If you listen to mostly records, then the turntable/cartridge is the first thing to do. I say that since I have the Rega 6 with their MC cartridge and would consider it very good, but it's "low" High-end. I listen to albums a only few times a week, so it's fine for me. I put most of my money into digital as that is what I listen to most.
However, if you listen mostly your CD player, then burn your CD's to digital (any of the Aurender's that burn would be great with your system). Bluesound Vault would be a second choice based on your available money. I went from Bluesound to Aurender. I love still having my CD collection yet being able to manage it just like a good streaming service - playlists, pick and choose, search, sort, etc.
Just one person's opinion of course.
You didn't mention streaming per-se, so I won't either.
@backdoor, like usual you want to look at the two ends of the system. Where you will hear the improvement most is first with better speakers and second with a better record playing device.
I knew I would get that question. I cannot say there is anything in particular but like a lot of us I was just looking for that little bit of extra. For example I thought someone might tell be to get an outboard DAC that is better than the one in the marantz. Or a better streamer than the marantz. Conversely I did not expect to hear anyone say to get better speakers because I feel the speakers are the stars of this system. But to be specific I am always looking for better clarity, bigger soundstage and more separation of instruments. Those are my typical goals.
Streaming through your phone is the bottleneck. Why are you streaming from your phone and NOT the Marantz when it is also a network player?
Heres the description
A high-resolution source for digital music
The Marantz SACD 30n is a motherlode of high-resolution digital sources in one component. It's a disc player with an innovative transport mechanism and compatibility with standard CDs, homemade discs, and SACDs. It's also a state-of-the-art network player that gives you access to popular streaming apps, internet radio, and Apple AirPlay 2. If you like to stream high-res files from a computer, network attached storage (NAS), or a thumb drive, the built-in Marantz Musical Mastering digital-to-analog converter provides pure and accurate musical detail for those files, too.
But to be specific I am always looking for better clarity, bigger soundstage and more separation of instruments.
Boy aren't we all. Your system looks good on paper. What about a pair of subs, that will really change things. I'd also would want to see your set-up just to make sure you have it located well.
artemus_5
I guess I did not think there would be much of a difference whether I streamed through phone or directly on the marantz. I have not looked into going direct but I will figure out how. I guess I also thought I needed an app to stream from and I’m not sure how the marantz accomplishes that on its own. I need to do some digging. Thanks for the suggestion.
russ69 the signature se’s have pretty good bass response. I would even say excellent. Having said that a pair of subs would probably help the sound above and beyond the extra bass. Thanks for that thought.
Can you elaborate please? Are you streaming from the internet to your phone and then bluetooth to your Marantz? Do you have a server on a home ethernet/wifi network?
Ok. What I am doing is streaming internet to phone and then using Airplay 2 to connect to marantz. Another thing I do is play mp3 files from a flash drive connected to marantz. I also play hd radio through marantz. I do not use a computer or have a server on my home network. I could use my laptop in that way but when I did I did not think it sounded as good as streaming through my phone. My marantz recognizes my home network but I only use it in the sense that my phone communicates with the marantz to play my playlists which are not downloaded to my phone. Does that make sense to anyone because I’m not sure it does to me.
russ69 the signature se’s have pretty good bass response.
Actually, I'd recommend a set of woofer towers (or vertical sub array). You would have a near Infinity type RS1B at that point. Very powerful, and miles of depth.
Thanks russ69. I also wanted to mention that I use the HEOS app on my phone to run streaming services like tidal, etc. It seems the sound quality is very much like playing the phone app for tidal. Should there be a difference?
It seems to me streaming over iPhone is marginally better. Not a huge difference just a bit more resolution and soundstage. I attribute that to better files being played over streaming compared to mp3s…?
First of all… it is a completely reasonable question to ask. I learned 40 or 50 years ago that there is no end to how much better a system can sound… ok… to well over a million dollars. If you carefully choose what you purchase, double the cost and you will simply be amazed at how much better it sounds and how much more enjoyable your system is… over and over and over again. So, good question.
Doing a quick review of your system… it would be easy to suggest a turntable. But this is 2022 and I find it increasingly hard to recommend that route… you have to buy disks… they cost money, take up space… if this is a major part of your interest, playing with disks… great… TT and Phonostage.
But at this point in time you can do streaming at the same sound quality for roughly the same price… and it has a future and your music library is nearly infinite… with almost no cost (Qobuz… $14.99 / month). So if you are investing… you will quickly far exceed the sound quality of your current turntable by investing in your digital end.
I recommend digital. Now what is concerning is that you are not hearing a big difference in iPhone and TT… there is something very wrong. You should.
By the way, I have worked at streaming for fifteen years… iPhones, iPads, MAC, PCs (lots of different software), and finally dedicated streamers. Currently I own a flagship Aurender W20SE streamer and it is a bargain at $22K.
