I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Reading the Magneplanar 1.7 information, the fuse is a 4 amp Fast Blow so do not try these Fast Blow fuses in an amp, preamp, or source.
These fuses are to protect the tweeter and so the RED fuse in this location did not make a difference for limniscale. Hopefully he can return them.
The Sennheiser 800 headphones last night sounded glorious. With the Synergistic Research Black and RED fuses in the headphone system, the soundstage certainly is not just an inside my head sensation. This system also takes advantage of the Synergistic Research A/C wall plugs and the Electronic Circuit Transducers (ECT). The ECT's allowed me to reduce "glare" and really fine tune the qualities I wanted in my system. There is an excellent article (2014) in "Enjoy the Music" that compares several Audio grade A/C wall plugs.
I also like the fact that you can take the fuses and ECT's out of your system without difficulty.
@limniscate, Perhaps the SR fuses aren't going to improve the quality of music in your Magneplanar 1.7i's. I would think the fuses are burned in by now. As David mentioned, try them in your amp, pre amp, or source. Out of curiosity, what other components are you using?
limniscate: Thank you for the report. I believe the fuse location you are evaluating is in the Magniplanner speakers. I hope you will be able to try the Synergistic Research fuses in your amp, pre amp, or source.
So in Magniplanner speakers we have two positive results using Synergistic Research RED or BLACK fuses and on listener with no improvement.
Oregonpapa:
That is some special piano music you have been listening to!
^^^ Same here Charles. So far, this has been a very informative discussion on the fuses. No point in mucking it up at this point.Besides, there's plenty of folks who are trying the fuses, or about to, who would like to post their experiences as well.
Another Black fuse showed up in the mail today. It went into the CD player, and the Black one that was in the CD player (broken in) went into the line stage.
I just finished listening to Horowitz's "Last Recording." Way more dynamic with more punch and greater attack. That's the best solo piano has sounded in the system to date.
The CD player takes two fuses, so that means that when Robert comes over, he will be hearing one broken in, and one not broken in, fuse in the CD player. I'll let him hear it for himself before I tell him that here's been another Black fuse addition. "Mr. Cynic," remember? :-)
I agree, he should simply begin a thread on the futility of premium aftermarket fuses. He will attract like minded opinions who also believe our "many"shared experiences expressed here are merely make believe foolishness. This thread can remain for those who've tried the fuses or are interested. This way both sides are served. Count me out for any heated back and forth battles, waste of everyone's time in my opinion.
It's ok, Roguemodel, you are new to the site. This is not a fuse-bashing thread--it's for folks who are sharing the positive results of after-market fuses so that others may try them with confidence. This is how the forum is used to help one another. You can start a separate topic on your feelings and perceptions, and others will show up to agree with you so that you can always be right.
lowrider 57: I think you are going to be very happy with your CD player and amp. With upgraded fuses in these two locations I believe you will experience a much improved sense of the music flowing.
I look forward to your thoughts after the break in period.
And I meant to thank you, Charles. You're right that if there were problems with these fuses we would have heard about it. Audiophiles are a vocal lot.
Hi Charles1dad, thankyou for a good response post, you have told me more of what I wanted to know than most of the post on this thread, down to the changes these sr-black's go through, cheers Charles1dad.
Have you read this thread from the beginning? Are you saying that everyone who "thinks" he/she's had a positive experience with these fuse upgrades are bat $hit crazy?
Read the entire thread. Once you're done with it, hopefully you would have had an enlightened moment and came to the realization that we treat each other with respect around here.
Oh, and for all the large gauge, silver rhodium gold platinum unobtanium spiral helix magnetic convex matrix wiring there is......the current still flows through a piece of fuse wire no bigger then a few strands of hair. Think about that...
Yes, I installed the RED and immediately heard a far larger soundstage, nuanced detail, a more organic presentation, and my amp seemed happier.
What a bunch of fluff. Buy into the charlatan rhetoric if you want. It's a bunch of crap told to people in order to spend $89. The Emperor has NO cloths! People believe anything.....
