Tariffs and sky high audio prices.
@ghasley Please consult this link and try to stay in the red:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States or tread lightly in the blue areas. Even in a vegetative state you's be quite engaging. 😄 All the best, Nonoise |
@nonoise My sides hurt from your post... I've instructed my wife that if I ever suffer from a brain injury, a degenerative brain disease or if I'm ever comatose to immediately turn on Fox News, the Kardashians or TMZ. If I fail to regain my faculties within minutes in order to turn them off, she has been instructed to move us to a state where assisted suicide is permissible. If those don't pull you out of a coma, nothing will. |
Well, I dared to click on that Breitbart link and lo and behold, a true believer of a foot soldier decries communism and totalitarianism in the halls of congress. Is he referring to Ivanka Trump and the more than 34 trademarks she got from communist China? Or the deals Trump is making with the Chinese on the side? Or Mitch McConnells wife, Chou, who’s father owns one of the world’s largest shipping lines representing communist China, and happens to be our Transportation secretary in the White House and deals with Chinese nationals at Mar-A-Lago? Or Mitch himself, who took $2.5 million from a sanctioned Russian commie thug for his reelection campaign and allowed that commie to build an aluminum plant in his state? Talk about Kentucky going red. Or is he talking about Trump’s love of autocratic communist leaders that he professes love and admiration for? Or could it be that the guy mentioned in the article is playing the commie card knowing full well that the intended audience (typical close minded FOX viewer) is not going question his lies? All the best, Nonoise |
My feeling is that while governments may compete hard with each
other and at times be angry with each other, those actions and
sentiments don't usually reflect what is happening at the every day
people level.
For the most part, people are people the world over. They want to live their lives, raise their families, be healthy, live as comfortably as possible and be left alone. On the other hand, governments ostensibly want to protect their people but seem to believe that to do so means that they must gain as much economic power and influence as possible...the natural result of which is that governments compete with other governments....and sometimes in ways that is painful to people. Where does that leave us...ultimately there is usually a recognition of mutual need. As an example, China doesn't produce much oil, not that they couldn't, but they do produce a lot of rare earth metals. The U.S. on the other hand does produce oil but has given up production of rare earth metals. So, we each produce what we are good at and then trade at fair value....or we each try to produce everything, including what we are not good at resulting in higher cost to both. Time will tell how well we figure this out. |
Pay taxes, pay tariffs, pay fees, do whatever it takes to give away what you earn. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/05/irish-funeral-firm-rents-out-four-limousines-to-trump-for-1m |
Even without any financial engineering they know how to do things. Just recently monthly fees for maintaining business account jumped from $15 to $25 per month without any explanation or extra service. That's Citi Bank. They probably got millions of accounts like that. Chinese tariffs ? Other banks are doing funny things too, there is no competition. And I was thinking about buying some Chinese tubes and a few capacitors. Now I can't afford them. You see what's happening ? |
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@oregonpapa Frank, you are an exceptional man and thank you for the contributions you make toward furthering the hobby. I wish the self employed were not slammed with both sides of the SS tax. I also regret hearing that your working days ended before you were ready. Me, I love my work and I hope that I get to continue until I'm ready to hang it up. @rodman99999 Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme, it has been politicized, mischaracterized by many and mismanaged from its optimal outcome but it is not your money. It is a tax on today's workers paid out to yesterday's workers. That's the deal that was made for us all 80 years ago and that's the way it goes. It is not a savings account that you somehow have a right to direct. No offense intended, but your math may also be incorrect. The example you cite shows the money growing at 5% compounded. While that is a safe assumption for market returns over time, it is not a safe assumption for a risk free rate...you would need to drop in the average return for TBills over that time to achieve that. Additionally, you are assuming that returns grow tax deferred. In order to purchase an annuity, the funds would have been taxed at the time of the annuity purchase, significantly reducing the buying power and thus, the payout. It would have been far wiser to purchase the annuity with annual payments rather than a lump sum at end of career, which would have required after tax contributions. Still might have exceeded the returns one gets from SS BUT, you also offload the risk that you buy your annuity