have it on stock for audition. Wondering if it will perform similar to Kuzma XL DC? |
Are you returning to final after a period
being without a Vinyl Set Up ? As I said upthread this is my first Vinyl rodeo ever. I swore long time ago to not drag myself into analog world but we all know how it ends. BTW most vinyl are around $25-$35 range here, very very affordable. |
That's good. You got lucky, go for it. I hope that you will get full warranty coverage, just
in case yes I got full warranty as if I bought it new. Paid booking fee already and now squeezing me brain on how to not upset my wife too much. Easier to ask for forgiveness than asking permission LOL!! |
Dear @uwiikz : Do you remember wich cartridge was mounted in the Kuzma dealer’s system and the Accuphace CD model? in that dealer sessions which CD’s did you listen it and if you can let us know if the comparisons were with the same LP’s titles than the CDs?
Thank’s in advance.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
I don’t remember what exactly the cartidge was, but it was a $6500 cartridge from Miyajima and $6500 4 point Kuzma tonearm. The CD player was Accuphase DP 750. Phono was the Accuphase plug in board for the integrated amp. The rest of the system was low-ish end really and it beat the hell out of CD player based 200K plus system the dealer had in the other room. The margin of performance was quite a lot between the low-ish end system armed with Kuzma and the 200K plus system that I cannot help to scoff at the other system.
Album on both LP and CD was Diana Krall Live in Paris, same tracks on every comparison. The sound from the CD player while also very very nice was sounding really bland compared to the Kuzma. With the Kuzma the voice was very 3 dimensional, clear and distinct separation from the rest of the sounds. Just by switching to Kuzma it feels like Diana Krall took two steps forward closer to me, ditch the microphone and sing beautifully in a private audience. Clapping audience sounds very very real with distinct energy you can literally feel the audience hands hitting each other. Each bass tone was tight and rounded with complete authority on each hit. I would’ve believed the dealer If I did a blind test and the dealer said he added a subwoofer, the bass quality change was really that extreme. Midrange was very liquid, holographic and magical, there was literally ZERO trace of SS sound, I could’ve sworn it was tube midrange sound. I never thought I would ever ever consider SS in my system but the low-ish end system armed with Kuzma made me a convert in a few minutes. I have been a high end aficionado since I was a 13 years old kid now at 40 (17 years hiatus in between because I have to be an adult and start making my own money instead of siphoning my surgeon dad’s money... I love him dearly) and I never ever ever favor SS sound even on megabucks system until now, Kuzma really made me hear the best quality of an SS system. My wife is my second set of ears and she is my reference for totally objective judgement of sound because she plays many instruments and also sing, she have no idea of the system and cost (before she gets the bill) and she was claiming it was almost exactly like hearing a live concert, that’s the first I ever heard from her. Like I said before, switching from CD player to Kuzma feels like the system was entirely upgraded by 2-3 level of class.
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Millercarbon,
thanks a lot, your description sounds very assuring, detailed and authoritative. I will give it a strong look and see if I can find the dealer locally. Do you mind explaining the sound signature of the front end mentioned? |
Thanks a million for the suggestions folks! WOW, lots of suggestions and all seems great. There are a lot of brands you guys mentioned that I never heard before and all are looking interesting. I do however have a problem with auditioning in my particular country Indonesia, it’s a third world country so we don’t have much choice to audition, we do have official dealers for a lot of brands but most are catalogue sales.
