Synergistic Research Cable Risers?

HO HO!!!!!!!

Dylan uses cable risers made and designed by strong women.

Butler,
You stated:
"Been trying the risers for about a week, got them on the free orange fuse promo.  In my system they did not work well, seemed to take away dynamics and reduced the organic nature of the sound.  Then moved them under power cables and much better.  Will attempt to try under speaker cables again and  completely out of play before deciding on sending them back.  They definitely impact the sound, certainly worth a try."  

Please try some risers made out of cardboard under your speaker cables.  Cost you nothing.  You can make them all sorts of ways.  I think you will like them....no lack of dynamics or organic tone in my system.  I make a pyramid out of cardboard by say cutting a piece 4 inches by 12 inches and folding it up 4.5 inches in on each side.  At the top I make a slit in the cardboard in the middle to hold the wire and use scotch tape to hold the two "wings" together.....works very well and very stable..You can make them in any height you like.  I will post a pic on my website in a day or so.

The funniest part of the SR cable risers is that they have a user manual. SR tells us the risers are directional and to avoid sag in the cables. Makes sense for SR to tell us to avoid sag as it forces you to purchase more risers.

It's easy enough to test for free. Use some empty CD jewel cases and open them up to form an A-frame to support your cables. Make sure the album cover art of the jewel case faces your listening position.

These look cool but are pure snake oil.

I found that elevating cables can make a difference in sound.  $10 each, $20 each, $54 each...   duh, definitely a product for those willing to hear a difference.  After exhaustive research I found that inverted York-site Memorial Candle holders (after burning and cleaning) make an excellent cable elevator.  They are about one dollar each at the grocery store.

Excuse me, I have to vacuum the carpet now, please pick up your toys.

I’ve been in the music business for over 50 years as a musician and concert producer/sound engineer...I’ve got friends all over the place, and if anyone thinks I’m going to mention their names to in this crowd you’d be mistaken. But hey...it does seem at least some people here pay close attention to what I post! Regarding imagination, it's far more laughable that the "imagined" benefits of cable risers, SR products, and other faith based nonsense is touted here with all the hyperbole and psuedo science the athletic supporters  like Oregonpap can "imagine." There's a PILE of imaginary benefits here for all to (not) see!

I’m such a tweaker... I just ordered a set to go under my Cerious Matrix speaker cables.
BTW, these will replace some porcelain risers.

ozzy

wolf_garcia
I’ve been in the music business for over 50 years as a musician and concert producer/sound engineer...

>>>>I stopped reading right after that. Was that wrong of me?

I haven't "heard" the SR cable risers and my poor ears have never been able to hear any difference when I tried any risers in the past. But these are my ears and yours are different so if you want to give them a try, go for it. Tweaking is a fun part of this hobby. I used to be maniacal about tweaking but now not so much.

Speaker cables platform ....works  for me ! the sound is amazing !
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/foersiktig-childrens-stool-white-green-60248418/

If you really think that getting your speaker wires of the floor helps, just try separating the wires from its mate.  If inductance matters, then the back and forth electrons in paired wires would make a lot more difference.  How about a poll?  Who is a musician and who is not?  Guess who worries about little speaker trestles?  Not anyone who actually listens to music, instead of worrying that a few errant electrons might try to migrate through the insulation to the floor.  Listen to the music, not the wires.  you are only deluding your selves.

Everything should be off the floor. Why not cables? Anything carrying the signal.

Ozzy,
  Can you please report back your impressions after you try these.
Thanks.

Use them on one speaker (left or right) and see what happens to the soundstage.

I didn't bother to read through everything, so sorry if I duplicate what anyone has said.I tried the ceramic type cable risers and they worked well. Giving a small but noticeable improvement. Then Synergistic came out with a mark II version of their original risers and I picked up a set when on sale. They were a slight improvement over my old ceramics, so without hearing the new ones, I would think that they are even better. Don't expect a change that will blow you away, but there is an across the board improvement in your sound quality, clarity, soundstage, etc.As always YMMV.Good listening,Mike

Does anyone know how much these are. I followed the link and I did not see the price--just a form to fill out to send my info to the nearest dealer.  Not thinking of buying, but am curious as to the price.

