Tariffs and sky high audio prices.

Admin, you da boss. What you says goes. 
No harm, no foul. 

All the best,
Nonoise

I would agree that this has been an enjoyable discussion to follow. We have multiple knowledgable people weighing in on the topic and the level of discourse has been generally respectful and civil. Quite interesting how intelligent people can be given the same set of facts and interpret them so differently depending on their worldview and personalities.

Regardless of how one views the points discussed so far, I wonder how or if the two personalities at the fore of the trade dispute will resolve the matter.  Mr. Xinping has amassed more personal power than any leader since the communist party turned away from Mao style "cult of personality" leadership. If things go south under his watch, it will be much harder for him to spread the collective blame around. Two monumental egos with distinctly different agendas and time frames in which to act.

@admin

Understood and apologies. Quick question: It’s ok if we bash @inna isn’t it? Even HE would join in I’m sure.

In all sincerity, thanks for running such a great resource for us all.

Appreciate the fact that you guys want to discuss politics but this is not the place especially if you are bashing the President of the United States.
Please take the topic back to audio or this thread will be closed.

^^^

Oh, oh ... I don't know what that means. As stated in an earlier post, that stuff doesn't compute with me. 

Can we keep this thread alive by concentrating on inflation, the money issue and how they relate to the audio hobby? Sheesh!

I'm looking forward to the Long Beach show this coming weekend. Should be tons of new equipment there with outrageously inflated prices. Anyone else going?

Frank

Trump has only one flaw - he is not Jewish.

HILARIOUS!

I was out for an hour and the snowflakes were busy: another post deleted. We have some real haters here. They can dish it out but can't take it. Please, own it and admit it, but don't go running to the mods with your panties in a bunch.

All the best,
Nonoise

Presidents are not supposed to be like most men. Gosh, I knew if I waited long enough I could contribute to this thread. 🤗

^^^

Most presidents, like most men, are flawed. We can itemize the flaws of each if you wish, but it would be a very long post.

Frank 

^^^ And as Kipling said it the poem I posted ...

 "As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!"

Frank

@inna 

I'm not sure I understand your post - "In other words, do something more than babbling on Audiogon."

I want to come back to something ghasley said:

The dollar is the world’s reserve currency because oil is traded in US dollars. Also, ask England what it’s like to be the world’s FORMER reserve currency. If we think it can’t happen, it’s likely already happening.

Correct. Good point about England. And yes, it is indeed happening. Right before our eyes.

Prior to WWII the world was on a gold standard. The meaning of that is even more distorted than globalist so for the sake of clarity let me explain exactly what that means.

The gold standard I am talking about was a voluntary agreement between nations to settle their trade balances in gold. Most countries at the time used silver and gold coins within their borders. But even if they did not they would have to settle trade deficits or surpluses with other countries by physically shipping gold bullion.

Naturally, any nation running a big trade surplus was taking in and accumulating more gold. As the gold available to buy imported goods becomes more plentiful then you could buy more imports, which to the extent that happens there goes your excess gold. Meanwhile, any nation running a trade deficit would be in danger of running out of gold. As the gold available to buy imported goods became more scarce the motivation to produce at home became greater, and more cost-effective. With no one able to create gold artificially the system is beautifully balanced, self-adjusting, and voluntary.

The US accumulated some 24,000 tons of gold. Financially, militarily, and in pretty much every other way the US emerged after WWII the strongest country. The world began trading in dollars- except not really dollars, as after 1913 the currency went from gold and silver to Federal Reserve Notes.

A crucial distinction. Because while the formerly used gold could only be produced by enormous effort finding, digging, refining, the new counterfeit FRN can be created at almost no cost on a printing press. Boggles my mind people don’t comprehend the significance. This marked the beginning of perpetual US deficit spending.

By the 1970’s the world had been accumulating trade surpluses with the US and redeeming our paper FRN’s for gold bullion to the point where US gold had dwindled from 24,000 to only about 8,000 tons. Paper you can print but gold you have to dig. Faced with the all too present reality of the US running out of gold Nixon took the "temporary emergency" measure of suspending gold convertibility.

Watch the YouTube video. Blames it on traders. Right. Politicians and bankers were to blame. Each in equal measure. Okay mostly the bankers. Whatever. Beginning of the end. Then go watch the Charles De Gaulle address.

With that history now finally we get to ghasley’s remark. No longer backed by gold the US needed something or the world would abandon dollars. If that happens, who needs dollars, they all come back home. Inflation skyrockets. Economic disaster. The US imperative was to create global demand for dollars.