from the wrong company and they go out of business or become insolvent. There is a reason the best insurance companies pay far less on returns in annuities because they are conservative and prepare for material market fluctuations. I retired a pension plan at my last job and we paid over $1 million more to purchase annuities from John Hancock when compared to the next company (on a $7 million dollar purchase). Hancock was the highest bidder but they were the highest rated for financial strength. (Oh, and as the fiduciary, I would personally be on the hook in the event of a default by the annuity provider, LOL) @inna Everything happens in due course. Most populations will eventually strike a good balance between the workforce and the overall good of society. You cite China and some of their poor practices and yet, they have come so far so quickly. Do they have a long way to go, I certainly think so but they are an economic anomoly the likes of which the world has never seen over the past 25 years. That will be eclipsed over the next 25 years. It was ok while the west built factories and profited but when the Chinese do it themselves it not ok? Listen, I don't agree with much of their human rights but they are better today than when the west was building factories there. Are they better because of the influence of the west or in spite of the west? @photon46 Thank you for the kind words. I love a good reasoned discussion on almost any topic. I learn so much, I really appreciate the opportunity. |
Working as an independent contractor for the last 40 years of my working life, I paid into Social Security 15% of my gross taxable income. I started paying in at the age of 14 and stopped paying into Social Security two years ago at the age of 78 when health problems forced my retirement. I haven't figured it out, but I may still be on the losing end of the proverbial stick. One thing for sure ... I wish I were still working. I never worked a job that I didn't like. I had parents that instilled a good work ethic into their kids. After reading through these posts, it is very apparent that we have a set of very knowledgable, intelligent and well-written members on board here. I love learning experiences, and it is very much appreciated by me. Frank |
@ghasley I thank you as well for your well reasoned and eloquent responses. A welcome relief from the tendency of most debate these days to devolve into real life versions of the movie "Idiocracy." It would be wonderful if all publicly debated disagreements were as logical, and level headed as yours. |
Anyway, are you going to buy equipment full of Chinese parts or not ? Or it depends, including on quality and price ? Mining practices, forced labor, abuses etc., remember ? Yes, you will. Chinese know it, they are clever, and they are cleverer. They also think centuries and millennia not short or even long term goals. |
@rodman99999 Regarding the gold standard: "Gold does not taste very good, even with seasoning. It generates no returns unless it is at someone else's expense" (ME) @jafant I buy gear made by Americans and sold by Americans, unless it happens to have been made elsewhere by people somewhere else. I believe in free trade and legal purchases. @nonoise I appreciate your words and agree with your post without reservation. |
@rodman99999 Now here's something we can agree on! Any S.S. monies borrowed by the politicians have to be paid back. Since when can they claim some form of bankruptcy when they created the mess? Bills were forced on Americans who tried to create jobs and business, and failed or were overwhelmed by medical bills, only to have no second chance but to repay, in full, plus interest, on their debts. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who had something like 7 bankruptcies trying to invent and create something that would benefit people. All the best, Nonoise |
@ghasely Agreed. A great corollary to what you just said was when a talk show host asked a German businessman why he paid so much in taxes and didn’t mind it. His response was that he’d rather be a wealthy man in a wealthy country, than a wealthy man in a poor country. The Nordic countries, where taxation is high, have a B.M.I. (a basic monthly income that guarantees a livable standard) and what used to be a minimum wage of around $20/hr so yes, they were and are more than happy to pay higher taxes since they’re covered from the cradle to the grave. They have the best outcomes in all measured areas, the lowest inequality, and lead the happiest lives on the planet. Americans who’ve worked in these countries were amazed at the quality of life, only to be back under stress when returning home. All the best, Nonoise |
btw:
Entitlement my BUTT, I paid cash for my social security insurance! Just because they SPENT the money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout. Congressional benefits(aka: subsidized healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days), now that's welfare! And someone has the nerve to call my SS payouts, "entitlements" ? |
