Synergistic Red Fuse ...

^^^ Fine people indeed.  Their service is great too. I met Alfred at the Newport show this past June. We had a nice talk.  I was  hoping to meet Betty too, but she had to stay home to take care of the business. 

OP

That is great news about High End Electronics giving a 30 day trial on Audio Magic Fuses. The owners Alfred and Betty Kainz are fine people.

David Pritchard

^^^ Competition is a great thing. It makes everyone strive harder to be the best ... and the end consumer is the beneficiary.

Wolfie ...  

Living under that troll bridge must be really detrimental to the sound of your system. Try a ten-pack of Synergistic Research's High Frequency Transducers (HFT's)  to tame the echo.  :-)

davidpritchard
487 posts
08-05-2016 10:01pm

I wish everyone and his brother and their dealers offered 30 day or 60 day returns on their fuses and A/C wall outlets. Perhaps it is more common than I think, but it is just not universally true. The Cable Company does not allow for fuse returns except for Synergistic Research, if I am reading their fine print about returns correctly.

I just spoke with Betty At High End Electronics in Apple Valley, CA who assured me there is a 30 day money back guarantee policy for SR and Audio Magic fuses. I also spoke with Roger at Music Direct in Chicago who assured me they have a 60 day return policy for all HiFi Tuning fuses, including their very popular Supreme fuse. AMR Gold Fuse from UK is actually advertised on eBay with, you guessed it, a 30 day money back guarantee.

"I looked but I didn't find anything." - Old audiophile expression

Sorry Papa, I can only assume your check from SR is late and you're grumpy…this thread should continue in it's mindless and unfunny worship of overpriced pseudo tweaks any time now...

Wolfie ...

I've read in a respected medical journal that the insertion of those PS audio plugs can make a person feel uptight and in severe cases produce an overwhelming compulsion to write inane things on audio boards.     

OP

I put those PS audio plugs in years ago as they're great for my antique iron lung collection. And you have to wonder how many people would install good wall plugs and after 29 days would think, "gee, these things just don't cut it"…and friggin' send  them back! "Dear PS Audio, these wall plugs simply don't make me happy enough, so GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK"...

I wish everyone and his brother and their dealers offered  30 day or 60 day returns on their fuses and A/C wall outlets. Perhaps it is more common than I think, but it is just not universally true. The Cable Company does not allow for fuse returns except for Synergistic Research, if I am reading their fine print about returns correctly. 

So for non Synergistic Research companies I suggest getting a return policy approved prior to purchase. Audio Magic does not state their return policy at their web page that I just reviewed or at two of their dealer websites -Jaguar Audio and High End Electronics.

I do think knowing for sure what the return policy is for these products will allow those sitting on the fence to find out for themselves how much fuses and outlets affect the sound of their systems. I hope the untried will take the plunge and audition fuses and outlets. There  are many fuses sold that will sound better than the fuse originally sent by the manufacturer of the equipment.

Maybe Audio Magic will post their policy here at this thread. It certainly is an innovative company with a host of products. The owner has been kind enough to invite me to hear his personal system in the past while I attended previous Rocky Mountain Audiofest.

David Pritchard

If I haven't compared directly in the same products the SR Black vs the Besswax I compared the SR Red vs the Beeswax (1st generation) in my preamp and the AM is a very clear winner in my system.
The Black is another animal.

davidpritchard wrote,

"From a practical standpoint the Synergistic Research 30 day return policy allows one to audition what a fuse can do to the sonics of their system with the peace of mind that if they do not like the change they can get their money back."

if I recall correctly Audio Magic offers a 60 day return policy. That’s an even more practical standpoint, eh? In fact, and I yes I know we’ve been over this before, everyone and his brother offers a 30 day return policy. So in and of itself that policy you constantly mention is no advantage, you know, per se. when I say you constantly mention, this is what I'm referring to:

"Finally they are one of the few companies that allow and encourage a 30 day trial."

Cheers,

geoff

^^^  David ...

You had question about the makeup of the Von Gaylord IC/s, I contacted Ray, and here's what he sent:

"The 7000s IC is designed with Silver, Copper, and Alloy.

