Completely agree. The way I look at it, most folks choice here was heard at a store or maybe a friends house. To me, that's on the person showing them. Audio is still all about a system and not just a component. I've heard the same speaker sound awesome at one place and like crap elsewhere. Yes, everything in the system matters greatly. Too many don't listen to cables or even amps.
The best speaker you ever heard?
In my opinion, the speaker is by far the most important part of the audio system. After all, it is the only part you hear. OK, the other stuff really matters a lot, but without a great speaker... No go.
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
2,090 responses Add your response
Magneplanar MG-20.1, Apogee Studio Grand (unfortunately out of production), Wisdom Audio L-75, MBL 101-Xtreme, German Physiks PQ-402. and then there is the Genesis G-1.1 ! The Genesis is the only system what comes close to real live music. i don't know any speaker with conventional dynamic drivers who can reproduce a realistic soundstage. i'm curious about analysis audio and i really want to hear the gryphon audio pendragon some day. but there's no better place than a classic concert hall or a church with a organ :-) |
There are plenty of dynamic driver speakers that deliver realistic soundstage. I personally haven't heard too many ribbons or panels that I can handle the elevated highs on. Again, personal tastes. I have Vandy's that crush the soundstage even better than my older Proacs have done. Large when it was recorded that way and very real. Have you ever heard the Vandy 7's? If not, you should give them a listen as they are some of the best sounds I've heard and I have heard tons of the larger speakers on the market and have for many years now. The Vandy's have sounded better for me than the Rockports I've heard too. Different speakers for different ears. |
08-13-14: After_hrs Absolutely! Amp rolling is one of the trickiest parts in my audio experience.... |
08-05-14: Lloydelee21Lloyd, is this the guy? http://marten.se/blog/2010/02/dutch-courage/ |
08-13-14: After_hrsYou raised a good point After_hrs. I've seen plenty of classic Infinity IRS speakers for example setup with cheap amps like rotel sitting on the ground with no isolation, cheap cables etc. I also recently read a review by Robert Youman who blew his budget on a pair of Magico Q7's which he is driving with a Vitus RI-100 integrated amp, PBD MPS-5 sacd player & VPI Aries turntable. He's using good cables (KS Elation) and good isolation (Rix Rax, Qpods, SRA), but the reality is with that setup his Q7's will be held back and he will never reach their full potential. I agree with this philosophy of using the best isolation and cables which are critical to getting the best out of your system, but that's about it. My view is yes, you need to invest a good amount of money on speakers which firstly have good synergy with your upstream gear and are capable of growing with your system as it evolves (which a good reference speaker should do). For my system I chose Magico S5's which are a good value high end speaker which tick all the above boxes. But unlike that Youman's setup, I stepped up to a Vitus SIA-025 integrated, Stillpoints Ultra 5's + Ultra bases and mostly recently, Jorma Statement sc's for synergy with my Prime ic's & pc's. I'm also using a better power conditioner imho (Gigawatt) and have a front end upgrade around the corner which will easily best the PBD. Once my system is finished, that reviewer's budget would still well and truly outstrip mine, however whilst i'm sure his Q7's would have it over the S5's in terms of linearity, authority and scale, I bet my system would give his rig a good run for its money. |
09-11-14: CtsoonerCts, you mentioned you've compared Magico speakers to the Vandersteen 7's and preferred the Vandys. Have you heard Magico S5's paired with Vitus Signature Series gear & good cables (eg: Siltech Royal Signature, Jorma Prime etc)? The commentary i've read suggests the S5's lose out little to the 7's, and even sound better in areas like tonality, body/texture and inner detail (especially in the bass). |
The only problem any of us really have is listening to speakers side by side. It's all about emotion to me. I know HOW I feel when listening and why I do. As for the cost of the Vandy's, the carbon drivers are hand made using balsa wood and YES they are worth it to plenty of us who have paid for them because we felt they have sounded better. I was a Proac guy for years and still like much of what they do. They are some of the only ribbons I even like. They don't convey the emotions. The Vandy's reveal just as much as 'detailed' speakers do and they soundstage just as well too as long as they are set up right. I just assume that stores are setting things up the way they are supposed to be and go from there. Electronics are a bitch to match. Folks just don't get it. Most just say "I want X amps" because they know the name and have been TOLD they are great. One reason I decided to go to a store where I trust what they say, was because I wanted them to show me what amps THEY liked best and why. I made my own decisions, but it was easy to hear why they liked various amps and sources. Do I still want more out of my system? Yes, but I don't have the money to buy the integrated bass that I'd love. I can't afford the top of the line Ayre gear, but when I can, I know my speakers will let me hear the upgrades in spades. I can listen to MIngus all day long and sometimes I do. Yes, piano is tough to make sound natural and they carbon midrange of the Vandy upperline speakers get it right. They are some of the only speakers I've heard that can do that to the mids AND still do everything else right that we all talk about. RARE breed indeed. I was a detractor until I heard them and that opened my ear. |