Ignore the previous post by me.  I had pushed the "buy" button which you seem to have to do these days to get the price.  Just scrolled down and they do list the price as $399 for a set of 4.

Just curious, anyone try springs under cables and power cords? Get above the static field AND eye 👁 soul ate the cables! Two, two mints in one! 👯‍♀️ The whole system for chump change. It’s a no brainer. 😳

What a sham! The only one laughing is SR all the way to the bank!

I had my speaker cables suspended, primarily to keep them away from power lines, which IS a good thing. But realized it was putting a little too much pull at the posts so I swapped them. Cables on floor, power suspended... made no difference what-so-ever in performance... just MY experience. YMMV. We truly can convince ourselves of anything...

I’m not saying getting cables off the floor makes no difference but you can do it yourself for pennies.

A reasonable question for "exotic" cables and embellishments thereto is what kind of engineering and/or physics background does the designer who invented them have. I tried to find out what training many famous cable "engineers" have and there is no mention of it anywhere to be found. If they were trained physicists they would know how to calculate the effect of such things as electric field dipole energy introduced into and later released from the floor your cables are on. Such energy from the minuscule electric fields surrounding loudspeaker cables is so slight it could return only a tiny fraction of a micro-Volt signal to the speakers. Skin effect is another example of junk science. Cable manufacturers advertise the steps they take to address the problem of skin effect causing high frequencies to be attenuated by the loss of conductivity of electricity flowing through the center of a conductor away from the surface where skin effect concentrates the current. Some use litz construction; many thin conductors individually insulated to make them thinner than the skin depth at high frequencies. Others use ribbon cables because the thickness of a ribbon conductor is less than the skin depth. Here is the problem: you can use a graduate E&M physics text to do an integral of current density at a given voltage taking into account the diminution of skin depth and conductivity of the cable, or there are free online calculators which do the integration for you and give you the resistance of a length of any gauge cable for any frequency. My 8 gauge speaker cables have a DC resistance of 0.008 Ohms. At 20 kHz skin effect increases that resistance to 0.016 Ohms. In series with my 4 Ohm planar magnetic speakers, the ratio of resistance, and the ratio of signal current through my speakers, is 4.008 to 4.016. This means at 20 kHz, a frequency almost nobody can hear, the sound pressure is reduced by 0.017 dB, proportionally less at lower frequencies. Cable designers either did not know how to calculate this or they knew the public would have a superficial idea about skin effect and fall for it. Any physicist in today's culture where authority no longer has to be earned the way marketing does not will be dismissed for want of charisma if he/she points such things out.
For me, these selling points of cables is so extreme and so fraudulent none of their rationalizations for cables costing hundreds or thousands of dollars has any credibility. How many people who have already invested in such things can suffer the loss of bicycle tire pumps to their self-esteem to admit they can't hear the difference they paid for? That is why I trust myself to design my own amplifiers, preamplifiers, and cables more than I do most manufacturers. Like all other industries, there is more and more dishonesty.

I haven’t read all three pages of posts yet and will delete if necessary but these are not ordinary cable risers. Note that they have a red ECT looking device on each one. This is probably the reason that using these risers focus the sound. Whether or not they act like the Black Box which was a failure in my system (cut off highs at 8Khz and above) I don’t know. I plan on trying them out in the future. I gave back the Black Box.

P.S. I 100% disagree with drbarney’s conclusion because there is an art to constructing cables that is currently not quantifiable and cannot be test equipment verified.  The sonic differences are obvious as I have been a cable tester for a manufacturer for two decades.  

Another fellow thinks the audio signal has frequencies. The signal is not the audio waveform. Hel-loo!