The Cable comes in two different version : Shielded and non-shielded

Shielded version is designed for sensitive system. (easy pick up " Hum )"

Take care ...

OP

barbapapa:
Thank you for posting your results using the Audio Magic Beeswax fuse.
I do think the Synergistic Research Black fuses and (now with your report) the A.M. Beeswax fuses are the top performing fuses available for audio equipment.

From a practical standpoint the Synergistic Research 30 day return policy allows one to audition what a fuse can do to the sonics of their system with the peace of mind that if they do not like the change they can get their money back.

My systems have been upgraded to all SR Black fuses for many hundreds of hours of listening pleasure. I would not want to go back to the fuses available in 2012 such as the Isoclean or Furutech. And these fuses were a step better than the original stock fuses supplied by the equipment manufacturers.

David Pritchard

I burned in my Besswax fuse in the pre (260 hours).
 There is very notable musical enhancement. Of all the sound parameters the most noticable is an organic music that is at the same time shoking and relaxing as if you were assured that this is like the music should be. 
Organic is the word that comes to mind. Lots of details but all in a coherent and realistic way. 
There is now a new version of the Beeswax (the SHD) that is said by Peter Hansen (Cable Co) to be a significative step beyond.
I will try it soon in my pre. (If someone is interested in a classic little ued Beeswax 6x32 mm 1,5A slow blow at good price please let me know).
I also have SR Black in my amps that are near 60 hours now. They are great also. Maybe more spectacular in bass boom and spectacular scene and many other things that have descibed at long in this thread. They still need to burn in until at least 100 hours before judging them definitely.
Both products are great and I made the choice of mixing both but it is an arbitrary choice only empirical. An hypothesis that both could combine.
Please forgive my english as it is not my native language.
JY

I'd say Geoff definitely passes the Turing test...

georgelofi
1,648 posts
08-03-2016 7:58pm
Me thinks geoffkait is using "bot speak" for some answers, as it’s way too out there to be a human being on the other end with some of the voodoo answers it’s thinking up.

That would be illogical, Captain. Your feeling snowed by some of my answers just might have something to do with the fact that you were an English Major. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. My design of an interplanetary rocket engine using metal crystal structure bombarded by high-energy ions was almost 50 years ago.

;-)

cheerios,

Geoff Kait

Me thinks geoffkait is using "bot speak" for some answers, as it's way too out there to be a human being on the other end with some of the voodoo answers it's thinking up.

Cheers George  

jetter
121 posts
08-03-2016 7:33pm
Geoff, is it your basic premise that the drawing of the metal through a hole in a die or draw plate to form the wire imparts a directionality to it? Not sure how this works.

Yes, that’s the premise, that drawing the wire through the final die imparts a direction of the crystal grains as it were on the surface and below the surface of the wire. It’s because metal has a crystal structure, that is homogeneous in it’s liquid state as well as it's first solid state (no pun) but deformed by a series of cuttings and drawings through dies, including drawing through the final die. The music signal apparently prefers to travel down one direction rather than the other. Perhaps the metal wire is like a porcupine which would prefer to be stroked in the direction of it’s quills rather than against the grain as it were. If I had to guess, I’d imagine the ubiquitous "single crystal wire" is not nearly as directional - if at all - as ordinary wire. This also might explain why carbon wire and Graphene wire and lead wire (!) (not that I’ve heard lead wire) sound so good, inasmuch as those materials are not crystal in nature, but homogeneous.

Colonel Kurtz: Did they say why, Willard, why they want to terminate my command?
Capt. Benjamin Willard: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.
Colonel Kurtz: It's no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?
Capt. Benjamin Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Colonel Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Capt. Benjamin Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
Colonel Kurtz: I expected someone like you. What did you expect? Are you an assassin?
Capt. Benjamin Willard: I'm a soldier....