The deal was the US would agree to protect Saudi Arabia with all our military might if the Saudi’s would require that oil be paid for with FRNs. This new global demand assured the US would be able to deficit spend for decades at a level that would otherwise have been massively hyperinflationary.

This is where the term petro-dollar comes from. With every country depending on oil that can only be bought with dollars they all had no choice but to save them. The world reserve currency was born.

Again, for those who missed my earlier post, the vital national interest Saddam Hussein threatened was to sell oil for Euro and not dollars. Iran, same deal. Now China. Not only that, but more countries are doing more trade directly, bypassing the dollar. Highly recommend people who want to follow and understand what is going on bypass the fake news and get in the habit of following news sites like zerohedge.com as you will see hardly a week goes by without some development in this area.

The magnitude of these markets is such that even as fast as new developments occur we are still a long ways from the inevitable hyperinflationary collapse. But it is, as ghasley says, already happening.

Back in the day, we kids in grammar school were given copybooks in which to practice our handwriting. (Yes, we learned to write in cursive back then).

Each lesson in the copybook had a heading that had to be copied over and over until the handwriting was perfect. The headings were truisms, and the idea was to not only practice our handwriting but in addition, to burn the truisms into our subconscious minds in order to develop us into good citizens.

Rudyard Kipling wrote a poem about copybook headings to illustrate just exactly how societies crumble and fall. I’d like to share it with you guys:

• The Gods of The Copybook Headings

As I pass through my incarnations in every age and race, I Make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market-Place. Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall, And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn: But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision, and Breadth of Mind, So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace, Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market-Place. But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch, They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch. They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings. So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace. They swore if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease. But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe, And the Gods of the Copybook Heading said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life (Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife) Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith, And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all, By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul; But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy, And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don’t work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew, And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four -- And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man -- There are only four things certain since Social Progress began -- That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire -- And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins, When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins, As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

--- Rudyard Kipling - 1919

Frankly, the primary reason America exists is the basic premise that the majority must fight to protect the rights and freedoms of the minority. We haven’t always honored the spirit of this, but its an ideal worth chasing.

Our privilege to lead others internationally is granted, its not to be purchased, taken or demanded. To have a friend, be a friend. To get a square deal, you must give a square deal. Back to third grade right?

Have faith, throw away that Chinese, European and American transistor junk and get NOS tubes with equipment to match. Renounce digital too, it has no real value and leads in the wrong direction. In other words, do something more than babbling on Audiogon.

It would seem that since then, individual selfishness has resulted in the will of the minority taking precedence over the will of the majority and has resulted in political parties caring more about the power of the party than the good of the people

Perfectly stated. Our founding fathers called these types of parties, factions, and were to be avoided at all costs. It happens when the wealthy pollute the politics with their goals and desires at the expense of the less well off.

I remember when Richard Dryefuss was on a talk show (Politically Correct?) long after being an actor and on hiatus teaching American Civics and the Constitution over in England, and he said that if we’re not careful, this 200+ year experiment in democracy will be nothing more than a memory if we don’t work to keep it. It will just be a shining blip in the dark history of mankind.

All the best,
Nonoise

Once upon a time, many years ago, back in 1961 a man of power and influence said, "And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world, ask not what America will do for you, but what, together, we can do for the freedom of man".


It would seem that since then, individual selfishness has resulted in the will of the minority taking precedence over the will of the majority and has resulted in political parties caring more about the power of the party than the good of the people.

Some would say that this is just history repeating itself...that this is the fall of the Roman empire all over again.  It is hard not to fear that all may soon be lost (from the standpoint of America as a symbol of power being used for the good of all people) if we are unable to change our direction...both as individual people and as a country.

I don't anticipate an awakening. Do you ?

Trumps have no interest in manipulations to make money I am sure.....

The US is numb to many bad things these days.   Crime, shootings, corruption, you name it.

As I recall, it all started with this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Downey_Jr.

mhdt DACS are wonderful sounding, reasonably affordable, and made in Taiwan I believe.   Would hate to see those affected.

This administration was elected by 60 million Americans. What does it tell about them ? And it is not worse than Clinton cartel. 
I asked about free Taiwan, anyone knows anything about them in relation to audio ?

I think that the administration is simply making turmoil in order to manipulate markets for its own aggrandizement. It's good to be the king. 

