How (or rather why) did this 6 year old thread get resurrected?
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Own 2 sl1200’s w couple tweaks, and the mid 90’s 1210 black version.
old ones are oiled, cleaned, kept unplugged, then warmed up before use.
20-25 years on black. Never any issue, ALWAYS START AND STOP. I will be handing these down to family someday, I know they will work, I take,care of my stuff
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It looks like the VPI doesn't handle 78 RPM. Seems like the Sota does. I hadn't seen that when shopping a few years ago. I guess one of the top-of-the line Sotas might be in the same general league, then, as a SP-10R and what's better is probably a matter of subjectivity. I'm not immediately finding much hard data on Sota measurements. I think personally I tend to prefer direct drive, but I've seen a few belt-drive arguments that are somewhat compelling. As the owner of a SP-10R and highly customized plinth and set of tonearms, I'm not terribly inclined to dig further. The Sota factory is not far from me and seems to have a very good reputation, so I could see them being a good option for a lot of people. |
Any VPI with an SDS or Sota with its speed servo system can do that. Easy-peasy. |
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This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read. The top-tier Technics tables are world-class and are equivalent to or better than belt drive or any other table. I have a SP-10R, and I use the accurate-to-0.01 RPM pitch control every day when I transfer old 78s that were recorded anywhere from 70 to 90 RPM. You can't do that with other tables. If I need the table to spin at 38.38 RPM when I'm making a half-speed transfer, no other table offers the same level of speed stability, not even the six-figure ones owned by audiophile multimillionares. You couldn't pay me to own another table. |
Nah lewm.... Technics simply represents a bad memory from my distant past while their track record is not so great with several models. My response is more a momentary from-the-gut reaction couched in hyperbole. And, giving in to the brand most preferred by DJs would be a difficult association to live with. With that said, I believe Technics has corrected the sins of their past with some capable offerings. However, there are few features provided by Technics that cannot be equaled or bettered by belt drive TTs. For me, an ex-TT brand with a checkered track record is like an ex-wife....neither have warm spots in my heart. |
@jymc , Realy? Not to get into a heated discussion, I have an GAE, Thorens 126 & an EMT 948. All have their own signature sound. My GAE w/an SME 309 can sometimes give my EMT a run for the money with certain lp's. At the end of the day, the EMT is my go to table, & then my GAE. Come & give a listen. |
@lewm , Yes, I like my modded SL1200G with Triplanar arm. I also like my Kuzma TT. Two different sounds. Different TTs, arms, cartridges. I use a Manley Steelhead as phonostage for both. As for the LP12, It looks to be in decent condition. If someone could do it for local pickup, even better. The upgrade path, for the Linn is not real spendy at first. To really answer your question; We all like a change now and then. Two TTs provide that change for me. |
Just my opinion, 20 years ago, who thought vinyl would still be alive ? Now we have new TTs popping up all the time and more reissues on better vinyl formulations. Vinyl was supposed to be dead. I think, everyone into vinyl, should have at least 2 TTs. One belt drive and one direct drive. Just converted to DD in April of 2018. There is no going back. I see a LP12 for 2250.00- current bid 1901.00. I would snatch this up if I did't already have one.The Technics 1200G and 1200GR are the best value in new DD TTs right now. We have more used record stores selling new and used vinyl in Chicago than we had 10years ago. Plenty of very good TTs on the used market for decent prices. Support a dealer that can help you set it up before we lose all of them. No reason, not to take the plunge into vinyl.This is the new Golden Age of Vinyl. |
the thing is with the 1200G, vintage moving magnet cartridges on this table sound better than setups costing in excess of 10K. You can use MC cartridges on the arm but the older MM cartrs really shine on this table to the point that I do not desire the 3k and above cartridges anymore. Its that good. |
@djhappymike
I have a pair of Very Rare Limited Edition Pair of 24 Karat Gold Plated Technics SL-1200 GLD Turntables for sale. $7000 in great shape You're on the wrong forum. The old LTD series is just the same old technics pained gold, technically no difference. New Technics is completely different turntable inside. |
Thank you johnnyb53 for explaining the design and charter of the 1200 series tables as a high end machine. It was never designed to be a DJ table, it just happened to have yet a second application due to its durability and functionality. In fact DJ’ing would never have evolved along with the music if it weren’t for the 1200’s features. The Japanese had no designs on "disco" music when these were initially made. The direct drive lent a tunable feature for aspiring musicians. I know I’m repeating what you said above but it needs to be restated. Also, there is nothing wrong with the arm. The bearings, shape and materials are all top notch; the arm is among the finest ever manufactured. |
