I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
I have eight Black fuses in my system. I had one that was rated at the stock size blow upon power up. I got a free replacement, but went up to the next higher rating and have had absolutely no problems. Since then I have modestly up-rated the Black fuses I subsequently purchased for other equipment. I have had no problems, and I do not fear burning the house down as I am confident that anything approaching a dead short will quickly blow the fuse--at almost any rating of fuse well shy of the current capacity of the breaker. Yet all my Black fuses are in the 2-3+ amp range save the one in my power distributor.
As an aside, is it just me or does anyone else find the use of the word "Cheers" disconcerting at the close of any of George's Debbie Downer screeds?
Doesn't a fuse prove its reliability when it blows? I mean, what are we relying upon when we put a fuse into a piece of electronics? Surely not that it will never blow no matter what.
Bait for the sake of safety? I hardly think so. As I said.
"
As most here don't know if they're changing an ac mains fuse, dc rail fuse or speaker protection fuse. Maybe we've saved a future life, or at least a piece of equipment."
No one, unless they know what their doing with proper monitoring equipment, should up the amperage rating on a fuse.
almarg: "So my basic intention is to provide food for thought, rather than advocacy. Although per my various posts on the subject I would not consider it to be an unreasonable course of action for someone who wants to try SR fuses to choose values that are one or even two increments higher than stock, and in the end perhaps avoid wasting several hundred dollars as a result."
Reads quite differently when not taken out of context, eh, Mighty Mouse?
Ain’t it a pisser when real technical experts like Al refuse to take your bait?
So my basic intention is to provide food for thought, rather than advocacy
So your not advocating, increasing the fuse amperage from the manufacturers specified value/s.
This is good Al, for the sake of safety. As most here don't know if they're changing an ac mains fuse, dc rail fuse or speaker protection fuse. Maybe we've saved a future life, or at least a piece of equipment.
The point to the Q&A in my previous post is that we don’t even know if an SR Black 5 amp fuse should truly be considered to be a 5 amp fuse, as opposed to a 4 amp fuse or something even lower. And the reports we’ve seen from a number of people of blown SR fuses would seem to suggest that one of the latter possibilities could very well be the case, for many if not most or all ratings. Also, fuse derating (the margin between the current rating a designer has chosen for a fuse and the amount of current it conducts under normal conditions) is not a precise science, with designer preferences, the limited number of choices that are imposed by standard rating values, and turn-on inrush currents and other characteristics of the particular design all factoring into it.
So my basic intention is to provide food for thought, rather than advocacy. Although per my various posts on the subject I would not consider it to be an unreasonable course of action for someone who wants to try SR fuses to choose values that are one or even two increments higher than stock, and in the end perhaps avoid wasting several hundred dollars as a result. I respect the fact that your opinion differs, and as I said earlier, given the lack of meaningful technical data on the SR fuses I don’t think anyone can provide an answer to this question with certainty.
You need to answer this question Al, for safety sake, as many here hang on your words.
Are you or are you not advocating that anyone else replace a manufacturers given fuse value with something higher, especially if they have no technical background, so they can monitor any problems like you can
Al, your silence is deafening, are you getting splinters?
Hi George,
At this point a multitude of opinions and experiences have been stated that are relevant to choosing the current rating of an SR fuse, including opinions from technically knowledgeable people such as you and I. Those reading the thread who intend to try SR fuses can and will form their own decisions as to how to proceed.
For those who may be pondering this question, though, I'll add the following question and answer to my previous comments on the matter:
Question: Are the protection characteristics of a stock 5 amp fuse, especially the combinations of current and time that would cause it to blow, most closely approximated by an SR Black 5 amp fuse, or by an SR Black 6.3 amp fuse, or by some other SR Black fuse?
Uh, Georgie, sorry to burst your bubble but there is no safety issue for fuses. If there was don’t you think UL certification for aftermarket fuses would be a requirement? Hel-loo! The question is still hanging out there - has anyone’s house ever burned down due to a fuse? Answer at 11.
See the mods have seen fit to delete the voodooists posts that were sticking it to Wolfy, for preaching the safety aspect that’s been grossly overlooked by the fusers, or maybe they are also starting to see the truth/fact behind this snake oil.
The reliability of any fuse is something you should ABSOLUTELY be able to count on, as well as trust that the manufacturer of any fuse is sophisticated enough to accurately rate what is essentially (or only) a safety item. If they're not able to at least do that they should get their act together or take the product off the market. Qualms…I got qualms...