Taiwan. I heard indistinct noises that Purist Audio conductors are made there. Good stuff. Taiwan is a very different place. Do they also make tubes and other parts? They are very high-tech.

The only upside to all of this is if they shut this thread down, we'll all have to listen to our stereos. Heaven forbid!

But like all good topics too good to ignore, it will rise like a phoenix, metamorphosed in a different guise, and soldier on, revealing all the ready and willing actors waiting stage side.

All the best,
Nonoise

inna

I am trying to influence the moderator, stay quiet and don’t interfere, leave it to me.

Sorry, but when you drop an F-bomb into the group, that’s the kind of behavior that prompts my interference and report to the moderator.

Most of this has nothing at all to do with the thread topic, and does not relate to audio in any way.

That crafty art of the deal guy is going to make us the best tremendous deal. We will win the Tariff War bigly.
So, judging from what little tax records he could not conceal, we find out that he lost more money than anyone in recent American history. He would have been crowned The Biggest Loser.
And as far as Paul Krugman is concerned, most of those I have seen criticize him support supply-side economics. This is a strategy that is based on myths that have been proven wrong. Supply does not inherently increase demand, and giving huge tax breaks for the wealthy and billion dollar corporations results in a glut of cash taken offshore to avoid taxes.
Simply put the middle class drives the economy because they spend the money.

I am trying to influence the moderator, stay quiet and don't interfere, leave it to me.

@oregonpapa 

Very well said and 100% agree. What we long for is the FEELING of security and the sense of order that SEEMED apparent during those times. The Rodney King stuff was crazy wasn't it...humanity, it's a perilous cauldron.

I'm sorry it turned into pro-Trump/anti-Trump, if only for a moment. I've never thought he was a bigot, just insensitive to a degree never seen from our leadership. I believe he is petty and childlike to a degree never seen from our leadership, although one only need listen to a fraction of the Watergate tapes to see that like many things, Trump isn't new or unique. Many thought by electing someone wealthy, that personal gain would have been off the table. That's a reasonable assumption. As I've stated earlier in this thread, we all know alot more than was possible prior to the 24 hour a day news cycle with instant internet searches at a keystroke. Hey, in my lifetime, the press pool would collectively keep mistresses out of the conversation. Imagine that today.

@inna 

It is certainly within Audiogon's purview to cancel any thread they choose, which you likely know more about than many. Why are you so angry? You drop profanity and snide comments repeatedly. How unfortunate. 

I think it should go on. It's not down to the level of YouTube banter and still is incredibly civil. It's the one sided censoring at what would seem the behest of those who want it ended that entertains my thoughts as of late.

Wasn't there a thread that was deleted that a certain someone wanted to keep going that traveled the same route as this one? Is it ownership of the thread or the content that irks?

Better minds need chime in before fate intervenes.

All the best,
Nonoise

Madame moderator,
Would you please cancel this senseless discussion ?

Ghasley sez...

"Yeah, things seemed so simple in 1956 but it wasn’t all that great if you happened to be non-white."

Yes, the world in 1956 was quite different from today in many respects, including race issues. Banks and Realtors redlined neighborhoods. Black folks couldn’t get credit. Minorities worked mostly menial jobs, usually at hard labor. From that standpoint, this country really sucked. The civil rights movement in the South started the turn-around there. The Watts riots in Los Angeles finally woke people up here in California. As for me, I have never understood racism. For some reason, it just doesn’t compute in my brain. I imagine it would be hard for young people today to get their heads around the fact that we actually had a president that locked up over 100,000 Americans in internment camps based solely on their race.

Frank

If he is not a globalist, why is he trying to make deals with other countries?

We need more civil discussions like this in more places, not less.

As long as things stay on topic, remain civil and do not violate the posting rules, one would hope posts do not get zapped.

That was quick. Pro Trump pablum is allowed to remain but anti Trump voices are censored.

What's next? MAGA hat ads? Is Springtime for Trump just around the corner?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPXHRX8Q2hs&frags=pl%2Cwn

All the best,
Nonoise

It’s easy to say you are or are not something. But the facts need to support the claim. Trumps business history is that of a globalist. But that will not sell well to his base so he now says he is the opposite a nationalist. He will say whatever he thinks will sell himself best that day. Means nothing. Always follow the facts and money, not words.

Right now he is a very unsuccessful globalist politician trying to strong-arm others to accept his deals.   Nationalists love that!   We’ll see how that works out...

Okay, I think I see the confusion now. You guys seem to think globalist is the opposite of isolationist. Like the minute you do or even think about anything outside your own borders you're a globalist. Totally missing the point.