Knghifi, Good observation. If these premium fuses were failing to protect components and causing damage, believe me we'd know about it. Owners would be very vocal and upset and those skeptical about the fuses to begin would say I told you so. I believe their track record of reliability is very good. Charles,
I ordered 5 SR BLACKs from theCableCo and should arrive next week. Going to replace all 5 at once so hope it goes well :-)
lowrider51, aftermarket fuses have been around for a long time. In this 24/7 news cycle, I've only read positive results and not one negative experience. Ultimately it's your component and your decision. GL!
Keith, In terms of burn in hours I'm not sure if there's a precise answer. I can tell you that based on my listening, there's a noticeable improvement around 60 hours. They surely continued to improve to the 100-120 hours range. I don't know how much it really matters, as they sound good early on and steadily improve. From the beginning they are clear, transparent and dynamic. With additional time they became increasing relaxed and organic while remaining very open and transparent. That's my experience with them. Different people will likely report various numbers of hours. One undeniable trait is superior lower level detail and nuance retrieval. Charles,
P59teitel, thankyou for your response post, the consensuous vote here seems that you will hear a good improvement at 75 hrs, not sure, no one has had a finalized assumption of how long these sr-black's take, 150 - 200, or maybe 300 hrs?, I'm thinking 150 hrs?
Thanks for your comment, Charles. Ok, so there doesn't seem to be a risk using aftermarket fuses; I'm here to learn.
I've only heard and read positive results when using audiophile fuses, that's why I'm going to start with a SR RED fuse in my ARC CD player. Since these are slow-blow fuses, I guess there's little to no chance of any damage to a component under stress, and the amplifier is the one component to experience high-current surges, such as powering up.
With that said, on a SS amp, is there an benefit in sonics by swapping the AC line fuse with an audiophile fuse? Or do all rail fuses need to be changed to hear the benefit?
Lowrider57, You raise very reasonable points. I say if you have any reservations about premium fuses in your components still under warranty, don't use them if they'll cause you anxiety. I've used these premium fuses in all of my components over a period of 3 years without any problems, just improved sound quality. We all know our individual thresholds and comfort zone. I'm perfectly comfortable with these fuses in my components. Charles,
There have been failures of electronics due to aftermarket fuses? When, where, who, how? Gee, you’d think it would be all over the boards. Are audiophile houses burning down even as we speak? Rome burned while Nero fiddled with his fuses. All I see on audio boards are heaps of praise on aftermarket fuses. Could there be a deep hidden dirty little secret here? Perchance an exploding transformer or two. ;-)
Thanks Al, Yeah, I personally wouldn't modify a component under warranty.
I for one have never seen any such detailed specifications for
aftermarket audiophile-oriented fuses. So I guess it comes down to
relying on a combination of reported experiences and faith.
That's why I appreciate threads like this one. I think it's worth trying in my CDP, long out of warranty, and with such agreement on improved sonics. But, it makes me wonder if I really want to replace all the rail fuses in my amp without knowing the tolerance of an expensive fuse.
I’ve never used after-market audiophile fuses before; how do you know if they are made with the same tolerances as a stock or a Buss fuse for a given amp value?
The major manufacturers of non-audiophile fuses, such as Littlefuse and Eaton/Cooper Bussmann, provide detailed datasheets at their websites. Which among many other things specify a "nominal melting" parameter, which defines the combination of current and time that would "typically" cause the fuse to blow. That parameter is usually specified in terms of (amperes squared) x (seconds). The reason current is "squared" is that power, and hence heat, are proportional to current squared.
I for one have never seen any such detailed specifications for aftermarket audiophile-oriented fuses. So I guess it comes down to relying on a combination of reported experiences and faith.
Re your question about warranties, per the terms of most component warranties that I’ve seen a company would certainly be within its rights to deny coverage for damage that might not have occurred if the original fuse had been in place. And some warranties, as you may have seen, simply state something like "all coverage is void if the unit in tampered with or modified in any way."
So I guess it comes down to balancing risks that aren’t precisely quantifiable vs. reward, as is the case with many things in life.
I'd like try the SR RED fuse, but have a question. I've never used after-market audiophile fuses before; how do you know if they are made with the same tolerances as a stock or a Buss fuse for a given amp value? For example, previous posts of the SR fuses blowing in some amps; a 5 amp slo-blo would not work, but the Buss fuse was fine.
