Are you trying to say Audio Magic Snow is a little cheaper??? I'll take $2,000 scoop please. |
Lol. Actually Joeyboynj, I like the silver as it is a mix of both, I've yet to try my T3SE on my subwoofer. One question, if you had a single lead Galileo mpc what would you place it on? Powercell, precision AC for powercell, power amp, pre pro. All my other 4 Galileo mpc's are dual lead. Thx
Regards Bacardi |
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MERRY CHRISTMAS to all the Synergistic Research fans and Ted D. and everyone at S.R. Hope everyone had a safe and great holiday and best in THE NEW YEAR.
Best Regards Bacardi:) |
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Anybody have Tranquility Base auditions, reviews or feedback?
Can it be used in conjunction with a Powercell 10 SE?
Can you power it with a Galileo MPC?
Regards Bacardi |
An audiophile friend heard it at CES and thought it was excellent and really made a nice improvement. you place it under components, so you can use it with the powercell. And my guess is you can power it with a galileo mpc if you would like. I am waiting on a unit for personal audition. |
Thx Scotty333, I'm going to audition a Basik under my Oppo 95.
Regards Bacardi |
I am going to try one as well when they become availalbe. I think I am going to try the Basik and see how it does....as you can get 2 basiks for the price of 1 Base - so...not sure if you are better off with 2 basik under 2 pieces of gear or 1 base under one piece of gear...perhaps others will chime in as these become available for demo... |
I'd like to hear more on the transporter too, Ted? Anybody?
Regards Bacardi |
Anybody tested a tranquility base yet? |
I was impressed with the sound at CES but didn't have time to hear a demo. Have you had one yet? |
Scott
What are you going to compare the SR base against? Tom |
Not sure - I have the equipment on a nice rack now. So, I guess I will compare the base on the rack vs. no base and just the rack. I am using sistrum stands to very nice effect. |
Scotty333, I just wonder if they are rack dependent. I have a StillPoints Rack.
I guess they must be doing an electronic field something like that in the PowerCells. |
I need some ideas on my QLS6 & 9. They are almost full with Galileo mpc's and are raised off the carpet by Hifi Pyon cable elevators but the problen I have is the QLS pivots down towards the side the MPC's are plugged into and is not stable. Does anyone mount it on a wall or anything else? I would think on a wall the subwoofer would vibrate the QLS and interfere with the whole idea of vibration control. Any Ideas?? |
Tbg,
It's the 3 generation quantum tunneling that makes it better than the Stillpoint stuff. I got 4 upper end platforms under my gear As I write. |
It's the electronic field similar to the cells supposedly. The Base over the BASIK has additional grounding schemes, again, reportedly...I am sure we will learn more as the units get into the marketplace... |
Hey Glor, ever heard high end SR products? |
Glory, my question is still can they be used on StillPoints racks? Somewhere I heard they were used on some else's racks at CES. I guess what you are saying is that their EMI isolation is more important than vibration isolation. Do you use MIGs under the Tranquility Bases or under the computer? |
Glory, what are "upper end platforms?" Are these Tranquility Bases? What does 3rd gen. quantum tunneling mean? My question remains, do TBs work on any rack? |
Tbg,
All the answers to your questions can be found here:
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/tranquility-base/tranquility-base-2/
For the record we start shipping Tranquility basik next week and Tranquility Base and Base XL the week after. Any reports of first hand use outside of one user who purchased a beta Tranquility Base at CES are false.
Yours in music,
Ted Denney III
Lead Designer, Synergistic Research Inc. |
Sab,
Yes had all the G MPC coming out of the ying yang and a full loom of Apex/PR and AC H. Migs all over and power strip.
Sold it all LoL. |
Glor, you must have a problem with your system if the SR cables did nothing for you. LOL. |
Oh it did sound unnatural/hyped up and plastic sounding. Thank God I never got the 10SE as they go for penny's now that the MK2/3/4/5 and 6 are out with the different QT MK1/2/3 and 7 that are fired into them. |
The 10SE is basically a very good product but the retail price was excessive in light of subsequent events. It looks like SR brought it out with the marketing plan of bringing out a 4-module version a few months down the road for the same price -- the MKII. I agree -- by the time you got to the end of the block and turned the corner they came out with the MKII that made recent purchasers of the 10SE holding an already obsolete product with a resale value of less than 50%.
Ted, will you upgrade my 10SE to the MKII? Mine was actually shipped with the G-07 and twin Enigmas -- so I missed the MKII cut by a hair. Unfortunate and disappointing. When we're talking about a low or mid-priced item this may be something one can grow to accept. But when you are dealing with a $5000 product it is a lot harder to swallow -- especially for those of use who have to work very hard to earn the asking price. Yes, some (not all) SR marketing is at a gallop-too-fast, IMO.