Remember, not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too. It totaled around 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K, per year, over your working life, that’s close to $220,500. If you calculate the future value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer’s contribution) compounded at a simple 5% after 49 years of working, you’d have $892,919.98. If you bought an annuity and it paid only 4% per year, you’d have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month. The average S.S. recipient, since 2011, gets around $1200/month. The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madhoff ever thought of. And; they put HIM in jail.. |
The Chinese people are not the bad guys, their system simply doesn't value intellectual property or the rights of an individual. Be thankful they don't in the case of gun powder or pasta, since the Chinese invented these things among many others and did not patent/copyright. Jokes aside, intellectual property is a western concept. Inna, every society makes its own rules...trade or don't trade but the subject of trade should be a no whining, no resentment zone. If you must trade, then get the best deal you can and everyone just move on down the road. If someone breaks their deal, stop trading. If you can't afford to stop trading with someone then you have a different problem to fix. @oregonpapa Social Security is a nice concept but it would be nice if everyone would refresh on their history from time to time. At its origin, Social Security is a tax, plain and simple. The tax was imposed on the workers at the time and paid out to those too old/infirm and of a certain age. I dont remember the exact life expectantcy when payments began but IIRC it was scheduled to begin paying a couple of years PAST the average lifespan. It was never intended to be an individuals retirement plan. As far as someone dying before the got to collect all they paid in? Thats the way it works. It is equally as fair as someone collecting MORE than they paid in because they lived too long. As I stated above, the only fair way to do it is to pay you back all of your contributions compunded and you are on your own! Oregonpapa, doing some quick math, you would have lost out on that deal many years ago!!! Any way you slice it, if your present budgeting for old age/retirement includes social security as a requirement to make ends meet, stop buying audio gear immediately and save more money before you get there. Not because Social Security may or may not be there, it will be there. You should save more because it was never intended to underwrite your retirement, it was meant to supplement. I'm not going to begin taking distributions until they force me (presently age 70 I think) and even then, I will donate it to various good causes. I don't know if I will win or lose actuarily by waiting because I don't know at what I age will pass away. Once again, some people get a good deal, some don't, that's the why we look at averages. I have paid in the maximum allowable to Social Security every year since the 1980's. Most of those years I was maxed out easily within the 1st quarter. Now if I were like many I would grouse about whether or not I will get MY money back and whether it was a good deal for ME. But I choose to be a little more philosophical about it. My responsibility as an inheritor of my piece of this great country is to pay it forward...and backward! Backward in the sense that my contribution pay Oregonpapa because he paid for those before him. My responsibility forward is to be generous, enjoy my life, consume what I need (who defines need?), help those who are less fortunate and share a positive outlook with anyone who will listen. |
All of these falsehoods about Social Security when the real data is readily available. A truly sorry state of affairs. https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/info-2016/debunking-six-more-myths-about-social-security.html It will run out in 2034 but still be able to pay 80% of what you'd normally get if the present state of affairs remains the same. Just raising the cap on S.S. from to around 135,000 will extend the 100% payout about 30% further into the future. Before this year the cap was around $128,400 and this year it will go up to $132,900. Part of the problem was recognized. It's hard for me to follow and retain all the figures but it's not rocket science. It's policy. As long as you have one side of the equation believing that S.S. should fail (since they believe government shouldn't be involved), then they will do and say everything they can to ensure it's failure. Those on the other side of the equation, see a very simple way to keep it going, and under ideal conditions, double the payout and still be solvent forever. If the cap is removed, entirely, then you could double the monthly payout, which would be nice for those who've been robbed and deprived of their pensions. Also, if you grant a path to citizenship for the undocumented who already work here (and pay 10-12 billion a year in taxes for services they will never receive), you'll have that base that will pay into the fund, paying it forward. It's how our S.S. has operated since it's inception. Again, it can be done if you want it to work in your favor, or you can cut your nose off to spite your face, just to affirm some misplaced convictions. All the best, Nonoise |
