Suggestions on Integrated Amp./Seperates to Run my Klipschorns
Art Audio gear is spectacular with Klipsch speakers. My personal taste runs to the PX25 over the 300B but we would want to talk about exactly what you like in terms of sound profile as you could also consider an EL34 Push-Pull. Each is a little different and will give you a different sound profile. You may want a DAC depending on exactly what streamer you go with. A very interesting choice would be the Chord Hugo 2 with a 2Go streamer. Most of these low powered amps are not fully balanced and you won't get the full benefit of something like a Lumin D2 with them. The Chord is an amazing DAC and the 2Go streamer interfaces with Tidal and you can easily add your own music library to the device. If you have any interest in this idea, PM me and we can talk about a bundle. |
@atmasphere ... all Klipschorns are 'corner horns.' My TAD2001 modified Klipschorns have ALK 120 db/octive crossovers, a magician combination. A few years ago, I visited the Klipsch factory and in their demo room they were using a Cayin integrated amp... really a nice combo. |
This Quicksilver integrated just might fit the bill!! http://quicksilveraudio.com/products/integrated-amplifier/ |
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa32c4-dennis-had-inspire-sweet-807-tube
This Dennis Had SET looks sweet deal. |
Dennis Had's most recent power amps come with a level control, although you likely can order one without it. Single ended pentode (or triode) all day, and a bargain...mine drives a pair of Heresy IIIs with plenty of headroom,. and these amps (when he decides to make 'em...ebay is his connection to consumers) are a hand wired bargain and sound astonishingly good. |
I have a pair of 1978 K-horns run through a tube Conrad-Johnson PV2ar pre and had a CJ MV75 tube amp which, as mentioned on other posts, is a great match. I'm presently happy with a modified 100Wx2 Hafler DH-200 amp. To addend a previous comment, a factory-spec kit is available to rebuild the K-horn crossover and, while you're at it, think about replacing ALL the Klipsch lamp-cord wiring they came with from the factory. You'll have to remove a plywood bass enclosure access cover and carefully solder the internal, replacement woofer wire, but it's worth it for the sound improvement. This is the first time I've heard of the Dynamat mod but will investigate. Any other recommendations? |
As others have pointed out you don’t need a lot of power but you do want clean power. The design of the speaker is such that many solid state amps will sound brighter and harsher than normal (this is part of why horns got a bad name; nothing to do with horns in general so much as its just a poor match) due to the impedance curve and the design of the crossover. Also as others have pointed out its that first watt where you are likely to do the most listening, so you really want to make that watt a good one. But the power after that should be clean too (this is where SETs fall apart) because with any good system, even though it might *be* loud, you don’t want it to **sound** loud. If anything, that single quality is what sets a great system apart from the rest. So the amplifier power should remain clean as you run up the volume. There’s a funny thing about how we hear and amplifier power in general. For each 3dB increase in power, which is doubling the amplifier power, the increase in volume isn’t that much. A 10dB increase in power is perceived as ’twice as loud’ and that requires a **10-fold** increase in amplifier power. The result is that when you run up the volume you can wind up using a bit of amplifier power (even on an efficient loudspeaker), and in practical terms this means that SETs will not be able to show the system off, since you really don’t want to run them past about 20-25% of full power, otherwise distortion will cause them to sound loud. I know this seems tricky, but the ear has several rules that are the same with everyone- it interprets distortion as tonality, and it uses the higher ordered harmonics to sense sound pressure. In SETs above that 20-25% power level, distortion in the form of higher ordered harmonics shows up (initially on transients) and so causes the system to sound loud- not because it is, but because of the way the distortion interacts with the ear. Which Klipschorn do you have? Is it the corner horn version? How big is your room? This will say a lot about how much amplifier power you need. |