Sr's marketing does not mean that SR products should be casually dismissed. They should not be, IMO. The 10SE should not be dismissed, either, when compared to other high-end power conditioners. In my experience, SR make some of the best high end power cords on the planet -- and they market them at a trot instead of a gallop. Which makes the obsolescence issue less of a problem. For instance, the Tesla SE Hologram D is a game-changer, IMO.
Talking about Quantum Tunneling, if you compare SR MPCs that are Quantum Tunneled versus those that are not QT-ed the difference is not subtle. Quantum Tunneling is not merely a marketing term or a low-value process. On the contrary. But the $500 price tag for each MPC means this is a serious purchase versus the standard MPC. SR products are not for those with a light wallet. But if you have the money and create the right synergy in your system with them you can end up a very happy camper.
I run SR cables in series with cables from other makers. Even though some SR cables are top-of-the-heap I have not found a single SR cable that performs nearly as well on its own as when it is in series with another high end cable, IMO. Of course, you need to experiment to create that very special sound -- and that can be a lengthy and expensive process. |
One aspect of MPCs that I forgot to mention is that they can become too much of a good thing -- in my system. I recently replaced one standard MPC with a Galileo Quantum Tunneled MPC. It killed the sound, rendering it sterile, lacking in the 3-D sound stage it formerly had, and lacking in soul. When I replaced it with the standard MPC everything fell beautifully back into place. It shows you how system dependent all this is. You have to find out what works for you -- never mind what anyone says. |
I remember Steve at GG let me demo his Reflection IC and as I remember it was as good and in fact better than the SR Apex cable with out all the BS MPC dookickies all over the place.
SR knows how to keep a $$$ flow going with SE/MK/Gold/silver/copper/QT MK3 ect... $1200.00 cable now is better than $3600.00 Apex of yesteryear. |
Everyone upgrades. That's not a valid criticism, IMO. It is the pace of the upgrades that is sometimes irksome. I don't think you can argue with quality when it works in your system. If SR didn't work in your system so be it. But for a large number of people -- including me -- SR products work very well when you pick and choose well. They are indisputably one of the very best cable companies out there.
The dohickies are part of what makes their cables work so well. If you don't like a bunch of wires snaking like a spider's web all over the place I can understand that. My wires are a mess and there is no way to change that except to get rid of some wires. The sound is more important than the aesthetics for me. |
Your comments that "SR knows how to keep a $$$ flow going" also applies to other cable makers. All cable makers are in business to make money -- are they not? This is not a valid criticism, IMO.
For me, valid criticisms are related to the quality of the products I purchase and how quickly SR renders them redundant. If the quality is there I am happy. If they render my recent purchase redundant right after I make payment I am not happy -- especially when it is a new product in their line that has not even had time to get to first base in the audio marketplace.
These are the things that matter to me -- not how much money they are making or how many wires are hanging all over the place. |
Reading the forum and I agree with Sabai. I have a full home theater setup of S.R Tesla SE power cords , interconnects , speaker wire and two QLS's. All have a single/dual Galileo MPC. My wires are neatly arrayed in a sequence of direction with wife friendly appeal. I have all my components on floating shelves awaiting some Tranquility Bases for each component with miggs between each.
The only thing I didn't like about upgrading from previous series is that the regular mpc's are obsolete with the Galileo MPC. I couldn't get any dollar or trade value for my old MPC. But someone new can buy one for $125 from a dealer. Whys that? $400 compared to $125 is huge difference. But for the difference in quality I guess it works out.
Regards Bacardi |
Yes, the difference in price for the MPCs is significant. I actually had to swap out a Galileo MPC for a standard one. I have so many Galileos in my system, when I plugged in the last one my system became unlistenable -- with sound stage collapsed and harsh, soulless music emanating from my speakers. Once I swapped back the standard MPC everything was beautiful again. I have no explanation for this dramatic change in system synergy. Probably too much of a good thing. |
As much as I liked the Synergistic stuff, I just couldnÂ’t keep up with the dollars needed for the continuous upgrades.
I got off that ride and went to simpler cables of very high quality conductors. |
I don't find I need to upgrade continuously. I am happy with the sound of my system. I don't let what a manufacturer does push me into upgrading just because he came out with a new line. For instance, I have no intention of buying the new Element cables. If I had a bottomless wallet and if there was something lacking in the sound of my system I might be interested. But such is not my case -- wallet-wise or sound-wise. There has to be an end to it all. Otherwise you are on an endless treadmill where you are never satisfied and always in the upgrade-and-test mode. Never enough -- an audio junkie. |
I have a full blown 5.1 Home theater system and upgrading can be extremely pricy. Definitely most with just a two channel system upgrading can be done with simple pairs of everything but as you have 5.1 or 7.1 then your wallet starts to get lighter. I find it a great hobby as long as I pace(budget) wisely to do the upgrades.