Ct, yes I understand that dilemma. It's hard to compare the Magico S5 to Vandy 7 as most Dealers carry either one or the other line, but not both. And show conditioners are never, or rarely ideal. I can see the money in the Vandersteen 7. Use of carbon-lined cabinets in particular would add a lot of cost. The Vandy 7's are a similar to Dartzeel amps..they are hand tuned for high performance and demand a lot from upstream equipment and careful setup. Vandersteen supplies a laser level for good reason as the 7's have a narrow sweet spot. But once setup correctly they can sound amazing. The 7's carbon/balsa drivers are not that dissimilar to Magico's carbon nano-tech/rohacell M380 midrange which uses extremely light and strong carbon cones with extremely lightweight rohacell foam as a dampening material. This midrange is fast, nails female voice and has wonderful tone, timbre and texture/body which to me is the essence real music. I'm sure Richard Vandersteen's mid does one or two things a bit better, likewise Magico's Q series mid shines in other areas. I agree that developing a good relationship with a Dealer is essential to getting the right advice & being able to sit down and audition gear to see what sounds good to you. At the end of the day, you only need to please one person. Btw, nice system and congrats on your Vandy Treo's! |
The best speakers I have heard have all been fairly easy to drive. Getting saddled with a hard to drive speaker is next to criminal in my opinion- if you can't play all the volume you want with 200 watts you are in big trouble due to something often called 'gold plated decibels'. The idea has to do with the fact that it takes double the amplifier power to increase the volume by 3 db which is not a lot by the human ear. The trick is that your amplifier has to produce musical power- and the smaller the amp (tube or solid state) often the better it might sound being the popular wisdom (actually I think our amps fly in the face of that, but they the unusual exception). So you might a musical amplifier that makes 200 watts, but how many are really out there than can make 400 watts or 1200? The fact of the matter is that if you want an amplifier of that sort of power that sounds like music, you can count the number of amps that qualify worldwide on your hands. In short, its impractical to have a speaker that requires a lot of power regardless of its price. I usually draw the line at about 86 db 1 watt/1 meter - anything below that is not really a contender for the best speaker in the world- the math simply does not allow it. Now keep in mind the difference between efficiency (which I think is a more honest statement of how easy the speaker is to drive) and sensitivity (which is 2.83 volts at one meter). If the speaker is 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms, subtract 3 db from the sensitivity figure to get the efficiency figure. So if you have a speaker that is 86db sensitivity and is also 4 ohms, its actual efficiency is 83 db. In my room, which is 17' x21', I need about 200 watts to make a speaker of 89 db play to a satisfying level. If I had a speaker as in the preceding example, I would need 800 watts to do the same job. If we flip this around, right now my speakers have 98 db, which means that I only need about 25 watts to do the same job right now. Its a lot lot easier to find a nice sounding 25-watt amp than one that make 800 watts!! So far impedance has not been explored but that too plays a huge role in the sound of speakers. Not directly, but it affects the amps playing the speaker, whether tube or solid state or class D. Essentially, all amps make more distortion into lower impedances, and the distortions that they make are higher ordered harmonics and increased IM distortion, both of which are easily audible. In addition, the lower the impedance the more critical the speaker cable becomes! Conversely a 16 ohm speaker is not critical of the cable, and all amps make less distortion driving the higher impedance. So if the speaker forces the amp to work harder, you will hear increased distortion. In a nutshell, such a speaker cannot possibly be the best except in theory, as in the real world the amps driving it won't sound like music- they will sound like electronics. If you like a nice hifi, this is OK, but if you want real music, this is something to keep in mind. Two speakers that I like a lot as they are easy to drive and are full range are the Sound Lab Majestic, which has gotten very easy to drive with a change that was made about a year and a half ago. The other speaker is the Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T-1.4, which is 16 ohms and 98 db 1 watt/1 meter and goes to 20Hz no worries. Rather than say 'this is the best speaker' I like to think about what speakers might be the top 5 or top 10 made world wide. These are two examples. Sorry to say, many of the speakers I have seen on this thread don't belong there IMO. Some do though... |
