I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Abnerjack, If you've been following this thread you must be aware that this forum has been open to all viewpoints. Granted the vast majority of posts here are very positive but that's due to the users satisfying results. There's has been no arm twisting for conformity. Almarg, Mapman and others have freely expressed their opinions here without being attacked.
The proposition for these fuses is really simple if someone is interested. Buy them with the knowledge they can be returned if you are underwhelmed by their contributions.
Well, after 45 minutes of listening I am getting listening fatigue, very up front sounding more bassnthan stock. I do not like the listening fatigue. Hopefully they start to get less bright and more relaxed. I guess they take time to burn in
mapman said:
"I suspect there are many others out there either sitting on the fence or
waiting to be convinced who would appreciate a balanced discussion."
I agree with you mapman. I have all my components in place and am now looking at the various add-ons like cables, interconnects, etc., and would look forward to the more balanced discussion as well. Maybe we could start an independent third party thread for those who are open to either possibility.
Hello Mapman, I think you miss my point. It isn't a case of rah rah (not sure why you'd characterize it this way). I definitely have no issue with open discussion and have said so several times. After awhile redundancy sets in. That's why the alternative thread concerning the fuses is an effective outlet for those such as you. You have plenty of company there and that's good as far as I am concerned.
Many people here have reported sucessful and very gratifying outcomes and certainly that includes my experience with the SR Black fuses. We all understand and appreciate your impression and commentary but why the need to repeatedly state it on this particular thread? We clearly get your point. So IMO the availability of the two opposing fuse threads each address the different perspectives.
I don't post repeatedly on the other thread extolling the benefits of the Black fuses, what would be the point in doing so? Minds are made up over there regarding their virtues and that's fine with me. I see no need for endless squabbling and the inevitable name calling. Two separate but interesting threads is the better route. Charles,
Hi Nonoise, That's why I am glad there are two threads discussing premium fuses. One for the skeptical and this thread for happy users of these fuses. This is good IMO , one side will never convince the other, waste of precious time. Charles,
Not to be repetitive but some reasons why the fuse is actually critical include but are not limited to it’s exposed to RFI, it’s exposed to vibration, it’s exposed to magnetic fields, it’s a conductor, thus purer and/or better metal conductors and end caps are audible. For starters I would specify 5 nines silver or 7 nines copper for the fuse wire, end caps and the fuse holder. It's not rocket science, folks.
Bingo. From my own personal experience, it took a couple of days for the new fuses to break in while playing 24/7, just like any new cable or component.
Now before anyone counters with how can something so small need to be broken in, think about all the discussion about capacitors, connectors, cables and the like needing some time to break in. This is generally agreed upon.
The act of removing and inserting terminations which removes motes of oxidation has been made to discount just what actually is responsible, as has extremely small matters as turn on and warm up time needing to be exactly the same, time of day, weather conditions, seating position, frame of mind, etc and yet some other thing as small as a fuse is to be discounted?
"actually think it makes a lot of sense that the fuse is important as it is. The best way would be no fuse at all but can’t do that. So considering all power comes through that fuse, before i spend 1000 dollars on a power cord, I should probably take a look at the power fuse.."
Not to be repetitive but some reasons why the fuse is actually critical include but are not limited to it’s exposed to RFI, it’s exposed to vibration, it’s exposed to magnetic fields, it’s a conductor, thus purer and/or better metal conductors and end caps are audible. For starters I would specify 5 nines silver or 7 nines copper for the fuse wire, end caps and the fuse holder. It's not rocket science, folks.
Nice! SR has some really innovative new products. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Newport show where I hope to meet several Agon members in person. Anyone besides Bob and David going? If so, we could set a specific time to meet in the SR room sometime on Saturday afternoon. It would be interesting to observe SR's entire presentation.
I actually think it makes a lot of sense that the fuse is important as it is. The best way would be no fuse at all but can't do that. So considering all power comes through that fuse, before i spend 1000 dollars on a power cord, I should probably take a look at the power fuse..
I'm currently using SR Tesla Accelerator interconnects and speaker cables. For power cables I'm using SR Copper Element for my tube integrated amp and PS Audio cables for my DAC, music server and universal player. I plan to purchase the Black cables since the Black fuses are now broken-in.
This thread has found a life of its own at almost 70,000 views. Who knew?
Interesting idea of reducing the toe-in of the speakers. I think I may try your suggestion this weekend. Its kind of a hassle for me as I have Mapleshade platforms spiked through the carpet and then the speakers spiked to the platforms. It wouldn't normally be a problem, but the speakers weigh 145 pounds apiece.
You didn't mention what cables you're currently using, but some members are getting really good results from SR's new Black power cords. There's a thread on the subject in the cable forum.
I've been reading this thread since it began and would like thank oregonpapa for starting a very informative and useful topic. It's wonderful that so many enthusiasts are involved and encouraging other members to be open minded concerning fuses. Who would have thought such a "none essential" component could affect sound quality. Most of us have tried different tweaks over the years with little or no changes. Some would call these tweaks "snake oil" but isn't it part our hobby to experiment and get the most out of our systems? I understand some are reluctant to spend over $100 for a fuse but would spend thousands on cables. But as oregonpapa and others have stated numerous times, SR's 30 day return policy is a no brainer!