I read all the posts.  +1 goose.  Without the 32 HFTs in my custom listening room I would need extensive quadradic diffusion paneling on the front and rear walls.  The side and ceiling surfaces have extensive absorption paneling.  The sound in this room is comparable to at least $250,000 in electronics despite using a 30 year old $2500 pair of Legacy Focus speakers.  (The entire room cost $160,000 to build which eliminated the need for bass traps).  However, the Shakti Hallographs do make a more significant benefit in imaging.  The HFTs provide a huge soundstage and focus the sound.  

In my previous listening room, I had underground speaker wire conduit installed prior to pouring the concrete.  The wire sounded much better under the ground than laying on top of carpet (25' speaker runs).  I decided that inexpensive cable risers were at least adequate on the new build with no reason for anyone to walk near the speakers (previous room had 42,000 LPs/CDs/78s-so I would have to walk over the wires occasionally if they weren't underground).

I have 9 of the SR Cable Risers in my system, which has two 10' SR Atmosphere Level 4 speaker cables.  I got them because I have carpet in my dedicated listening room and I was worried about static build up within the cable, particularly in the drier winter months.  Their design is superior to others, including Nordost, because of how they insulate against static transmission.  

Do they make a noticeable improvement in system (i.e. speaker cable) performance?  Its hard for me do say because I have had them in place for a few years.  I have not bothered with an A/B.  I will say two things about them: first, I can't recall a noticeable performance uptick when I installed them, so there may not have been one in my system; and second, I really like them because they make the speaker cables more noticeable so I don't have folks stepping on them and it allows for easy vacuuming without having to lift the cables all the time.

The paradox is these admittedly expensive risers likely work better, from a performance perspective, on cheaper speaker cables.  Well constructed cables with excellent insulation or isolation from RFI and other forms of transmission interferences likely don't benefit as much from cable lifters.

Bottom line is: each to their own, and if you like the look and intuitively presumed benefits then what the hell.  I will say they look good.

Ray

@geoffkait

Grab em up second hand when they go on sale. 🙄

When I first started reading and actually learning things here I did not quite understand your posts at all. But now I find them quite refreshing because of your capacity to always find humor. ;)

@bdp24

You can get a package of 20 Grip Rite brand "Plastic High Chairs" (supports to elevate the rebar in concrete foundations) at Home Depot, product no. IHCP21420R (sku 7 64666 53838 2), $3.60 for the bag of 20. Put a "suspension bridge" across the gap (as Shunyata does on their cable riser) if you wish.

Well I’ll be damn! I work in concrete construction and never thought about using the plastic chairs used to elevate rebar to elevate subwoofer and speaker cable off of the carpet! I can get any height, width size and as many I want for free! Now I have something to go along with the clear Gorilla Tape I’ve been using when running cable on the baseboard molding. Thanks!

@rspyder You said that you have had SR cable risers for several years.  I thought the SR cable risers with the ECT like device is new.  What do your cable risers look like?  Are they the same?

@tyray  Thanks,  I'm going to buy those right now as they look superior to the wood and rubber pucks I'm using.  The SR cable risers benefit (or not) from the ECT devices rather than the stand itself.

 That is correct that the Synergistic research cable risers with the hft's attached just came out in January 2020. They haven't as previously stated been out for years.

So I have had the SR Risers now for about 2 days. I must say that checking the difference in sound perceived between the SR and my original porcelain footers is/was a royal PITA!
By the time I get repositioned to listen, I’m not quite sure if the difference is still there.

Until I get a helper to help switch these out I’ll state my opinion to those who care based on my experience thus far.

I used Jackson Browne -"Running On Empty" Road Out/Stay for the musical trial.

To my ears, yes there is added depth and realness to the sound with the SR risers. It’s not immediately apparent, that is why having a helper switch them out while playing music is important. But I’m going to keep at the testing.
I don’t think it is so much related to the risers themselves but to the red HFT that is attached to it. At least that’s what I am thinking so far.