Melbguy, great post. Thanks for sharing. I listen to the Magico's a bit more now and have heard a few of their models, but don't remember all the numbers. With my MS, I can't always remember the model names. Some yes, some no. I usually remember the price ranges. I honestly am not sure if I've ever heard them set up properly. I think some dealers just have lines they like, but they don't always go great together. Even at the upper line of components I've seen/heard this at most shops. That's the biggest reason I drive 2 plus hours to support someone. I have plenty of shops near me and they are all very good and have good component, but I've yet to hear them at their best, so I wasn't able to hear what I want out of them, which is music. I want emotion. I recently heard the Genesis 2.2 and didn't love them. They sounded good and all, but the highs were bit too emphasized for MY ear and they weren't the most coherent. That may have been set up, but he said that he FINALLY had them dialed in. They just made everything we listened to sound BIG. Even Jazz at the Pawn Shop sounded like it was in a huge venue and it's a small place kind of like the Blue Note in NYC. That's what I listen for in some of these SUPER SPEAKERS. I honestly haven't liked any of the speakers over 100k that I've heard compared to the same companies speakers under 100k. I haven't heard all by ANY means, but I've been able to hear many within the last year or so. I have some friends who are well off, but not audiophiles and have no idea what they have other than something really expensive and big. I wonder how many of the engineers actually still hear lot's of live music these days. It's nice to have some great choices though. |
Interesting comment Ctsooner...I have heard a few people whose opinions I respect make a similar comment: bass integration and image size. I suspect the former is setup but the latter I cannot say. I was amazed by the Genesis 1.1s when I heard them. I don't focus on image size too much...I rarely even listen in the 'sweet spot' since its an open-plan place. Nevertheless, I can understand it is an important element...and if it 'super sizes' everything, that raises a few questions. if I ever get to hear them again, I will pay attention to both more carefully. |
Von Schweikert VR-4 MkII with the 5 mod from the factory. Clean sound, articulate, spatially accurate, intimately satisfying on small groups or solo. Sounds live like real music does. Real music like an orchestra the sound is a bit jumbled, separation in real life is an artifact. That's what I hear when I listen to VS VR-4II with the 5 mod. I have had Vandersteen 3asigs, 5 sigs, Usher, big Fried transmission lines called the Super Monitor. Electrostatics ML Source, Acoustat Mod 3s. Would not trade any of them for what I have now. |
Atmasphere, thanks for your informative post. I understand the logic of using the rated efficiency and impedance to determine actual efficiency, however in your comments you have not considered the phase angle and impedance dip of a speaker and how that can influence the load presented to the amplifier. The Infinity Kappa 9's for example had an amp-crushing 1 ohm dip with a severe phase angle which literally made many amps go up in smoke. Just my 2 cents. |
What's the price range of your modded VR4's? Your comment on real music is dead on. I've really noticed that recently in my changing out my system this past year. The other artifact is crowd noise in a live recording. It's actually backwards of what you would hear sitting in a crowd. That said, it's what we are conditioned to hear and what we spend forever trying to 'recreate'. Maybe we are all just nuts. lol. |
Far and away the best sound I ever heard was an Altec 604 that was all battered and driven by a two WE 205 tubed amp. I doubted I would ever find a second amp and so didn't buy it. What a fool I was. But now Exemplar Audio is going to have 604 copies. I'm eager to hear them, but have quite powerful BMC M2 amps. I don't think I want to go back to SETs although I have seven NOS RCA 211s and two NOS GE 211s. |
I can see what you guys all hear in SET gear, but I couldn't live with a main system of SET gear. That's my ear. I am pleased to hear that Audio Connections room at the NYC show in Brooklyn has been talked about as the best sound at the show. They had the Vandy 7's, AR pre amp, Basis tt, Lyra cart, Richards new amps and all top of the line AQ cables. I have the Vandy Treo's, Basis tt with Benz cart on a Gingko iso custom table Vu built for me, with Ayre electronics and upper line AQ balanced cabling and an 8' run of AQ Castle Rock bi wired. with Heed Quasar phono. John set it all up and it takes a back seat to very few systems. Again, it's all about what else is with your speakers. Systems built for your specific room is important. I've still yet to hear anything close to the Vandy 7's. I've been able to hear most of the speakers in this thread and some are awesome and would make me very happy, but at each price range, I like the Vandy speakers best. The other top speakers I've liked have also been first order covers and time coherent. No smearing that I hear on most other speakers out there regardless of cost. |
