Synergistic calls out Audioholics

Thanks OP, I thought I could rattle on. The problem is what was answered?

We all have a choice, and yet there are those that champion THEIR cause through my purchase. I have a simple piece of advice. Mind your own business.

Again and again I read "I just don’t like So and So selling his snake oil".

If you haven’t suffered loss from SR products, who has?

I’ve never read any information or complaints that reflected anything other than SR will return your money.

I read he is a used car salesman or a real estate salesman. What is wrong with a used car or real estate salesman?

What do you call a person that BUYS a used car or a new or used house?.

I suppose the next logical step in the eyes of our beloved champions is to thank them for all there hard work.. The problem I’m having is, I don’t need or want their help.. NOW if they could figure that out, we would be solid as a rock..

prof... Keep it simple, you’re not a Master M.. Even Mozart had his Salieri.
You argue well, in your own world.. Seems pretty big to.. "Planet Prof"

George did you trick your customer and tell him you changed the fuse, BUT didn't? NO George or the others haven't even tried SR fuses, cables or any other product, and if he had.. guess what.. He could have gotten his money back..

I read one of the AGoners say he "snuck around and swapped this or swapped that to PROVE" how people were so gullible. THAT NEVER happened, EVER. NO one would let anyone near their gear for that.. NO ONE, pure and simple a BIG FAT LIE. BTW that guy quit posting, too.

Onward with the American dream Mr. SR, I wish you and yours well and GREATER fortunes...

Me I’m a Rolls kind of guy, chauffeur to the airport.... :-)

Tap Tap Samba.. Positions please!!

Regards

@georgehifi

Understood.

You have been closed minded, lacking of creativity/imagination, willingness to step outside of your teeny tiny little world for a very long time.

I suspect this shows that you are, as well as all of the above, incapable of personal growth or expanding your experience of the world.

Good to know. And I’m so happy that not all are as you. We would not be able to use computers and communicate via the internet, Fly in airplanes, travel to the moon, create vaccines etc...

Why would Ted ever think to send douglas_schroeder anything, he is a nobody. Ted has every right to go after no-ears gene. Gene caters to the ANA and the audiophools on a budget crowd which are all audiophools with either no ears, no revealing audio system, or no budget, or probably all 3 of these. Ted’s new videos put everything on the line for Gene where if this clown doesn’t respond, he’s name is toast, more than it is in the audio world now. 

Ok,ready for my 1 1/2 cents? ( That’s all I can spare)  It gets a little exhausting hearing 24/7 what I need to think,how I need to think, how I should spend my money,how I shouldn’t spend my money....... Every day,everywhere,people push their opinions like they are FACT. Your opinion may be your fact,but not everyone’s. 
     
    I’m a big boy,and I am quite able to make my own decisions. Now, I do not own any SR products. That is irrelevant. Should I choose to,that is my decision,and no one else’s. You don’t think those,or any other products don’t work, cool. Don’t buy them. It’s really quite simple. A wise gentleman once gave me this advice, “ If you don’t f*** me or feed me,you don’t get a say in what I do.”  

  For those that really think they are trying to save the world on an audio forum by telling folks how they should spend their cash, PLEASE, turn your efforts elsewhere. For example, go help homeless,hungry,and abused children.  I think fuses,cables,and other tweaks are a little lower on the importance scale. 

Looks like video has been pulled "due to copyright claim by Audioholics"
Obviously Gene did not like it.

Gene contacted Synergistic Research’s dealers and distributors making claims about Ted and his products. Thats when he stepped over the line and is why he is being sued. It’s called Intentional Interference with a Business Relationship.

And the starting answer is:  get the video taken down.

If you go to the link right now, you get this message:

Video unavailable 
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Audioholics.

Steve

The original video was deleted. Was it inciting violence?

sbayne397 posts04-16-2021 10:09amGene contacted Synergistic Research’s dealers and distributors making claims about Ted and his products. Thats when he stepped over the line and is why he is being sued. It’s called Intentional Interference with a Business Relationship.