BTW, I also have 2 FEQX4's and about 20 of the HFT's. 

ozzy

@ozzy  Based on your limited experience with the SR risers, it is apparent that something is wrong with the SR Youtube demonstration which indicates a vast change in sound with only 3 risers per channel, installed and removed.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVIKxulyLNY

I’m sure there is a big difference. But that’s comparing risers to floor. Ozzy is comparing risers to risers. Cable Elevators are already really good.

Also, and I know this is gonna cause even more eye-rolling, but moving cables around does indeed create a situation where they sound worse for a while. How much worse and for how long depends on how much they’re moved and how good you hear. Usually you can count on a few minutes even with careful handling. This complicates matters only to the extent you’re not aware and able to hear. Obviously the listener who became aware of this himself is able to hear it, while one who has to be told still has some skills development waiting out there to be explored. So the sooner you start....

Hopefully ozzy what you are doing is swapping them out one at a time, carefully removing with one hand and replacing with another keeping the cable hardly moving the whole time. This should take no more than 30 seconds to a minute. Using music you’re familiar with late at night when the system is really warmed up it should be easy to hear the difference.

Oh and while you're at it, if you're one of these guys who plays the same little bit over and over again now would be a good time to stop. Just play music you like. Don't even pause. Listen the whole time. You do this a few times, don't be surprised if you notice you start hearing the difference even bent over the wrong way with your back to the speaker.

Btw I think you’re right about the ECT, or HFT, whatever he calls it. My bet is you could stick either one ECT or HFT on the Cable Elevators and, uh, elevate their performance to the same level for less. Since you already have the Cable Elevators I mean. You should try it and if I’m right you could get the same or better performance while saving a few bucks at the same time, the Holy Grail of audio.

The question is, which HFT or ECT SR is using on there cable risers.  Maybe it was made specifically for cable risers and unavailable separately.

Acoustic Discs from Golden Sound would be cheaper. Suspending the cables is even cheaper. The higher you fly the cheaper you go.

All materials have a sound.......I would not think that a ceramic riser would be best. You do not want to induce any microvibs into the cable. Also the ceramic risers do not raise the cable very much. I like to use cardboard. I have found cardboard to be very dead and clear sounding. You can make cardboard risers for essentially nothing and make them any height you want. For instance, you can cut a piece of cardboard 13 inches by 4 inches. You bend the cardboard at 5 inches from each end. You cut a slot in the middle of the end of each of these 5 x 4 inch parts and tape them together using electrical tape, scotch tape or glue.....even string, I would think PVC tape is less prone to static than scotch tape. The slot holds the cable. The deeper you cut the slot the more area it holds onto the cable. It looks something like a pyramid when done. Here is a link to some pics where you can see a very crude one I made years ago and still use today (no WAF here....he he):

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Cheap_stuff__Cool_stuff__Tweaks.html

If you have ceramic risers you might want to make some out of cardboard and compare. You can make them higher and you can make more of them so they support the wire even more. And they cost basically nothing. Fun stuff.

The Mapleshade three stick jobbies raise the cable 8 inches off the ground.  Check these out:

https://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Triad-Cable-Lifts_p_1294.html

You can make your own out of dowels, chopsticks or whatever.  Be creative.....but get those cables off the floor.

Baloney...vibration from music (or sub sonic tectonic vibes generated by an overly fertile imagination) isn't the horrible thing people claim it is, and getting your cables off the floor is utterly unnecessary and, by the way, vibration still gets to the cable (unless you isolate it in drainpipes filled with cotton balls or tiny bits of fuzzy audiophile paranoia) causing zero audible distress.  What about the cable INSIDE your speakers? Wait...don't think about that last one as you won't be able to sleep.

Baloney!Will it dissipate vibrations and protect from RFI?Thick or thin sliced?I actually think cable risers look nice and make cleaning under them easier.But I can't hear much if any difference.

wolf_garcia5,335 posts03-05-2020 2:40pmBaloney...What about the cable INSIDE your speakers? .