But I'm really amazed what these black fuses have done to my system. The soundstage opened up, I could hear more detail and greater dynamics. Music can be played at a lower volume and it still sounds great. I'm actually writing this while listening to my system and pause occasionally to enjoy the music like I have a new system.
I was wondering if anyone tweaked their speaker placement due to these fuses. I reduced the toe-in since the speakers throw a wider soundstage. I spoke to Ted Denney many years ago while considering to upgrade to his Tesla series cables. He stated the cables will allow my then Focal speakers to throw a wider soundstage thus reducing the toe-in and he was correct. I guess the fuses are doing the same.
"geoffkait - Ha. Sorry for not being more rigorous, but I spend that currency at work. And to be fair, there’s precious little science (or even real EE knowledge, Al excepted) being communicated on these forums. Might as well be the anti-vaccine crowd with the way people regularly ---- on blind listening tests while extolling the virtues of their subjective experience."
I know there's an Appeal to Authority in there somewhere.
geoff kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right
I second and third what Charles said about AC power. I do hope everyone reading this thread will try a high quality A/C wall outlet.
My personal favorites are the Furutech GTX and the Synergistic Research Tesla SE outlets. The SR outlets are fun to try as they have a 30 return policy.
I do think upgrading the main power fuses for each piece of equipment and upgrading the wall outlets should be done prior to auditioning various power cords and interconnects. This allows one to hear the maximum benefit of a cable change.
Last night it was live music for 100 people at the season ending concert for El Paso Pro Musica. Beethoven piano sonatas x two plus Bach. No written music on the stand. Just straight ahead playing. The artistic director of the series is Zuil Bailey. His Cd 's showcase some of the best in cello playing. The SR Black fuses certainly do allow me to hear the fine details of Mr. Bailey's expressive playing.
Hi Cal, As you probably know I am a very happy owner of the Coincident Line Stage and Total Eclipse II speakers. Both are terrific. However if I were you I'd address your AC power deficiency issues first. I've found that high quality AC power is crucial to maximizing the potential of an audio system. No matter how exceptional the components or speakers, they'll be compromised without good quality electrical power. Charles,
"OP - One of my fuses was used and the other was new. I never checked on hours though. The PWD has two fuses and replacing either with a Red (new or used) always hurt the cause. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact details, but I did run them in for at least three days (the DAC is always on). My comparisons to the stock fuses happened after that."
A little slow on checking the forum these days... but:
Charles - PWD Direct-to-amp. I would like to add a Coincident LS, but need the remote version, can only afford to buy used, and have trouble committing to that cost when the DAC already handles all my inputs. I'm not currently buying anything, but vacillate pretty strongly between wanting to spend on the LS, a speaker upgrade to the Total Eclipses, or dealing with my power (probably by buying a regenerator like the PS audio P5 or P10, as my power browns out semi-regularly). Tough to figure out which is the best investment.
OP - One of my fuses was used and the other was new. I never checked on hours though. The PWD has two fuses and replacing either with a Red (new or used) always hurt the cause. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact details, but I did run them in for at least three days (the DAC is always on). My comparisons to the stock fuses happened after that.
I would put a Black fuse in the amp next and then the preamp.
tboooe:
I believe you are going to like the sound of the Synergistic Research Black fuse. There will be an immediate change but then it will take up to 100 hours of playing time to fully settle in. During this time there may be a sense of the music being constricted but then it will open up and have a wonderful sense of effortless flow.
If you like the change in sound I suggest putting a Black fuse in CD player/DAC next. finally replace the other internal fuses.
The SR Black fuses come with a 30 day return policy. So take your time listening and enjoy.
OK I am going to bite. My Accustic Arts Power 1 integrated amp currently has a HiFi Tuning Gold fuse in it for the main fuse. I will buy the SR Black. If this does anything I will then move to the various internal ones which are 4 x F4L250V. I will report back. I've also been meaning to put some fuses in my Luxman cdp/dac as well.
Congratulation on getting the lid off the Marantz Sa11-2. That unit has one main power fuse and also 6 rail fuses. The rail fuses are 1.6 amp and 1 amp rated. The main fuse is the 3.15 amp.
Leave the unit on 24/7 for best results. Give the fuse a week to settle in.
It could be the difference in the amp is due to 120 vs. 240 volt options. Most stereo equipment these days is built for use world-wide so it needs to accommodate both voltages. 120 volts with a 3.2 amp fuse will deliver about the same power as 240 volts at 1.6 amps. The board probably reflects the amperage setting for the country where it was designed or manufactured.
I recently ordered a synergistic research black fuse for my sa11s2. Finally got the lid off. On the circuit board they have it labeled as a 1.6 amp fuse. However, their was a 3.15 amp fuse in the unit directly from the factory. So I will put in a 3.15 amp fuse.