It must be obvious that this is not as simple as stating, "Intentional Interference ....".   For one, there likely will be a requirement to prove that the allegations are false. Otherwise every time some group tried to influence customers away from company for their business practices, they would be guilty of this, and sued. You will find it pretty hard to sue for simply communicating true information. So the question would come up, was what was communicated to these companies factual or not.


On the other hand, by Ted posting publicly, insinuating that his target was going to illegally use the GoFundMe funds, he would also be open for legal recourse.

To me, neither acted very professionally in this matter.

dletch2 - The whole basis is that Gene’s actions were intentionally done to influence SR’s business relationships. It’s a different area of the law from a libel claim. It doesn't focus on the "truth" of the matter but the motive behind the actions. 

I read one of the AGoners say he "snuck around and swapped this or swapped that to PROVE" how people were so gullible. THAT NEVER happened, EVER. NO one would let anyone near their gear for that.. NO ONE, pure and simple a BIG FAT LIE. BTW that guy quit posting, too.

No, but in my limited experience, he did post a video with recordings where he claimed a clear "audible" difference with HFTs and without.

Guess where he placed one of the HFTs?  Right next to the microphone. Not a foot away, I mean right next to it. Perhaps that was ignorance, but obviously that is going to impact what the microphone records. Someone analyzed it and showed a clear level difference from it.

Been to a demo once, and definite coaching on hearing changes, but I won't fault him, as that is common at audio shows, and county fair product sales.

sbayne398 posts04-16-2021 12:09pmdletch2 - The whole basis is that Gene's actions were intentionally done to influence SR's business relationships. It's a different area of the law from a libel claim.

Which again, is just like every time an activist group contacts companies and tries to get them to pull advertising or otherwise stop their business relationship with another entity. How often do you see those activist groups getting sued? The answer is never, except when they use false claims.


Tell me one company that does not attempt to influence their customers relationships with their competitors?  Heck, if it was as simple as that, virtual all competitive advertising would be banned. Remember the old Apple/Microsoft ads?   However, there is a fine line, and whether it was crossed, would be for the courts. We are not going to resolve that here. Personally, I see actions on both their parts that could get them into legal trouble. That is why it is always best to behave as a professional.

dletch2 - When Gene contacted SR’s dealers and distributors directly that is when it became actionable. Nothing to do with advertising, being an "activist" or arguing on chat boards.

This reminds me of the time Hasbro called out Mattel to measure their toys, except that was big league, this one very minor.

Right, this is pretty minor as far as the dollar amounts involved. Intentional interference claims are fairly common amongst larger corporations wherein hundreds of millions of dollars are at issue. 

sbayne400 posts04-16-2021 12:21pmdletch2 - When Gene contacted SR’s dealers and distributors directly that is when it became actionable. Nothing to do with advertising, being an "activist" or arguing on chat boards.

Activist groups directly contact companies every single day to influence them away from doing business with other companies. It happens all the time. They don't get sued because they are communicating factual information. 

dletch2 - Legally, you are not understanding what has occurred. Trying to dissuade a CONSUMER from buying a product is much different legally from contacting a companies’ DEALERS AND DISTRIBUTORS with the INTENT of inflicting economic damage on that company. A similar claim is Intentional Interference with a Business Contract. If Gene has competent legal counsel I'm sure he will find out the difference soon.

sbayne400 posts04-16-2021 12:29pmRight, this is pretty minor as far as the dollar amounts involved. Intentional interference claims are fairly common amongst larger corporations wherein hundreds of millions of dollars are at issue.

These are often contractual interference and when really big, end up as anti-trust.  Things like coerced exclusivity, interfering in supply chains, etc.  Business interference usually comes from a communicated falsehood, i.e. spreading lies about a competitor.  The aspect of privilege could come into play. I.e. was it reasonable to contact these people?  Typically that is a matter of if you are a competitor, you have leeway to divert business your way, but within limits.  We aren't going to solve this here.

