I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
The increasing number of audiogon participants reporting positive listening experiences with the SR Black fuses is really good news. I'm happy that more music lovers have discovered this exceptional audio system tweak. Increasing the enjoyment of listening to music at home is what we all desire. Congratulations to all of you who took the chance to try these fantastic fuses. As has been repeated by others here, they do improve sonically with additional hours of use. Mine have over 100 hours but still sound as though they're continuing to improve. Best Regards, Charles,
Every parameter of the sound improved in my system. I cannot imagine where it would bring even one negative to a system. I could be wrong though. To me upgrading the fuses has a different result than a power cord or a tweak of another kind. That seems to add something more than something else. The fuses though seems to me it would be like the result you may get upgrading all the all the critical circuit components and wire in your pieces. The balance of sound parameters stays the same relative to each other, it is just everything is improved.
My system uses a all solid state.
All your questions will be answered when you put one in. Except maybe the one that goes like this, How can a fuse do that?
In my case: all tubes except a SS DAC, and no power conditioning. I'd describe the presentation as "new" rather than some quality being enhanced. The only concern I'd have is with a system that was artificially bright or boomy, because these fuses are definitely not rounded off at the extremes.
Perception is a tricky thing, but it's almost as if "flow" has been restricted in the most unlikely of places, and we've been trying to compensate with very expensive components, but these fuses just un-clog the fundamental pipe.
I have not heard their cables so I can not say how well the perform.
But Graphene and its potential in many different uses is very interesting, let alone its potential in Audio.
PS I remember reading a respected Audio designer was developing cables made out of Graphene (I believe they were close to pure Graphene). This was a report from one of the shows in Europe about two years ago.
Unfortunately, I have kids still going to college, still a mortgage, and saving for retirement. I really can’t justify spending hundreds of dollars at present on fuses. I've spent tens of thousands to date already to get where I am and I am currently thrilled to death with the sound of my stuff. I spend many hours a week listening. Maybe someday. Good sound is always a good investment for me. Can't live without it most likely.
BTW I grew up in Amish country. No joke. Maybe that’s part of my problem. My wife and kid’s tease me about it all the time.
"....BLACK featuring a patent pending UEF coating and Graphene with 8 million times the conductive density of copper... " Let's make it 5 billion times... I've read reports , SR20 is manufactured by a german SIBA. Apparently, when you peel off the fuse a sticker, you can see SIBA logo and even the fuse catalog no. And the original fuse, SIBA cost 50 cent or so. Of course, the tunneling process is an added value and makes SR20 a good sounding fuse.
^^^ Personally, what I care about is what the products are doing for my audio system. I could care less about any drama and/or the technology. Hey, I'm a salesman not an engineer. Engineers analyze everything to death. They suffer from "analysis paralysis." That's a very good thing. We need them. We wouldn't be flying five miles in the sky at 500 miles per hour in a perfectly safe, pressurized, air conditioned environment without them. On the other hand, good sales people can make quick decisions without a second thought, being totally satisfied with a 95% success rate. I took a chance on one little fuse, and look where its lead to.
When someone starts taking to me about ohms, slew rates, capacitors, resistors ... and things like that, my eyes glaze over. I'd rather eat Limburger cheese with anchovies. All I want is the music.
This is what I know: These fuses, both the SR RED and the SR Black are a revelation. Totally system changing and all for the better. Everything is relative, of course, but in my system, that's the outcome I've experienced.
mapman ...
As a professional salesman, working in commissioned sales for over 50 years, I thrive, and survive, on convincing doubters to buy from me. So here's an offer you can't refuse: Can you use a 3 amp fuse anywhere in your system? If you want to try an SR RED 3 amp fuse, I can send you the one that I replaced with a SR BLACK fuse. No charge. Already broken in. Its on me. If you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, pass it on to one of your audio buddies. Or ... you can send it back and I'll gift it to someone else.
Shoot me your email address and we'll go from there.
That’s a very nice offer OP and much appreciated. I’ll have to see what’s in what I have. Were I to do this I’d likely start with the DAC, an mhdt Constantine. It has see through plexi glass like casing that is easy to remove as well.