Given my country’s lack of audition possibilities, perhaps I should rephrase my original question. What lower priced alternative than Kuzma XL DC that would give me the almost exact same sonic characteristics? I do not want to risk my investment by going to totally different sonic characteristics TT which actually might be also very good perhaps even better than Kuzma XL DC. Everyone’s taste are different and I happen to find my match with the Kuzma XL DC. I would’ve bought the Kuzma XL DC if it’s not outrageously expensive. Perhaps I should stay within Kuzma range to not risk disappointment? Do all the line from Kuzma posses the same sonic characteristics? Does Kuzma have a house sound? I cannot find any deeper discussion about Kuzma in any forum and it’s a bit frustrating given what I heard on the dealer’s system. Unfortunately the official dealer only have one Kuzma TT on stock and that is XL DC. The thing is I can actually afford Kuzma XL DC if I really want to but despite my long history with audio this will be my first rodeo with turntable ever so I am a bit leery of spending that much on my first attempt at TT. I used to always swore on my future grave that I will never touch TT ever, especially after owning good streamer with Roon and boy there is always first for something LOL.
Perhaps ordering Kuzma R with 4 point 9 tonearm and Miyajima cartridge sounds viable? OR just please somebody tell me XL DC is the best ever and there is no other that can compare so I can just jump the cliff and took the plunge? LOL!! Damn this audio bug, my wife gonna hate me for the next one month.
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WOW! Never expected this thread to be this informative with so many detailed responses!! Happy being here folks! |
I just called the dealer just to chat about acoustic panel for my new dedicated listening/HT room/mancave. He offered me a crazy deep discount if I am willing to take the display model they had for two years, the exact same Kuzma XL DC I listened to including Kuzma 4 pt TA and Miyajima cartridge. Basically he slashed the retail price for the display item by almost half....so I think it will be extremely unwise for me to pass the deal. Thanks a billion folks!! I think I have found my answer. Special thanks for Ferrari275 and Whart for sharing your personal Kuzma XL experiences and confirming my impressions of the Kuzma XL DC. LOVE IT!!! |
Congratulations on your purchase. Would you mind confirming which Miyajima cartridge you were listening to?
@lalitk Thanks a lot! Yes I have been wondering about the same too. My apology for nit making it clear, I will ask the dealer about it on Monday and let you know. |
Hi @terry9 , welcome to the thread and thanks a lot for your knowledge about the Koetsu cartridge. Thanks for the heads up @whart
Dwi Atmaji |
Good for you, @uwiikz. I’d recommend that you pay to have the dealer do the initial set up for you. Yes, it is good to know how to do this yourself, but your first go round with this table (or lacking recent experience with TT set up generally) really mandates that. And, I say offer to pay only b/c he’s selling the unit to you without making much if anything.
@whart thank you very much for the tips and suggestions. I will off course ask for full help and guidance from the dealer which I became familiar with and I will get the necessary “must haves” maintenance items you mentioned. Typically no dealer will ask for setup fee when we buy the item from them, because of the way economy works in this country (low GDP) even if we insist to pay for setup fee the dealer won’t dare/be able to charge more than $100 which means nothing in term of actual profit, but it is customary for most of us here to tips the helpers very handsomely because usually they are the one who’s doing the heavy liftings. I will also pay special attention to learn as much as I can about the condition of the consumable cartridge. Again, many thanks and appreciation for everyone chipping in their knowledge! |
@terry9 thanks a lot on the tips for ultrasonic cleaner. I am familiar with the wonder of ultrasonic bath/rinsing as I am very meticulous in keeping my stuff squeaky clean. I will ask my dealer about the the stuff but if it’s not too much of a problem perhaps you have specific brand/model you would suggest for me? I tried searching local online market and found quite a few but all are very expensive, 6L one is like $750 and it is looking totally cheap and not well made.
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@rauliruegas awesome suggestions, I love it. I will definitely give it a try. Thanks a lot man! |
@terry9 , I did some research on your recommendation on the ultrasonic cleaner... damn I want that, all in or all out right? For the meantime I am looking for cheaper cartridge to learn with, care to suggest? Not looking to spend more than $1500 for the “learning phase” cartridge and perhaps on this case I’ll heed to the “buy used” suggestion suggested by @chakster . |
LOL! Folks take it easy. All good here, I don’t feel ripped off at all by my purchase. I can appreciate good product. I used to be a canvassing salesman many years ago and my ex boss have a saying that I will never forget, he said “salesman can lie but price tag will never lie” meaning good products are usually expensive and cheap products are rarely good.