10-03-14: CtsoonerCts, speakers with first order crossovers have their limitations, requiring for example significant impedance correction. Also first order crossovers have a lot of overlapping bandwidth, leading to lobing issues/comb filtering, and increased power handling/excursion demands on the drivers. On the upside, there is minimal phase shift, though there is no free lunch here. Vandersteen 7's have a narrow sweet spot and are not easy speakers to setup, hence why they include a laser positioning device and numerous adjustments for the drivers. Conventional higher order crossovers are also not perfect, however in Magico's case, they use what they call "Elliptical Symmetry Crossover" technology which allows the use of steeper slopes with half the number of parts used in a traditional crossover, enabling Magico to use a simpler, higher quality crossover network. And indeed Soundstage (using the NRC in Canada) and Martin Colloms for Hifi Critic both concluded the S5 has superb measurements. You mentioned you have heard most of the speakers mentioned in this thread (including presumably the Magico S5), but preferred your Vandersteen Trio's which is fine. I've found the S5 to be a very coherent and well balanced speaker which sounds very smooth, a bit warm and very resolving. It has a slightly more laid back presentation than Q3 which I find allows for long listening sessions without listener fatigue creeping in. The S5 is perfectly phase coherent. Maybe not perfectly time coherent like the Avalon Eidolon Diamond, however I find the overall qualities of the S5 draw me into the music and engage me. The S5's drivers operate in perfect piston motion. Another important consideration is the S3 & S5 are easy to setup and integrate in less than perfect rooms. Coupling of the speaker to the room is a critical factor in how good or bad your system sounds. I would love to hear the Vandy 7's, though at a starting price of $52k they cost quite a bit more than the S5's. A shootout between the Vandy 5a carbon vs Magico S5 would be interesting and a fair comparison given the Vandy's twin 12" bass drivers vs the S5's twin 10's. I think the S5 would have it over the Vandy in the midrange and top end. |
Tonykay, I've owned Quads and even double Quads, the early Martin Logan, Accoustech, Infinity ServoStatics, etc. No panel speaker ever vanishes. At best they give you a sensation of listening to the recording studio through two windows to it. Secondly, the Quads, 57s or 63s have no bass and no woofers work with them as none can keep up. |
Tbg, no as with my S5's they don't need any augmentation in the bottom end. But my Dealer thinks really highly of it. The Torus is not a subwoofer in the traditional meaning. It works differently and is an "infrasonic generator" which improves dynamics and prat. The TAS review is a good read, though I can see from the specs that the Torus has had further development in the last 7 years which is to be expected. If I owned a pair of Magico S1's or S3's, or panel speakers the Torus would be a no-brainer as it is one of the only, if not the only "sub" which is fast enough to keep up with beryllium and true ribbon drivers, and is a relative high end bargain. |
Best speakers I've ever heard are now the FOcal Grand Utopia EMs in my living room. Rod Thomson performed a "Master Set" speaker tuning yesterday and the results took performance levels to a new high. Very impressive what these speakers can do, especially when properly set up in a room. Driven by VAC Statement amps and preamp, Esoteric p-02/D-02, High Fidelity and Hi Diamond cabling. Took years to put together - well worth the brain damage along the way. :-) |
It's just a fun thread. Most of us have said we love speakers that we DON'T have. We've all heard THOSE speakers and said, WOW, wish I could afford THOSE.....I've purposely looked for some of the speakers mentioned here. In the end though, I find it interesting to see that some folks have only heard mid fi speakers and some have heard some very high end stuff. it's just kind of interesting seeing where some folks are with their hobby. Again, no right or wrong answers. That's what makes this such a fun thread and why it's been running for so long. |
Tbg Understood completely. Thanks for the clarification. And I will also clarify something just in case it needs clarifying ... A gathering of data is just that, but with some bit of organization to allow for greater accessibility. In this case orders of magnitude greater accessibility. If one wishes to analyse such data they can then do so much more easily, but any gathering of data such as I proposed would be without analyses, hypotheses, assumptions or judgements related to a consensus. Just organized data. |
Tbg, you're entitled to your opinion, and clearly you have one, but a properly set up pair of ML CLX speakers disappear, not physically (of course) but you get the idea. For me, newer Quads can do the same thing. Electrostats can't move the same amount of air as a dynamic pair but they CAN create a holographic image in a room. You will certainly not get consensus on this, especially from those who are used to Altecs, but the experience happens nonetheless. |