But an amp's a high-current draw component. Have you proponents of these fuses found them to be reliable in CD players and preamps? I'd like to start with a SR RED in my ARC CDP. I'm hestitant to use one in my preamp since it is under warranty, wouldn't using these fuses leading to a circuit failure void the warranty?
^^^ "At first it seems like a drop in perceived volume ..."
I've noticed that as well, folkfreak.
You've put the experience into words very well.
It seems that right off the bat, with the first fuse change, the presentation is more relaxed, more musical and as you said, "a more sense of the whole." .
Just wanted to offer another endorsement of the blacks. I’ve had bad experiences with after market fuses in the past but I just installed a set of Blacks in my DCS Paganini stack (4 boxes) and in my ARC Ref 2SE Phono and 40th Anniversary Pre. Still early days on hours but my experience is a very consistent step up in line with all of the other power noise floor optimization moves I’ve been making (changing the MPCs on my SR power cords, most recently upgrading to a Transporter Ultra SE).
With every incremental step in cleaning I have noticed a similar change. At first it seems like a drop in perceived volume but as you listen in you realize the instruments are more whole and more distinct from one another as opposed to being "spotlit" previously. As an analogy imagine seeing a play in which the speaker is brightly lit by a spotlight, then when a new speaker comes in the spotlight shifts. You focus on the spotlit piece but have less of a sense of the whole. As you get the noise floor under control this spotlighting effect declines and you can hear the whole recording, and then "reach in" to pick out any instrument or voice you want. I find that after each change I find it beneficial to open up the volume control a bit more to levels that previously sounded loud and harsh. In fact it could be what we often perceive as loudness in audio reproduction is actually the cumulative noise in the system, as the noise is reduced we can open up the volume control and appreciate more of the dynamic range in the recording.
Thanks Charles. I will certainly report back on my listening impressions. I'm also now down to needing just one last 1a slow-blow RED (thanks Tom) to finish out my DAC's complement. Please let me know if anyone has one they want to jettison.
@limniscate, I owned the 1.6 several years ago and now have the 3.7. I thought there was more than one fuse per speaker, but I was wrong. Looks like one fuse per speaker, you are correct. When I upgraded the fuses in my 1.6 and 3.7 I heard an improvement using the older Quantum SR 20 fuses. Maybe you just need some additional fuse break in time?
Although I have not kept religious track of the hours on the SR Blacks in my CDP and pre, I figure I’m at or past the touted 75 hour break-in milepost. At this time I am extremely pleased to say that they are a significant improvement over both stock and Furutech fuses I’ve previously used.
The effects I notice are similar to the ones heard when I put the speakers and amps on Star Sound platforms: a quieter background, more precise placement and separation of players in the soundstage, and more heft and body to the music. As a bassophile, the lower end improvements are especially satisfying. Additionally, previously "hot" digital recordings are now more listenable, as there is less of a hard edge.
Lest anyone think these things have tilted the sound way over to the warm and soft side, these attributes come with no loss of detail whatsoever: the quieter background and more precise soundstage are bringing out even more detail from the recording. If using a stereo to listen to music is like looking out the window, it’s as though the view is even more clear.
Geoffkait, I take your challenge! , I know exactly what each and every piece of gear I have takes to burn in, even my furutech gtx-rhodium outlet's , and yes, I do study and do critical listening with every piece, I use straight music and patience to burn in everything, sure it takes longer, and it's really unpleasant, however, I assure you I can validate the time of burn in, cheers
Solman989, yes I have bypassed fuses for years with great results in my digital front end gear. See my post above which talks about using high quality circuit breakers for power switches in amps negating the need for any fuse.
^^^ More and more people are coming out of the word work with praise for these SR fuses. As far as I can tell, there are only a couple posting here who either had a negative experience or a neutral one. Considering that SR has posted this thread on its Facebook page, its gone international right from here. I'd be curious to know how many have been returned to the dealers after the 30 day trial. Not to upgrade from the most recently purchased Red fuses in trade for the Black fuses like I did on my last two, but how many returned them because they didn't like the results. Not many, I bet.