Of course the result of the challenge is now two busy threads here including one started by Mr. Denney of SR.

They say any publicity is good publicity as long as you can keep on denying the charges.

There is that karma thing though, but I predict SR will see more sales and more profit now as a result of free publicity here and there will be nothing more in regards to objective measurements provided so no additional costs or overhead incurred. Profits!!!! Smart!

G-d bless free internet sites.

dletch2 - "is it reasonable to contact these people?" or "trying to divert business your way" is not the legal standard or issue here. This is about INTENT to interfere with a business relationship/contract. SR has business relationships/contracts with its dealers and distributors.  

sbayne401 posts04-16-2021 12:50pmdletch2 - Legally, you are not understanding what has occurred. Trying to dissuade a CONSUMER from buying a product is much different legally from contacting a companies’ DEALERS AND DISTRIBUTORS with the INTENT of inflicting economic damage on that company. A similar claim is Intentional Interference with a Business Contract. If Gene has competent legal counsel I'm sure he will find out the difference soon.

No, I am understanding, but you are talking about influencing consumers. That is not what these advocacy groups do. They target major corporations to influence them to end their business relationships with other corporations. I.e. like contacting companies to stop advertising with Fox News for example.


As well, he would have to be able to show damages. He has shot himself in the foot on that one, because he has said repeatedly that all the naysayers don't hurt him one bit, and has put that in writing on social media. Going to be hard to walk that back.


Ted will also not be able to claim his personal Facebook account is independent of his company because of his position and the clear tying of his personal account to his company.  It appears that Ted may have initiated this war as well, which could play into a legal ruling.

sbayne402 posts04-16-2021 1:32pm

dletch2 - "is it reasonable to contact these people?" or "trying to divert business your way" is not the legal standard or issue here. This is about INTENT to interfere with a business relationship/contract. SR has business relationships/contracts with its dealers and distributors. 

I am going to guess you are not a lawyer?

There are activist groups, and then there are activist groups. To collectively join and agree to refuse to buy a certain product is one thing.
It's in the realm of a boycott.

To actively go beyond those bounds by harassing, intimidating, showing up in a companies lobby, or at the door of a medical provider, or storming the capitol of a state or country, is not being an activist group.

I do believe the law does not differentiate between physically being at one's doorstep and using other nefarious means to harm a business. 

All the best,
Nonoise

dletch2 - You guess wrong on me not being a lawyer. Going back to our discussion: Intentional torts have different damages than say a tort based on negligence. I’m sure Ted has claimed injunctive relief and punitive damages. It was really foolish for Gene to contact dealers and distributors that Ted is in contract with - like I said an hour ago that's when Gene stepped over the line.

You are talking about consumer advocacy. I am talking about groups that target one company to influence them to end their business relationship with another company. It happens all the time. We read about it almost daily.  In those cases, the loss of business is real and very easily measured, yet legal ramifications are rare.

I dont know, In my system cables dont make much of a difference. last 20 years with 10k usd spent in cables … my experience has been no to some sound difference at most. In my very early years I saw a big change going from 18/22 gauge to 12/10 gauge. My current two channel system is paradigm signature s8 v1 + parasound jc monoblocks + parasound jc2. I use audioquest type 9, and kimber 12vs (cable length is Left 15 feet, Right 8 feet) and the sound difference is extremely minimal, not a game changer in anyway. I see more value in room treatment, speaker positioning to get better sound than investing in cables. I see many pictures in audio forms, and here where people place tower speakers 6 inches from the back wall, 10 inches from the side walls, and 5 feet apart...and expect them to sound good...I dont understand it. At the end of the day everyone experiences sound differently, so I can only speak for myself and my system. My second system is a 2.1 setup composed of kef ls50 meta, parasound hint 2.1, M&K v12 subwoofer, with bluejeans 10 gauge cables - and that system sounds phenomenal - not the most high-end system but pretty good for price, and can be considered endgame for many people. 

