7 MK 2 arrived, setup easy and tuned for room and THE sweet spot. I guess if I "listened differently" I could always turn on the rear firing 901 reflection tweeter...
Boomy bass ? 11 bands of EQ, variable Q and level built in...hmmmm..
Image height, gee Diana is like 7' tall on case of You..I suppose she could really be 10' but how will Elvis kiss her ?
Love Em....but I am into music, do not turn over my gear too much.. |
Thanks Tom, I thought I was the only one on this board who didn't turn over gear monthly, lol. Glad you love them and that they were so easy to set up and enjoy. Have fun with them as I'm sure you will. I'll just read and be jealous, lol...Still hoping and praying I can eventually get the Quatro's.
The thing I love about this thread is how passionate everyone is over their fav speakers. That just shows how differently we all listen and that there is plenty of room for all types, sizes and prices of gear. Personally, I love listening to certain pieces when I read about them on the forums. That way I know which posters have similar likes and dislikes. |
@Ctsooner, I like to sit and get moved as well, so when you listen to Magico S5's or newer models such as M Pro or Q7 Mk2 properly setup for synergy, you must be hearing something completely different to me. Each to their own as they say. Incidentally, I am not a fan of Wilson speakers either.
The Ayre 20th anniversary amps by all reports are outstanding amps, though they are not the only outstanding amps out there. I'd quite happily compare a Vitus SS-102 and SL-102 pre to that gear any day of the week, even the new SS-025 stereo amp. But I accept that is a matter of personal preference. |
08-03-15: Tomic601
7 MK 2 arrived, setup easy and tuned for room and THE sweet spot. I guess if I "listened differently" I could always turn on the rear firing 901 reflection tweeter...
Boomy bass ? 11 bands of EQ, variable Q and level built in...hmmmm..
Image height, gee Diana is like 7' tall on case of You..I suppose she could really be 10' but how will Elvis kiss her ?
Love Em....but I am into music, do not turn over my gear too much.. That was quite a defensive and boastful reply Tomic. Now here is an observation; your system is completely unbalanced and heavily tipped toward your speakers. I favor a balanced system approach with a commensurate investment in amplification, front end, cables, isolation and AC power. Your speakers are only as good as the rest of the chain; rubbish in, rubbish out. Have a good day... |
10-13-14: Electroslacker
Doesn’t the “best we’ve heard” depend heavily on when we heard it? When it is outside our control and comparison. When there is some sea change in our assumptions and perceptions where words fail us. For me, it was a pair of KLH Model 5’s driven by a stack of McIntosh tubes. I was just walking down the mall, passed by the storefront, and was captured by a tractor beam, unable to resist the pull. A similar experience came with Apogee Stages driven by the original VAC PA-90’s. I’m sure there were better, just as there are prettier girls, but love is a unique and wonderful response. Very well said..... |
Focal SM9, it's on a totally different level compared to passive speakers. |
The soundlab speakers driven by VTL electronics.For a fraction of what you can spend on speakers the way everything in a soundfield is reproduced is uncanny.They have a "spook" factor of 11 on a 1-10 scale.Imagine getting one of the greatest speakers for 10,000 to 15,000 dollars instead of 50,000 to 100,000.That's what you call a freaking steal. |
Roxy54, at the time that I had the Cello gear, they didn't have speakers. I heard the Stradivaris later but never owned them. I don't really recall what speakers I had with the Cellos. It may have been Duntech Sovereigns. |
Melbguy1, now with expensive cables and power cords, I think the notion of a balanced approach is nonsense. I have found that $20k worth of HFCables on an $1800 dac makes it sound like a $35,000 dac. Also isolation and better racks cannot be ignored.
Yes GiGo, but everything is critical for there to be the magic that we can now get. |
Of course everything matters. I too have not heard a speaker that I like better than the Vandersteen 7's and I haven't even had a chance to hear the MK2's. I've heard them many times, in many systems in many rooms and they always sound the way I like music to sound...like music. There are a lot of speakers I have loved over the years, but none have moved me AND given me the fabric of the music, detail, pace, rhythem etc... as the Vandersteen. I will never be able to afford them, but I pushed things and got the Treo's.