Geoff, is it your basic premise that the drawing of the metal through a hole in a die or draw plate to form the wire imparts a directionality to it?  Not sure how this works.

geoffkait

"He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And he's still in the field commanding troops." 

apropos for these times

All the best,
Nonoise

Almarg quoted Atmaspere,

Atmasphere 5-26-2016 12:31pm edt
"I joined this thread recently with some results on testing. Those results are that the directionality appears out of coincidence and that actually greater improvement can be had by rotating the fuse in the holder for best contact. The improvement is measurable and audible; descriptions others have made on this thread of what happens when you get the direction right accurately describe what happens when the contact area is maximized.

Occam’s Razor has something to say here! Given that a fuse has to be used in AC circuits and given that people report differences by reversing the fuse, and also understanding how fuses are inherently incapable of having directionality in any way whatsoever, the explanation that they somehow have an effect by reversing them in the holder is a fairly complex explanation: some sort of unknowable, unmeasurable quality of the fuse itself.

A simpler explanation is that the reversal is improving the contact area because fuse and holder are not dimensionally perfect and the fuse might sit better in the holder in one direction. By rotating the fuse in the holder without reversing it gets the same effect only more profoundly."

With all due respect to Al and Ralph wire directionality is not some new-fangled theory, the directionality of wire including fuses has been known around high end audio circles for almost three decades. Many high end cable manufacturers, including but not limited to Audioquest and Goertz and Anti Cables, have been aware of wire directionality for eons. That’s why their cables - their unshielded cables - are marked with ARROWS, just as many aftermarket fuses are marked with ARROWS. But we’ve covered all this before. The fuse holder theory is what I call a red herring. Now I’m not saying the fuse holder isn’t totally blameless, and perhaps there could be some audible differences, who knows. By using Acme Audio silver plated fuse holder and Quicksilver Gold contact enhancer one can easily eliminate any so-called fuse holder issues. Here’s the summary of the fuse measurement provided on the HiFi Tuning website for those who haven’t seen it.

a. A smaller fuse has always a bigger resistance than a bigger fuse (as well value as size) which is dependent on physics laws. With smaller value fuses, also the current through the fuse decreases. So the total power loss stays more or less the same.

b. A fuse with smaller dimensions always gives better results, than same value fuse with bigger dimensions.

c. High Quality special High End fuses normally give better measurements results than standard fuses.

d. Fuses made in far east sometimes had worse results than standard fuses. Also manufacturing quality different more.

e. The Infinity Power Evolution 500 mA fuse (palladium) had a bad manufacturing quality.

Thanks Geoff... That's what I figured. Happy listening.

nonoise
2,266 posts
08-03-2016 5:15pm
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving this thread."

"Well, you see Willard . . . In this war, things get confused out there, power, ideals, the old morality, practical military necessity. But out there with these natives, it must be a temptation to be god. Because there’s a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil."

aolmrd1241
418 posts
08-03-2016 6:13pm
Geoffkait:"’ll give you some hints. No house AC, no power cords, no Ground, no interconnects, no speaker cables, no fuses, no transformers. No problems."

To which aolmrd1241 replied,

Since you want me to guess... I guess..... a transistor radio or a Sony wallkman. Am I close?

You’re close. Very close. I have a Sony Walkman with Sony Ultralight headphones, also a Sony Portable Cassette Player, Pro version. Mounted on my new Woody the Woodpecker isolation stand. Tweaked to the max. Even the tweaks are tweaked.

Cheers

"’ll give you some hints. No house AC, no power cords, no Ground, no interconnects, no speaker cables, no fuses, no transformers. No problems."


Since you want me to guess... I guess..... a transistor radio or a Sony wallkman. Am I close? 

"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving this thread."
:-)

All the best,
Nonoise

wolf_garcia
2,554 posts
08-03-2016 1:25pm
It's difficult to refuse the fuseless who claim a fusion with fancy fuse users. Oh, and the answer to Geoffkait's list of questions is: All of the above.

The refuseniks get things all mixed up instead of all fixed up.

When you ass-u-me something you make a fool out of me and Uma Thurman.

mapman
13,572 posts
08-03-2016 1:15pm
GK you are the champ there for sure.