Funny as stats and panels just have never done if for me. Way too hot when I've heard them and I've heard most of the TOL speakers. They seem to float the soundstage and almost always sound bigger than the actual performance was (yes, I've been in recording studios or recorded live on metal tape and heard the differences). Some folks love that sound, but in real life when you heard music live the panels won't usually sound 'right' for ME...That's just ME and not anyone else, so please don't take it that way. Some speakers are so detailed that they don't sound like live music either as most live music blends and that's what makes it sounds so awesome. We are also tricked by crowd noise as in audio we are the ones sitting on stage, but when you are live you usually are in the audience and hear the crowd noise differently. Just saying... |
Interesting comments regarding Quads. I have a pair of ESL57 refurbished by Wayne Piquet, and they are truly stunning. More than enough bass to satisfy my love of Jazz, Classical, etc. Even Prince sounds majestic through these. The realism of vocals, and acoustic instruments are beyond reproach. And yes, they do create a very realistic soundstage, disappearing on many good recordings. Also have a pair of Dynaudio C1 sig, and Proac 2.5. My Quads stand up to both quite well. More forgiving of poor recordings, and can listen for hours without fatigue. |
I heard one of the Gamut (Can't remember which model) floor standers at a London Hi Fi Show a few years ago. What a great sound - coherent, tight and everything so well controlled. I have also heard great things about Vivid Audio. Unusual speakers made in South Africa. Roll on the Munich Hi Fi Show, May 17th '14! |
Guys, I believe all of you. Years ago I heard some Maggies at my dealer (funny as four of the dealers I've spent a lot of money at have sold them, and they sounded good. They were driven by Krell KSA 250 I think it was. All Krell and top the line MIT cables. I still liked the Proac Response 4's better. I have only recently heard ribbons that I like too. It's just my ear I guess. The new Proacs with ribbons have sounded awesome with top tube gear and top analog and I liked some of the Legacy speakers with ribbons, but hated the model before them. I liked the large Clearwave Speakers I heard too and those are the top of the line RAAL tweeters. I totally agree with you guys on matching things. It's the same way with my Vandersteen Treo's or my for sale Proac speakers....or anything else out there. I've always realized who important electronics are. Most don't get it. They just think it's the speakers, but everything is so important. The thing is that if I hear something set up at a dealer it should be sounding close to it's best. How can they sell if it isn't? Should it sound better in your home? Hopefully, unless they have special rooms set up etc... Some do and some don't. I was at Audio Connections a few months ago and John had the newer Maggies set up with Ayre gear (the smaller panels) and I was amazed. They really did sound great for their price and size. They had a sub with them and I usually hate subs, but it integrated well. John knows how to set things up and sell them too. That said, as soon as we set up the Vandersteen 2's with the same gear it sounded better to me overall. Just more musical and cleaner. I think sometimes the back wave of the panels somehow smear things for me at times. I'm just very sensitive to something that others aren't. I have found many many speakers that are loved and raved about fatiguing. I'm also sensitive to phase and have found that many folks systems are out of phase and it's an easy fix. Again, there is a reason there are so many choices....I fully respect that others hear things differently than I do and visa versa. That's why I love hearing folks thoughts on components. Thanks. |
Only one pair has ever stood out through the years for me and left a lasting impression. Sonus Faber extremas. Massive soundstage from pint sized cabs which really did bass well, genuinely well. This from when Sonus were really Sonus and engineered speakers uniquely. They weren't the fashion victim marketing led curvaceous eye-candy of today, which I suspect is responsible for more of their sales than how they actually sound. The Exremas impressed with their transient speed, their lovely voicing (no pipe and slippers there), holographic like imaging and large soundstage. They really were capable of disappearing and leaving a musical stage of large proportions in front of you. Worked really well near field too. I now design loudspeakers for a living but would still love to have a pair of Sonus Fabers Extremas on my audio bucket list. |
Doesn’t the “best we’ve heard” depend heavily on when we heard it? When it is outside our control and comparison. When there is some sea change in our assumptions and perceptions where words fail us. For me, it was a pair of KLH Model 5’s driven by a stack of McIntosh tubes. I was just walking down the mall, passed by the storefront, and was captured by a tractor beam, unable to resist the pull. A similar experience came with Apogee Stages driven by the original VAC PA-90’s. I’m sure there were better, just as there are prettier girls, but love is a unique and wonderful response. |