"Or maybe these fuses have some other method of operation (similar to Bybee filters) that enable them to impart their "magic". In the end, I guess one must remain open minded. I use HFT fuses but I cannot really say with authority whether they made any difference. I look forward to trying these out sometime in the near future."
Have you tried reversing the direction of an HFT fuse? You should be able to hear that.
These fuses, and aftermarket fuses in general, intrigue me. What is it about them that improves the sound? I am guessing the fact that there there is so much room for improvement means that stock fuses and fuseholders are an impediment in some way to the incoming AC.
In that case, has anyone ever tried to bypass the fuse and wire their gear directly to the AC? I would imagine that configuration (while maybe not being the safest) would be the "holy grail" in the sense that no passive component + connectors can really improve upon a straight unbroken wire.
Or maybe these fuses have some other method of operation (similar to Bybee filters) that enable them to impart their "magic". In the end, I guess one must remain open minded. I use HFT fuses but I cannot really say with authority whether they made any difference. I look forward to trying these out sometime in the near future.
I tried the Red fuse in my Magnepan 1.7i's and even burned them in for 200 hours. I couldn't really tell a difference. Do the fuses make a difference in preamps/amps/sources?
I’ve been thinking, my Hegel H30 uses a 15 amp slo-blo so theoretically if on a 15 amp outlet, the breaker will trip and don’t need a fuse ... just hard wired it. But since it’s on a 20 amp line, MAYBE not a good idea. I’m just speculating and not bypassing the fuse.
I think you’re right to not count on the 20 amp breaker providing protection comparable to a 15 amp fuse, Kng, and I would say the same thing even if the breaker and outlet you are using were rated at 15 amps. A circuit breaker will generally take MUCH longer to trip than a slow blow fuse, at least in situations in which the overload is not extremely great.
I can tell from listening session to listening session what’s going on, but do I really hear things accurately? Has it improved overnight ... or not? Or, has the change actually moved things backwards a bit?
Not only that but can one be sure a change heard over the time is a change in the fuse? There is a tendancy to attribute a change over time to the last thing changed but certainly there is no rule that says that is necessarily the case. I hear differences day to day with no changes at all to my gear. Is it me? The gear? The weather? The power? All the above? Who knows.
Whatever its fun trying to figure these things out I guess.
OP my ARC sp16 pre-amp uses a 3 amp slo-blo fuse, apparently same as your ARC. I appreciate the offer but hold onto your red fuse. Fuses can blow (that’s what fuses do) and its always good to have a spare fuse. Offer much appreciated though.
I have a few significant enhancement projects already going on currently with my stuff. I’m refoaming some old Boston A40 series II speakers I have sitting around and working on getting digital USB feed from my Iphone 6s and tablet to my mhdt Constantine DAC. If I had more time to dabble I would probably take you up. Thanks again for the nice offer and gesture.
You make an excellent point regarding break in time. I can tell from listening session to listening session what's going on, but do I really hear things accurately? Has it improved overnight ... or not? Or, has the change actually moved things backwards a bit?
I've mentioned my audio buddy Robert a few times in this thread. While I listen to the system early every morning or each evening, Robert only comes over maybe once or twice a week. I trust Robert's ears ... and believe me, he can hear. If something is off-putting about the sound, he pulls no punches pointing it out. I don't call him Mister Cynic for no reason. I can say unequivocally that recorded music and audio is the main thrust in Robert's life. He knows more about recorded music than anyone I know. He's a good person to have as a friend if you're a dedicated audiophile and music lover like most of us who post here.
When I got the first SR Red fuse it had been burned in for a week before Robert heard the result. He was as pleased with the results as I was. When I put the SR Black fuses in the CD player, Robert heard that change after burning in for only 24 hours. His reaction was to tell me to return the Blacks and get the Reds back into the system.
Okay, now fast forward to the next time Robert came over ... about seven days later. He was blown away by the improvements afforded by the Black fuses, now a lot further down the break in path. You can read his comments further up the thread.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is ... if we listen ourselves, we are hearing very small increments of improvement. But when someone knowledgeable goes from one week to another week without hearing the incremental break in improvements, what they hear is one HUGE improvement. That's always been a good gauge for me.
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