That takes nothing away from Magico's or Wilsons or Harbeths or....Too many expensive speakers that get great props in the press just haven't moved me and I've heard most in many systems. That doesn't mean that many don't swear by those other speakers or brands. I just wish that more people would listen with products they own or can afford. Too many just buy stuff they read about or hear about in threads on the net (like this one) and make their choices without knowing what else is out there. I'm just back from a few weeks in Japan and I got to hear a ton of gear that I never get to hear in the states due to what I'm living, traveling etc... They certainly are listening differently that I listen, but that's cool too. I did get into portable audio while over there and got a pair of Noble Savants this week. I have yet to hear most of the iem's out there, but from what I did get to hear, I liked the Nobles a whole lot and I'm sure in a year from now I'll have these sold off and be looking for something else. I've already had folks who like JH audio better, give me a hard time. That's what I love about audio, there is always a great debate to be had.
Fun thread still |
The room is an extension of your speaker, and many seasoned and wise philes have told me its 70% or more of the equation. Most of the speakers referenced are competent, but without proper setup and room engineering, they will suck. I have heard many a megabuck speaker held hostage by the room. The real problem is an industry one. It is easier to sell equipment than rooms. The longest threads on this forum are typically revolve around arguments about equipment. Sad and short sighted. |
Without question the best speaker I ever heard was a beat up Altec coaxial. It was driven by a Western Electronic two 205 tube mono amp. If there had been two such amps, I would still have them today, I think. |
"many a megabuck speaker held hostage by the room."
Totally agree with statement by Agear on MEGABUCK speaker. |
09-16-15: Tbg
Melbguy1, now with expensive cables and power cords, I think the notion of a balanced approach is nonsense. I have found that $20k worth of HFCables on an $1800 dac makes it sound like a $35,000 dac. Also isolation and better racks cannot be ignored.
Yes GiGo, but everything is critical for there to be the magic that we can now get. Tbg, I can't speak for HFC cables as I own Jorma Prime and Statement cables. I certainly agree top flight cables and isolation matter and have heard the benefits with my own ears. In fact, the first thing I invested in when I started to build my high end system was cables, so I don't disagree with your view. Though cables and isolation can only take you so far. Then you need to invest in a better amp and front end. I feel i've found the right balance in my system & am very happy with the results. |
Intuitive Design Gamma Summits and their Mosaic's are the best speakers for me. not bright nor grainy and are so seamless. and with these speakers I have found every seat is a sweet spot. |
Well put Agear. I've been around this hobby since '69 and have found most dealers can't set up a speaker to save their lives and/or a room. Most of the rooms do suck as they have to cram so many speakers in there. That's why I make sure to call ahead whenever I can to get them to set up the system in a room with nothing else when they can. Most can't and I think they lose business from folks who know what they are listening to. |
Perhaps the title should change to what music do you listen to and what's the best forgiving speakers to cover almost all your music genre, this is more worthwhile to be put into discussion. |
how exactly Melbguy1 was my post defensive and boastful ?
what exactly is the garbage in my system ? |
09-22-15: Tomic601
how exactly Melbguy1 was my post defensive and boastful ?
what exactly is the garbage in my system ? If you're asking those questions, you're not ready for the answers.. |
I completed my quest for a new set of speakers, a week ago received my new Focal Sopra No2's.
During my search, one audio salesman asked me if I prefer speakers which were "analytic" or ones that were "musical". He characterized the Wilson & Magico's as "analytic". Though I feel they make some fantastic products, I just couldn't listen to any of their models for very long before fatigue set in. I found the tweeters in the Wilson's were so "unforgiving" that when coupled with electronics that had any shrillness, I just couldn't listen to them for very long.
