What were the results of the shootout?
Suggest your most desired MSRP $1,500-$3,000 Stand Mount for a Shootout.
We are gathering a list of eight speakers to compare in two live events in
June 2022. Post covid we hope!
Trying to gather models which are not readily available for audition.
Please submit your One suggestion here.
I will begin with my One -KLH Model 5. MRSP $2,000.
Thanks for the help!
130 responses Add your response
I know that I’m probably advertising the OGY speakers unintentionally. I won’t mention them in this thread anymore. The reason I’m not a fan about Focal is because they are a huge international brand like B&W. So you don’t get that exclusivity you typically see from smaller boutique manufacturers. Moreover, the branding of Focal products is also reflected in the price. I have no doubt that medium/high end Focal models are built in France. There are factory tours on the web. I’m just hesitant about lower-end Focal models. To further my point, high-end Focal speakers seem to be using unique flax composite drivers. Low-end Focal speakers seem to be using paper cones. I’m just speculating that the paper cones are built overseas. I could be wrong. But I digress. Moreover, France is a Hi-Fi paradise. Hundreds of tiny manufacturers are building innovative and unique products which get no attention from the English-speaking world. It’s just silly that brands like Tekton and OJAS are more well-known than Apertura and Davis Acoustics. America is the centre of the universe, so it’s understandable. Anyways, Focal doesn’t feel as exotic or French to me because of its big brand status. Even luxury cars are equipped with Focal. Call me a hipster, I don’t care. At the same time people want to see popular products in shootouts, for comparison sake. So Focal, Buchardt, Sonus Faber, KEF, B&W are your usual suspects. In retrospect, including an obscure boutique brand which sells a few dozen speakers every year in a shootout is futile. |
@prighello for whatever reason this @kokakolia is not a Focal fan (neither am I but I will not speak ill of them) and wants to cast dispersions that they are made in China. I am guessing he has some affiliation with this OGY line, if not it is an affliction. |
@kokakolia, I’m going to leave this here for you:
Kevin is a major US Focal dealer. The speaker he is speaking about was the entry level a couple of years ago before being replaced with the Chora line. He literally says it’s made in France and he visited the factory. Are you implying they make the drivers in France and then send them to China to be assembled into a finished speaker? I suppose that’s possible but I’d need proof to believe it as I fail to see how that could save them much money. Anyway, it doesn’t much matter to me which of us has the right of it in the end :) I do agree that companies should be transparent about origin though. Some folks do care. |
@kokakolia some companies in China do treat their workers well. I know this first hand. Anyway not to worried about Focal and their low end stuff. I only own QLN and Sonner. Way above these price points. I do not care for the Focal sound and Sf was short lived in my house also. Sf sound was not my thing, not a good match for my gear at the time. Have a great day.
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@dayglow @juanmanuelfangioii Focal, like Davis Acoustics and Triangle only build their high-end speakers in France. The low end speakers are built in China. I don't have specific sources, but I watched a bunch of interviews with Davis Acoustics. Davis is definetely one of the most transparent companies. They basically implied that entry-level speakers are built to a price and have to be outsourced to China. I'm fairly certain that the Davis Acoustics Courbet 3 is built in France. Focal is much less transparent. Moreover, French companies are known to lie about the "Made in France" label. American companies as well and so on... It's evident that China has some of the highest standards for manufacturing, even higher than the USA for specific things like electronics and tools. But Chinese workers have worse working conditions (I would argue that American workers have pretty abysmal working conditions as demonstrated by the Frito-Lay strike but American salaries are higher so all is justified). |
@willg1985 +1 Elac Vela BS403 |
"-1 Comparing an I/Phone with audio components is ludicrous!" @dayglow Why? |
@kokakolia +1 Like your swagger! Yes Sonus Faber and Focal claim all products are manufactured in Italy or France but what is the % of Chinese parts on the entry level speakers? @prighello -1 Comparing an I/Phone with audio components is ludicrous! |
@kokakolia You could not be more wrong about SF and Focal. SF did make some of their HT stuff in China at one point and abandoned that practice some time ago. Focal has always been made in France. Stick to the facts.
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@kokakolia, Sonus Faber is made in Italy, Focals are made in France; they make all their own drivers and some for other manufacturers (like Wilson). Tekton Design, sources drivers from all over but many of their woofers are made in the USA by Eminence. I believe SF is making all their drivers now too after a failed experiment with China on the Venere line. I know this because I have owned/own speakers from all of these brands. Regardless, country of origin shouldn’t matter from a sonic persepctive. Supply chains are global and parts or materials are sourced from all over the world. Who "makes" your smartphone? It’s about design and QC, that’s what matters. For myself, origin is more about supporting friends or pride of ownership. I’m under no believe that something will sound better or worse just becasue of where it was manufactured so long as design and QC are behind it (e.g. branding). |
@dayglow My experience with exclusivity is different than yours. Surely brands like Focal, B&W and Sonus Faber are built in China. Boutique brands like Tekton assemble in the US but use off-the-shelf drivers from China (probably). In France there are several driver manufacturers like EMS, Audax, Supravox and Davis Acoustics. However, it's murky whether the drivers or finished speakers are built in France or not. The lower end stuff is 100% likely to be made in China. This is why I blindly bought the OGY: - The drivers are EMS LB5 (fullrange). EMS is a tiny driver manufacturer. An old couple runs the company. Everything is assembled by hand and the price reflects that. The EMS LB5 driver sells for 300€/unit. - The enclosure is a wavy transmission line built from glued layers of laser-cut plywood. No other speakers will have the same construction. The outter box is corian. Most other manufacturers just use MDF and cover it with glossy paint/vinyl/veneer. The backside of the speakers has an embossed logo in the corian which is a nice touch. It's clear that the speakers were difficult to assemble. - It is clear that the builder did everything he could to maximize the potential of the EMS LB5 driver. That takes some guts. Conventional wisdom says that fullrange drivers suck. So maybe I get your point in a sense that: - Just spend $30 on a tweeter/woofer combo shipped from China. Design a crossover and a ported box around that and you'll get something good. Every manufacturer is doing that with speakers from $600 to $3000. Every speaker model performs similarly across all brands with minor differences in the tuning and cabinets. - Maybe there's just one way to design and build a bookshelf speaker (and other inferior ways). We figured that out over 50 years ago. There's little room for innovation. Speakers are about as exclusive as electric kettles. The trial and error part of the discussion is interesting. A live show wouldn't demonstrate trial and error because the environment is unlikely (stage) and the experience with the products is limited in time. Perhaps this is an invitation to purchase/sell/swap/lend/borrow equipment with other audiophiles? The idea here is to experience many gear in your own space without spending mountains of cash.