Regards Bacardi |
Seems as if many here are paying for the cost of perpetual R&D and the purchase of all prototyping. Tom |
Tom,
Actually the TESLA Series was launched in late 2006. A five year production run seems like a healthy life span for any cable line, don't you think? What we have done as a company is to branch out into several new product categories. Understandably this can create the impression of constantly changing products when in fact we are simply offering new product solutions like vibration control, room acoustics, AC Duplexes, line conditioning and soon, fuses.
Offering new product solutions in categories SR has traditionally never occupied cannot be counted as replacing existing SR products; we are simply addressing new aspects of system synergy by developing solutions outside of cables while continuing to advance the state-of-the-art in cable design.
Yours in music,
Ted Denney III
Lead Designer, Synergistic Research Inc. |
Ted, I am very happy to hear about the fuses. Are you starting with top quality fuses before using the Tesla coil? |
Within the ustpo//gov/ patents/process/search/ data base what are the published granted U.S patent numbers for your pending audio patent applications of the past several years? I am requesting these government patent numbers for the disclosure they may provide so I and others in the audio community can fully understand the differential of your proposed design and application.. versus those of the prior understood art. Thanks in advance. Tom |
Theaudiotweak, good point. I just went to the US Patent Office site and did a search under Synergistic Research and another search under Ted Denney. Nothing came up. Which does not mean SR products don't work. They work wonderfully in my system. But what's up with the statements of "patent pending" in SR's marketing literature? I'd also like to know. |
Music Interface Technologies can supply you with their patent #'s I'm sure. They have an excellent video that explains their designs and technologies while offering a primer on music theory. No voodoo, just music:O) |
Ted,
I hope you're acknowledging what your ex-clientele are saying. The Tesla line may have been introduced in 2006, but someone who bought a Powercell 10SE Mk II or Apex LE last year may not be too happy to know that they can get the Mk III or Element CTS if they waited a few months. Are they getting a 90% trade in credit for the new product?
More and more of us are waiting on the sidelines for someone else to stick their neck out and "take one for the team". I don't have to spell out what happens when nobody is willing to take the hit buying full retail anymore.
I'm not telling you how to run your business, but take it as some constructive criticism from someone who has a full SR loom but going to look for used deals from now on. |
Patent pending is pretty darn common..and it can take YEARS to get through the patent office...and $10k is CHEAP, as it can take WAYYY more than that to get your patent issued...and then there is the cost of protecting it, updating it, etc..- I know I live in the VC world - hundreds of thousands if not a whole lot more is not uncommon - for a start up - if you are patent heavy and international too, millions is not out of the question...
And lot's of folks DON'T apply because once issued, competition gets a look and can do a work around and then you have to litigate etc. which is very expensive...there is also the notion of technical know how, which can be every bit as important. But my real question is, who cares in this case, in this thread?
ok, so patent pending might not ultimately lift its own weight...so what? lot's of patents pending don't get issued...
Sounds like someone has a bone to pick...or is jealous. If the audio community listens and buys the product, who cares? If you don't like it, don't buy it, doesn't bother me. |
I wonder if setting my Squeezebox Touch and my Hard drive on top of my Powercell would accomplish the same thing as using the tranquility base? |
Hifinut604.
I agree. I just missed the "cut" by days on the full PowerCell 10SE upgrade. I did receive the newer power cord but I feel that, having paid full price, I should have been given the opportunity to get the full upgrade that was just around the corner.
I also agree that this aggressive marketing on the part of Synergistic Research is encouraging many of us to wait a few months for good used deals. You may note that good used deals come up more and more frequently nowadays as a result of the 5 versions of the PowerCell that are now in circulation. It took the span of about 3 years to get 5 versions out. This means it only takes about 7 months before one can expect a new version.
I too believe it makes long-term customers think twice and three times about paying full price. Today you can pick up the next to the best for an attractive price. Soon, what is today's best will also be available at an attractive price. Like you, I have a lot of SR cables in my system. It is not as though I am complaining about their products. I certainly am not. I am very happy with them. I would just like the word "fairness" to enter the equation.
Normally, Ted Denney follows these forums pretty closely. I imagine he is probably following this from the sidelines. I note his conspicuous silence regarding this matter and also the matter of patents pending. These are 2 areas that contain a lot of quicksand for him, IMO. Frankly, I am not totally surprised not to see his comments. It is easy to avoid issues here. Just don't show up. But I must say that I do regret this situation, having spent a lot of money on his products and having supported them quite vocally on Audiogon forums.