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@ grossman616-- your mention of the Peppermint lounge takes me back,, unfortunately I was a state away which should not of stopped me from going of course. The Lounge had all this cred and party flavor going for it back in the day and many who wanted to go probably didnt as well. I had to settle for going to Ripley NY for the bars with music et al just over the PA border Funny how your name reminded me of a Grossman that gradated the year I did in 63' Wouldnt it be a small world indeed if you were the same person and if your first name is Barry than its even more of a 6 degrees of separation event. lol. |
@sleepwalker65 The SL1200mkII becabe a DJ turntable because of the +/- 8% pitch control fader, none of the mentioned models has it. The poor isolation and bass feedback is the biggest problem of the SL1200mkII when it’s near the very loud soundsystem with powerful subs, but the best solution to get rid of it is Isonoe Footers But for home use it is not a problem. Without significant upgrade this model is a dark sounding turntable, nothing special. After upgrade it is much better, but nowhere near the finest SP-10mkII (the SL1600 and related models you have mentioned are just a toys compared to the SP-10mkII). @grossman616 Which Peppermint Lounde, not the original which was opened in the 60’s ? |
I was a DJ back in the day at the Peppermint Lounge in NYC. We had a pair of SL 1200's ( like the rest of the world) and they were bullet proof. They had Stanton 681- EEE carts that could take the riggers of being back cued and the challenging environment of Dance Clubs. The 1200's always worked, never broke down or gave me any problems what so ever. I never listened to them other than at the club either over the house system (lots and lots of Crown amps and I forget what speakers) or headphones in the booth so I can not give you real feedback on how they sound BUT they were (are) a well made pro-level piece of gear. |
There was a legit point though, how the brand has become tarnished by all the hacks and rapper “DJs” that don’t have a clue about why they think they need a pair of SL-1200mk2 turntables to make terrible noise with. Truth is that the esteemed SL-1200mk2 is not even what most morons think it is. Not that it’s a bad turntable, but it is the poor cousin of the SL-1600mk2 / SL-1700mk2 / SL-1800mk2, all of which provided the SL-1200mk2 with its tonearm, motor, platter and a few other odd bits. The truth is the SL-1200mk2 with its rubber base has nowhere near the isolation of the more sophisticated SL-1600mk2 / SL-1700mk2 / SL- 1800mk2. What is popular opinion, is often misinformation. The cult status of the SL-1200mk2 a good example. |
Yup, as I promoted earlier in the thread, it seemed obvious what the intention was by the OP. I'm hoping for fewer "hot potatoes" thrown into the middle of the room and then run like hell, pop the corn and sit back and watch the pyrotechnics. Reminds me of Trash Can Man in The Stand. The next time I see pawlowski6132 initiate a thread, I will remind members of this one. |
I hope most here noticed the OP was a "hit and run" artist. No comments on the replies one way or another. Not even a thank you for the information offered. So are they "missing" all the answers? All this a sure sign of a troll in my view. Just the same, it did stimulate several interesting replies. ;^) |
Ok, what am I missing? When I hear Technics turntables, I think Craigslist and DJ tables. What am I missing?I’ll tell you what you’re *not* missing--too much Kool-Aid--Kool-Aid from high end audio snobs, Kool-Aid from belt-drive snobs and from their chief missionary and evangelist, Ivor Tiefenbrun, who traveled the world demonstrating his rigged A/B tests between SL1200s and his Linn belt-drive turntables. His efforts caught on among cottage industry high-end loyalists and a new dogma was born. It appears to me that he saw the direct drive designs as a threat to the UK-based turntable cottage industry, which only needed an over-the-counter AC motor, a rubber band, a machined platter and a plinth. Oh, and a tonearm from somebody. There was only one way to do direct drive and that was with a lot of capital and high precision manufacturing resources. When the SL1200 came out, it was marketed and perceived as an affordable high end turntable, with nearly the torque of an idler-drive turntable but much lower noise. The SL1200 retailed at $350 in 1975, which translates to $1800 in 2018 money. The adjustable pitch control was on the original models, and *not* for dance clubs, which barely existed at the time. It was a high end feature for audiophile musicians who wanted to play back LPs at the correct pitch (such as Side One of Miles Davis’s "Kind of Blue") and play fixed pitch instruments such as piano, vibraphone, and marimba along with recordings of mistuned instruments. You can’t tune a vibraphone or marimba to match pitches with mistuned instruments, and it takes half a day to do it with a piano--assuming you have the training and skill to do it. Well, lo and behold, it turned out that the SL1200 had some desirable features for DJ-ing: It had high torque like the idler drives they had been using, which translates into a more consitent relentless beat for dance music; it spins up for the next song almost as fast as idler drive, it has a much lower noise floor than idler drive turntables (I swear, I could hear idler-sourced turntable rumble on FM broadcasts). And it has a strong, propulsive bass which makes it easier to dance to the music. This was a happy accident, not a targeted marketing plan, at least until the MkII. Once the dance club market adopted the SL1200, Technics designed the MkII with some features attractive to the dance market, such as big sliders (instead of tiny knobs) for beat and pitch matching. The direct drive with free-floating platter already had an advantage over idler drive for scratching. You can’t scratch idler drive when the idler is engaged and you can’t scratch belt drive at all. Nor is belt drive propulsive enough for dancing. So just because the Technics was *adopted* by the dance club industry does not mean it was worthless for its original purpose. And just because it became popular doesn’t mean it was flimsy and cheaply built. Quite the contrary. If you see them show up on Craigslist, it’s because they’ve been played and abused to near death, and yet are still functional with some parts and maintenance. The owners sell their old ones at shockingly durable after-market prices and replace them with new ones. |