I was an electronics and electronics part salesman for a bit when younger. I let products speak for themselves. Exaggerated claims were not necessary for success. Just know how to help a person find the right solution to their problem. Technical knowledge and expertise helped greatly. The best salesmen were generally the most honest and knowledgeable. Many fuses were sold to happy customers. Usually about 50 cents for a pack of three. Strange nobody ever asked me how they sounded. I would not have known what to say. Simpler times....
Hi Frank,that's a nice gesture and demonstrates the friendly community environment I'd mentioned in an earlier post,. That's what I did with my friend Jeff, a borrowed SR Red and then a borrowed Black fuse. He listened and that was all it took. Why get too caught up in the marketing and questioning the materials. Interesting to know what things are made of but you'd still have to listen to determine the true worth and competence of an audio product. Frank you're right, you can analyze and speculate for ever, just simply listen. We're talking about 100 dollars not thousands (thank goodness)😊 Again, a very nice and sincere offer Frank. Charles,
Almarg, I have several Red fuses that are now my spares. They are 3 amp slo blo. If you can use this value fuse I'll be happy to loan them to you. Consider it a small token of respect for all of your excellent technical contributions to us here over the years. Charles,
Hey ... There's no dust on mapman's brain. Read his last post on what constitutes a successful salesman. Honesty all the way.
Mapman .
Check first. Charles reminded me that the 3 amp fuse I want to send you is a slo-blo. Oh, and its a large one, not the small one. See .. like I said, I'm not technically literate. *lol*
Charles, that’s an exceedingly thoughtful offer, and much appreciated!! 3 amps won’t work for me though, at least in the components I use for critical listening. My VAC amp has a 4 amp fuse in each channel, my Stax headphone amp takes a 1.5 amp fuse, and the fuses in the other components are all a fraction of an amp. Also, my CD player, which (consistent with some of the comments that have been made in the thread) would probably be a logical choice to try first, I’ve just sent back to Bryston for repair of a problem with its display.
Thanks so much, though, for the kindly offer, and for the nice words. Best regards, -- Al
Not to interrupt the SR Black fuse discussion but I sold my RED with 125 hours on it and am enjoying the beeswax immensely. The RED was not a good fit in the VAC preamp. in my situation....it was thin in comparison as I have a very revealing system. Maybe with 300 hours on it that would have magically changed but to late to know.
I just ordered an Audio Horizon fuse to try also and will use whatever works best with the back up after I am done with contenders. For everyone to endorse one fuse as the end all is simply wrong unless you have tried them all in your system.
Hi gwalt, I don't believe the SR BLACK fuses are being promoted as the "end all", certainly not my intention. I've written several times that I suspect that the Beeswax, Telos Quantum X2 or the Audio Horizon are also top tier fuses. I won't buy every single one to test,what would it prove anyway? The results are still listener and system dependent and anyone of them would be considered the best in a given situation. I enthusiastically recommend the Black fuses but I have never declared them the"best" and without peer. That can't be proclaimed for any audio products. Charles,
charles1dad: Absolutely correct. I now have a lot of time with the three types of Synergistic Research fuses and each brings a different sound to the system. In the Horn system the original Synergistic Research SR-20 fuse and the Black fuse work better than the Red in the amp and sub woofer position. I certainly can believe gwalt reaction with the Red in his system.
In the headphone system the Red improved the system more than the original SR-20 in the amp and SACD location. Eleven black fuses arriving tomorrow to test the rail fuse locations for the two SACD players.
I am very glad that Synergistic Research has and encourages their customers to use the 30 day trial. In the end it is what makes my listening the most fullfiling that counts. I hope all readers of this thread will try some premium fuses if they are still using only original fuses. There is a tremendous amount of music that is being silenced or distorted by ordinary fuses!
Thanks for that clarification....maybe I am reading some things incorrectly into the overall discussion from some of the others but not you personally so don't take it that way.
