Streaming Sound Quality - Want the very best sound quality? Network Acoustics ENO...

It is amazing how the Salon 2 still having so many fans despite "old tech" they must be one heck of a speaker. I myself never heard em, but I do know tge Muon Pro and Tempus is fire, pronounced fiyah as it's extra hot.

Revel Salon 2 speakers?  Wise choice!  The Revel Salon 2 speakers are just absolutely incredible speakers!!! 

@hchilcoat

I have the same Deja Vu server with the same JCAT NET CARD XE.

I own both the eno and the muon (non PRO model) and both of those filters work fine with my server, coming out of a Silent Angel Bonn N8 Ethernet Switch. However, my internet service is only 200 mbs. Is your 1Gb/s Ethernet cable coming out of a switch that does not accommodate 100 mbs? I did have the same issue as you when I was running fiber through 1,000 mbs convertors and per Rich Truss at Network Acoustics, I had to purchase convertors that maxed out at 100 mbs. I did that and it then worked fine. I now run Ethernet directly from my router into the Bonn N8 switch and then into the muon. Based on the amber color of the light on the switch, it is only operating at 100 mbs into the muon, but it works and sounds just fine.  I wish they would just stop coming out with new stuff for us to purchase.

@lalitk Thank you. I look forward to the two-fer of having more convenience and improved sound!

@hchilcoat 

Muon Pro has been designed to work with streamer that requires 1Gb/s Ethernet connection speed. Your JCAT Net XE is seeing ENO as bottleneck hence the connection/speed issues. There are few here who experienced the same issue as you and switching to Muon Pro not only got rid of the problem but also further enhanced the performance. 

I've been using the ENO system running from an ethernet switch into my Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, which has JCAT Net XE and USB XE cards. When I reboot my Deja Vu with the ENO system connecting between the switch and the Deja Vu I don't get an ethernet connection, so no Roon, no streaming. If I reboot with the CAT 8 ethernet cable from my router (1000 mbs service) plugged directly into the Deja Vu, it reboots fine with ethernet connection. I then have to remove that cable from the Deja Vu and plut it into my switch and then hook up the ENO system (from switch to Deja Vu server and all is good (seems like once the ethernet connection to the Deja VU is opened up Ican change ethernet connections back and forth with no problem). I assume this issue is because the JCAT NET XE wants a 1000 mps connection when rebooting rather than the 100 mps connection of the ENO. At some point in the near future I hope to upgrade to the Muon Pro and I think that will resolve the problem.

Have others had the same issue and did the Muon Pro resolve it?

Hi @markush !

Yes, just in front of the Lumin.  Ken

Thank you @fastfreight !

My LUMIN is capable of 1GB/s Ethernet so the MUON Pro should be a nice improvement. Though the EtherRegen just hast 100 Mbit/s so is it recommended to no longer use the EtherRegen (putting the Muon Pro just between ISP modem and the LUMIN)?

These Network Acoustics filters and cables are really the real deal. NA is much better known today compared to when they started just a couple of years ago!

I started with their ENO, moved up the Muon and will soon go Pro! Every move up the line has proven to be sonically worthwhile. Happy to see so many happy owners. 

@markush :  from the thread entitled "Best Server To Run Roon Core"

fastfreight

386 posts

01-26-2023 at 10:31pm 

Hello!   I now have my Muon Pro Streaming System (which means includes the second cable, which is by the way distinct for the Pro version). 

Recall I have Gateway 1100 Verizon Modem > JCAT M12 gold cable > M12 Gold Switch w/ Jcat Optimo 3 power supply > M12 Cable > Nucleus +

                                                             >M12 Cable > JCAT Net Isolator (coupler) >

Supra Cat 8 20 M >(WITH OR WITHOUT MUON PRO FILTER SYSTEM) > Aries G2.1 Streamer w LPS > USB (K-S Realization)  > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Audionet Pre and amps.

So I tried with and without the Muon Pro directly in front of my streamer. I listened casually for a few days to run it in, then did some serious A/B switching the Muon Pro in and out.  My wife has good ears and for her it was blind as I was the wizard behind the components.