First off, if you can’t hear differences in cables you have either a hearing problem or a resolution issue.  Also, Fun fact...dug out some old cables I have on hand just to check my ears.  They all sound different...sorry Audioholics 😔  Reminded me why I love MIT products...just so much more realistic sounding on every level!  My REV MIT loom delivers better tone, articulation, clarity, dynamics, bass definition and extended airy highs.  Everything sounds muffled and constricted comparatively!

Hopefully Gene won't get sucked in by that Snake Oil salesman and the overpriced nonsense that he sells 

Is there a cure for minions?

I will repeat something i wrote already but which is very important to understand....

That will explain why i am not very interested by the products of one of the side nor by the pseudo debunking claim of the other side...

For their personal feud i am not interested by inquiring i am not a judge...




There are 2 falsehoods i see percolating in the audio industry...

---One is a sin by OMISSION by the electronic design marketing companies when they suggest: buy our own electronic design and your audiophile experience is assured and warrented...

This is half truth at best nevermind the real S.Q. value of the product because audiophile experience is ALSO mostly tributary of the controls of many psycho acoustical factors outside the scope of the electronic design of any piece of electronic gear speakers included....

---The other sin is by FALSIFICATION of science by abuse of some aspect of technology... Some tried to convince people that audiophile experience is reducible ONCE AND FOR ALL to the measures of some known chosen electrical parameters... This is completely false because audiophile experience is generally tributary of many psychoacoustical factors outside of the scope of these selected chosen parameters...The EARS are a measuring apparatus and the most important one, negating this is not only blindness but pure stupidity and plain ignorance...



Then i dont need Gene nor Ted...

😁😊

By the way i know first hand that mechanical acoustic controls exceed anything in upgrading power.... We listen to speakers/room at last...And i can replicate the audible effects of many costly "tweaks" anyway....

For those hypnotized by pricing, i never listen to anything that moves me enough to trash my 500 bucks system correctly embedded.... Than forget price, think about mechanical, electrical ands especially acoustical embeddings... Trust yourself....

If you want to know if your room is good, listen to The Three penny opera 1958 by Kurt Weill with Lotte Lenya and if you could listen the orchestra playing in front of you, seating in front of your speakers, but the singers voices coming from your back wall where there is no speakers, your room is under acoustic controls....If not, buying a cable AT ANY PRICE will not give you this nor buying most tweaks or a costly dac or amplifier.... Acoustic is key....

I will not speak about voice timbre or instrumental timbre which sound unnatural even in very costly systems or very tweaked one i listen to...

Forget price think acoustic....

@mikado430


 Well, it’s a bit late for that. Gene is kind of put himself in a bad place. Read through the recent posts above. If has left the building, when and how are what remain

One of slimiest snake oil salesmen in the biz. 

Regarding cables, I have been using the same Kimber cables for years. Never tried to change them out with anything better or worse. The set up sounds quite good to my ears, I’m not a “chaser” of these things.  But I did have something interesting happen recently. While making changes to the components in a crossover I’m working on, I had to swap out the hook up wires as I had to move the crossover outside of the enclosure so I could more easily make changes to the components. I had run out of the 16ga I was using and had to switch to some very questionable 20ga wire. 
All of a sudden, Bill Charlap’s piano was distorting like crazy around the 1K mark. 
Wires. That was the cause. 

Also, Fun fact...dug out some old cables I have on hand just to check my ears. They all sound different...sorry Audioholics 😔 Reminded me why I love MIT products...just so much more realistic sounding on every level! My REV MIT loom delivers better tone, articulation, clarity, dynamics, bass definition and extended airy highs.

I do like to try wires with radically different designs that are clear and apparent as opposed to those with slightly different twists on the same old same old.

THose tend to make the biggest differences that actually might matter to me.

WHich is better/best? How much are they worth? No clue. THey are just different enough to sound different....which is better is still a totally subjectively assessment and what works best will vary case by case/system by system.