I would look to getting a good streamer and DAC. For a good DAC I recommend a Schiit Yggdrasil… this fits into your component cost scheme and will perform like a unit of twice the cost ( I own a Schiit Gungnir and had a Yggdrasil for a while). This gives you a solid DAC. Then you need a streamer. I don’t recommend going cheap on it if you are trying to build a solid g system. I would recommend an Aurender N100… used if required to keep the cost down. Don’t let the folks without experience make you think your going to get audiophile performance out of a MacBook or PC. Maybe as an interim step you can use a Bluesound streamer… but you are going to get a lot more out of a solid high end audio streamer (pretend it is the turntable if this was analog).
I don’t recommend spending any more on vinyl or CDs. Go straight for high end streaming. Then next step, we can talk about your preamp… that would be next… then speakers if you want to keep going. My systems are shown under my user ID.
Thanks for the advice. I have been thinking about a DAC and streamer. I don’t listen to vinyl much so I’m not too concerned about a tt and phono preamp. Also when I stream through HEOS it does sound substantially better than my vinyl does on my rega tt. What sounds close to HEOS is streaming from my phone to Bluetooth. I think HEOS is slightly better because it is using the marantz to do the streaming and not my phone. Anyway, I agree that a streamer and a good DAC would be first things to consider. I will take a look at your system. What preamp and speakers would be a substantial upgrade to your ears?
In your shoes, since vinyl is one of your things, I’d sell the Rega right away and upgrade your vinyl setup. Much better phono stage and cartridge too. Stop using Bluetooth for digital. Once you upgrade the vinyl rig, digital will become less relevant anyway. Add a decent subwoofer(s) to help the Legacy’s below 50 Hz. Take a look at your room too. Lotta glass and bare floors? Not good. As needed, use a rug and maybe some sound panels. Don’t have to do everything at once, but you have to do everything. Because why not?
Op, yes use the heos app that is controlling the Marantz not involving the phone in the stream. Should get you the best possible results given your setup. Maybe get an outboard DAC if you have to scratch that itch.
Op… “What preamp and speakers would be a substantial upgrade to your ears?”.
My ears are highly influenced by the last fifty years pursuing high end audio. At first influenced by the ethereal sound of planar speakers… while trying to maintain slam. Then many years of listening to live acoustic music and realizing I was chasing something that wasn’t real… not that this is bad. But it would make electronic music sound better, but make jazz and classical sound worse. So I turned and went the dynamic speaker route and tube electronics. The change and improvement has been profound. My system used to make me enjoy listening to my system (literally) for forty five minutes or so… now I find it hard to pull myself away after a couple hours… I listen three hours a day. It is so musical, if I want to listen to details… they are there for me… so is glorious highly detailed bass. But my system is not a bunch of details with slam.
So, to answer your question. After you put the digital end in place. Go for an audiophile grade tube preamp… Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, or VAC. Buy used… not over 10 - 15 years old. These companies not only capture the first level of musical reproduction.. but layer after layer… layers you are probably not aware of yet. Like rhythm and pace… something that took me decades to identify and realize how important it is. These preamps give your system the magic present in real music as well as including details and bass.
Speakers, I am on my third set of Sonus Faber. I have moved up the product lines after my first purchase of used. I was struck by their unique sound about twenty years ago. Over time I realized it was their uniquely natural sound that matched the real,world… and an exceptional match with Audio Research equipment… how I got to where I am.
You do not have to spend a fortune to do all this. Used equipment can be the best way into the high end. I would read a lot of reviews from The Absolute Sound, Stereophile, and HiFi+ about the equipment produced by the companies I mentioned… contemporary and older… stuff you can afford as well as at their top of the line products. It will paint a picture of companies that know what top level audiophile products should sound like and have consistently manufactured them and advanced the art.
I’d like to strongly reiterate that your phone is simply used as a controller of where your wi-fi is coming from (hopefully Qobuz, as it’s the best), and what musical selections are being streamed directly to your streamer. You are not using Bluetooth and your phone is not involved in any actual streaming except as I described.
ghdprentice AR preamps have always been on my bucket list along with BAT and CJ. I have not give Sonus Faber much thought. Maggie’s get a lot of ink in this forum and seem to be very popular. When choosing my current preamp, I had tried Rogue RP-7 which was very good but I felt the Sachs with the 6sn7 tubes was a little fuller and richer so I have it. When choosing the Legacy’s I went and listened to them at the factory in Springfield IL which is only 60 minutes from my home. I could not imagine any speakers in their price range sounding better. But I am pretty open minded. So I will try to get a listen to the Fabers and an AR preamp together. I have definitely read and heard more about the AR preamps than I have the Sonus Faber speakers. Thanks for your great reviews and input.
anotherbob HEOS does not support Qobuz so I have to use Tidal or Deezer or Amazon Ultimate or Spotify or a couple others. I am currently leanin towards and using Tidal. I suspect I would have to get Roon to use Qobuz in the same way I’m using HEOS for Tidal. I did download and try Qobuz from my phone but that is back to streaming through my phone. Thanks for your input.
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