1)  I had no issues with turning the Aries on and off and changing the cables quickly, and the Aries connected immediately.  This is showing the Gigabit put through of the Muon Pro vs the bottleneck I had with the previous regular Muon.

2) The Muon Pro adds significant improvement to our ears vs the straight-in Supra cat 8.  The sound was bigger, richer, more enveloping and just plain more pleasurable.  There was no doubt to us, and it was immediate.

3) The Muon Pro is connected with another JCAT Net Isolator into the Network Acoustics Muon Pro cables, One is hardwired out of the Muon Filter; the other is the second Muon Pro Network cable going from the Net Isolator (coupler) into the Muon filter.  My point here is that the second Muon Pro cable AND the JCAT Net Isolator could be helping.  Certainly Rich at NA says the second Muon Pro cable is important.  An interesting test would be to simply use the Net Isolator and one Muon Pro cable (leaving the Filter out) and see if they help by themselves.  This is only academic to me, as I love the sound of the Muon Pro Filter.

4) I can soon test the original Muon Filter against the Muon Pro  in my Mola Mola Makua system.  The embedded streamer is less sensitive to the 1G requirement, and works flawlessly with the original Muon.

 Report this

4,308 posts

01-27-2023 at 07:52pm 

@fastfreight

Thanks for sharing your impressions. I am glad to hear you’re loving the Muon Pro, the praises are unanimous so far with streamers that are designed for 1Gb/s Ethernet. I find it quite interesting Muon Pro’s impact ahead of M12 switch which is pretty phenomenal on its own. I wonder if the long run of Supra CAT 8 is somewhat diminishing M12 efficacy over such long distance from Aries. An interesting test would be to remove M12 from the equation and listen to Aries with Muon Pro to access if you miss M12 performance.

I have been eyeing upcoming Telegartner’s OPT BRIDGE 1000M, according to Marcin (JCAT) using OPT BRIDGE ahead of M12 adds clarity, improves articulation while making the sound more analogue. He was skeptical given the price of BRIDGE powered by OPTIMO 3 DUO but the improvement

fastfreight

386 posts

01-31-2023 at 09:57pm 

Hello,  tonight I was able to do a head to head comparison of the original Muon Filter System and the new Muon Pro filter System.  Using my Mola Mola Makua  (the Makua is an amazing pre-amp with optional onboard Tambaqui DAC and Streamer), Audionet Max amps, Revel Salon 2 speakers and REL subs, I was able to easily swap in and out the Muon and Muon Pro.  My Makua (unlike my Aries G 2.1) easily accepts ethernet through either the Muon (100Mb/s) or the new Pro version (1G/s).

I listened each way for over and hour, then, formulating a clear opinion, I switched in and out for specific tracks. I was able to hear the difference each time within seconds.  The Pro is more engaging, more immersive, richer, tonally more pleasing, more relaxing, yet still just as resolving and tingly. I used Liberty; Alison Krauss and Union Station, It Doesn't Matter; Mark Knopfler, The Scaffolder's Wife; Old Genesis, and Chris Botte, Summertime.  The soundstage on Summertime is sky high with the Pro!

 I would like to experiment with placement of the M12 switch.  I do suspect it would sound best in front of ONE of my streamers.  But I need the switch where it is - between my Modem, Server and both Streamers.  Moving it around requires unhooking lots of things (specific M12 Telegartner cables), inserting an inferior switch etc.  Perhaps I will get to this.  Or perhaps I will order a Grimm MU1! 😜

@fastfreight I tried but somehow didn’t find it. Can you copy the URL/Link?

Today I ran a 100’ Cat 7 ethernet cable from my new LHY SW-8 Network Switch to my Apple TV box on the other side of the house.  The Apple TV box was using Wi-Fi.  With the wired connection the TV picture improved.  I don’t hear a difference in the HT system.  Now I have to figure a way to get the cable across the house in the walls.  The improvement in the picture is not huge but enough that I am going to find a way to route the cable.  It means I must crawl under the house.  Hard on my knees.

The SW-8 is connected to the Wi-Fi router via an optical link (2 FMC’s with linear power supplies.)