MIT is one I’ve tried and use. These tend to deliver a less strident top end than most. Probably due to the network box they use which is clearly a thing. The highs are rolled off a bit. I use them for that reason if/when needed.

The other is DNM Reson, my personal favorites and go-to IC. Not shielded but I have addressed that separately when needed. I find the solid wire minimalist design in their ICs deliver a more coherent sound to my ears than any others I have tried. Have not tried their speaker wires. Not sure if such thin gauge wire is really a good idea there, but hey I’m sure some go for it and are happy. Gotta be a lot of profit in such an effective minimalist design like DNM Reson, but not outrageously priced, especially used...very affordable for many, so not a big deal.

The difference between DNM and MIT is about as night and day as it gets I suspect. I can easily tell which is in use at least on my main more resolving setup.

SO just to summarize, I know wires CAN sound different, though not always, maybe even in most cases. The devil is in the details. Also I am not a SR fan. Too expensive, some bad karma, little concrete to back up big claims, and just no reason to deal with all that.

@helomech.

Have you tried any of the products? Do you have first hand experience with them? Were you ripped off by the company?

perkri, do even know how all this crap got started and when ?

One other thing .......... if and I repeat 'if' it's true that Mr Denny posted up pictures of Gene's 13 year old daughter on FB then Gene has more than enough reason(as any father would) to be outraged with Teddy.

Wires matter and sound different...

But wires are NOTHING in upgrading power compared to acoustic controls...Myself i bought basic good wires and forget them after that....

I dont understand the obsession about cables... Especially costly one...

3 threads on this nonesense now, two by Mr. Denny, the SR guy?

The price for publicity (free) is right here I suppose. Plus I doubt anyone much cares elsewhere.

Bad Karma does not pay. I’d give it a rest but carry on if one must.

mahgister, the obsession is simple, it's an easy way to get audiofools to spend silly amounts of money !

@mikado463.

Even stating something of that nature with an “if” in front of it is beyond irresponsible if you do not have irrefutable proof...

But, I guess you are trying to skew the court of public opinion.

@mahgisterI think you answered your own question in the same post.

perkri, I having nothing to do with FB, just a relay of what I was told, thus the 'if'. Regardless there 's more to this that you know as well and if you like being fed the baloney from a company that peddles 50 cent fuses for 159 bucks, have at it kid !

@mahgisterI think you answered your own question in the same post.

I Apologize.... 🧐

Sometimes i speak to myself more than i think....

I have tried many many many cables.  A lot of them are not demonstrably better than another.  Do they sound different?  Yes.  I would live with whatever sounded best to my ears.  It just so happens that I have landed with MIT....not the MIT cables most people reference when they speak of comparisons, but recent technology versions.  In my case, special edition cables from Joe Abrams at Equus Audio.  Once heard in a good system, you cannot un hear what they do...they allow the music to flow unhindered and with realistic presence, soundstaging and timbre!  No roll offs, no dynamic constraints and no overemphasis of any particular frequencies.  It’s not subtle...if you compare them to other cables it’s more of a Holy Crap moment then a beard scratcher 👂

@makido463. 

Got it. You’re just spreading unsubstantiated rumors. Very honorable of you. 
Kind of like how the election in the states went the other way right? So much more to
it, but no actual facts. 

@makido460.

I’m wondering if you have heard any of SRs products? 

So here is a question. I have a degree in physics and applied mathematics, and I think I can make really good sounding /looking cables, how do I go about pricing my cables? It seems that the pricing is all over the place, and I am not really sure why some cables are much much more expensive than others besides the material quality. The cost seems to be what the manufacturer thinks they can get away with, as no R&D data is published. So how do you go about pricing ?
Thanks

@georgehifi. 


Looks like Ted is on AGon. You have been daring him to come here. Your time to shine, now is your chance to confront directly. Making my popcorn now...

Suspect it will have to be enjoyed during my Friday night movie as I doubt you will rise to the occasion 

Curious how many newbies this thread is producing...