I found the highs and midrange in the Focal's to be the most detailed, and the bass to be tight and well integrated with the rest of the drivers. I'll still use sub woofers with these new speakers. I find that the tweeters in these speakers benefit from smooth sounding amplification, would probably be too shrill with some amps on the market.
These speakers have tremendous soundstage and when the music has a "large" sound, they sound much "larger" than anything I've auditioned.
I'm only a week into the break in period, but they already sound better!
Putting a smile on my face! |
Ironically, Focal has a reputation just like Magico or Wilson for giving you a haircut with the wrong gear upstream. Depending on your perspective, that can be good and bad. Wilsons can sound great when mated with Lamm. I have heard Magicos sound very good with Plinius last year. The big Focals created a stir not too long ago with VTL. Its just like cooking....
That aside, very few "audiophile" grade speakers can rescue bad recordings. If that is your fair, get an iPod or a Sonos.... |
Wim1983
Love your suggestion on what music..
Here are the last 12 i listened to (one of the neat features of Naim unitiserve)
Alison Krauss - Paper Airplane
Cowboy Junkies - Rarities, B-Sides (listen to all but extra attention on last track may tell a bit about time and phase)
getz-Gilberto
L Cohen - Old Ideas
The Band - Music from Big Pink ( MFSL)
Ray Brown - Soular Energy
Wayfaring Strangers - Shifting Sands of Time
"Shorty Krall" - Live in Paris
Traffic - Shootout at Fantasy Factory
Wailin Jennys - Live at Maunch
Lyle Lovett - Pontiac
i dont have any Metal or Garbage, so I may need to get some... |
Just bought a pair of Intuitive Design Gamma Summits and these speakers are so amazing I will never get rid of them. |
09-27-15: Jughead
Just bought a pair of Intuitive Design Gamma Summits and these speakers are so amazing I will never get rid of them. Good for you Jughead. I used to own the Summits, and they are exceptional speakers. I sold them as I have young kids, and I did not want to have a 90 lb monitor that was mobile on Stillpoints.... |
Yeah they can be a scary speaker to have with young ones around. I'm fortunate enough to have them in the basement and my 8yr old doesn't like it down there. and man are they heavy speakers, but the sound is man I cant explain it. UNREAL! |
Jughead, the Summits will compete with most of the speakers referenced on this thread when properly setup and with appropriate ancillary equipment. Dale spends an inordinate amount of time on mechanical and electrical grounding schemes in his speakers, and you can hear it. He said those two elements are far more important than Gucci drivers and parts. They make most other speakers "sound like speakers" with their disembodied and ethereal sound. Its the sound of no speaker. Enjoy.... |
I'm having great success running a Musical Design t100 amp and the spl preamp, and a pair of REL t9 subs. I have also added a Shunyata ps8 and one of dales entry level interconnects and saving for the Mosaic speaker cable. and yeah these speakers sound like no other speaker I have ever heard every time I listen my jaw hits the floor. |
Nice. It does not hurt to have Duane in your court for setup. He is the master.... |
That he is, and he drinks all my good beer too. LOL! |
I would like to work on room acoustics next but me and my wife are looking into another home, and my present room has to many obstacles. my next house will be based a little on can I treat the room? look for a house that my speakers are comfortable in. crazy ain't it? |
09-28-15: Jughead
That he is, and he drinks all my good beer too. LOL! That is his standard fee. Talk to him (or Dale) about room treatments or design elements for your future sound room.... |
Oh yeah Duane will always be in the loop for all my audio needs. |
In my price range...
Thiels
Magnepans
Von Schweikert |
Oblgny what price range are you talking about? |
No doubt about it ... Avalon Isis |
Raidho D5 on all soulutions electronics. Best ever. I left the listening room in a stupor. The late great Dave Baskin put that great combination together and he almost had to put me out because it sounded so good I didn't want to leave his house. |
PMC Fact.8..