rodman99999 writes: The only reason we have an economy; the US Dollar is currently the world’s standard currency. Too bad, it’s backed by nothing but trust that we can repay the debts, incurred by the government and owed by every American citizen, whether they’re aware it’s owed or not. China has been hoarding gold for decades(if not centuries) and it’s currency/economy is backed by gold. The US Dollar is backed by imagination("fiat money"). Just wait, ’til the rest of the world catches on, the Juan takes center stage in the world economy and renders your, "money" worthless. Keep your eyes open/coming soon, to a neighborhood near YOU(unfortunately/hope I’m wrong)! A lot of which is correct and shows he's paying attention. Of course its not the "only" reason we have an economy. Go back far enough, to the beginning, it was tariffs that made British and other imported goods more expensive, that in turn made domestic goods more profitable and led to decades of the strongest economic growth the US has ever had. With zero inflation too, I might add. (The cost of a bushel of corn was the same from the 1600's for 300 years! What came 300 years later? The Fed was created in 1913.) Lamestream media does such a good job delivering fake news that most people see gold as an anachronism and know pretty much nothing about how money works. Even though its hard to see the national interest in pretty much any of the many military actions we've been engaged in without knowing. One anchor of the USD is the agreement Kissinger worked out with the Saudi's to require payment for oil with USD. This created global demand to suck up the excess supply we created with our deficit spending. All that money creation without the oil payment demand and the US would have seen massive inflation. Instead it was the whole world that got the inflation. When you hear someone say the US exports inflation this is what they're talking about. Saddam Hussein started selling his oil for Euros. Can't have that. No more Saddam. We were told one reason. Anyone who understands monetary theory knows the real reason. Now you do too. The world, and the US, was just fine with Muhammar Qaddafi. Even when he started building nukes, Reagan sends him a message, what's one cruise missile between friends? But then he wanted to launch a gold coin currency for the Arab world. Way too close to home, he got it even worse than Saddam. In the end, so to speak. Both these guys by the way held many tons of gold. Gold that somehow disappeared. In spite of their territory being under US military lock-down. Yeah. Right. So who are the Bad Guys now? China and Russia. The two countries on the planet adding most consistently to their official gold stores. The two countries working most diligently and cooperatively to move the world towards trade settlement in currencies other than the dollar. China even has the nerve to start conducting actual physical gold bullion settlement in Yuan. As far as audio gear goes, it seems to me we will do just fine. We already have some if not most of the world's best high end audio manufacturers. If tariffs drive up the cost of cheap imports it seems to me we can look forward to even more great gear being made where it should be, right here in America. |
Back to gold for a moment. I'm not sure that it is good from the standpoint of backing currency....or from the standpoint of owning mines. Getting it out of the ground and turning it into 99% pure bricks has an operating/production cost in the $600 per oz range...now add the cost of buying the mining property, royalties and fees to the countries you operate in, reclaiming the land....and you are between $900-1000 per oz total cost. So, if gold were not a commodity but a product that sold in the 2x cost range ...it would likely be in the $1700-2000 per oz. For the last 10 years it has pretty much been in the $1300 range with a high of $1900 and a low of $900. |
Chinese will get us a free head replacement in no time. With Chinese heads. Then we will see things as they should be seen. And they know that no one is going to repay those debts, not a problem, they use money as a weapon and as a tool to absorb everything there is to absorb. So no, they are not enemies, they are a competing civilization. Imperial China is forever. |
I love this thread. I hope we can inject enough audio in it to keep it solvent. ;-) ghasley ... Thank you for your well thought out post. Some real food for thought there. You've made a good point about Social Security not being a "right," and instead, an "entitlement." One thing that was missed was any comment about those who pay in over decades and pass on prior to retirement age and get nothing, nor do their heirs. While I agree that many receive more than they paid in due to longevity, those who pass on early make up some of the difference. As of this date, there is no money in the Social Security trust fund. It has been "borrowed" to pay for other government expenses. Money taken (by force) from today's workers, are not put into the trust fund but are used to pay current recipients. Bernie Madoff comes to mind here. Do you consider Social Security a retirement benefit, or is it a tax? Is it a solvent government program as promised long ago by the FDR administration, or is it a Ponzi scheme of enormous proportions? Have you ever checked out the private system being used in Chile? Here are some links: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/chiles-social-security-lesson-us https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2018/02/02/the-overwhelming-case-for-chiles-private-social-security-system/ Take care ... Frank |