Hello @markush , search Muon Pro for my findings!

@grannyring Thank you for your feedback. 
Has anyone already experienced / compared the new MUON Pro?

Thanks @lalitk, I'm a fan of iFi Power so I will likely stick with them for the time being.

I've just wired in the EE 8Swtich. I really didn't want this to be better, even a notch.

But, I'll be keeping it. The only word I have is 'phenomenal'.

I'm not going to bother putting the FMC's back into the chain as this sounds wonderful right now.

For interest I'm going Router, Audioquest Pearl Cat6, EE 8Switch, included Chord C-Stream Cable to Zen Stream.

I will have to try out the ENO next I guess, and no doubt different power and Ethernet cables too! :)

“Do you have any particular LPS's in mind to recommend that can power the Stream and DAC?”

@jabbaman 

I have used iFi and JCAT LPS. The are so many other brands, I suggest that you start a new thread on LPS recommendations if you prefer not to weed through threads here :-) Please be sure to state your budget and voltage specs of Zen combo. I would pick a LPS manufacturer that doesn’t cheap out on DC cables. The quality of DC cables matters too! 

@lalitk, thank you for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.

I'm sure I'll keep the Zen stack for at least six months, probably longer. Do you have any particular LPS's in mind to recommend that can power the Stream and DAC?

I'm aware that power supplies are a whole different rabbit hole of potentially infinite tweaking!

As an experiment today I have taken Ethernet out of the equation entirely and enabled Wi-Fi on the Zen Stream. I do have a fairly good Wi-Fi setup in the house and it's usually performant and reliable. What I have noticed is that the sound quality is absolutely flawless, the bass is strong, the vocals are clear and well-defined, the sound stage is wide and the silent moments on acoustic tracks are completely silent. I'm now wondering whether this might be the way to go as Wi-Fi itself has no interference. I could potentially further upgrade the Wi-Fi mesh and feed it properly with good power and who knows?

@jabbaman 

Welcome back to the pursuit of great audio. IMO, you have a decent streaming setup with iFI Zen combo. My question is what is your time line in terms of upgrading the streamer and DAC? If you planning to keep the Zen combo for a while, then i would replace the wall warts power supply (SMPS) on both to a LPS (linear power supply).  You can get a very nice LPS that can power both Zen’s. This is where you get the most bang for your buck and improvements in SQ. 

As far as upgrading the Ethernet signal path, It’s a hot mess. So many ways you can tweak the signal chain. My advise, keep on experimenting and find that sweet spot. I believe in ‘less is more’ in the Ethernet path. The EE8 on the way, experiment with and without the FMC. My experience with FMC’s is not great so I recommend trying ENO passive filter at some point in-between your EE8 and Zen stream. 

Have fun and share your findings! 

Hi All,

Great thread, it's rare for me to read every post! There are very few "it's all just 1's and 0's" comments too.

Whilst I've never left music I have had a long hiatus from hi-fi but I'm now back and building up a pure digital system. I'm deliberately working at the budget end of the scale to see what's possible in terms of sound quality however I'm happy to add and remove components over time in pursuit of great sound (for me).

My setup is pretty simple and basic compared to all of you guys:

5G (Mobile) Router

certified cat 6a to TP-Link Switch

AudioQuest Cat6 Pearl to 10Gtek FMC

10Gtek Fibre to 10Gtek FMC

AudioQuest Cat6 Pearl to ifi Zen Stream (12v ifi iPower 2 SMPS)

WireWorld Chroma 8 USB to ifi Zen DAC v2 (5v ifi iPower X SMPS)

I also have a pair of ifi AC iPurifiers in the power strip.

Everything sounds pretty good, but I can tell there is more to be had here. I have over 30 years in a wide variety of IT roles but I'm not in the "it's just 1's and 0's" camp where audio is concerned.

With my "budget" hat on I have ordered a reasonably discounted EE 8Switch that I intend to place between the second FMC and the Streamer. I've also got a couple of other iPower X's on order one of which will grace the Router and my Zen Can.

My first (of many questions) for the experts here is: my Router has a spare switch port - should I plug the first FMC directly into this, or leave it in the TP-Link (along with the "rest of the house network")?