With SPec integrate and Music fidelity CDP..
the combination was clean, clear, tons of details, the total presentation was smooth and it can happen only when the total system has synergy.. |
Acapella High Violoncello II loudspeaker w/ Einstein Electronics |
10-08-15: Trcnetmsncom
No doubt about it ... Avalon Isis That is a great loudspeaker. |
I just heard the Isis and loved it too. I have listened to the XLF in two different rooms that were all top of the line Boulder and DCS, but they didn't' connect with me. There are a few lines that I really have enjoyed recently. The new Proac line is awesome. Very sweet mids and highs. Not clean like VAndys, but an engaging speaker that I could own and be happy with for years. The Avalon line is great too, but distribution channels have dried up and the company doesn't seem to be what they used to be, so it would scare me off a bit. Dynaudio higher end speakers that I've heard are also pretty amazing. Very musical.
In the end, I just validated the fact that the VAndy line is clean, fast and has highly accurate bass in all their speakers. Those carbon tweeters make such an amazing difference from the mids up (My Treo's are the older ones and I wish I had the CT's, lol). I am able to emotionally connect with VAndys, Proacs, Dynaudio adn even the Rockports. Any speaker needs proper room and set up though. All too often I've been hearing speakers like Magico and Wilson's that I COULD like, but they have sounded so different with the same electronics in different shops or homes. I fully understand why folks love them like I love the other lines. I get it, but they just aren't for me. There are only a couple of higher end speakers I'd purchase if I had the money as my room is tricky. Vandersteen's Treo CT's on up are the way I'd go again. When they are set up with the Ayre Twenty gear or Boulder or Audio Research or Aesthetix (all the electronics I've listened to them with) they just do most everything correctly. I have even listened to the D'agastino line on a couple of speakers and they too sound ok, but I can't see why they cost so much other than an amazing case and his name. They don't open up like the aforementioned amps.
DCS and Empirical Audio have been the best DAC's I've listened to (I own the Empirical Audio OSDE/SE). When listening to the highest of end speakers I have heard amazing differences in DAC's to, but that's for another thread. |
Cts it sounds like you have sensitive ears and a good understanding of how real music should sound. I also gravitate towards speakers which are coherent, well balanced and sound natural (ie: like real music). Avalon certainly fit that bill, and from what I've heard Vandersteen do also.
Magico speakers are fast, very resolving and overall neutral. They are what I call 'honest' speakers which are true to source, therefore careful attention needs to be paid to your upstream gear. The Magico S line is a bit warmer than the Q series and a bit more laid back in presentation, so they appeal to a wider audience. The S5's have only drawn me into the music paired with Vitus Sig series or Soulution amps. They seem to be an excellent match. I'd love to hear the new Vandy 7Mk. My Dealer doesn't carry that line, but it would still be fun. |
Check them out when you can. They draw you in while still being so honest. Big change in the mk 2 |
@melbguy1. Did you ever hear the raidho d5 |
Calvin, I've only heard the small Raidho C1's with Symaudio amps. They sounded smooth and clean, though there was some stridency in the top end (most likely due to green speakers). The D5's must sound amazing. My only gripe with Raidho is they are way over-priced for what you get as demonstrated by the huge dealer margins. I saw a pair of C2.1's on static display and thought the build quality was very average compared to Magico or YG for example. |
10-14-15: Ctsooner
Check them out when you can. They draw you in while still being so honest. Big change in the mk 2 Caxton Audio in Melbourne carry that line, so I might see if they're getting the Mk2's in so I can have a listen for fun. In any case, $62kUS is out of my price league & my Dealer does not carry that line. Incidentally, the Magico S7's are also a big change from the S5's & have lighter, faster hybrid carbon Nano-Tec/Nano-Graphene drivers & a diamond-coated beryllium tweeter. The cabinets and crossover have also been significantly improved. I might have a bit of news on that front soon ;). |
@melbguy1. I can agree on price issue. They did sound amazing though. I think the magico look like the have better build quality. I don't know if I will ever hear raidho with solutions again ever. Maybe at an audio show. I will love to hear the magico s 7. I like my music slightly to the fuller and darker side by a smigid without loss of detail. That raidho system gave me that in spades. |
In the end, loudspeakers as with music preferences are completely subjective. You should definitely aspire to own whatever makes you happy regardless of opinions on forums. If you like your music on the fuller and darker side, you could get that sound from Magico by using PAD cables & something like a Vitus RI-100. |
Mel guys is right as we all know. I just haven't been able to warm up to the Wilson's, Magico's, Raido's and many other top priced speakers. The ones using carbon seem to have a sound that I do like. The Be and Diamonds still don't do it for me. Implementation is most important of course. Magic is a great speaker for many folks as are Wilson's, but the sound to me it just a tad to bright still. The new Magicos and the new Wilson's with the cloth tweeter are better for my ear and I could own them, but they just haven't drawn me in and I've heard both lines in many stores now with many different combinations of electronics. That's just my ear.