I admit I was a bit hasty when deciding about my latest entire audio system but who doesn’t when just going back to a dear hobby after a very long hiatus? I quit my audio hobby some 17 years ago not because I am bored with the hobby, like I said upthread I quit because I have to grow up and stop getting money from my dad, so it was financial issue really and my mentality dictates that I’d rather be “audioless” than having low end audio so I survived 17 years with portable Bose or Sonos. Took me 17 or so years of hard work and crazy stress to be able to go back to this expensive audio hobby so I just want to enjoy what I can, even my wonderful wife approves. However, right now, I am no way in any shape or form is hasty. The initial excitement has died down and now I am a lot more cautious in selecting my next upgrade, if you look at my other threads you can tell that I am in the stage of researching deeply about my upgrade path but so far I only pulled the trigger on the Kuzma XL DC and I think the decision I made on the Kuzma XL DC is a wise and good one. Especially the fact that I am paying exactly a hair under $30.000 for everything. I am a happy camper. In fact, a day after I paid the down payment for the Kuzma, somebody from a nearby city offered me a Kronos Pro with Black beauty tonearm and cartridge (can’t remember the cart), it’s supposed to be a $65.000 setup and I can have it for $28.000. I didn’t even blink an eye.... that’s how content I am with the Kuzma XL DC after the fact that I have auditioned the sound extensively and I loved it more than anything I ever heard before. That’s enough for me, I’ve heard MY best so I don’t need to hear anything else (same mentality I treated my wife FWIW)
I am waiting for my custom table to be delivered in two weeks time before I can install (with help) the Kuzma. I realized I have zero possibility of installing the Kuzma on my existing el cheapo plywood table. I will post pictures after everything is setup, it’s gonna be beautiful on top of a custom solid teak wood table.
Thanks for everyone’s suggestions, I think the wisest “preventative” steps I could take right now is to; first buy a cheaper cartridge to familiarize myself on operating one safely and store the expensive Miyajima until I am confident enough then buy the record ultrasonic cleaner.
Peace everyone and please keep this thread peaceful and civil ✌️ |
I saw this website Degritter, supposed to be good and “only” $3000 for the whole set and made specifically for record cleaning. |
@chakster , I personally do not have problem with dealer doing big mark up as long as it’s staying within comparison to other dealers/staying within the scope of international RRP then all is good in my book. Everyone needs to make a living and decent one considering the investment made by retailers/dealers. One cannot compare “normal” profit margin for somebody selling potato and rice to somebody selling high end audio, potato and rice sells multiple time in a day and high end dealers are lucky to sell one gear in a day while both businesses model still have the same overhead to cover. I think it’s normal and justifiable if high end audio dealers are making 50-70% profit (they do get big discounts from factory) and I think it’s normal for somebody selling potato and rice to make 5%-10% profit. Again, all are my personal opinion which might worth something and might be worthless. |
I also smile when people jump straight to a top of the class without having accumulated experience in small steps.
It’s like entrusting a Lamborghini to a newbie who has just obtained his driving
license ... sooner or later it will crash. LOL If you prefer to use that analogy, well... my first sport car was a 2012 Porsche 997 GT2RS and that was immediately after driving slow JK Wrangler. I didn’t crash making use of that 623 WHP and I had loads of fun. Some people just have money to burn and smart enough not to destroy what that money bought. I hate bickering on forum but what’s up with the hate? It’s my money and my system. |
My humble apology for the rest of the wonderful gentlemen that contribute in positive manner on this thread. I don’t mean to downgrade this wonderful thread with my anger but this 4$$h4t$ really get into my nerve. Anyone that hope somebody killed in a car crash publicly are not worth to be considered human in my book. That’s really way too much. @best-groove you are welcome to come to Indonesia if you want to see what I am capable of. |
Hunday?? You can’t even spell correctly. It shows that you are uneducated. I never claim I am rich, I am well off...yes, rich?? Absolutely not. Bezos is rich, I am just well off. Parvenu?? Yes I am not ashamed to admit I am Parvenu, at least I get my income from hard work and perseverance not from inheritance.