For just a little more money and doing one upfront fed component I am in hopes that I will find a best for my taste. That is what I have done all along and it has worked well for my needs in the past so why not? This is no different that experimenting with cables except it is way cheaper and their are hundreds of cables vs. a few fuses.
As I have also said prior I am glad the Black fuse is working out for those involved and yes agreed their are some top fuses out there as I am discovering. I have a couple more to go and then I will certainly know the differences I prefer.
^^^ Its no secret on this forum that I'm a huge fan of both the SR Red and Black fuses. Are they the very best out there? How would I know? The only experience I've had with fuses are the stock fuses that came with my equipment and the HiFi Tuning fuses that replaced the stock fuses.
Here's what I do know ... I know what they are doing for my system and my system alone.
The most transparent mid range and sound stage I've ever gotten from my system was years ago when I owned a pair of Acoustat lV's. When fed enough power, those huge, ugly panels (I had removed the grill cloths) caused the entire back wall to fall away and the depth went on forever. They sounded incredible. That was almost 25 years ago, and my audio buddies are still talking about those damned Acoustats.
Over the past number of years, I've been using a pair of Legacy Signature III's
The Legacy's never approached the mid range or sound stage of the old Acoustats, but they had better highs and bass. With the SR Black fuses, the Legacy's now outperform the Acoustats in every way, including musicality. I know some people put down the Legacy III's, but that's because they bought them (like the guy I bought them from) and used solid state electronics to drive them. Well, they suck with SS electronics. With tubes, they are exceptional. At 93db they are easy to drive too. My ARC REF 75se just coasts driving these speakers.
This gets me to this morning's listening session. I warmed the system up while making a fine brew of home roasted Guatamalan coffee (Yum!)
The first thing I played was a CD of Bach's orchestral music that consisted of massed strings. Well, those strings filled the entire room, wafting over my head and striking the emotional center of the brain. I sat there shaking my head, dumbfounded at the beauty. It was disbelief suspended.
So again, will the SR fuses work in every system? Perhaps, perhaps not. In Gwalt's system, they do not. At this point, I couldn't care less. My fuse search has ended.
Mapman ...
Have you made a decision on the SR Red fuse I want to send you? Come on man ... I put two daughters through college too. I just want to help a brother out. :-)
I certainly believe in the idea that there are numerous excellent products as opposed to an "one and only best". I bet that I'd likely be very pleased with the Beeswax fuse as I am with the Black fuses. The thing is that I have the Black fuses and they happen to be superb in my system. Either of these fuses would make many listeners very happy is what I believe. The big point for me is that premium level fuses are truly an asset in good quality audio systems. I'm just spreading the word. Gwalt,I have no doubt that the Beeswax fuse sounds superb in your system. Charles,
May I just ask--of all the SR Reds and Blacks being placed, how many of you are exceeding stock ratings by a little or a lot? This is often needed because the SR offerings are high by .5 amp or because the boutique fuses may blow easier at the stock rating. Another reason is a higher rating sounds better, IME. I have pushed the ratings in my AC input fuses by an amp or two. The bigger filament adds more to the overall presentation, I believe. If these AC input fuses are removed, there is no sound--no power. Does this imply all of the AC voltage passes through these tiny filaments? I mean, after all the over-size Romex, the transformers, the dedicated 20 amp lines, the 10 gauge AC cables, etc, are we being choked by these little filaments? Please tell me. If you have Maggies, you have the additional potential to push the stock rating for an unbelievable result--at the midranges and tweeters, I have quadrupled the stock ratings, and I don't worry one bit about it, not with a 4000 watt isolation transformer serving my system--you should have faith in your power supply to do this, I would guess. So, you have found the right fuse, but are you willing to extend that benefit even further?
I don't buy the idea one would be satisfied with any aftermarket fuse. I tried an Audio Magic fuse and the mid was elevated so didn't stay long. BTW, I might still have it so shoot me a PM and it's yours. It's 4 amp slo-blo that fits a VAC pre.
May I just ask--of all the SR Reds and Blacks being placed, how many of you are exceeding stock ratings by a little or a lot?
0 out of 5.