Customer loyalty and fairness means more than what SR is doing at the moment, IMO. Loyal SR customers are in a bind because they need to spend "twice the price of the original purchase to receive the full 70 % rebate." So, for instance, if you want to upgrade a $5,000 item, let's say the PowerCell 10SE that you purchased from SR, you need to spend $10,000 on a newer item in order to get a $3,500 (70%) trade-in value applied to your new purchase.
This means that you cannot get the newer version of the PowerCell with a PowerCell trade-in. You will need to pay full price -- another $5,000 -- and try to sell off your old version in a glutted after market or you can wait for the newer version to come up on Audiogon. In effect, SR have us over a barrel with what appears to be a liberal trade-in policy. IMO.
These days, you are lucky to get much more than $2,000 for a PowerCell 10SE on the after market -- if you are lucky enough to sell it at all. That means it will end up costing you $8,000 to $10,000 if you want the newest version of the PowerCell. That's quite a lot of money to pay for a power conditioner what will probably be superseded a few months down the line by a new version. This is one of the reasons people feel that they are on an endless merry-go-round.
I solved the problem this way. I picked up a Bybee Stealth used -- at an amazingly low price -- and put it in series with the PowerCell 10SE that I deem not worth the trouble or the money to trade in. The synergy of the 2 units together is stunning. Then I added a few Bybee Quantum plug-and-play Purifiers throughout my system. The Bybees never go out of "style" -- even the old versions from the 1990s. The sound is awesome. The Bybees can be got for $300 each or a pair.
So, for a fraction of the price of staying on the merry-go-round I have found a solution that I am very happy with. It may not be totally "future proof" -- after all, what is "future-proof" in today's fast-moving high end audio world -- but the sound is so good that I am not tempted to look over my shoulder anymore to buy the latest version of what's coming round the bend. This is as close to "future-proofing" my system as I have been able to achieve.
Further related to "future-proofing" is the way I run cables. I run them in series and in parallel. I have been able to achieve a level of "realness" to the holographic soundscape that I have found impossible to achieve with any single cable from SR or any other high-end maker I buy from. Element Tungsten may get you there but I have not tried it yet.
This special method of running cables in series and in parallel -- yes it takes time and money and a lot of experimenting to see what works and what does not -- further contributes to the "future-proofing" of my system. I don't know anyone else doing this. If you are interested in trying this out get yourself ASI Liveline XLR interconnects and piggyback them together with SR Acoustic Reference from DAC to amplifier. You'll see what I mean before you get to the end of the first track. |
I should note that many fear patents only alert others as to an improvement and are easily worked around. I'm sure that patent attorneys would say that is because their services have not been used, adding of course great additional expense. I know this from my grandfather's, father's, and brother's experiences. |
I believe there's an existing patent for smoke and mirrors. |
Bacardi,
I enjoyed reading "My wires are neatly arrayed in a sequence of direction with wife friendly appeal." My wife comes into my listening room, dances to the music, then goes around back of the speakers, stares at all the wires and exclaims "Look at that mess -- do you need all those wires?" Whereupon I explain, once again, they are the reason she now dances when she comes in the room.
Audiofeil,
You should have been a stand-up comedian with your hilarious one-liners. You might have got a few laughs on the audio circuit -- excuse the pun. In case you did not notice, I don't hear a chorus of laughter when you post. I hear a chorus of silence denoting indifference. |
Sabai,
I'm in your camp. Too many cable companies has done the same by bring out endless newer versions yearly. I can understand that the designers are sitting there thinking of new ideas etc etc but ATEOTD, we are the ones who have to shell out our hard earn cash just to keep up. IMO, not all latest versions etc are better... it may just be different but sadly, we audiophiles are sometimes " sucker" and always want the best or the latest hence they gladly take our money because you know what... if they don't, someone else will.
I do own some of their products including their Powercell 10Se MK-2 which I bought new not so long ago and is sickened to hear of the Mk-3 so soon. I won't be buying/ upgrading any more of their products.
Thanks |
Flashunlock,
The pace of new products coming online is often astonishing. SR's Element series is their latest and I have a feeling they are game-changers. But just watch. Within 12 months there will be Element MK I. Then Element MK II will come along. Then Super Element will come along as as a "breakthrough". Then Super Enigma bullets will hit the headlines. We will all be left in the dust before you have a chance to get to the end of the block. I don't have the money to keep up. I have to prepare myself for the psychological threshold of "the buck stops here".
My system is sounding great with some finishing touches soon to arrive. Once I'm done I won't look over my shoulder as I turn the corner. It is called being satisfied with what you have. There will always be something new and better coming along. But unless you have the resources you have to get off the merry-go-round. Otherwise you will eventually find yourself in trouble. Get your system synergy working for you and let others worry about the newest and latest. |