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The point I failed to make is with a shootout how many amps/cables/sources are on hand to get the full potential out of each speaker. With this type of test nothing can be proven its more about entertainment. Yes, it's a starting point but the truth is this is a very time consuming and frustrating hobby that takes many years of trial and error. Yes, even budget speakers have a different sound signature even if they share parts and are assembled in the same factory. My point was there is less exclusivity from brand to brand then being advertised. |
@dayglow Even budget speakers from big box stores don't sound alike. The Klipsch RP600M sound very different to the Q Acoustics 3030. For over 1000€, I expect my bookshelf speakers to be made in France or somewhere in Europe. The OGY are built in Poland for example. |
The event was yesterday and a great success. If you visit the www.azavclub.com website you will see the speakers we had there. Some were made in Asia but many were not…ATC, Falcon Acoustics, Tekton Design, Speakerlab, Philharmonic, Sonus Faber, Buchardt off the top of my head. BTW, the event was not a shootout, it was an exposition so folks could hear many different speakers that were not easy to demo in the Phoenix metro. We even had a number of folks come from out of state to partake :) |
I'm trying to get a hold of the Reynaud Bliss Jubileé to try (I've contacted Bob Neill), but I am interested in checking out the Fyne 500SP. Anyone here with actual experience with them?
My amplification is the Pathos Classic Remix (70wpc/8 ohms), a tube hybrid. I'll be replacing my Castle Eden speakers (which have a beguiling midrange).
I have been hoping to even find another working pair of the Edens, or find one with perhaps damaged tweeters but the woofers are fine. |
@chorus , I’d be really curious how the CSS Criton 1TD-X speaker kit would stack up. They’ve been getting a few pretty good reviews. You could do the fully upgraded kit with a baltic birch flat pack for $1400. It looks like a beginner can easily assemble everything in a few hours. |
actually 4, including my "garage" speakers #1 my 25 year old Celestion 5s #2 my 20 year old Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble III #3 Dynaudio Evoke 10 (new) #4 Totem Sky (new)
these were all somewhat or significantly cheaper than the LSAs and they were all way more musical and forward than the LSA. I couldn't believe how dull they were. |
-We do need a Revel- Good suggestion, thanks.
-Taking the Fyne 500 off the list. Just reviewed in Stereophile and it did not do so well. Comments?
- I like the Falcon Sound too but they refused to supply a sample. Only refusal so far but there are plenty of others available.
-Which makers are using the Purifi drivers? I have heard good things there too and would definitely want one for the event.
-Re the Decware tube tot- Thanks! I am open to improvements!
-The LSA Statement 10 is in!
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I had them for 2 months, bought them new. I listened to them for weeks, side by side with 3 other speakers, same price category. They lacked the imaging, character, the dullest speakers I ever had. The real bad sign was: I went to 3 dealers to trade them in, no one would bite, they said: "no one knows these, no on wants these" I tried to sell it here and on usaudiomart for HALF of what I paid for it, it took 2 months to get 2 low ball offers. On top of that, they were full of scratches when I received them. I spent $200 with a furniture maker to fix them.
It was an absolutely painful experience, and listening to them was no joy either
And I tried to do my homework: I contacted 3 reviewers to get feedback, None of them responded to me. So those reviews are suspicious to me, especially with what I heard. |
Just bought the LSA 10 Statements. They have been in my system for a couple of days and can't imagine anyone telling others to avoid these speakers. They sound wonderful so far and they are not even close to being broken in. Much more dynamic than the maggie .7's that I was using prior to these. Bass is incredible. I have 2 rythmik f-12 subs and mostly have them turned off so far, the LSA's do go very low and deep. |
I’ve owned many stand mount speakers including Harbeth, Spendor, Kef, etc,. This Falcon IMF-100 is my new favorite! https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/imf-100-completeathome-loudspeaker-system.html
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Some late additions- Monitor Audio Gold 100s Paradigm KEF R3s Elac Velas to replace Unifis if under $3,000 MSRP. We use a db meter to equalize volume. The reason for the event is to give a chance to as many people who want to come have a listen, We may do an Open Baffle, Electrostat /Planer, actives event at another time. Perhaps your club should do that one? Many people do not have the space dipoles require.
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