As I've said prior,I didn't want to like the Vandersteen's either and not I own the Treo's and hope like heck to get the Quatro's soon.
Why do folks use cables to 'tune' a system or speakers specifically? Personally I just never understood that. Just get speakers you fall in love with and get electronics that work with the speakers. Cables make a bit of a difference, but once you start spending that extra money on them, you can possibly get what you want to begin with. Not saying they don't work, but even speaker designers will tell you that cables usually don't make as big a difference as to many feel they do. Just an interesting thing to debate possibly. |
@melbguy1 respect your opinion. Get what makes you happy. Just letting readers my know my observations. There are a 100 ways to get different sounds. We just don't all have the money to try something that doesn't work. I guess that's why people share on this forum. Either way we all figure what we like and try to get there based on what we know. Cable can make a difference they are a big part of the chain especially when you get to a certain performance level. In the high end like magico, raidho, Wilsons, etc. they are important. Feed the system the right thing and your system will be on steroids. Lol. |
Calvin, I also have not been able to warm to the Wilson speakers. To my ears the Alexia's have an airy top end and good sound staging, but have bloated, flabby bass which also smeared the midrange. I prefer Magico's sealed box approach which allows tighter, more accurate bass. Magico also have better build quality than both Wilson and Raidho imho.
I know what you mean about carbon drivers. Wilson Benesch, Proac & Vandersteen all use all-carbon drivers and are generally regarded as sounding natural. Speaking from my own experience, paired with Vitus or Soulution the S5's are capable of drawing me into the music. However to get the best out of them requires careful attention to detail. I've worked hard at building my system around the S5's for optimal synergy, incl: amps, front end, cables, isolation & AC power. The old adage "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" applies.
Though as good as the S5's are, I would say there are other loudspeakers i've heard which sounded more natural and did a better job of drawing me into the music like the Avalon Transcendents & Crystal Arabesque speakers with the RAAL ribbon tweeter. That's one of the reasons I am upgrading to the new S7's. Magico's latest drivers (incl: diamond-coated beryllium tweeter, hybrid carbon Nano-Tec/Nano-graphene midrange & new 10" bass drivers) are all lighter, faster & much better than the previous generation, whilst cabinets and crossovers have also improved substantially. From what i'm hearing, the S7's approach the complete sonic freedom and 'boxless' sound of the M Pro's which is high praise & just what i'm looking for.
Richard Vandersteen and Alon Wolf are both at the top of their game and building great loudspeakers which are extremely fast, accurate and coherent. It is hard to imagine anyone not being beguiled by their latest offerings incl: the Vandy 7Mk2 & Magico S7. The technology from the S7 will inevitably filter down to other S series models, as i'm sure will occur with Vandersteen. The winner as you say is we audiophiles.
As for cables, i'm not a fan of using cables to 'tune' a system, much as in the same way i'm not a fan of using 'tuning feet' such as the Harmonix to correct deficiencies in a system. Hence I use Jorma cables which are neutral in tonal balance and sound natural. Cables matter, and indeed I have a significant investment in wire. But I don't agree with those who elevate cables to the level of components. I don't subscribe to that point of view. Imho, at that level your money would be better spent on a component or speaker upgrade. |