Read the definitions again. Two key elements: advocates; and "on a global basis."

Where has Trump ever advocated doing anything "on a global basis"? Not a day goes by he hasn't repeated that he's working in the best interest of America. For American's. Of course at any given time he can be talking about any country on the planet. Duh. That is not the point. If it was then the term would lose all meaning.

Which on that score there's actually a really fascinating reason why you guys so often misuse language in a way that is imprecise and blurs reality.

Maybe we get to that one later. For now, again, it should be obvious Trump is the opposite of globalist. Trump is the anti-globalist. And it would be nice to know that fact is acknowledged.

IT’s not at all at odds with America First. One always looks out for themselves first in any interaction. However good deals tend to be mutually beneficial.  You can’t just look out for yourself and expect a "good deal" Maybe with a gun to the other persons head but you will likely regret that later.

Right. Which is completely at odds with America First. 

glob·al·ist/ˈɡlōbəlist/Learn to pronouncenoun

1. 1.a person who advocates the interpretation or planning of economic and foreign policy in relation to events and developments throughout the world.

adjective

1. 1.relating to or advocating the operation or planning of economic and foreign policy on a global basis.
   
   

Pretty hard to not be one as defined these days. Maybe Kim Jong Un. Some aspire to be globalists but only if they get to call all the shots which can never happen. Sound familiar?

Trump has business interests in Ireland, Scotland, Panama, Canada, Turkey, South Korea, United Arab Emirates, India, Russia and quite possibly, a few more than publicly stated.

Okay. Well then we have different definitions of globalist. My understanding of globalist is one who is working towards the goal of one world government. You seem to think having private business interests internationally makes one a globalist.

In this case it would seem I get the better of the argument. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/globalism
Would you consider revising your previous statement? And endeavor to be more accurate in your use of language going forward?

The dollar is the world's reserve currency because oil is traded in US dollars. Also, ask England what it's like to be the world's FORMER reserve currency. If we think it can't happen, it's likely already happening.

If we aren't citizens of the world, we can't influence the world. There used to be some unanimity when our president was referred to as the leader of the free world. Now it evokes nervous chuckles. Others will still deal with us for the near term because its good business but the benefit of the doubt we used to receive when we took the road less travelled has eroded. "Halt the spread of communism, human rights, WMD's...."

Yes well it is the dyed in the wool globalist who got us out of the globalist Paris climate accord, and NAFTA, and supports Brexit, is dead set against open borders and is in both word and deed a staunch defender of national sovereignty. He's given a number of speeches on the subject going at least as far back as the campaign. For thirty years at least his every public comment on the subject is consistent. Even his campaign slogan, Make America Great Again- America. Not the globe. America.

His action is consistent with his words.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, as the saying goes, not their own facts. Sorry if that strikes you as snide, but it really is tiresome, all the innuendo and shifting and dodging.

Do you have any facts to back up your opinion that Trump is a globalist?

Great discussion to wake up to, even with the expected snide remarks (looking at you, millercarbon) 😄

Great and level headed points from all even if there is disagreement. Were did all the comity come from? If only it could always be this civil.

The one boogyman that I want to address is the supposed hold that China has on us and how they can trigger something awful should they choose to do so. It's not so.

As of now, China holds about 5.6%% of our debt, Japan about 4.8%, and the rest of the world, about 18.9%. Whenever anyone sells off our bills, it's immediately scooped up by someone else. We are still the big dog and will continue to be world's reserve currency for the long term, foreseeable future.

China can't knock us down by itself: it would take every holder of US debt to collectively band together against us and who better to make that more than a passing thought than that certain someone who claims to be a nationalist but is a dyed in the wool globalist with business interest all around the world and acts like the world is his personal ant farm.

China needs to maintain larger reserves of US debt to prop up their currency (renminbi). Some even go so far as to describe China as a paper tiger that can stumble faster than Japan did with their downturn a couple of decades ago, not to mention what Asia, as a whole, went through in the late '90s.

China is doing now what we did back in the Savings & Loans scandal when we built more buildings than could be occupied, played fast and loose with regulation, and severely hurt the economy, setting the stage for the likes of Enron, pension theft, and one side of our political spectrum modeling themselves after the Soviets what with the denouncement of government, gangster capitalism, privatization of the commons and utilities, the rise of mercenary armies, and growing inequality.

It's a wild, wild, wild, wild, world.

All the best,
Nonoise