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Yea I have a good life. 75 employees, 2nd and 3rd villas in Bali, 4th condo In Vancouver, come to the office once or twice a month, wake up at 10 am everyday, ideal bodyweight, 120/70 blood pressure, 3 wonderful kids, a wife that loves me to death, 2 full time maids serving the family, 2 full time drivers driving us wherever we wanna go, one personal assistant, parents that loves me more than anything else all at the mere age of 40. So adios amigos and enjoy your hard life |
It’s not about my pride, I have nothing to prove to this forum. I do what I do and ask what I ask and that’s it. And no I don’t misinterpret your words, English might not be my mother tongue but I know I can read and understand English better than many native English speaker. What humor???? If you call that a humor then you are the one who need to look at the mirror. Your so called joke was about my death crashing Lamborghini. Is that what you call joke? That is you hoping that I will die crashing my Lamborghini. If you just upgraded to Pagani Huayra after your Hyundai broke down and I tell you that you will crash and kill/hurt yourself would you stay calm and not angry? Look at the mirror man.... |
@whart you are 100% correct and thank you very much for your wise words. I am a member in many other automotive forums forum such as HDforums, iH8mud, Chevytalk, trifive, mustang forum, Rennlist, Reefcentral, MV Agusta, Ducati, etc. I am a hobby buff since long. I use the same nickname Uwiik/Uwiikz almost everywhere. Anybody can see my posts on the many forums I am a member and everyone can see In my decade of digital trace that I have never ever even once start a fight nor bickering back and forth in any forum. What @best-groove implied on his first insult was the most condescending with vaguely implied threat towards my very life. I admit he got the best of me for once ever in my various forum life, even his “fake” apology was still accompanied by more insults which off course I cannot forgive so I have no choice but to stop his insults by suing him if necessary. If that have to happen, I know I have slim chance of winning in court but knowing that person having to go back and forth to court countless time not to mention the cost of his lawyer while I can just sit back and relax letting my lawyer do the legwork in US is good enough for me. One can insult me anyway they can like I said I deal a lot with politicians my patience and tolerance level is very high, but if one threaten my life even by vague implication I am prepared to go all out to give a lesson to that person.
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@whart @terry9 @lalitk and many other I cannot mention here, in the spirit of more positive posts here is my choice for cartridge which the dealer have on stock:
- Miyajima Kansui it is what currently fitted and the dealer is willing to sell that to me at 60% discount from RRP. He will even let me to bring my microscope to inspect the needle (any pointers on how to inspect?)