As many have said you only need a few watts to bring the Khorns to life. I have Klipsch Belles which I purchased 36 years ago because I didn't have suitable corners. The Belles are in the same family with the Khorns and Lascalas. Initially I ran them from the 25 wpc headphone amp in my Mac C33 preamp until I purchased a set of Bryston 2Bs set up as monoblocks in the late 80s. Bryston 4B in the 90s with 2Bs on Heresys in a 5.1. Today I'm back to 2 channel (2.1) and still have the C33 (solid state) but also have a Primaluna Dialogue tube preamp that I can plug and play when I want to experiment. Power comes from either a Cary SLA70 Sig (35 wpc with EL34s) or a First Watt SIT-3. With the C33 I can adjust output at different frequencies to compensate for the room, speaker placement and diff types of music to get proper balance and bass response. With the Primaluna (no tone controls) I prefer to enhance bass with a powered SVS preamp especially at low listening levels. I did upgrade the tweeter and crossover last year with help from Bob Crites. From time to time I also replace the Belles with Hersey IIs paired with the sub. All the above combinations sound great in my opinion. Good luck and have fun with your selection process. |
Pass Labs INT-25 integrated amplifier or any Pass Labs integrated. Im running Klipsch LaScallas with Pass Labs XP30 line stage and older Pass Labs Pure Class A Monoblocks. I have had Klipsch speakers since 1974 when as a kid I bought my first pair of Heresy. Still got them and the boxes they came in. If I had a corner I would have K-horns. I second Lordrootman. Get in touch with Bob Crites. He is a genius with crossover mods for K Horns.They are good--but he can make them better. I did tubes for years. Got over it. If you gotta have tubes look at McIntosh |
For what it's worth, in my second system I have a pair of upgraded Klipsch Forte II. I have tried them in my first system which includes Primaluna Dialogue separates ( HP Amplifier ) vs my Parasound Halo separates in second system. They sound good on both systems but the sweetness and the sound stage goes to the Primaluna. John |
https://www.facebook.com/groups/KlipschOwners/?ref=share https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageKlipschFans/?ref=share Join this groups on Facebook that’s klipsch owners you’re going to see a lot of people with The same speakers and great recommendations to get the best out if me myself I’m using klipsch CF4 and KLF 30 with some mods from Bob Crites |
Three times I’ve had sit downs with corner horns. All three times were Mac, MC30, 60 and MC240. It was a toss up for me, between the 30 and the 240.. My oh My.. they can light up a room. Something about a great 6L6 valve. Tones the highs down a bit, but the BASS is just the way it should be..EL34 valves have great midbass all the way to the top. Then BRIGHT comes to mind.... I choose the 6L6 for that reason, with THAT horn. The MC240s could drive them over 100 db clear as a bell, or horn in this case.. Great speakers...I love great sounding horns....I gotta build a set..... Vintage Klipsch is like vintage Mac, just keeps going UP... A note: I heard the old LaScala that were all tricked out with Decware M60s I think, They were 60 watt monoblocks. He used a Decware preamp too. I was VERY impressed with that set up. Visual works of art, just amazing.... BASS, MIDS, HIGHS.... perfect... The speaker ICs were solid core, too. The guy made it a point to say that...SC wire, some state of the art IC. Regards |
I owned 1976 K Horns and used them with a Mac 2105 and a vintage Fisher tube pre, and it was great. They didn't need that power for sure but it didn't hurt. If I had them now, I would surely try a 8 watt 300b of good quality, or even a 300b push pull with double that power. Also agree with roberjerman that a good 2A3 integrated or power amp would be a great choice. |
If your Khorns are stock, I would recommend updating / replacing the crossovers. I also recommend, damping the mid horns and tweeters, using a product such as Dynamat. There are youtube videos discussing and showing how this is done. The metal bracket used to add the rear support of the mid horn, is also very resonant, when the speaker is playing. They have great potential, and most folks on the "Gon, have never heard, a modified and updated pair, which is, ime, necessary, to take them from good, to great, and, they are. I use solid state with my Lascalas, which is better for me, than tubes. A Class A amp would be my choice, and, you do not need a preamp ( the additional gain ), unless, you do want to add some color ( Dac to amp would need to match, as far as driving voltage is concerned ). I have been listening / dealing / tweaking, with Klipsch Heritage, for many years. Join the Klipsch Forum, on the Klipsch site, as people there will be friendlier and more welcoming, as well as, more capable to helping you on your Klipsch journey. Enjoy ! |
herdegen OP I had a pair of the old ones, 20 years ago None of those amps power is needed, you can almost get ear spitting levels by rubbing to sticks together to power Klipschorns. Klipschorns are in your face speakers with the wrong amp, suggest a triode push pull tube amp with tight bass and a laid back top end. Quicksilver 6C33C amps come to mind. https://ucarecdn.audiogon.com/5488a1d9-a567-4a76-ac4b-c8da8b8122d6/-/autorotate/yes/ Or maybe even better still a Class-A solid state like Pass Labs Class-A XA30.5 or XA30.8 https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/pass_labs_xa305_power_amplifier/index.html https://www.passlabs.com/products/xa30.8/ Cheers George |