In any event, given the lack of meaningful technical data on the SR fuses I don’t think anyone can provide an answer to this question with any kind of certainty
Given this when playing around with mains voltages, I’m saying it’s better to be safe than sorry. I understand that you have "no qualms" personally yourself doing it as your capable of monitoring it. But surely your not giving the go ahead to other to do it as well, as it is mains safety issue were talking about.
Georgelofi 2-7-2017 Moving up in amperage with mains fuses, is unsafe.
Doing this is a very unsafe practice. It will very likely burn out more than just the fuse. EG: regulators, rectifiers, or maybe even the transformer. + whatever caused the fuse to blow in the first place. The worst is it could start a fire, and take out your house.
On the other hand, though, given the various reports we’ve seen in this thread of SR fuses blowing when they shouldn’t it could be argued that going up one or even two rating increments with SR fuses is likely to result in the fuse having a melting point (as measured in amps squared x seconds) that is **closer** to that of the stock fuse than an SR fuse having the same current rating as the stock fuse.
Although admittedly the basis for such a contention is muddled by the fact that some (although by no means all) of the reported false blows have occurred at turn-on, when very brief "inrush" current surges, that are expectable in many designs, may greatly exceed the rating of the stock fuses.
In any event, given the lack of meaningful technical data on the SR fuses I don’t think anyone can provide an answer to this question with any kind of certainty, and it is a question about which the opinions of reasonable people (and technically knowledgeable people) can differ IMO. Also, given that some have reported good results with SR fuses that are rated even a bit lower than the ratings of the stock fuses, the answer certainly figures to be equipment dependent.
FWIW, my opinion on this question was stated in a post in this thread dated 1-14-2017, near the top of page 64 (if posts are sorted most recent last). Which was to the effect that I personally would have no qualms about going up one or even two rating increments.
Just to point out that in the twenty or so years since aftermarket fuses first hit the scene, you know Iso Clean and HiFi Tuning, to name two, most likely the first two, there has never been a single documented case where a failure of one of those persnickety little things caused a house to burn down. Are the trolls out of ammo? What’s the next silly claim - that they cause cancer?
moving up 1 step for ampere rating is an acceptable practice.
Moving up in amperage with mains fuses, is unsafe.
Doing this is a very unsafe practice. It will very likely burn out more than just the fuse. EG: regulators, rectifiers, or maybe even the transformer. + whatever caused the fuse to blow in the first place. The worst is it could start a fire, and take out your house.
they add nothing to the discussion
That’s because it’s snake oil and as the above states playing with mains components like this is a very unsafe practice, and very dangerous.
I want the moderator of Audiogon to get rid of Wolf-Garcia and Georgelofi from this blog. As he or she can clearly read, they add nothing to the discussion, only disgust.
"
Hello Highstream, Although I’ve had no blown Black fuses (slo blo) in my components I believe as others have stated, moving up 1 step for ampere rating is an acceptable practice. Charles"
The question I have at the moment whether or not it's necessary - or very prudent - to go up based on people's experience. I only pose it this way at the moment because I've come across a pair of used Blacks at a good price that match the specs of soon to arrive bi-amped active speakers. Thanks,
Ear wax fuses are even better, as they have a more humane sound to them, they don't buzz like bees-wax ones, give them a go. I promised not give the suppliers name as he doesn’t want to rushed with orders. As he can only suck enough out of his families ears for one fuse a week. So you’ll have to search for it, but keep it to yourself.
wolf garcia, we get it you think that fuses are snake oil, I have nothing to prove to you, believe what you want, but have you tried a beeswax fuse, probably not.
Hi kedoades, The differences you note between the Red fuse and the Beeswax fuse is what I and others hear comparing the Red vs Black fuses. I honestly believe that both (Beeswax and Black) are terrific and will always be listener and component/system specific. Enjoy! Charles
Try this. Leave the listening room and have somebody swap your Special Fuses out (or not) and replace them with un-special fuses like something from Littelfuse or maybe Bob's Discount Fuse House…come back and listen to your rig…do this again a few times to see if you can tell when the fuses are different. I'm assuming the Special Fuses don't lose their "broken in" status when briefly removed (damn…there goes 170 hours!)…note the results. Did cello's feel less cello-like? Did the soundstage seem less soundstagey? I doubt any Fusers are going to do this experiment, but hey…you could claim to do it and fake the results to gain credibility among Real Audiophiles. Win win. Also, paint Jujubes silver and replace the tiny SR "transducer" dot things with them and try this experiment again, although this version may be flawed when it's discovered that painted Jujubes work really well in that role. I just think the damn things stick to my teeth too much.
for those of you that are interested in the audio magic beeswax shd fuse compared to the synergistic red fuse, I have had mine going for a couple days now. At first there wasn't much of a change in sound than with the red fuse. After 2 longs days of burning in the beeswax fuse though I now think that the audio magic fuse is going to be something special. It expands the soundstage, relaxes the presentation and most of all it just makes music sound more natural and real. I only have 2 days on it so I need more time to evaluate it but I prefer it over the red already. I have not tried a black fuse yet but may in the future.