- Miyajima Madake used once for a weekend long in a 2019 home audio show for 40% off RRP
- Miyajima Destiny brand new with 30% discount because I bought the whole set from him
- Linn Krystal brand new for $1300 nett
I am leaning towards the demo Kansui or the used once Madake for the keeper and Linn Krystal for me to learn with. |
@whart you, @terry9 , @lalitk are the reason I decided to stick around in this forum. My deepest appreciation to you folks. |
About the wonderful member who recently passed away, was it Dan (Jdandy)? I read a lot of his posts on the other forum and yes he is one hell of a guy. I cannot help feeling sad when I read through his thousands of posts, what a journey. From the old time when he still have his wife Marlene, her passing and eventually Dan’s own passing. Although I am new I cannot help feeling sad reading all about it. |
WONDERFUL NEWS!! I got quite familiar and friendly with the dealer and he threw in the Miyajima Kansui used on the demo unit completely free of charge. I am happier than happy right now. Right now I am negotiating with the dealer if it’s possible for him to come setup the Kuzma today. I just don’t have the patience to wait until my custom table is finished. Ordering some LP from local internet store. Just for fun, we in Indonesia have this wonderful online marketplace called Tokopedia, it is literally better than Amazon Prime, it’s like Amazon NOW instead of Amazon Same day, I can get what I order in 1-2 hours... it’s crazy. |
Coming in an hour, it’s 8pm here.... I am very excited, he is going to set it up immediately too. Aaaaaand he will also bring Accuphase E-650 and Kerr Acoustic K300 to leave in my home while waiting for my Accuphase C2850, Accuphase A-250 and Kerr Acoustic K100 to arrive. I guess we will be staying up very late today. |
I uploaded some pics on my virtual system. can't figure out to make it appear on this page. I am tipsy right now. |
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How to post picture here? |
Plugged into my C22 I have to crank the volume to 12 o'clock position for any decent volume, mismatched gain? The sound however was night and day, it's a lot more real and improvement was everywhere, background was pitch black, even my very shy tweeter started to sing, low level listening and dynamic was only ok though. Don't get me wrong, the improvement by adding Kuzma to my C22 + MC75 was supremely major, maybe I was just a bit too critical. One thing for sure though, the gain mismatch is a major pain and I think it affect a lot in negative way. I then switched to Accuphase E-650 (dang this thing is heavy) with the Kuzma DC XL still with the same SF Guarneri Evolution speakers and everything immediately opens up. I can hear again another major improvement in every factor especially speed, dynamics and low level listening suddenly became insanely nice. I can hear every detail, punch and nuances even at a very low level of volume. I haven't got the chance to really test it with normal listening level (75-85db for me) because my wife fell asleep and I pissed her enough already by having the nice technician until 11 pm, she had to sleep in the kid's room only to move to our bedroom after the tech left, off course I did all the Covid protocol before and after. But dang she was really pissed....LOL...I'll let her sleep it off. |
@rauliruegas , thanks a lot for your take on the Kerr K100. Having heard the K300 a few times I actually thought about what you said, not about the in-depth knowledge you just taught me which obviously I know nothing about, I was simply thought that if I already love K300 so much why take a risk with another more expensive model which I cannot audition before buying anyway. Do you have experience with Kerr Acoustic? It’s very hard to find a post or in depth review about the brand.
When you say to add subwoofer and to cut the K300 at 80hz high pass crossing, it means that I need to have an EQ/Cross such as Accuphase DG-68 correct? I have JL Audio F113 V2 as consideration.
I understand that the tables on the pictures are way far from ideal, apologies for the hasty mess but these were temporary. New custom made table with stillpoint should be ready in two weeks or so before I can actually arrange things properly. Room treatment including floor is on my list of priority but not on top of the list. The reason for delaying room treatment is because I had MEN220 before (I returned it a few days ago) and I can never get room correction percentage above 6%, therefore I assume my room acoustics problem is not that severe and treatment can wait. I know I should’ve prioritize room treatment but I like seeing new gears more than seeing new acoustic panels LOL 😆.
Thanks so much and please keep it coming. |
Just added new photo of the entire system. Too happy today |
@solypsa thanks for the encouragement, I am enjoying it to the max and can’t stop smiling right now. Just having another thought about just sticking with Kerr K300 and not bother with K100 since the K300 is a proven performer already in my room, as @rauliruegas suggested I probably better off adding a couple of subs than waiting around for 4 months and 4X the cost of K300 with no audition experience on the K100, but I am wondering if A-250 and C-2850 will be overkill for entry level K300. Today I home auditioned the K300 vs my existing SF Guarneri Evo driven by E-650 and Kuzma XL. Not even close, K300 wind hands down. |
@whart please no need to say “if you don’t mind” :) I have thick ears, I snapped earlier on this thread because of special case, I don’t normally act like that.