Duh! the cables inside your speakers are NOT on the floor.

The problems with most audio system user is the lack of priorities and lack in method...


To assess audible differences by anyone for anyone there must exist a scale of priorities in the different embeddings controls and methods...


There is no minimal consensus about this scale...

My own experiment about 4 embeddings is only a beginnings and makes me able to discover more and more....It seems people are more interested by their taste in audio gear and their own opinion generate by their limited audio system...


How to create a top audio system for peanuts is my goal.... I succeed to a great degree...Not with "opinions" or my "beloved brand name gear ", but my systematic experiments, simple, homemade, low cost...

Discussion about cables are ridiculously sterile, because the 2 armies does not know to speak one another in a common language about the priority scale concerning increase S.Q. in an audio system ....

SR tells us the risers are directional and to avoid sag in the cables. Makes sense for SR to tell us to avoid sag as it forces you to purchase more risers.

This is very true.

Ack chew ally, the cables inside speakers are an issue, too. That’s one reason to isolate your speakers. I don’t even have to bring up wires in electronics, do I? They are also subject to vibration, no?

Isolate speakers from their internal cables? Hmmm...and Thyname...I can only assume you were joking as indeed, the cables inside your speakers (and the amps inside my subs or any "active" speaker) are not on the floor (a brilliant observation) and are exposed to nightmarish levels of Evil Vibes but somehow miraculously manage to work...I suggest putting SR cable risers inside speakers and electronics and stick ’em to your head to insulate headphone cables as, clearly, that's the only way to insure the issue is remedied and SR gets more snake oil residue.

Wolfie, you so funny! You have to know how isolating speakers works. I should have explained that part. 🤗 I’m as serious as a colonoscopy w/o anesthesia. 

 wolf_garcia5,339 posts03-06-2020 1:47pm Hmmm...and Thyname...I can only assume you were joking as indeed, the cables inside your speakers (and the amps inside my subs or any "active" speaker) are not on the floor (a brilliant observation) and are exposed to nightmarish levels of Evil Vibes but somehow miraculously manage to work...I suggest putting SR cable risers inside speakers and electronics and stick ’em to your head to insulate headphone cables as, clearly, that's the only way to insure the issue is remedied and SR gets more snake oil residue.

An interesting mythical creature you are ....

Read the title of this thread. It says ".... cable risers". What do internal speaker wires have to do with cable risers?

I guess you were fighting the anti-snake-oil (holly) war in multiple fronts and forgot which thread you were posting this to (LOL!!)

So after many trials, I have decided that with my speaker cables (Cerious Tech Matrix) the SR risers just did not provide enough bang for the money and I sent them back for a refund. 
I mention my speaker cables because they are made with an internal damping fluid that probably negates the improvements that other cables may exhibit with using the SR risers. 
But, I may put a couple of the SR HFT's on my porcelain elevators.

ozzy

Prof,

I think you are taking the wrong approach to this topic. You appear to be approaching it from a standpoint of logic and physics. So what that every claimed reason for working including static electricity, dielectric/capacitive effects or vibration could be easily tested to be real or not .... you know that 1) vendors never will because they won't be able to show a difference, 2) the people that advocate for them will not test for the effects as they are unable and 3) the people that do test for the effects and show they are not there will be insulted with any number of ad-homs.

Just consider what it is ... Ted is the comedian extraordinaire of the industry, the "press" in the room are his faithful audience, and you and me, wolfgarcia, etc. just don't seem to get the joke.

Looks like we have a winner of the Who’s Going to be the New Audiogon Know-It-All contest. 

I looked at your posts geoffkait and your OCD requirement to post on almost every thread no matter how inane your comment. > 20,000 posts? Really?  I hope you are getting vitamin D supplements.


I would say you captured the know-it-all crown about 15,000 posts ago and it will never be disputed.

Cheers