I prefer a good preamp and no power conditioner
The Best Preamp is no Preamp?
So recently I've discovered the possibility of completely removing my preamp from my rig. I've never heard or considered this before, so much audio tradition... But in going directly from DAC to amplifier the sound quality is absolutely incredible, instantly had me grinning. Using music server to Chord M Scaler to Chord Qutest (cut out Marantz SR5015) to go directly to dual Emotiva XPA-DR1 monoblocks, to GR Research's 24 strand speaker wire to Magnepan 1.7i's. Only difference is running volume on server vs Marantz remote, sound quality is the biggest jump I've ever heard with any gear.
Have you guys had experience cutting out the preamp from your rig? What's your thoughts?
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Technically speaking output from Dacs doesn‘t need further amplification: unless you have a weird input impedance for your power amp all that‘s required is a good attenuator. If your dac possesses a stepped relay attenuator rather than a digital bit-lossy attenuator the addition of a pre will only add distortion and the pre‘s specific voicing. |
Some direct drive systems MAY work if all the stars align. A preamp is designed to give your amp the signal it needs and in most cases they are a better electrical match than using a passive control or your source volume control. But like I said sometimes things work without a preamp...but don't count on it. |
this is a case where specifics drive the outcome, generalities are fun coffee table chatter, but are inconsequential what really matters is whether the source has enough capability to drive the downstream power amp well enough, and whether the built in volume control of the source degrades the sound many wonderful linestages add their own coloration, but improve drive and impedance match, thus compensating for the source inadequacy in that regard... most top tier pre’s pay close attention to high quality attenuation... so in the end, we pick the lesser of all evils in the op’s specific case, he has highly resolving speakers in the 1,7i maggies, an exceptionally pure and capable source in the chord stack - sonically this combo will be very very hard for any linestage to beat, unless the op seeks a specific sonic signature to be added, the marantz receiver in the chain is definitely a major major sound degrader 1 caveat and 1 question to op -- caveat is i have never heard the op’s emotiva amps, they certainly have the iron fist aspect to drive maggies, dunno if they also have the needed velvet glove to fully please sonically -- question is what is op using to control volume running qutest into power amps? qutest is a fixed output dac (sorry if i missed this if already covered...) |
Personal Experience, Trying many possible methods DAC to Amps with various Dacs and Various Amps. Final Conclusion: Pre-Amps is Required.
Some Dacs have Pre-amps built into them like Playback Design and MSB and various others. However much these companies claim their pre-amps are superior to use directly with Amplifiers the final results is never as expected.
The Pre-amp is the heart of the system, all devices are connected to it except the speakers. It either makes or breaks a good sounding systems. A Tube Pre-amp injects life and soul into the system, iv not had much luck with SS Pre-amps. |
I'm not a big fan of the "no preamp" school of thought. But I have had all manner of active and passive preamps come through my room and I am convinced that a well thought out system will benefit from some type of very good passive device. I've had autoformer, transformer, and conventional resistor based preamps but my favorite is something like the Tortuga Audio using light dependent resistors. This is about as close as you can get to no preamp, but solves the issues with component impedance mismatches. The take away is when you have sensitive, easy to drive speakers, enough source gain, and components that play well together, a good passive preamp is hard to beat. |
Experimentation is good ;-) ..but limited to a specific combination of gear, especially the ability of the source to drive the amp…. That gear as Ralph astutely points out includes cables. Putting a super high quality attenuatior near the amp input is probably best. The comment about super short speaker cables is master class ;-) You can get NOS Nobel potentiometers from Music Reference, search pot in a box, jim |
op this, as you can imagine, has been discussed numerous times on this board pls use search bar, find old discussions, which i believe you will find most informative @mikelavigne made a series of replies that i personally feel is the last word on the subject |
If you run short cables you can get away with this. But if you have monoblocks (which are useful for keeping your speaker cables as short as possible) then no so well. I've found that using balanced connections to the monoblocks and having short speaker cables got me better bass, more engaging midrange and easier to understand vocals. You can't do that with a passive- it allows the cables to color the sound. Quite often sources like a DAC can't handle long cables either. But I've found over time that the quality of the preamp has an enormous affect- and the length of the cables has nothing to do with it. Some are terrible- and so using no preamp at all is better, and some are great and actually sound a lot better when used. |
I'm using a TD124 a Decware ZP3 and MC240 cables to QSO 808 monitors. So simple. The gain is on the MC240. I was listening to a bunch of Al Greens old LPs yesterday. :-) I added a C20, either or was heaven, the difference was not just tone control but, a variable loudness, bass contour with bass and treble control. Did it make a difference? BIGGER :-) What a difference a preamp can make. Regards
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I've owned a couple of amps which had gain controls so I went direct from my DAC. I noticed a super black background and more clarity. It was an interesting experience. After awhile, music sounded too analytical so I added the preamp.
This is exactly what I've experienced. More engaging, yes.
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It is like not needing a power conditioner. It can work under the right conditions… but usually the best sound is achieved with one. If you are one of the special cases where you have really compatible and synergistic equipment and do not have analog inputs it is a great situation. Congratulate yourself on doing a good job. Most of the time you get a richer more engaging sound with a good preamp. |