I am planning to cover the floor with Parquet/wood floor. Do you think it will help vs rug or perhaps both parquet and rug? Gotcha about TV and table, I will follow your suggestion but no I don’t use my stereo for TV, it’s just that is the only wall in my bedroom that I can use and the TV been sitting there since forever. I am building a mancave downstairs, eventually the Accuphase setup will move downstairs and I’ll get another much cheaper set for my bedroom system. I also need to cover the useless three sets of double wing doors I have on the right side of the room. I will cover the door from inside with acoustic panel, leave the door alone from outside for aesthetic reason and only leave the center door for access to my balcony.
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@lalitk thanks a lot for the suggestion. Which model REL I should aim for? In general is one sub enough or two is a must? Thanks! |
Just updated my virtual system. Result after A-250... I am in heaven. It was unbelievable, Yuko Mabuchi’s Piano sounds very very real, Miles Davis too and everything else was magical...I ended up upgrading the cartridge to Miyajima Madake from Kansui, exact same sound just a tad more dynamics |
@lalitk thanks, I will check out with the REL dealer on Monday to see if home audition is possible. I originally planned for JL because it has built in room correction. I am concerned if blending the sub perfectly will be tough without built in room correction and I like the idea of cutting the frequency going to main speaker and JL can do that. |
@whart today I plan to whip out my decade old rug from storage and put it on my floor. My wife is finally okay with my “insane to her” audio upgrade plan so now I can do whatever I want to reach my target and yes room treatment is very high on my list. I am procrastinating because I don’t fancy strangers working on my bedroom, sure it will have to happen sooner or later but I prefer to finish my mancave downstairs first before tearing apart my private bedroom where I do a lot of naughty things with my wife 😉 |
@rauliruegas ,
thanks so much for taking the time to guide me with your in depth explanation. Although I am not new at all in audio world, I still have so much to learn when it comes to modern home audio (my last foray in home audio was 17 or so years ago), I do however never stop playing with car audio until today. What you explained made so much sense and I will take my time to re read again and again your suggestions to fully digest it.
Yes I am like a kid in candy store everytime I visit that dealer, you are spot on on that, I just do not have the ability to be patient. Right now I am already considering Mola Mola Tambaqui from the same dealer but I am also considering tube DAC because believe it or not I think my system will be perfect if it has some slight tube signature on the sound. Maybe I just have too much time on my hand and need something to keep my mind occupied and busy. Semi retirement at early age seems like a good idea but I can tell you it’s damn boring especially right now with lockdown everywhere.
Back to the topic. I do not want to import my audio gear because it always turned out A LOT more expensive. Local dealers here have excellent discount and due to 0% import tax on electronic price is even more competitive than USA. Plus I also need to support local dealer so they can stay in business better, we have a lot of unemployment in the country and any business will help on that problem. I can find Velodyne DD18 brand new locally not the DD15 though and the DD18 os slightly more expensive than JL F113 V2. I will definitely try it out. The same Velodyne dealer happens to also the dealer for JL audio, so I can try both easily.
About frequency cutting, back in 1999 I used to be extremely fanatical about custom made passive crossover in the car audio scene. The guy who is a real expert in building custom passive with very expensive top grade components can definitely build one for my home audio, back in 2000 he even competed many times in USA with his custom passive and won many trophies. What do you think about that? Speaker output from A-250 to custom passive first to cut at 80-100hz then to speaker cable to continue to the K300. That way everything are still totally analog with zero digital intervention and I don’t need to buy one more set of $10.000 XLR just to cut the frequency via any other more common method.
I plan to visit the dealer for JL and Velodyne today but turned out the shop is closed due to Chinese New Year weekend holiday.
Your further thoughts please and as always, many thanks! |
@whart just finished cleaning my rug and laid it out inbetween my sofa and speakers, what a difference! Everything else is the same but bass notes are definitely more authoritative and tight! Thanks a lot for the tips man! |