Secondly, what's the consensus on the FMC's - shall I leave them in the path or remove them? (I'm happy to experiment of course).

I've got my eye on various other upgrades but at some point, the dollars/pounds will be spent on the streamer or DAC rather than cables and digital magic boxes.

Other than this, thanks for a great post!

Just got a response from Rich. What a nice and classy guy!

See below. So I will configure the switch to make the ENO work with Melco for the time being, and will definitely order a Muon in the near future.

"I’m sorry to hear you’re having trouble with the ENO filter working directly between your switch and the Melco. I’ve had a look at Melco’s website and it describes that particular device as a 1Gb/s Ethernet connection. If the Melco server won’t ‘auto negotiate’ down to 100Mb/s then the ENO won’t work as it is a 100Mb/s device.

The reason it works between your router and your switch is that those devices will work at 100Mb/s.

If their is a dedicated 100Mb/s port on your switch, try using that to the Melco, or if your switch is a ‘managed switch’ you could configure a port to be fixed at 100Mb/s.

If it makes a worthwhile sound improvement in between the router and switch, then that’s where to use it, but if you wish to return it, then of course you can do that.

We do have one product that works at 1Gb/s, which would work in your situation and it’s a much better sounding filter, the Muon Pro filter, it’s not yet on our website but we can supply it. It is a bit more expensive though at £1495

I hope that helps?

Best regards,

Rich Trussell"

Network Acoustics

Thanks @lalitk, @yoby and @grannyring. I just sent an inquiry to Network Acoustics. Shall see what they have to say. I also read in another forum that adding a 100mps switch in front of ENO should help. Since the switch I have is a managed one, Buffalo BS-GS2008, maybe I can adjust speed for the connected port down to 100mps, hope that would work.

The Muon filter is compatible as I understand and I would confirm with Rich. 

@lalitk : Agreed. Rich is very responsive and helpful.

@liangx5 

The Melco S100 switch has 4 ports rated at 100MbE speeds and 4 ports rated at 1GbE. As far ENO goes, I suggest that reach out to Rich at Network Acoustics about compatibility issues with N1Z. Hope you get this sorted out soon! 
 

Thanks @lalitk for your reply.

Too bad that I cannot use ENO with Melco N1Z directly. I don't know putting it before the switch would be just as effective. Speaking of switch, doesn't Melco also sell a switch with 100mb/s ports just for audio applications? If that works with N1Z, then the ENO should also? Anyways, I ordered a RJ45 coupler so I can try using another short cable between ENO and the streaming device, see if that works...

@testrun I've been curious about this exact comparison for some time. Presently have Opticalrendu powered by Uptone JS2, have OpticalModule on order (supposed to ship in July) to replace generic FMC powered by lps  I will have NA Muon in house sometime in August. At present, using two generic FMC both powered by lps in front of server, optical after. Not exactly happy with the two FMC prior to server, Muon will substitute.

I’m a fan of Andrew Gillis, Small Green Computer, and his hardware and fiber solution.  Has anyone compared SGC components to the components mentioned above? 

@liangx5 

ENO filter designed to operate and compatible with 100Mb/s speed whereas your N1Z h/2 appears to be compatible with devices that support 1Gb/s (Gigabit Ethernet only). I had the same issue (no signal) with ENO when plugged directly into Merging +player that only supports devices 1Gb/s bitrate. 

I am having trouble using ENO with Melco N1Z h/2. When I connect the ENO filter directly to Melco, there is no signal, network light not flashing. Changing cable from switch to ENO doesn't help. If I insert the ENO filter between router and switch, it works fine. Looks like the RJ45 connector of the ENO filter doesn't work when plugging into Melco directly. I wonder if any Melco N1 owner here is having the same issue? 

My point is that consumer level cd players distort, pretty sure that Qobuz has direct streaming access from servers.

@antigrunge2, interesting point, but wouldn't that same logic apply to the source of the stream?  Surely Qobuz (for example) has to read from a disc somewhere, and their flac files must have been ripped from something.