Canada's health system is actually quite admirable, and this is coming from a lifelong US citizen/resident. The health system there works quite well if you think of it as basically a huge HMO. Your description of "you have to get in line" is only applicable if you want the free version of the hip replacement. If you are willing and able to pay for it without expecting reimbursement, you can. Any Canadian who can afford it can get a new hip tomorrow in Canada, the USA, Switzerland...basically anywhere you want to go and pay for it out of your own pocket. It is a choice for most to wait for the free hip replacement. |
Thanks for the enjoyment of reading every ones posts. You people make me laugh and I enjoy coming to this site. Gold has not backed our currency in some time, that is nothing new. It is backed by the faith that we can repay the debt same as you having a mortgage on your home. A little over 70% of each dollar goes to pay the monthly bills of our government. Not much left over for our government buying a nice audio system! Someone mentioned going to China. Well if you are in the middle class your annual salary would about $8,000. @ghasley - if I remember correctly, you run out of your SS contribution in like 3 years of your retirement. But people are living 20 years after retiring. There is also the fact that there are less people contributing to SS versus people who are retired so there is a big drain there. I just had a client move to New Jersey from Canada. She told me that health care is free! 53 to 54% tax rate and if you need a hip replacement, you have to get in line as that is not a procedure that you can obtain quickly like here in the US. I pay high enough taxes but 53% ouch! Anyone in NJ/NYC area. We have a few planned get togethers. Let me know, |
@oregonpapa Thanks for the link. I have seen that article/treatise many years ago and its important for you to know that the version you linked has been edited...and its one man’s opinion: Alan Greenspan’s, and it was from the perspective he had then almost 20 years ago. This was prior to the dot.com bubble-burst and more importantly, prior to the great recession that his version of monetary policy contributed to to a large degree. If the answers were easy, then proper monetary policy would be easy and everyone would adopt the same policies worldwide...unless they were trying to solve different problems ie:tipping the scales their way. I offer this opinion with the deepest respect I can extend to you that everyone’s opinion deserves the same objective examination. At its very root, once people have savings/resources, they want to protect them, especially if they are aging. I get that. Many want no taxes while expecting government programs to take care of their needs in their old age (health, safety, transportation, social security, etc). They don’t want to deploy resources to help others in need, be they domestic or foreign, and yet many fail to recognize that failing to help others comes with immense costs domestically (law enforcement, prisons, crime, insurance, healthcare, the lack of an educated populace) and its immeasurable if we fail in foreign generosity (war, famine, trade, health crises, religious extremism) not to even mention the morality of failing to do the right thing for your neighbors. I hear many speak of Social Security as their right...the I paid in mentality. Maybe everyone should just get a check for the total amount they paid in compounded at the average rate of inflation over that period? Its then that people will sober up and realize they don’t pay anywhere near as much in as they get out in terms of real dollars. the same goes for other services: healthcare, education, etc, etc. Many on this site pay enormous amounts of income taxes, 6 or 7 figures per year. They are rarely griping about storing their wealth and "protecting their savings" from the "welfare statists" as the article mentions. The paranoid who read "investment" services like these need to understand clearly they are playing on fear because they only offer one service for sale: selling gold to extremely scared people. A balanced portfolio (not in a mattress) of equities, bonds and real estate will always outperform gold over time. A proper society can’t tax cut its way out of its challenges any more than it can tax its way out. The circuitous route in this post is to say that there are many levers in an integrated economy, just like in audio. Change a cable, a component, etc and everything else is affected. Greenspan is brilliant but Bernacke saved the US economy from ruin. Neither are absolutely right and neither absolutely wrong. Now what? |
Here’s some gold leaf food for thought on why the gold standard wasn’t much of a standard to go by: https://www.moneyandbanking.com/commentary/2016/12/14/why-a-gold-standard-is-a-very-bad-idea All the best, Nonoise |