This is often needed because the SR offerings are high by .5 amp or because the boutique fuses may blow easier at the stock rating
. Not from my experience
Another reason is a higher rating sounds better, IME. I have pushed the ratings in my AC input fuses by an amp or two. The bigger filament adds more to the overall presentation, I believe.
That's not my understanding how a fuse works. Bigger fuse doesn't sound better but will take a higher current before it blows.
I've been using the sr reds in my arc preamp and power amp since they were introduced over a year ago. I was gaga over them, and could not believe the improvement. Since my amp was replaced recently by another arc amp, the fuse rating did not match up to the new one, so now, I will replace the fuse in the new amp with a BLACK one...
Given, my new amp is still burning in. It only has 175 hours of 600 needed, but I can already tell, after the fact, that my red fuse that was in my old amp was indispensable and was part responsible for how transparent the old amp sounded.
Now even though my new amp is still burning in, the stock fuse in there, I'm sure, is mucking up the sound. There is a bit of nasally congestion in the upper mids, that I am attributing to the break in process, and or stock fuse. Either way, I'm very much looking forward to getting the stock fuse and going straight to a Black fuse.
If my mind is blown, then I may just upgrade the digital and analogue fuses in my scd5400es. Right now it has the blue furutech fuses in it. The preamp has an SR red. Maggie's fuses are bypassed. (Immense improvement from taking the fuse out of the Maggies) I will never go back to a fused Maggie. I've never had a problem and the transparency and lack of grain is too good to give up.
Thanks, knghifi---I have been under the impression that the higher amperage fuses have a larger filament and probably sound better--more like a straight wire approach.
Audiolover--no fuses at all in your Maggies--what model? I was not willing to alter my 3.6Rs from stock.
I challenge anyone to determine the real break in time for fuses or capacitors or any electronic component for one reason: How can you keep track of the sound closely enough to know when the sound is no longer improving? Do folks stand by and wait patiently for the fuse to break in, monitoring the performance a little bit every day and do nothing else? Then repeat the process for the next fuse? The Duelund capacitors are rumored to take 500 hours or longer to break in and I'm even not sure if that means completely broken in or not. The system and environment cannot be controlled well enough to conduct such an experiment. This is especially true for most audiophiles who are continually moving thing around, changing out one component or another, changing cables, trying various tweaks, changing fuses, changing the direction of fuses, adding room treatment, removing room treatment, etc. There are too many variables. Has anyone used the XLO Test CD burn in track to break in fuses? That would be a little more effective than simply playing music and it can be played non-stop. And if you’re looking to squeeze some more juice out of the tangerine why not cryo the fuse?
jafreeman, a slo-blo fuse is designed to blow if drawing too much current for x amount of time. If you use a larger fuse, your component will blow before the fuse.
I've been thinking, my Hegel H30 uses a 15 amp slo-blo so theoretically if on a 15 amp outlet, the breaker will trip and don't need a fuse ... just hard wired it. But since it's on a 20 amp line, MAYBE not a good idea. I'm just speculating and not bypassing the fuse.
Yes, I no longer have fuse protection in my Maggies--I have been more interested in better sound, so went with the better fuses, then the bigger fuses, thinking bigger is better sounding yet. I will be moving from SR Reds to blacks in my Maggies--will probably push the values as I have done before--unless someone can talk me out of this.
You make an excellent point regarding break in time. I can tell from listening session to listening session what's going on, but do I really hear things accurately? Has it improved overnight ... or not? Or, has the change actually moved things backwards a bit?
I've mentioned my audio buddy Robert a few times in this thread. While I listen to the system early every morning or each evening, Robert only comes over maybe once or twice a week. I trust Robert's ears ... and believe me, he can hear. If something is off-putting about the sound, he pulls no punches pointing it out. I don't call him Mister Cynic for no reason. I can say unequivocally that recorded music and audio is the main thrust in Robert's life. He knows more about recorded music than anyone I know. He's a good person to have as a friend if you're a dedicated audiophile and music lover like most of us who post here.