Mapman, You’re neither. You’re an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

;-)

aolmrd1241
417 posts
08-03-2016 11:09am
Geoff posted..."As much as I would like to take you up on your suggestion to try a DC fuse in lieu of an AC fuse of the same amp rating I am absolutely the wrong person for this task as my current system actually contains no fuses, nor any fuse holders, nor is any such thing necessary as my system is completely independent of house AC, a couple AA size batteries suffice."

To which aolmrd1241 replied,

"Geoff. I asked you a while back to elaborate on your sysem.What exactly are you using at home? Thanks."

I’ll give you some hints. No house AC, no power cords, no Ground, no interconnects, no speaker cables, no fuses, no transformers. No problems.

It's difficult to refuse the fuseless who claim a fusion with fancy fuse users. Oh, and the answer to Geoffkait's list of questions is: All of the above. 

 
mapman
13,570 posts
08-03-2016 12:00pm
You must be thinking of someone else. You get confused easily.

What's this, Revenge of the Nerds, Part 2? Night of the Living Trolls?

jetter
120 posts
08-03-2016 12:56pm
geoff, I work for an electric utility. There is no consideration given to wire directionality when putting up power lines. Is the assumption that wire directionality matters in some situations, such as fuses and carrying a sound signal, but not others? Just askin.
George

That’s nothing, George. It took 10 years for Marconi to realize that (electromagnetic) radio waves traveled farther a lot farther, when they have shorter wavelengths, not longer ones. Live and learn. I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears your electric utility didn’t get the memo regarding wire directionality. That’s nothing very new, by the way, most high end amplifier manufacturers didn’t get the memo, either. C’est la vie. Of course the wire in the wrong direction will work OK. No one said it wouldn’t. It just doesn’t work best for sound quality, that’s all. It’ll sound OK, particularly to the uh, uninitiated.

cheers

geoff, I work for an electric utility.  There is no consideration given to wire directionality when putting up power lines.  Is the assumption that wire directionality matters in some situations, such as fuses and carrying a sound signal, but not others?  Just askin.
George

You must be thinking of someone else. You get confused easily.

 
mapman
13,569 posts
08-03-2016 10:58am
Just read the thread again if you must ask that. It's all there pilgrim. Turn off whatever it is in you that filters out anything not in line with your agenda.

Just as I thought. You're just having another bad hair day. 

Geoff posted..."As much as I would like to take you up on your suggestion to try a DC fuse in lieu of an AC fuse of the same amp rating I am absolutely the wrong person for this task as my current system actually contains no fuses, nor any fuse holders, nor is any such thing necessary as my system is completely independent of house AC, a couple AA size batteries suffice."


Geoff. I asked you a while back to elaborate on your sysem.What exactly are you using at home? Thanks.

Just read the thread again if you must ask that.  It's all there pilgrim.  Turn off whatever it is in you that filters out anything not in line with your agenda.

 
mapman
13,567 posts
08-03-2016 10:45am
GEoff you are blowing purely hot air at this point. You'd be much better off stopping already, but I doubt you will. Spend more time on reading comprehension.

Really? What don't I comprehend, grasshopper? Share, share....

GEoff you are blowing purely hot air at this point.   You'd be much better off stopping already, but I doubt you will.  Spend more time on reading comprehension.

There are always at least a few people in the world who believe or can be convinced of most anything, real or not.

Al, I believe we already established that the fuse holder can be eliminated from the list of culprits, as much as you and Atmasphere seem to enjoy that theory. As for wire and fuse directionality in AC circuits, Haven’t you and Atmasphere been paying attention? HiFi Tuning has already established (some time ago) that fuses are directional in AC circuits as well as DC circuits. Hel-looo!

now, let me ask you a question. Do you really think that if fuses were not directional there would be SO MANY reports from experienced, advanced audiophiles, not only on this thread here but on many audio forums over the past 15 years or more? Do you and Atmasphere, who one assumes have no experience with aftermarket fuses (correct me of I'm wrong), believe that fuse directionality is:

1. A hoax
2. Group hypnosis
3. Placebo Effect
4. Expectation bias
5. A conspiracy by aftermarket fuse makers and their shills
6. All of the above

Geoff Kait

Geoffkait 8-3-2016 6:58 am edt
To be fair - and correct - the technically experienced here have been saying either that fuses ARE directional or that fuses MIGHT BE directional.