^^^ ghasley & nonoise ... Here's an essay that spells it out pretty succinctly: http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/Greenspan.html Frank PS: nonoise .... You would be more than welcome at my place. The system is sounding incredible at this point. The multitude of tweaks have had a cumulative effect and has brought the system far beyond what I ever knew was possible in a "modest" system. PSPS: ghasley ... the diamond issue is truly unbelievable. We are in agreement there for sure. |
@oregonpapa Thanks for the offer of a listening session. I rarely get out but if and when I decide to hit the Ventura area, I'll give you a ring. Alas, I have to agree with @ghasley when it comes to our monetary policy. Living in the past is a fine way to reminisce but it's an untenable argument to enforce such regulation based on today's way of doing things. All the best, Nonoise |
Monetary policy can be pretty complicated and frankly, who cares if the dollar is backed by gold or not. The whole premise of gold backed currencies is the promise that its backed by gold. You can always take all of your cash and buy gold(or British pounds, or the Euro, etc), still a free country. The US population has almost doubled since 1965 and if dollars were finite(as defined by being backed by a set amount of gold), you would have a crazy supply/demand imbalance. Lastly, I don't necessarily want to hold commodities where other humans are grossly exploited to mine it. Sometimes there's no alternative (some rare earth materials are inhumanely harvested, some not). The mining history on the African continent is bleak (and originated by non-Africans) and don't get me started on diamonds. Its awesome that in 1965, housing was so affordable. The post war boom in Cal and elsewhere made alot of people who purchased real estate look pretty smart. At the end of the day though, the neighborhood where you purchased was probably red-lined to people of color. The good old days were not that great and the best of times lie ahead. |
rodman99999 ... You are exactly right in every respect. There is a reason that the money issue isn't taught in our government schools. It has been said that if Americans were to ever wake up to what has been done to their money, there would be a revolution by morning. Look at the effects ... In 1965, at the age of 25, I bought a brand new home in Huntington Beach, California. I paid the grand sum of $24,750 for it. My payments were $147.00 per month, and that included taxes and insurance. That same home today would top $600,000 easily. The question is ... did the value of the home increase, or did the value of money decrease? I suspect by your above post that you know the answer. :-) And by the way, in addition to that new home, I had two cars, one of which was new. It was a 1965 Plymouth Belvedere hardtop coupe with the 383 engine. I bought it right off of the showroom floor for $3,500. I had two kids, and my wife stayed home with the kids as a full-time Mom. It wasn't necessary for her to work. What did I do for a living that afforded all of this? I had a bottled water route and worked on a 100% commission basis. One of the last of the hard physical jobs. They still guard Fort Knox, but not to guard the gold. They guard it to keep the secret that there is no gold left in Fort Knox. Here's a good book for those interested to read: https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Creature-from-Jekyll-Island-A-Second-Look-at-the-Federal-Reserve/192932931805?epid=111597646&hash=item2cebb2e8dd:m:mDRwSYEPazkKkqKmNBMs1cQ Frank PS: Even though I'm a good cook, I no longer have dinner parties. But, if anyone is interested, give me a heads up for a listening session. If anyone is going to the Long Beach show this coming weekend, give me a heads up. We'll be there on Saturday and we can tip a beer together. |
@oregonpapa - The only reason we have an economy; the US Dollar is currently the world’s standard currency. Too bad, it’s backed by nothing but trust that we can repay the debts, incurred by the government and owed by every American citizen, whether they’re aware it’s owed or not. China has been hoarding gold for decades(if not centuries) and it’s currency/economy is backed by gold. The US Dollar is backed by imagination("fiat money"). Just wait, ’til the rest of the world catches on, the Juan takes center stage in the world economy and renders your, "money" worthless. Keep your eyes open/coming soon, to a neighborhood near YOU(unfortunately/hope I’m wrong)! (https://www.rt.com/business/453600-china-gold-dollar-shift/) (https://moneyweek.com/499249/how-much-gold-does-china-have-a-lot-more-than-you-think/) and (https://www.dinardirham.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-fiat-currencies/) |
nonoise ... One thing we can agree on is the fact that you and I, and others on this site, enjoy one of the greatest hobbies in existence, and that is the recreation of music to the highest degree possible in our own homes. If you lived within driving distance, I'd love to have you over for a listening session. Frank |
Yeah, we better not go too far or the moderator will cancel this thread in no time. I'll just say that they are not our enemy unless we make them so. If we go into fair and unfair and how it all comes into being it will become increasingly interesting and unflattering to anyone on all sides of all oceans at all times. |