When I got the first SR Red fuse it had been burned in for a week before Robert heard the result. He was as pleased with the results as I was. When I put the SR Black fuses in the CD player, Robert heard that change after burning in for only 24 hours. His reaction was to tell me to return the Blacks and get the Reds back into the system.
Okay, now fast forward to the next time Robert came over ... about seven days later. He was blown away by the improvements afforded by the Black fuses, now a lot further down the break in path. You can read his comments further up the thread.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is ... if we listen ourselves, we are hearing very small increments of improvement. But when someone knowledgeable goes from one week to another week without hearing the incremental break in improvements, what they hear is one HUGE improvement. That's always been a good gauge for me.
I can tell from listening session to listening session what’s going on, but do I really hear things accurately? Has it improved overnight ... or not? Or, has the change actually moved things backwards a bit?
Not only that but can one be sure a change heard over the time is a change in the fuse? There is a tendancy to attribute a change over time to the last thing changed but certainly there is no rule that says that is necessarily the case. I hear differences day to day with no changes at all to my gear. Is it me? The gear? The weather? The power? All the above? Who knows.
Whatever its fun trying to figure these things out I guess.
OP my ARC sp16 pre-amp uses a 3 amp slo-blo fuse, apparently same as your ARC. I appreciate the offer but hold onto your red fuse. Fuses can blow (that’s what fuses do) and its always good to have a spare fuse. Offer much appreciated though.
I have a few significant enhancement projects already going on currently with my stuff. I’m refoaming some old Boston A40 series II speakers I have sitting around and working on getting digital USB feed from my Iphone 6s and tablet to my mhdt Constantine DAC. If I had more time to dabble I would probably take you up. Thanks again for the nice offer and gesture.
I’ve been thinking, my Hegel H30 uses a 15 amp slo-blo so theoretically if on a 15 amp outlet, the breaker will trip and don’t need a fuse ... just hard wired it. But since it’s on a 20 amp line, MAYBE not a good idea. I’m just speculating and not bypassing the fuse.
I think you’re right to not count on the 20 amp breaker providing protection comparable to a 15 amp fuse, Kng, and I would say the same thing even if the breaker and outlet you are using were rated at 15 amps. A circuit breaker will generally take MUCH longer to trip than a slow blow fuse, at least in situations in which the overload is not extremely great.
I tried the Red fuse in my Magnepan 1.7i's and even burned them in for 200 hours. I couldn't really tell a difference. Do the fuses make a difference in preamps/amps/sources?
These fuses, and aftermarket fuses in general, intrigue me. What is it about them that improves the sound? I am guessing the fact that there there is so much room for improvement means that stock fuses and fuseholders are an impediment in some way to the incoming AC.
In that case, has anyone ever tried to bypass the fuse and wire their gear directly to the AC? I would imagine that configuration (while maybe not being the safest) would be the "holy grail" in the sense that no passive component + connectors can really improve upon a straight unbroken wire.
Or maybe these fuses have some other method of operation (similar to Bybee filters) that enable them to impart their "magic". In the end, I guess one must remain open minded. I use HFT fuses but I cannot really say with authority whether they made any difference. I look forward to trying these out sometime in the near future.
"Or maybe these fuses have some other method of operation (similar to Bybee filters) that enable them to impart their "magic". In the end, I guess one must remain open minded. I use HFT fuses but I cannot really say with authority whether they made any difference. I look forward to trying these out sometime in the near future."
Have you tried reversing the direction of an HFT fuse? You should be able to hear that.
^^^ More and more people are coming out of the word work with praise for these SR fuses. As far as I can tell, there are only a couple posting here who either had a negative experience or a neutral one. Considering that SR has posted this thread on its Facebook page, its gone international right from here. I'd be curious to know how many have been returned to the dealers after the 30 day trial. Not to upgrade from the most recently purchased Red fuses in trade for the Black fuses like I did on my last two, but how many returned them because they didn't like the results. Not many, I bet.
Solman989, yes I have bypassed fuses for years with great results in my digital front end gear. See my post above which talks about using high quality circuit breakers for power switches in amps negating the need for any fuse.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