Klipschorns are the only speaker, I can recommend an amp of 150W or less to drive. So bright, so searing to my ears. Almost painful. Find a warm amp and preamp to tone down that horn tweeter. she is so brutal to me. I heard on a pair of Adcom mono blocs, it was horrible. A warm preamp and amp I would look for. just my opinion. |
Thanks everybody for the feedback. I am just getting back into the 2 Channel arena and wanted to do this right the first time. If I were to go the Integrated Amp. route, is there an Integrated Amp. that stands above all others for 2 Channel listening? Not to muddy the waters but is a DAC recommended for a high end set up? I don't want to throw crazy money at diminishing returns but want to do this right the first time while I have the opportunity. Thanks everybody. |
+1 on Decware’s SE84UFO ($995). You do not need a preamp to monoblock. You will need to feed the left channel into BOTH inputs on the amp. Then you jumper the left positive speaker output to the to the right negative speaker output. Attach your speaker to the left negative and right positive outputs. Do the same thing with the right channel. This is from the owners manual for doing a series connection which is recommended for best results. Decware does offer a couple of upgrades. One is a capacitor upgrade that "offers a more organic presentation". The other is a capacitor bypass mod that gives it more transient speed. If you have to pick one go for the bypass mod. They also offer the SE34I.5. Six watts of set power using EL34 power tubes and variants. It can have up to 4 inputs, a headphone jack, single or dual volume controls, upgraded capacitors and a capacitor bypass upgrade. Stepped attenuators are also an option. $1495 stock. $1915 with upgraded caps and bypass mod. $120 to add a quarter inch headphone jack. Cheaper than buying two SE84UFO amps to get six watts and you can pick out more options. You get 12 watts if you monoblock. I am using a 3 watt EL84 set amp with my Decware Imperials. Just added a Schiit Jotunheim with a phono card to be used as a preamp. |
Why in the world are you looking at 200 watt amps for these? Here’s what you do. Buy a Chord DAVE. The output from the RCA jacks is more than enough to drive the Khorns to rocking levels. You get a world class DAC - preamp - and in this case power amp all in one neat little package. Trust me. That’s how I use my Avantgardes and never been happier. See my system.. Got the idea here https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/reality-quest-going-to-extremes-with-the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-1-of-5-r907/ |
You don't need a lot of amp for Klischorns. In fact, you don't want a lot of amp for these speakers. The tube types for SET amps that verdantaudio listed above will work great. I'll throw a few other suggestions at you: - decware: some of the best sound I ever heard from a Khorn was using a 2W decware UFO amp.The best $995 you will ever spend on audio. If you don't think 2W is enough (it is) then buy two and use them as monoblocks. May not need a preamp for stereo, will need a preamp for monoblocks. - Leben: either a new CS-300F or find a used CS-300. Integrated amps, approx. 12Wpc. Fantastic sound and build quality. - Shindo: The little Apetite 6V6 integrated amp sounds very sweet and lovely. 12Wpc. - McIntosh MC30: If you are going to run macs with Khorns these are the amps you want to use, IMO. Mono only (so you will need two) very vintage and a little pricey but a very lovely warm, wet "mac" sound. - Atma Sphere S-30: The best sound I have ever heard from a Khorn was paired with this exceptional OTL integrated amp. 30Wpc, which is probably more than you really need but it's great from the first watt. OTL amps sound different than amps with output transformers. Ask Mr. Atma Sphere himself - he's always monitoring Audiogon. Last note: honestly, almost any tube amp will work with Klipschorns, some better than others. Tube type affects sound and is a matter of choice. I enjoy the sound of EL84 tubes with Klipsch Heritage speakers because it's a little more punchy. But this can bite you at very loud listening levels. Conversely, some guys love big triodes (300B, 2A3, 45) with their Khorns. This can sound very good but, generalizing, I find the sound a bit on the soft and gentle side. Again, IMO. I find that the EL34 tube family, wired for single-ended operation, makes a great compromise. You can get near SET-like sound but with greater bandwidth and less of a midrange bump many triodes produce (and a lot of SET affectionados enjoy). |
On that list...the PrimaLuna. I can't imagine running klipschorns with the SS gear listed as I would expect it to be very bright. You need 3w of power to drive those speakers to deafening levels. They have 105dB SPL. I would recommend a SET. Either 300B, PX25, PX4 or 2A3. My hunch is the stuff that I import (Art Audio) is a bit above your budget (my least expensive option is $12,500 as an integrated) but other SETs or a used SET would be a wonderful option. An alternate would be First Watt with a Pass labs preamp if you want SS. First Watt J2 would be brilliant. Maybe a used X-1? |