No matter how technically astute or insightful my explanation of how aftermarket fuses work you don’t have to look too hard to find some pseudo skeptic or knucklehead who disagrees with me or who says, this cannot be or science won't allow it. This is stacking up to be just another sad episode of 12 Angry Men. Don’t worry, be happy.
Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica We do the difficult with ease, the impossible takes longer
Hello Frank, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to prepare and send these recordings. I can’t wait to hear them. The last batch of recordings you sent me were excellent and a pleasure to listen to. Charles
Good things will be coming your way soon. I'm in the process of putting together a package for you. Included will be the Milt Jackson "Second Nature" album that I mentioned above. It's early Jackson when he was at his best in my opinion.
Jim, I think to a degree we have. Thankfully, knowledgeable,perceptive and Honest Audiophiles have clarified for all that this 'talk' or should I say "cheap promotion" of Synergistic Red fuses and Synergistic Quantum Black fuses was the spewing of "nonsense" (childish and idiotic nonsense) from the beginning. geogelofi analysed it all very nicely and in an summed it up it very succinctly, in an intelligent and balanced comment -- "
I just don't get shysters, preaching this sort of voodoo". Cheers ....................
John, we have indeed! Scores of professional reviewers, builders, and actual audiophile/music lovers have all heard the wonderful improvement. Hundreds if not thousands of us mere mortals!
How they work has been explained here and elsewhere. They work and scores of sane people attest to that fact. All that now remains is this fun reading. I rather enjoy it.
Not all have have heard it, but not all have heard differences in most anything from wire to amps. Heck, many of my friends can’t hear the difference between a great tube amp and a Kenwood receiver! Many good reasons for that could fill a book. Perfectly understandable some have not.
Sure, a verdict has already been reached and the rest of this is just for fun.
Sorry but there is no conversation on this topic, as your not prepared to.
That you name the members here who are highly technical, that back your findings of these $$$ mains fuses. 1: Being directional 2:That can magically escalate the sound quality of ones system.
George, you really don't get the whole Appeal to Authority thing, do you?
I just don't get shysters, preaching this sort of voodoo, like I said please.
That you name the members here who are highly technical, that back your findings of these $$$ mains fuses. 1: Being directional 2:That can magically escalate the sound quality of ones system.
Is it so hard?? All I ask is that you voodoo’ist name the members here who are highly technical, that back your findings of these $$$ mains fuses. 1: Being directional 2:That can magically escalate the sound quality of ones system.
georgelofi I believe he was referring to the very few who keep beating the drum of skepticism in a negative way.
They are the ones that are technical ones, and not voodoo drum beaters.
Please name and show any posts of any of the known technical member’s here on these forums, that back the things being said about what these $$$ fuses are doing amazing things for the sound, similar to what the voodoo’ist are saying, and the directional application of them.
Been there, done that. The technical explanations why fancy fuses outperform stock fuses has been provided ad nauseum by yours truly. Ad nauseum, you know, like your demands for them. 😀
Rule no. 1. Never give a technical explanation to a non technical person. It's goes whoosh!
Besides, this isn’t going to be another one of those I’ll show you my credentials if you show me yours debates, is it? 😁
I believe he was referring to the very few who keep beating the drum of skepticism in a negative way.
They are the ones that are technical ones, and not voodoo drum beaters.
Please name and show any posts of any of the known technical member’s here on these forums, that back the things being said about what these $$$ fuses are doing amazing things for the sound, similar to what the voodoo’ist are saying, and the directional application of them.
Trolls should be welcomed with open arms. Aside from giving out name tags M, T and S there’s not much you can do. In addition, when things get a little tedious or self congratulatory on any number of audio subjects along come the trolls to loosen things up and play pseudo skeptic or Devil’s advocate. As far as I know the long standing practice of leaving Roach Motels out overnight has been largely ineffective and should probably be curtailed.
There’s a fine line between a troll and a skeptic. But there’s an even finer line between an enthusiast and a shill. - old audio axiom
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