@atmasphere The bearings in the Triplanar may be the hardest available, however the VTA tower is a little "loose" dont you think. Don't get me wrong I like the Triplanar very much and have a 12". I have devised a collar for the Tripalnar that stabilize the tower quite a bit. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9302b-pbn-audio-stabilizing-collar-for-triplanar-tonearm-superb... Good Listening Peter |
@atmasphere your criticism of Reed bearing can apply to the Kuzma 4 Point tonearm for the same reason? My Reed 3p does not have removable headshell and the armtube is not removabale: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18301114_1693549760663184_6688382727325888819_n.jpg?_n... Since the introduction of the Reed 3p they made 3 more different models with some great features: https://www.reed.lt/tonearm/ |
@chakster The Reed looks nice but its unlikely to have bearings as hard as those in the Triplanar, who has a security clearance to obtain the bearings they use (the bearing is the hardest metal bearing made anywhere; and Triplanar got investigated by the Department of Homeland Security because they use more of these bearings than Boeing Aerospace). Softer bearings tend to blunt with use; this causes the arm to have a limited lifespan (mysteriously goes out of adjustment over time). The VTA tower on the Reed appears to be a copy of that of the Triplanar, which first showed that technology several decades ago. But the thing that bothers me is the location of the bearings- they aren't in the plane of the LP surface, and while this makes the arm easier to build, it also means that tracking force will be lessened with bass notes and warp. Imagine two people carrying a couch; if going up stairs the one below carries more weight. If on level ground both weights are the same and vary only slightly on uneven ground. This allows for more consistent tracking force. I like the azimuth adjustment- the Triplanar has that as well. The removable arm tube and cartridge shell is also nice- except that when you are dealing with voltages as small as they usually are with cartridges, the less mechanical connections between the cartridge and arm, the better. |
I own a Prime and a Technics 1200GR. Each is on a separate system now so direct comparison is not possible; the 1200 is on the main system the Prime used to be on and uses a Dynavector P75 mkiii phono pre and the Prime uses a Parasound JC3+ phono pre. The speakers on the main system with the 1200 are Thiel CS2.4’s. Very revealing speakers, but the Technics is exemplary. I have no complaints. |
Hi Norbert @nkonor, I unfortunately can add nothing to my original post on the wonderful AFI FLAT: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/relaxing-records-for-better-sound-using-the-afi-flat A friend in Europe had arranged for one to go to a potential agent in Hong Kong and he knew I had a number of warped records so he arranged for me to have it first and I used it for 6 weeks. I flattened and heaps of records in that time and Relaxed a whole bunch of others. I wrote my review after that experience. I was so taken with the Relax function that I immediately ordered one from Europe. I also ordered some other equipment and the whole lot was meant to be bundled and sent to me. The FLAT has been paid for and sitting in Europe but there have been delays with the rest of the equipment. My model will not be the new one that you mention but one like I used before as it was bought way back. My understanding is that the efficacy of the old and new model is the same. From my experiences with the Relax function, as described in my thread, I am absolutely sold on it and cannot wait to get my AFI FLAT, hopefully in the next few months. There is no doubt to my ears and that of my friend’s as to the increase in SQ from this function regardless of whether the record is old or new and or perfectly flat. I hope you get yours and would be most interested in your experience. All the best, bluewolf |
I wound up selling my Sota that had been factory freshened and VTA installed and really wanted to use it and the belt would keep coming off and I frankly did not like the full manual mode. At some point I bought a SL-1600 mk ii off of ebay and sent it to a refurbisher in TN. I think it was.. who has since passed. A weak link in the system is a nylon or plastic of some sort gear that is elemental to the arm operation .. I bought a Rega 3 with upgrades and used very briefly and found on ebay of all places this restorer of Technics who had the gear that I needed. I sent him the table and he fixed it and its back in operation --the only table in here.. Suffice to say,, Im not playing enough vinyl but then I just recently moved to a whole new area in Cali.. surrounded by fires these days although lucked out and not really in a critical area where fuel for fires is plentiful. Makes for some very hot weather after living near the ocean all these years in the bay area. |