While I zapped my Cds on an Audioaero Capitole 24/192 MK2 and not on the Zenith directly, I believe my streaming to now be superior to the SSD. I don’t believe that ripping is entirely lossless nor is direct reading from disc.

As someone recently introduced to a proper streaming setup (Orbi satellite -> Zenith Mk3 -> Hegel H390), I’ve found this thread extremely informing and will no doubt soon try both the EE and the Eno.

Regarding streaming specifically, it seemed to me that Zenith owners neglected to mention one aspect of their streamed SQ - unless it was taken for granted. Namely, is it fair to say that the SQ from flac files stored on the Zenith is the benchmark against which streamed music is compared? Clearly, any flac file read from the Zenith’s SSD will not be governed by any router or switch or ethernet cable.

and the sound ?

G,

Running digital XLR 

try the AES from the K50 to the Weiss. Some folks like it better than the USB.

@glory That is one nice serverr! Always impressed by Antipodes technology, they understand how to optimize various outputs on their servers, not many do. Also have slightly different take on power supplies.

I have the million $$$ Antipodes K50. Is there a better way to get great SQ  out of digital playback?

running Weiss 501 dac.

Sorry I missed your question @markush

I have the new Muon ethernet filter and cable and just love them. I upgraded from their ENO line which I also enjoyed as outlined in my original post as the OP of this thread.

So how does if differ from the ENO range? Quite simply the Muon reduces the noise even further and reveals more of the music’s inner detail and beauty. My system became more resolving and musical at the same time. This is a hard combo to pull off in my experience.

I have found break in is about 100 hours or so. They start off sounding a tad too smooth. They then become very open, resolving and lively. At around 100 hours they retain their great resolution, realism and liveliness but fill in with more body and fullness. My system is more engaging than with the ENO. More details such as plucked strings, decay, and venue space become part of the experience. Improved realism and life over the ENO. It makes me want to turn up the volume and enjoy the effortless presentation. Just a wonderful upgrade.

Hope this helps!

Anyone got to test the Muon?

@rareace 

Thanks, that’s exactly what I had in my mind.

@lalitk My router

@rareace 

It appears you’re also using a Entreq ground box, may I know what component is connected to Entreq? 

I also placed a Perfect Path E-Card on the ENO and it made a nice improvement.

-Alex

I have the Eno streaming system and the latest version of the USB cable in my system playing 24x7 for few days, I think about 150 hrs. Initially I put all of them together as I didn't want to burn them separately and waste time.

Its probably too early to tell but listening in between the burning period, I felt there are lots of up and down - initially I liked what it did but after couple of hrs of playing time, I just couldn't bear it. So far after 100hrs, it looks like they are settling down and I am liking what I am hearing so far. I can't tell which one effected the most. I don't know if it will change further but after 200 hrs (which I hope is sufficient ?) I plan to put one at a time and evaluate.

As far as I am aware, the Gigafoil scales well with better power supply. So if you have one handy, try it. I think keeping the Gigafoil as close to the music server makes most sense but you never know if a different topology sounds better unless you try it.

@mitch2 I have my Gigafoil right after my router and before the ENO. It improved with a better LPS and I couldn’t take it out of my system. Great combo!
-Alex

Reevaluating my general philosophy that less is usually better, at least when it comes to digital stuff.  The Gigafoil arrived so my digital chain is now, 

• Comcast cable
• ARRIS SURFboard Modem
• Netgear switch
• Orbi Mesh Router into switch
• FMC converter into switch
• 45 feet of fiber from FMC
• FMC converter at receiving end
• Bonn N8 switch
• Gigafoil into switch
• Network Acoustics Streaming cable
• Network Acoustics ENO
• Mojo DejaVu Server

With the exact same configuration, except without the Gigafoil, my system was sounding really good.  The sound changed when I added the Gigafoil.  An interesting change, maybe a bit more incisive.  It still sounds very good but I need to listen more before making any better/worse judgements.  I will probably move some power supplies around in order to have the best PS (HD Plex) just before the ENO.  I may also move the Gigafoil and was wondering if just before the first converter on the upstream side may be a good spot.  I sure have enough stuff now, so just a matter of moving it around to achieve the best sound.