Charles I am using Graphene Extreme digital cables, analog interconnects, and speaker cables, but my power cables are all the previous generation Cerious Nano signatures. They were the very first power cables I truly thought made a difference and now have them on my DAC, preamp, and power conditioner.
So got my speaker cables back yesterday and hooked them back up and also dropped in a second Cerious Graphene Extreme digital cable between my Sonos and W4S Remedy. The system is really singing now sounding better than I have ever heard it. The cumulative effect of a number of tweaks, new fuses included, has brought me to a very good place indeed.
Well Chris it's good to know that the Red fuses worked out in your Frankenstein. By the way are you using a preamplifier or direct source to amplifier? Charles,
Just an update on trying out the SR-Reds in my PS Audio PWDACII. They definitely hurt the sound in my system. The sound got more "brittle" and less musical than with the stock fuses. That result can be contrasted with their positive effect in my Coincident Frankenstein Monos. Anyway, if anyone needs some 1a slow blow reds, I've got two I'd be happy to move on to another intrepid explorer. Perhaps in your system you'll see different results, as the thread would suggest.
When it comes to the vibraphone, Jackson, Feldman and Bobby Hutcherson are my all time favorites, but there are many good ones to choose among. Lem Winchester is featured on a really good Oliver Nelson recording "Nocturne ". Quite good! Charles,
You are both entirely welcome. I get a kick out of recommending great performance and recordings to friends.
I heard Cal Tjader live at a jazz club called Zardies in Hollywood when I was a senior in high school. That was 60 years ago (1956). I've been hooked on Tjader ever since. There are a lot of fine vibes players from that era, and many more from today ... but in my estimation, none can top the great Cal Tjader.
If you guys like Milt Jackson, you may like Lem Winchester even more:
Yes, thanks for the listings, Papa. I heard them all on Youtube and have ordered two by Cal Tjader and a few by "Modern Jazz Quartet", not on you list, but I'm sure you will approve. I like those vibes. I think that Rick Braun CD would sound just right through your tubed ARC gear--it does through mine. There's a bit of reverb to it for depth and interest that mellows out through a big system. For more of a chamber quartet sound, go to Youtube, keywords "Fourplay live in Tokyo 2013" Watch and hear them. If they are not cool, they sure are hip.
I have ~25 hours on my 7 SR Blacks and it sounds very good. The sound opened up ~5 hours and never analytical. Most noticeable difference between SR Red is more organic, musical and less hifi-ish. Probably due to UEF patch on the fuse?
I agree on the West Coast jazz.; its very melodic. All of the albums I recommended above are prime examples of it.
I use Spotify to play recommended recordings before I consider buying anything that has been recorded over the past 20 years or so ... including new recordings. For example, those recommended in Stereophile and TAS, or here on this site in the "music" forum. So many of them sound as though the recording occurred in a cave. I think some vocalists are recorded this way to cover a lack of talent. Sarah Vaughn, Billy Holliday, and Dinah Washington weren't recorded like this, right?
What some of these guys are listening to, and recommending, have been totally butchered by the recording engineer and/or the mastering engineer. You hear this stuff at audio shows all the time. To hear it done right, check out almost anything mastered by Kevin Gray. He's done almost all of the reissues for Impex records. The Julie London and the June Christy albums are prime examples of Kevin's excellent mastering.
If anyone reading this attends the audio shows, a visit to Ralph Karsten's room (Atmosphere), or Randy Cooley's room (Optimal Enchantment) should be on the short list. These two guys know great music and great recordings ... and that's what they play at the shows.
Just as a side note ...one of the very best sounding recordings in my entire collection was recorded by Ralph. Its a small chorale group singing upbeat folk songs. Its uncannily real. I love playing it for the digital download guys just to demonstrate how good vinyl can sound.
Jafreeman ...
I hope you'll take advantage of the recommended recordings I listed. They are really something else.
As Frank said in an earlier post, it's all just a matter of taste. The term "cool jazz" is often synonymous with "West Coast jazz". MIles Davis "Birth Of The Cool" is credited as the orgin of this genre. Smooth jazz is an entirely different genre from Cool jazz. West Coast/Cool is beautiful music IMO. Smooth jazz doesn't stimulate me nearly as much. To each there own. Charles,
The next time you listen to "cool" jazz, listen for all of the artificial artifacts the recording engineer added to the sound. Its totally unnatural. A perfect example is the music of Kenny G. Personally, I can't stand to listen to the guy because his recordings are so off-putting. However, years ago, I heard him play as a featured guest on the Arsenio Hall Show without all of the electronic enhancements. Well, to my utter surprise, the guy can really play that sax. He was great. If his recordings sounded that good, I'd buy them ... especially if they were of the old school ballads.
If you have a source like Spotify, where entire albums can be downloaded for free, try some of these suggestions to see what we're talking about:
Those are just a few examples. Some are available on CD and some are not. Some are in stereo and some are only available in mono. ALL of them put the musicians in the room in a very natural presentation. And ALL of them are recordings of great jazz and great jazz artists in their prime. And dare I say it ... the SR Black fuses bring out more of the accurate, natural sound of the instruments.
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