Not sure whom that might be. In any event, in the opinion of this technically experienced person (i.e., me) the best insight into the question of fuse directionality, at least in the case of AC applications, was provided in this thread by Ralph of Atma-Sphere. Some excerpts:

Atmasphere 5-23-2016 4:52pm edt
It has to do with the fact that the connections on fuse holders are not perfect. The act of reversing the fuse sometimes gets you a better connection. However, directionality really isn’t the issue. Similar to a power switch, the contact area of the fuse holder that is actually doing the work is a fraction of the total contact area. As a result, if you simply rotate the fuse in its holder, you will find that there is a best position where more of the fuse holder contact area is touching the fuse contacts. When the fuse was reversed, on occasion you got better contact or worse contact, which appears initially to be a directional issue, but that is really an illusion.

Interestingly, this effect is measurable as a voltage drop across the fuse holder. As you might expect, the less voltage drop the better. So it is possible to adjust (rotate) the fuse in the holder for minimum voltage drop and thus the best performance. A side benefit is the fuse will last a little longer as the operating temperature is reduced.

Atmasphere 5-26-2016 12:31pm edt
I joined this thread recently with some results on testing. Those results are that the directionality appears out of coincidence and that actually greater improvement can be had by rotating the fuse in the holder for best contact. The improvement is measurable and audible; descriptions others have made on this thread of what happens when you get the direction right accurately describe what happens when the contact area is maximized.

Occam’s Razor has something to say here! Given that a fuse has to be used in AC circuits and given that people report differences by reversing the fuse, and also understanding how fuses are inherently incapable of having directionality in any way whatsoever, the explanation that they somehow have an effect by reversing them in the holder is a fairly complex explanation: some sort of unknowable, unmeasurable quality of the fuse itself.

A simpler explanation is that the reversal is improving the contact area because fuse and holder are not dimensionally perfect and the fuse might sit better in the holder in one direction. By rotating the fuse in the holder without reversing it gets the same effect only more profoundly.

Regards,
-- Al

andynotadam

"As I understand things around here, this is a thread devoted to sharing our PERSONAL experiences ... So, to put it bluntly, if you have no personal experience with these products, feel free to lurk, or to sincerely ask questions, but otherwise, please save yourself the agita and the wasted keystrokes, and let the rest of us get on with our little hobby.... "

Sorry, but these forums don't work that way. Everyone is free to contribute. Please feel free to ignore those renderings that are not of value to you. Please feel free to alert the moderators to inappropriate posts. To be as blunt as you, it's simply not your role - or mine - to limit discussion on these forums.

jetter
119 posts
08-03-2016 7:14am
I am the caveman here, I don't believe in wire directionality of bare wire, as it relates to carrying a signal.


Just curious, with all the evidence for wire directionality that has piled up in the past twenty years, what evidence, technical or otherwise, do you have to support your belief that wire directionality doesn't exist?  Or is it just your gut feeling?

I am the caveman here, I don't believe in wire directionality of bare wire, as it relates to carrying a signal. 

Georgelofi wrote,

"A few posters here actually tried these products and found that they could perceive no sonic changes, or no changes for the better. I totally respect them and their views and I appreciate their contributions to this thread.

And this backs what the technical experienced here have been saying all along."

To be fair - and correct - the technically experienced here have been saying either that fuses ARE directional or that fuses MIGHT BE directional. It's the technically inexperienced ones here who have been railing against fuse directionality. Besides, everyone and his brother knows there are perfectly valid reasons why some people get bad results from certain audio tweaks. Them's the breaks. You can't save the world.

No it doesn't, but it may have an obvious list.
You've been a member for a total of 11 days, in which you've had 7 posts, first post promoting the SR Black Quantum fuse, all bar one are on this one fuse topic.
I'll leave the rest for others to work out.

Cheers George
  

Does this forum have an ignore list feature? I couldn't find one.